[–]▶ 58b551 (1) No.13886>>13890 >>13895 >>13899 >>13901 >>13924 >>14577 >>16977 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Voyager's premise was pretty cool, despite the show itself being what it was. What would it have taken for you to call Voyager your favorite Star Trek series?
▶ 7cfd8e (1) No.13888>>13933 >>13986 >>14611 >>14692
Wild West in space. Delta Quadrant should have been a lawless frontier with the Voyager being sort of a Marshal bringing a semblance of order. In fact the whole survival arc could have been done by the Voyager crew trading for supplies by offering themselves as Bounty Hunters tracking down outlaws building up trust with the locals and slowly forming a mini-Federation as it were.
Enterprise to an extent did this with Archer building bridges with species that were at each other's throats and slowly building the foundation for the Federation. If they had done more of that the show would have been better and not cancelled.
▶ f068ff (3) No.13890>>13986 >>15536
>>13886 (OP)
>More moral ambiguity, as the crew has no choice but to sacrifice their starfleet ways for the sake of survival
>Have them take a fucking side for once in their lives instead of trying to stay out of every conflict until they had no choice. The Kazon were retarded dickbags who stole everything they had, not a morally gray faction that had it's own valid perspective
>Toss out Janeway's retroactive sense of guilt for stranding her crew in the delta quadrant that only showed up towards the end of the series (she knew exactly what she was doing, then later decides that the potential 70+ year trip home was going to be too long)
>Toss out most of the plots that revolve around aliens being pissed off that Voyager was flying through their territory, which wasn't marked in any way.
>You can't have Janeway be worried about people dying, but willing to investigate every stray sensor reading or cosmic phenomenon.
>Would have been neat if they recruited more crew members along the way or picked up another ship or two.
>A better ending that didn't just resolve everything in the last 2 minutes
▶ 902666 (1) No.13892>>13986
too much to list. it's premise is wasted on a show that isn't serialized, to be honest, so i guess it should have come much later, and on cable which probably would have meant different cast and production staff. I would have folded the ship and it's premise into a larger, serialized story for a cable series centered-around the TNG crew but featuring new recurring ships, crews, locations including DS9 possibly as well. I would have made it a big, epic, sprawling series (in part to delude the TNG elements since the actors would be expensive but also to tie-up canon and set-up the next series featuring the Enterprise).
But with Voyager it was pretty obvious from the beginning that they really wanted a budget TNG continuation but couldn't relaunch the Enterprise with the TNG movies going on. In the end it was all bad timing. They may have had no idea how popular serialized cable shows were about to become and they ended-up exhausting the franchise right as that was about to pop.
▶ baef04 (8) No.13895
>>13886 (OP)
Nothing. I already do. Its late night replays on Spike back in 08/09 got me into Star Trek. And despite the order to make the characters more wooden, I still find it the most relatable Star Trek in terms of the people and their interactions.
On the otherhand, I can't actually finish the pilot episode of TNG, and can't really enjoy most of the TNG series. Other than that? Like, an actual response?
Start with the first episode, 2nd part. Instead of Janeway ordering the array destroyed and the Ocampans(….and fix that entire fucking shit….) saved because "Imma wimminz folk", have some mention to ships being tracked inbound, no precise number, only a vague but firm mention of reinforcements, some arriving on the spot and some that would be arriving within hours. Have the reason Janeway stays there be THE legitimate one, that she didn't know how long exactly reconfiguring the technology to work for them would take versus fighting off the enemies and having no diea how many reinforcements were inbound.
And for fucks sake, stick to your guns, I am so fucking tired of hearing Chuck and other bitch about the shows inconsistencies only to use them in relation to the pilot.
So to start with, a minor change. Just a different motivation for blowing up the array and getting the hell out of there. Then a major change. Neelix is less useless regarding at least a few things. Keep the cheese kils the ship episode, because fuck you, thats classic Trek.
There are other things, but the intial reason for being stranded. Change it.
▶ fad844 (1) No.13899>>13932
>>13886 (OP)
All the women should have been Tuvoked
▶ 03e0c5 (1) No.13901>>13927
>>13886 (OP)
I would have liked more morally depraved decisions that created real and long term consequences but that had to be made in order to save Voyager. Also more in-depth scavenging, how they achieved these scavenges and how it affected their tech and the crews moral (both good and bad). I would also have liked more development of their personal relationships (like in DS9), I recognize that the relationship between Paris and B'Elanna was good but it needed more of these interactions throughout the crew. It would also be cool with a more pronounced Maquis resistance and maybe even a rebellion to question Janeways leadership
▶ a192d4 (2) No.13924
>>13886 (OP)
>What would it have taken for you to call Voyager your favorite Star Trek series?
Replace almost all of the characters, actors, and writers, and change the premise to something that didn't guarantee an endless parade of Giligan's Island plots and never-seen-again forehead aliens.
▶ 3cfbde (2) No.13927
>>13901
can't question janeway's leadership. she's a woman, that's literally rape.
▶ 67dc2e (1) No.13932
▶ 7d7866 (1) No.13933>>13935 >>14705
>>13888
I hate when people say the wild west like it was lawless. it was in fact safer and more courteous than the populated cities out east.
learn history people.
▶ baef04 (8) No.13935>>13937
>>13933
Yeah, a good portion of the shit advocated here is edgelord shit.
▶ 3cfbde (2) No.13937
>>13935
here, or the internet in general.
