/pnd/ - Politics, News, Debate

This is the exact reason I just buy older used utilities and electronics and stock up on them when I can.

There's a group of computer hardware refurbishers that are trying to pass a bill called Right To Repair on multiple US states. This bill would force such fuckers like Apple, John Deere and every other electronic component manufacturer to publish schematics, sell components and outright remove such DRM-like components in their products, as far as I know.

Louis Rossmann posts a lot of videos about this.

It's also funny how there's an article saying that some farmers have switched to older tractor models and are actually outperforming national averages with them. Just shows you how actually useless this kind of ultra-high tech shit is when you can't even fix a fucking headlight without paying the dealership to send some dude with a proprietary dongle or some shit just to unlock it for you.

The bad news for farmers is that these older models are now going up in price exactly for these reasons.

>>35376

Totally fucked. Any smart fuckers out there looking to hack that shit?

>>35393

>This bill would force

You need the physical infrastructure, will, and applied force to enact compliance. Just saying "you can't do that anymore" to a person/corporation/entity that owns, constructs, designs, and fences off access to the social infrastructure the population has been conditioned to doesn't really work. That's why it's always emphasized here, much to the chagrin of actual government shills, that violence is the only thing that works.

The inevitable fall in the rate of profit inherent and intractable to capitalism makes these mechanisms to secure monopoly rents unavoidable on capital's side. They literally can't do anything else and maintain their position over you.

>>35453

Bump for low quality sage.

>>35459

Jesus…

>>35376

>greed in the age of godless capitalism

That is judaism. Capitalism is fine. Jews are the problem.

>>35403

>Any smart fuckers out there looking to hack that shit?

every minute of every day

>>35403

>>35570

Better yet, just rip out the factory ECU and hook up an aftermarket one. Disregarding all the fancy things most modern systems have, all you really need to run a diesel engine are sensors for crankshaft position and engine load, and a simple computer that reads these and calculates at what time and for how long to fire each fuel injector. An open-source ECU like a Megasquirt could do this and run some ancillary functions quite easily.

The Atlantean Cataclysm causing mini ice age and the Previous Cataclysms that had occured that turned us to carbonized species barely alive from our previous potent 'archon-like' appearance (silicon beings), or even the recent great mud flood which is the reason why there's so many buildings unearthed today to have had a ground floor. There is a coverup they don't want you to know.

Our obsession to silicon/technology is also 'programmed' within us to reclaim our original and primordial form of silicon based life although carbon longevity is achievable. The man symbolizing what had fallen, the cup symbolizing the artificial, the silicon, remains of 'ancient' civilization, cup = femininity thus the ongoing and inevitable astrological 'transexual' and 'transhumanist tech' aspect. To abandon the man, to reach our former. The passover, the final closure and the next great cataclysmic extinction, the great solar flashes, sirius simulation, remote viewing, flux and ley lines, quantum influence and astral travel within the tree of life meaning the universe or the tree bears similar fruits and within that forest is similar trees and within that land is similar forests, lands, infinite instances, pyramids atop pyramids time is looped into itself like a never ending song.

Does an appleseed know there exist another appleseed similar to them inches/yards away? Or a tree bearing similar fruit miles away?

You cannot see what is above you, what is beyond you, but the spirit particle can traverse this vastness, to walk astrally is to simply view. The first step in spirituality is within you, DMT can cause deja vus if you weren't using them for 'dream making' and not having enough sleep triggers deja vu, DMT and others can let you travel astrally or divinate. You can stock up by being in the dark retreat (sourcing external dmt is not advised, can land you to glowsniger or make your brain jackshit) while those who CONTROL are using adrenal chromes.

Upon demise against CONTROL forces, renounce your karma, you will face the great ones who laugh and chatter, return to the material world and acquire a birth mark along with talents,

This year of MMXX be vigilant, as the CONTROL forces are enforcing their goals.

5G, World Surveillance, Mind Control through illumination (what you watch/see/lcd).

Darkness is our friend, Light or Illumination is their tool. The Man and the Cup (Amorphous/Aquarius/Anonymous) will rise against the Lion (Royal/Predator/Ruler).

The Pisces (ICHTYS) and the Virgo (Virgin Mary Worship/Roman Empire) was the former. This paassover it is your turn. Christ, the savior.

Life is indestructible.

www

www

>>35591

This.

Standalone that bitch and arduino the rest if you were stupid enough to buy one in the first place.

Buy Case Tractors. /thread

>>35596

lol fag

>>35591

>>35598

Main downside to that is that your insurance is going to use this as an excuse to refuse payment.

>>35403

Apparently the Ukrainian firmware allows farmers to bypass the restriction, but sellers of keys for it usually charge about 100$ for a key

>>35510

Not inherently, but indeed easily bent to judendom's will, much like communism as well. The third position is the correct position, as you say

>>35453

>>35462

Double bump for a double nigger

>>35619

>Main downside to that is that your insurance is going to use this as an excuse to refuse payment.

I've written off 3 vehicles and cost the jews a lot of money.

At no time did insurance check I was using a legit ECU or not.

>>35628

Interadasting, 100 bucks is worth it for some autist to hack it.

— If it ain't broke why repair it?

— Why? replied the COO of Deere.

He calmly moved his mouse's cursor over a big red button on the Central Management's control panel and clicked on it. An entire group of icons representing the vehicles used by loyal Michigan farmers who were behind their subscription renewal instantly reported as "disabled".

— See? Now it's broke.

>>35393

It is a good idea. Do you know 70 years ago most utilities including radios came with manuals that showed exactly how the products worked and how to repair them? This was very Americana. Consumers were expected to know how utilities worked and could simply buy spare parts when they needed them to maintain the appliances.

Of-course this all went away after all the industrial outsourcing. Once we got Big Tech govt-enforced monopolies things got even worse because the government is so in bed with Big Tech they are forcing Big Tech into every other sector of manufacturing even when