:(
▶ 83e623 (1) No.13946
all they had to do was to keep the borg as creepy hivemind murder machines
they had one job and they fucked it up
▶ 3bffa2 (7) No.13960>>13966
Take what was good about BSG, but dial back the sex, the angst, and that whole religious theme (those things worked to varying degrees in that show, but that's not Star Trek). Essentially make a far more desperate feeling version of what we got. Resources run low, characters crack under pressure, when the ship sustains damage it causes real lasting problems.
▶ 8cc20b (2) No.13966>>13968 >>13969 >>14579
>>13960
That episode was called "year of hell".
It would have been nice to see some of the potential not get pissed away before the second episode of the series. The Maquis should not have been in starfleet uniforms nor acted like starfleet officers. This could have given a second viewpoint on the various quandaries of the week instead of always doing shit the starfleet way. They did do this, but only on rare occasions.
There's the infinite torpedo and shuttle supply too. This could have been a great way to establish some continuity, if they had to stop to buy some kind of replacements for lost shuttles or have given the engineers the occasional episode about juryrigging some new weapons they found in another episode to replace one they can get spareparts or ammo for any more.
Instead of the ship instantly being repaired to full working order after every random fight, spend an episode or two on how they repair it and have it show on the CGI model. It should slowly end up looking like a patchwork of, well, patches and temporary repairs.
This kind of shit goes for the crew too. Not just the marquis, but the rest of them too. Instead of tightly reinforcing starfleet regulations, have the crew find their own ways of doing things that make it easier for them, abandon stuff like uniforms slowly for something more pragmatic. Show them adapting to life away from the support of the rest of the fleet in other words.
The "Hazard Team" from the games would have been great for this.
And of course, no "the holodeck if broken again" and "time travel, again" episodes.
And they should have kicked neelix out of an airlock for half the crap he tried to pull.
An interesting twist could have been having some other ships along. I recall reading a fanfic about an alternate reality where a Cardassian cruiser was pulled along with the voyager, which opens up a lot of new dynamics and alien viewpoints to a lot of the dilemmas the crew faces.
▶ 3bffa2 (7) No.13968
>>13966
The fact that they don't really go anywhere with the whole Maquis situation might be the most wasted potential thing about the show.
I also love the idea of Voyager gradually transforming into a Frankenstein ship patched up with all kinds of strange alien technology.
▶ a192d4 (2) No.13969>>13978
>>13966
>The Maquis should not have been in starfleet uniforms nor acted like starfleet officers.
But they're all idealistic ex-starfleet officers and their grievances with the Feds were totally irrelevant under the circumstances.
▶ 3bffa2 (7) No.13971>>14077 >>14099
It occurs to me that DS9 was a way better Voyager than Voyager. You've got a cast made up of people who don't always see eye to eye. Starfleet ideals being put to the test. Storylines like Nog losing his leg and going through his whole agoraphobia episode..
▶ 8cc20b (2) No.13978>>14077
>>13969
Not all of them, but more importantly, it would help show the viewers the differences between Starfleet officers who follow starfleet regulations and Maquis, who are terrorists pragmatic guerilla fighters who are used to improvising solutions and adapting to their circumstances because they don't have all of starfleet's logistical infrastructure to help supply them.
It would help reinforce in the viewers minds that these two groups are not the same. Instead we got the "the maquis are the ones that don't have rank pips on their collar" bullshit that barely anyone would even notice.
▶ 80ed67 (2) No.13981>>13982 >>14045 >>14100
Instead of a pure go home plot
The Q having decided that Federation/Humans have earned their place amongst the stars need to know if they practice what they preach, the whole peace, love, and cooperation faggotry, the Q exile Voyager in the Delta Quadrant to unite its disparate races into one to prove it.
Or a native Q-let knowing or having heard through the grapevine of the Federation just grabs a ship to give the quadrant some pozzed loads
No 'will they get home' episodes because the Q forbid it
All the aliens of the week/season you want
It doesn't have to be a carbon copy of the Federation it could be like the leagues of Ancient Greece or the Holy Roman Empire
The 'unite the races' plot doesn't need to be overbearing and omnipresent just a bit more prominent version of the Worf and the Klingons shit in TNG
Not every encounter alien has to join
Over the season(s) have the easing Maquis vs Starfleet tensions represent the growing League
Deal with reactionary counter leagues formed by rivals of current league members
Have the Borg be a threat by giving the League a Wolf 359, Voyager now has to try and convince the other hesitant powers to come together and defeat the Borg cube/pyramid/dodecahedron
As the Borg ship explodes the League becomes a true Federation and Voyager having proved the Federations ideals get sent home by the Q
▶ e280ba (1) No.13982
>>13981
This would have been fucking great.
▶ baef04 (8) No.13986>>13987 >>13991 >>14113
>>13888
>Delta Quadrant should have been a lawless frontier
It basically was.
> In fact the whole survival arc could have been done by the Voyager crew trading for supplies by offering themselves as Bounty Hunters tracking down outlaws building up trust with the locals and slowly forming a mini-Federation as it were.
And so begins the long list of reasons why fans LIKE YOU should not have say in anything.
>If they had done more of that the show would have been better and not cancelled
Voy wasn't canceled. It finished its run.
>>13890
>>13890
>>More moral ambiguity, as the crew has no choice but to sacrifice their starfleet ways for the sake of survival
And here comes the edgelord shit. Look man, there is only so far this concept could go anyways, and it would have to be done in certain ways, ways that edgelords like yourself, would completely fuck up
>>Have them take a fucking side for once in their lives instead of trying to stay out of every conflict until they had no choice. The Kazon were retarded dickbags who stole everything they had, not a morally gray faction that had it's own valid perspective
See, this is what I mean, what in the actual fuck are you arguing for? Why should they get involved?
The main thing that bugs me regarding the conflicts, is that there should have been new ones and new maps needed every damned time they went through a wormhole. That one episode where Neelix was doing shady shit to acquire a map was pretty good. My only argument is that it wou dhave been better for it to go off without a dumb hitch.
>>Toss out Janeway's retroactive sense of guilt for stranding her crew in the delta quadrant that only showed up towards the end of the series (she knew exactly what she was doing, then later decides that the potential 70+ year trip home was going to be too long)
Agreed. Sort of.
>>Toss out most of the plots that revolve around aliens being pissed off that Voyager was flying through their territory, which wasn't marked in any way.
…nah, fuck you, how the fuck are they supposed to mark the insane vastness of space.
>>You can't have Janeway be worried about people dying, but willing to investigate every stray sensor reading or cosmic phenomenon
Given that they occasionally just ram into the motherfucekrs every so often, and how dangerous shit like that has been shown to be ever since TOS, a standing order to investigate shit makes complete sense.
>>Would have been neat if they recruited more crew members along the way or picked up another ship or two
Yeah. Running into a Cardassian ship would have been nice.
>>13892
>it's premise is wasted on a show that isn't serialized,
Britbong detected, opinion discarded
▶ 3bffa2 (7) No.13987>>14096
>>13986
It's spelt serialised in British, m8.
▶ f068ff (3) No.13991>>14097
>>13986
Nice spacing faggot. Lay off the enter key.
>And here comes the edgelord shit. Look man, there is only so far this concept could go anyways, and it would have to be done in certain ways, ways that edgelords like yourself, would completely fuck up
Either they are on a leisurely cruise through unknown territory, or they are in dire straits and need to survive at all costs to get home. You can't have it both ways.
>See, this is what I mean, what in the actual fuck are you arguing for? Why should they get involved?
The Kazon were already trying to kill them and steal their ship constantly. Instead of teleporting a photon torpedo onto their bridge, they proceeded to get chased by them for several seasons, in between dealing with Seska, an insane woman who wanted to kill them all for the sake of getting them home. And what does Janeway do? She tries to bargain with them, forge alliances, but she also doesn't want to help them or interfere with their local squabbles, because.. something something balance of power.
>…nah, fuck you, how the fuck are they supposed to mark the insane vastness of space.
Exactly. How the fuck do they intend to uphold the sanctity of their precious territory with no way to know if anyone is even in it until days or weeks after they've already shown up. It's a bullshit plot device that got overused.
>Given that they occasionally just ram into the motherfucekrs every so often, and how dangerous shit like that has been shown to be ever since TOS, a standing order to investigate shit makes complete sense.
When the anomalies run into them, it's a different matter.. But when they keep going off course and delaying their trip because Janeway is mildly curious about a distress signal or a bit of debris, it makes less sense.. Because they make a point to harp on the same few themes constantly: Gotta get home at all costs. Can't interfere with local squabbles. Prime Directive. Etc.
At the end of the day, all I really wanted was some fucking consistency. Set some hard boundaries. Establish the stakes. Stick to that shit and do your damndest to tell a story within that framework, instead of recycling plots that TNG and DS9 did better.
▶ 9e5779 (4) No.14045>>14071
>>13981
It seems completely contrived that just the Voyager crew alone could have created an entirely new Federation, powerful enough to oppose the Borg, all by themselves, in 5-7 years.
▶ 80ed67 (2) No.14071
>>14045
Data tricked the Wolf 359 Cube into self-destructing. Instead of just repeating the exact same trick find some way of lowering the cubes defenses or overloading its weapons so it can't fire constantly so a 100+ ships could take it on with severe losses
▶ ca5918 (1) No.14077>>14793
>>13978
>Not all of them, but more importantly, it would help show the viewers the differences between Starfleet officers who follow starfleet regulations and Maquis,
The thing is that there really isn't such a big difference. It's not like the maquis came off of a pirate ship or a pizza delivery shuttle or whatever, they're mostly/all ex-Starfleet. Nothing about the characters' personalities sets them apart as a group, they have very similar backgrounds and principles. It surprised me to learn that the writers introduced the maquis specifically so that they could be used on Voyager. It seems like such an obviously terrible idea, to have these two groups that are supposed to be at each other's throats over a land dispute on the other end of the galaxy. Any new viewer would need a whole power point presentation just to understand what a maquis is and why they're not supposed to like Feds. It's no surprise the whole thing got dropped.
>>13971
>It occurs to me that DS9 was a way better Voyager than Voyager. You've got a cast made up of people who don't always see eye to eye.
This is a good observation. Why would Captain Janeway and Chief Firewater ever have the kinds of conflicts that Sisko, Odo, Kira, Quark etc got into? They didn't properly set that up, not even in the pilot really.
▶ baef04 (8) No.14096
>>13987
>It's spelt serialized in British, m8
Enjoying Muhammad's cock tonight?
▶ baef04 (8) No.14097>>14160
>>13991
>Either they are on a leisurely cruise through unknown territory, or they are in dire straits and need to survive at all costs to get home. You can't have it both ways
Yep. Edgelord confirmed. Let's see.
>>13991
>Exactly. How the fuck do they intend to uphold the sanctity of their precious territory with no way to know if anyone is even in it until days or weeks after they've already shown up. It's a bullshit plot device that got overused.
Oh yes, the massive logical inconsistencies.
>>13991
>At the end of the day, all I really wanted was some fucking consistency. Set some hard boundaries. Establish the stakes
And of course the "common element of agreement", attempting to lure people to your side with something most people can agree on regarding any damned thing. Thanks for filters.
Now. Fuck. Off.
▶ baef04 (8) No.14099>>14210 >>14244
So yeah, Chuck's Dickriders are out in force
>>13971
>It occurs to me that DS9 was a way better Voyager than Voyager
Let's see. One is about about a ship and crew that is enitrely alone and unsupported and must make do with what they have, while constantyly dealing with the ever present fact that they have no back up, nor friends, or allies. They are alone, and do not have the weight of the Federation behind every word they speak. They only have the stick that is their ship and its armaments. Yes, Janeway should have been, slightly, just slightly, more ruthless, making a speech about the realities of being alone with no possible reinforcement and having to make it purely on reputation, like for example, nuking the fuck out of the pirate enclave with a Thieve's Market….but fuck the edgelords in this thread.
Meanwhile, you have a guy hunkering down on a fucking battlestation, with at first, only an entire fucking fleet within shouting distance, and then eventualy, three entire fucking fleets, all the while having the very close attention and support of several Interstellar Great Powers, and acting with the weight of such.
Put Sisko in the same situaton as Janeway, and he breaks down within a season.
Put Janeway in Sisko's place, and she has it even easier than he did.
▶ baef04 (8) No.14100
▶ ca36d9 (1) No.14113>>14199 >>14231 >>16704
>>13986
I bet you hated Firefly.
▶ f068ff (3) No.14160>>14792
>>14097
Are you even trying to argue a rational point, or are you just pretending to be retarded?
▶ e7b995 (3) No.14199>>14578
>>14113
Not him, but Firefly was total garbage.
▶ 3bffa2 (7) No.14210>>14229 >>14231 >>16705
>>14099
That's the premise of each show, sure. But in execution, DS9 put the Federation to the test a lot more than Voyager did. There were no regular characters in Voyager who were not more or less entirely onboard with the Federation's world view. In DS9 you have the Federation, the Bajorans, the Cardassians, and the Ferengi all making up members of the core cast, disagreeing on all kinds of things. You see how the Federation's secular world view holds up against people who are devoutly religious. You see how the Federation's peaceful ideals hold up in times of war.
▶ 9e5779 (4) No.14229>>14231 >>16705
>>14210
You raise a very good point.
The "outsider looking in because I'm fucking stuck here; I might be on your side but I don't have to LIKE it" characters are always the best ones in whichever Trek series you're looking at. DS9 had Odo, Quark, and Garak. Voyager had the Doctor and later Seven; Neelix might have been a great character if they didn't make him such a bubbly retarded jackass.
▶ baef04 (8) No.14231>>14251
>>14113
Didn't last long enough. Also hated the interactions with Stronk Black Womyn and her ginger cuck.
>>14210
>There were no regular characters in Voyager who were not more or less entirely onboard with the Federation's world view
There comes a point in time where being a nagging drama lama is just lame, whiny assed bullshit. The writers new this, even if you and other Chucklefucks didn't and stil don't get it. >>14229
>Neelix might have been a great character if they didn't make him such a bubbly retarded jackass
Easily one of the worst parts about the show. Even scum like him generally do try to not sink the ship when they can't really leave it.
▶ f7c781 (1) No.14244
>>14099
I feel compelled to tell you you're a huge faggot
▶ 3bffa2 (7) No.14251>>14285 >>14366 >>16703
>>14231
Why even include the Marquis if the point wasn't to have a degree of tension onboard?
▶ 8177a8 (1) No.14285>>14366 >>16705
>>14251
>Why even include the Marquis
That's a really good question for Voyager. Their conflict became irrelevant once it was clear that they would not be getting home anytime soon. They don't have a fundamental disagreement with the federation, they just did not like how their home worlds were treated.
▶ f6eede (1) No.14366>>14426
>>14251
>>14285
it's supposed to make them appear more like underdogs when in fact the warship voyager is rampaging across the delta quadrant massacring the ships of technologically inferior species. how many deaths is voyager directly responsible for.
▶ ce29da (1) No.14426>>14623
>>14366
>How many deaths is Voyager responsible for
Allegedly billions especially when they stopped Species 8472.
▶ ed3a84 (4) No.14577
>>13886 (OP)
nothing like a croaky voiced dried up old humourless dyke midget bitch with no personality whatsoever as the leader character in a series about science fiction
seven of nine was the only reason to watch it, it should have been forty five minutes of her trying on different skin tight costumes. every single time
▶ ed3a84 (4) No.14578>>14580 >>14584
>>14199
Nice to see this written. I have no idea why anyone would like that utter shit.
yet all I usually see is people saying how good it is.
It seems to appeal to women with low self esteem.
▶ ed3a84 (4) No.14579>>16705
>>13966
Can't they just replicate all the parts to build them and use elements they collect in space.
▶ e7b995 (3) No.14580>>14581
>>14578
>It seems to appeal to women with low self esteem.
Who do you think pressured me into watching it?
▶ ed3a84 (4) No.14581>>14582
>>14580
Some high-brow, imaginative, self-assured and physically fit sports scientists.
▶ e7b995 (3) No.14582>>14597
>>14581
Wow, that was totally it., not some chick with massive tits and low self esteem.
▶ 3bffa2 (7) No.14584
>>14578
It was okay. Just okay. Probably a lot more interesting if you haven't seen ten of the shows it's ripping off already.
▶ b7c119 (1) No.14597
>>14582
>Wow, that was totally it., not some chick with massive tits and low self esteem.
Did you at least get into her jeffreys tubetop for your troubles or what.
▶ a94748 (1) No.14611>>14625
>>13888
I would have liked to see something like this. Also, something to show some progression. Like Voyager slowly replacing more and more parts with salvaged or traded tech, making it practically unrecognizable by the end of the series. Or maybe slowly gathering a small fleet of allies following them from Delta Quadrant natives to other stranded crews. They could even team up with a Dominion ship without knowing their people are at war.
▶ c926ee (2) No.14623
>>14426
Actually, instead of Borg shit, it would have been a hell of a lot more fun to have USS Voyager have to deal with ISS Voyager's shit on an ongoing basis; stop the Terran Empire from getting something organized on the opposite ass end of the galaxy, and later on being told by Starfleet not to go home because they don't want Mirror Janeway to start to trend into the Gamma Quadrant and stir shit up with the Dominion (with a "similar to Starfleet" ship it could cause a misunderstanding for sure).
▶ 9e5779 (4) No.14625>>14791
>>14611
>They could even team up with a Dominion ship without knowing their people are at war
That would have been interesting. They should have done more DS9/VOY crossover shit, considering they were taking place at the same time. All they did was "the Maquis exist", and it was pretty lazy.
▶ 8bcd22 (1) No.14692>>14705
>>13888
You mong, pickup a history book. The Wild West due to the lack of a city's amenities meant that you couldn't afford to shoot up the town, gangster style.
>The 'wild' West was safer than the East
▶ 605c1c (1) No.14705>>14781 >>16705
>>14692
>>13933
>le safer than the east meme
I guess that's true if you don't count the literal earth Kazons behind every rock and tree.
▶ 9e5779 (4) No.14781>>14788 >>16705
>>14705
Most Indian tribes were friendly and on good terms with the Americans. They kinda had to be because there were more white people than any of them, and they had cannons and shit. Besides, peace is good for business. Anything you've heard about "scalpings" is basically propaganda from the time.
▶ c926ee (2) No.14788
>>14781
That might have been true later on to one extent or another, but Jamestown/Mayflower era it was not and the English were vastly outnumbered. However, the settlers technical expertise was handy for the tribes in the area they settled in; if you can get a tech advantage over your neighbors by keeping in good stead the new more advanced new people, then it's a good deal, right?
Of course after 50+ years there were too many people here for the tribes to dislodge anymore without having to pick a side; after that things got more complicated but in general Eastern tribes were more prone to keep playing politics (where peace and warfare was determined by who they were getting best deals from, and also local relations, for example French traders marrying squaws and thus becoming extended family and de facto ambassadors) while one's in the plains and Rockies were generally more aggressive; not only to Americans, but also to their natural neighbors as well (again this makes sense since without technology, those locations are somewhat harder to live in, harsh winters in the plains not unlike what we are seeing this very moment and troublesome agriculture in the mountains and deserts).
▶ 69e550 (3) No.14791
>>14625
>the Maquis exist
Until they pissed off Benjamin 'The Emissary of Extinction' Sisko.
Other than that lazy doesn't even begin to describe it. How many episodes were actually dedicated to 'maquis crew'? I remember one where they all got brainwashed and they take over the ship for like 2 hours until Tuvok saves the day.
▶ 69e550 (3) No.14792
>>14160
>implying he isn't utterly retarded and just sperging out
▶ 69e550 (3) No.14793>>15627 >>16705
>>14077
Because if anyone actually challenged Janeway's decisions like they did Sisko's it would be revealed within minutes how utterly inept if not outright crazy and dangerous she is. I would rather serve the historic Blackbeard than her.
At least he doesn't pretend to have qualms about genociding people
▶ 760492 (1) No.15536>>15547 >>15881
>>13890
>Would have been neat if they recruited more crew members along the way or picked up another ship or two.
USS FUCKING Equinox. What ever happen to that cutie Marla Gilmore
▶ d6c2ca (1) No.15547
>>15536
Janeway had her ground up into coffee along with all the other Equinox survivors.
▶ 484cf8 (2) No.15627>>15965
>>14793
The show was doomed the moment it ended up on UPN, but if they'd intentionally written Janeway as an unhinged nutcase, it would've made for a better show than all these YOH/BSG edgemaster wank fantasies.
▶ 3a2d84 (1) No.15827>>15877
>Voyager rations replicators
<But running a holodeck 24/7 is fine
▶ 474414 (7) No.15877>>16705
>>15827
Using force fields and whatever else inside the holodeck takes less energy than producing coffee from thin air.
▶ 9c2e59 (3) No.15881>>15906
>>15536
Oh yeah.. We can't have the voyager restocking with new crew members who could add cool new dynamics and give us new story opportunities.. NOPE. We've got several more seasons to go and we need MORE Neelix, Tuvok, Paris, and Doctor episodes to pad out the run!
▶ 77d998 (3) No.15906>>15922
>>15881
>Shitting on Doctor episodes
>>>/oven/
▶ 9c2e59 (3) No.15922>>15957 >>15959
>>15906
The Doctor is unarguably the only good thing about Voyager, but that doesn't mean he didn't have some shitty episodes. Like that one where he sang for some shitty aliens and then decided he was going to ditch Voyager to go be an opera singer.
▶ 474414 (7) No.15957
>>15922
That episode had some great life-lessons about "following your dreams" versus what you're actually good at, the transient and unpredictable nature of celebrity, and that just because people may like weird shit it doesn't mean they are wrong.
▶ 84d223 (5) No.15959>>16705
>>15922
That sounds like Season 2, Episode 18 of Lexx.
/lexx/ when?
▶ 15df51 (5) No.15965>>15970 >>15972 >>16009 >>16041 >>16172
>>15627
Making the captain an unhinged nutcase isn't edgemaster shit, but suggesting they actually have a limited supply of torpedoes is?
▶ 2f9c56 (1) No.15970
>>15965
If they had a limited supply of coffee Janeway would go into a genocidal rampage.
▶ 9c2e59 (3) No.15972>>16010 >>16012 >>16705
>>15965
After rewatching Voyager, it's pretty clear that Janeway is fucking insane because she's traveled back and forth through time a few dozen times and has knowledge that she can't tell anyone she has. We can pretty much assume that the only reason that Voyager made it home after only losing a handful of crewmembers was because she was constantly making decisions based on future knowledge which makes her look like a crazy person.
Well.. That's a fun theory to handwave away the fact that she's an absolute fucking psychopath, at least.
▶ 9b89e1 (1) No.16009
>>15965
> actually have a limited supply of torpedoes
IIRC, I thought that was the initial concept and pitch of Voyager at least from or supported by Moore, and one of the reason why he left and made the BSG reboot.
▶ ae2135 (1) No.16010>>16012
>>15972
We have no way to know how often Janeway meddled in the timeline.
▶ 31c2ea (2) No.16012>>16013
>>15972
>>16010
>Timetravel
You know you may be onto something there. It was said several times during the show by not only the Temporal Time Police and even Q that the Federation were not meant to be in the Delta Quadrant for a few hundred years. What if Janeway had been manipulating Voyager into the Delta Quadrant all along and was an attempt by her not only to raise herself up in status but also ensure the best possible outcome for the crew and even the Federation?
▶ 09c7d3 (3) No.16013>>16014
>>16012
>What if Janeway had been manipulating Voyager into the Delta Quadrant all along
Yes.
>to raise herself up in status
Oh, yeah.
>but also ensure the best possible outcome for the crew and even the Federation
This statement and the previous statement are mutually exclusive. Janeway used her future knowledge to manipulate her way to Admiral despite doing nothing to earn that rank. As long as we're speculating, I wouldn't be surprised if she influenced Admiral Paris by holding his son hostage. She must have been in contact with the Admiral earlier than is implied, and deliberately sabotaged some of her crew's attempts to get home when he wouldn't cooperate with her demands.
▶ 31c2ea (2) No.16014
>>16013
This is making far too much sense. Have we solved the riddle of Voyager?
▶ 484cf8 (2) No.16041
>>15965
>Making the captain an unhinged nutcase
A minor, subtle change -- could probably be accomplished with clever editing
>they actually have a limited supply of torpedoes
OK, this requires rewriting the entire show
▶ 474414 (7) No.16172>>16176 >>16193
>>15965
>Muh limited supply of torpedoes
I solved that a decade ago. If you check the Voyager technical specs, there's something that looks like a spare warp core. Well, if they had a spare warp core, why was it such a big deal to eject the main one? That's because they cannibalized the spare for parts, because a spare doesn't do you any good if you're dead. What's the one thing you can't replicate that goes into a photon torpedo, and you can't just mine off a planet somewhere? Oh yeah, ANTIMATTER. And what's inside of a warp core…? Oh yeah.
Simple, really.
▶ 09c7d3 (3) No.16176>>16705
>>16172
>I solved that a decade ago.
It's not that it's an unsolvable issue, there are any number of ways that this can be explained offscreen. The problem is that the writers are so lazy and apathetic that they never bothered to do this.
▶ 15df51 (5) No.16193>>16329
>>16172
Regardless of whether you can hand wave it, the show was sold to us under the assumption there'd be an underlying sense of desperation and struggle, and there was not.
And if they're going to do this stuff, it would have been cool to have seen it.
▶ 84d223 (5) No.16195>>16211 >>16329 >>16705
Why does everyone on /strek/ say Janeway is crazy?
▶ 77d998 (3) No.16211>>16231
>>16195
Have you watched Voyager?
▶ 84d223 (5) No.16231>>16341
>>16211
I have seen two episodes before - one where Paris gets locked up in solitary confinement and the one where that asian dude wanted to fuck Seven of Nine.
So no, not really. I have a friend who's halfway through Voyager and he's surprised that everyone on the internet apparently thinks that Janeway's a kook.
▶ a4a5c8 (2) No.16266>>16270 >>16277 >>16705
Consistent writing for a start. The "used torpedoes" video is a good illustration about the people on the show not giving a shit about continuity between episodes, or even important facets of the characters.
Take Tuvok for instance. He looks entirely too young for a Vulcan his age, and it's all due to a decision made about his character later in the series that the writing probably spent three seconds thinking about:
>Spock is born in the 2230s
>Tuvok is born in the 2260s
>Tuvok is only 30 years younger than Spock
>Spock looked like refried jerky by the time Star Trek VI rolled around at age 60-70 ish
>Tuvok looks in his 30s relatively but he's around 90-100
>Tuvok doesn't change at all looks wise between ST6 and VOY
And this was all done to shoehorn in a TMP episode into the show, by making a character dramatically older than he actually appears to be. It's a minor thing but it falls into line with other shit that happens during Voyager. The Eugenics Wars are glossed over, why is 20th/21st Earth normal looking (remember the photo of the old Janeway ancestor living in a nice house in what should have been a fucking bombed out landscape about 10 years before First Contact)? You have Maquis crew that are pissed off at the Federation; this is all barely touched upon as the series goes forward. There's just so much shit that's picked up, dropped, fumbled…it hard to care about the setting and the characters, especially after DS9, when you have this kind of static setting where any attempt to develop the crew either doesn't make sense or is tossed in the trash damn near as soon as it's brought up. Somebody should have kept a folder of what was going on, what was going to happen…and stick with it.
▶ 77d998 (3) No.16270
>>16266
Lots of things are inconsistent in Trek.
Spock can be sort of explained by being half-human
Although something is triggering me I just realized.
>Spock was born in 2230
>Serving on the Enterprise as a Science officer by 2254
▶ 532d22 (1) No.16277>>16404 >>16449
>>16266
The Eugenics Wars thing is never really explained and the best explanation for it is this.
>Khan rules in Central Asia with the other augments
>Massive war to defeat him there
It could be a scenario like WWII where Europe is in rubble but America is fine.
▶ 474414 (7) No.16329>>16397
>>16193
>the show was sold to us under the assumption there'd be an underlying sense of desperation and struggle
There was, just not related to the torpedoes. The whole "we're running out of something" was a constant plot device through the series. Over time, it just became a lot less compelling than everyone's individual story arcs.
>>16195
It's a meme, nothing more.
▶ 573b91 (1) No.16341>>16395
>>16231
She's no more a cook than any other woman.
Though recently I saw an episode where she makes a stupid mistake like Picard, only there's no starfleet brass there to chew her out. One of the borg children they free turns out to be a genetically engineered bio weapon. His body pumps out a borg killing virus. He gets reunited with his parents, and they try to get him re-assimilated, but Seven and Janeway find out and stop it. I can understand not wanting to re-assimilate him, but they go so far as to stop his body from producing the virus. That's like when Picard didn't put the thing in Hugh. They had a powerful weapon to use against the borg, and they squandered the opportunity.
▶ 474414 (7) No.16395>>16705
>>16341
>That's like when Picard didn't put the thing in Hugh
Exactly. It was meant to be a parallel, to show that even when a kbjillion miles from the Federation, even that late in the series, they still weren't squandering their morals just to gain an advantage. Despite what most people think, even war has rules.
▶ 1e29de (1) No.16397>>16513 >>16517
>>16329
>it’s a meme
She’s crazy because she’s inconsistent. To some extent it’s really a problem of different writers and no one enforcing character consistency, but the effect is to make her erratic on a given week.
▶ a4a5c8 (2) No.16404
>>16277
Sure didn't look fine in First Contact.
▶ 860900 (1) No.16449
>>16277
Burgers got their ass handed to them early on, basically they got a combination of EMP'd and Nuked which meant they struggled to retaliate effectively. I think it was meant to be a case they gravely underestimated their opposition.
▶ 474414 (7) No.16513>>16516 >>16705
>>16397
>she’s inconsistent
So is basically every other major character in the show's history.
▶ 09c7d3 (3) No.16516>>16705
>>16513
<Archer
>Porthos, wat do?
<Kirk
>unorthodox solution involving that sweet Orion ass
<Picard
>muh prime directive
<Sisko
>Engage Chimpout, factor 7
Seems pretty consistent to me.
▶ fe1a71 (2) No.16517>>16647 >>16705
>>16397
Its not that Janeway is inconsistent so much as she always seems to choose the solutions to the problem of the week that will hinder and inconvenience her crew the most.
Case in point, blowing up the only realistic way home because she couldn't be arsed to have someone rig up a timer to a bomb. They'll just take the long way.
When aliens steal her crews organs, she lets them go with a stern talking to and even lets them keep the organs. Nelix wasn't using those lungs for anything important anyway…
When she enters into an alliance with the aliens of the week to fight the Kazons's, she is horrified when the aliens actually try to fight the Kazons and walk out in a huff, pissing off everyone.
They meet a group of sentient robots who are dying out because they can't produce new batteries to power themselves. The engineer figures out how to make new batteries, which would leave the robots eternally grateful to the crew, for having saved their civilisation from dying out. Janeway has the batteries and all information on how to make them destroyed, earning the ship the eternal hatred of 2 entire civilisations because "muh prime directive".
When they find a beacon that makes anyone who comes near it relive the PSTD producing horrors of some war fought long ago, she has her crew repair it so it can work properly and goes on her way. Apparently subjecting random strangers to telepathicly induced horrors is just fine. Even when its her own crew who suffers.
She is fairly consistent in making terrible decisions, terrible diplomacy, subjecting her own crew to pointless and unnecessary suffering. She even managed to drive a timecop insane with all the bullshit he had to clean up after every time she had fucked with time.
▶ e425c7 (1) No.16647
>>16517
So you are saying Janeway is sadistic? Suddenly all that lewd fanfiction of her makes a lot of sense
▶ 9d70fd (2) No.16689
VOY has the best pilot episode by far with Broken Bow a distant second.
▶ 152fcd (8) No.16703
>>14251
Because you faggots don't understand the difference between a little tension, and nuBSG.
▶ 152fcd (8) No.16704
>>14113
No, it just didn't last long enough.
▶ 152fcd (8) No.16705>>16721 >>16724
>>14210
>DS9 put the Federation to the test a lot more than Voyager did.
Well….yes….because the Federation was actually fucking there in DS9. The fuck is your point,, that two different shows with different premises did entirely different things? WOW.
>There were no regular characters in Voyager who were not more or less entirely onboard with the Federation's world view.
Maybe. Or maybe they weren't drama addicted retards who actually thought it would be a good idea to immediate start an insurrection that could get half the remaining crew killed and then the rest of them fucked. So even the characters that had issues with the Federation, kept their mouths shut in the interest of survival.
Ever heard of getting Shanghai'd? Men would get kidnapped to sail ships bound from the North American West Coast, and by the time their hands were free, they were well beyond swimming distance.
They all had the option, at one point, of leaving the ship, saying to hell with the journey, and live with a society of humans. the 37s. IIRC, only a few exercised it.
>In DS9 you have the Federation, the Bajorans, the Cardassians, and the Ferengi all making up members of the core cast, disagreeing on all kinds of things. You see how the Federation's secular world view holds up against people who are devoutly religious. You see how the Federation's peaceful ideals hold up in times of war.
Uh huh. Yeah. Your point?
And Voyager is about a group of stranded people banding together into the strongest and safest thing they can grab and praying for the best.
>>14229
He raises no good points. And most of you forget that the Maquis were all former Federation, splitting over a disagreement over territory and defense. The argument about which becamse irrelevant.
>>14285
>Their conflict became irrelevant once it was clear that they would not be getting home anytime soon. They don't have a fundamental disagreement with the federation, they just did not like how their home worlds were treated.
Exactly. They were there as a reason for Voyager to blah blah blah. Pilot episode.
>>14579
They could also trade for them. And such.
>>14705
A temporary problem. That. Was. Solved.
>>14781
Oh look, its /leftypol/
>>14793
Bye nigga
>>15877
Probably. And the Laws of Entropy means there may have been some lost matter here and there
>>15959
Never, its faggot trash
>>15972
….seriously?
>>16176
>The problem is that the writers are so lazy and apathetic that they never bothered to do this.
I want everyone to note that I am not bothering to argue against this.
I wouldn't know wehre to start
>>16195
Chuck has a lot of dickriders who refuse to accept that the man is wrong about anything.
>>16266
>Take Tuvok for instance. He looks entirely too young for a Vulcan his age, and it's all due to a decision made about his character later in the series that the writing probably spent three seconds thinking about:
>>Spock is born in the 2230s
>>Tuvok is born in the 2260s
>>Tuvok is only 30 years younger than Spock
You do realize that some HUMAN FUCKING BEINGS go from 25-45 without appearing to age a day and then age 10 years in a month?
>>16266
>The Eugenics Wars are glossed over, why is 20th/21st Earth normal looking
And this is what I mean by nitpicking bullshit.
>>16395
>Despite what most people think, even war has rules.
Especially when dealing with powers that can and will absolutely crush you if they really notice you.
>>16516
>>16513
yup
>>16517
>someone rig up a timer to a bomb.
That isn't foolproof, and Tuvok even said it might take hours to figure out how things worked….you know, nearly the entire engineering crew was dead.
▶ 84d223 (5) No.16721>>16741 >>16944
>>16705
>Lexx
>faggot trash
As if you replying to half the thread at once wasn't enough of an indication of your autism, you had to go and totally blow it.
I like Star Trek a lot, but Lexx is better than at least Voyager, Discovery, and Enterprise. Except season 3, what the fuck were they thinking?
▶ 15df51 (5) No.16724>>17019
>>16705
Why are you so against drama? TV shows are all about drama. Conflict makes things interesting. It doesn't have to devolve into angst, but characters can disagree every now and again. DS9 did this great.
▶ a7d1ae (1) No.16741>>16946
>>16721
Lexx is better than TNG though, at least until its final seasons which were dog shit.
▶ fe1a71 (2) No.16944
>>16721
To be fair, Lexx IS some gay ass shit. But its the entertainingly bad kind of gay ass shit.
▶ 9d70fd (2) No.16946>>16947 >>16985
>>16741
The final seasons of Lexx were the best.
You need to be on drugs to enjoy the first seasons.
▶ 84d223 (5) No.16947>>17018
>>16946
You have it backwards, the first two seasons of Lexx were Lexx. The Lexxiest Lexx. No other sci-fi show can compare.
My god, I mean, there was a whole episode where they went to some planet where 3 people lived in a castle where cleric zombies would plague them every night, and that's the most sane thing about the episode. I won't even get into the weird lesbian stuff or the singing.
▶ 4a0b10 (1) No.16977>>17016
>>13886 (OP)
What would it take? Eliminate B'lanna and Tom Paris, and make that Bajoran with the self-confidence issues a regular.
▶ 15df51 (5) No.16985
>>16946
>can't enjoy imaginative sci-fi
>needs lame satire of Bush era America
Really, nigga?
▶ 152fcd (8) No.17016
>>16977
>Eliminate B'lanna and Tom Paris,
Why? They were among the best crewman, certainly the most relatable and fun.
▶ 152fcd (8) No.17018
>>16947
Lexx was faglord pozzed up trash with too many fugly people.
▶ 152fcd (8) No.17019>>17020 >>17023
>>16724
There WAS drama on Voyager. There was too damned much of the shit on nuBSG.
▶ 3bc611 (1) No.17020>>17022
>>17019
More drama on nuBSG than high school girls.
▶ 152fcd (8) No.17022
>>17020
The thing that bugged was that it was every minute, of every episode. I ws expecting a no shit episode where a clogged toilet resulted in a 30 minute of airtime DRAMATIC GRIZZLED DIE A-LOG and WAS PROPHESIZED BY HEATHEN GODS.
▶ 15df51 (5) No.17023>>17036
>>17019
I said myself that they should stop short of going full BSG, and aim for something more like DS9.
Drama in Voyager was pretty much
>Captain, I object to what you're doing
<stop that
>okay
▶ 3ef19a (1) No.17036>>17040 >>17054
>>17023
Drama in Voyager was
>Captain our coffee supplies are low
<Genocide that entire planet!
▶ 152fcd (8) No.17040>>17051
>>17036
Ok? And? That's a perfectly reasonable response, so whats the problem?
▶ 2e379d (1) No.17051
▶ 474414 (7) No.17054
>>17036
Half the problems in Voyager could have been solved if they'd just thought to grow fucking coffee beans in the hydroponics bay.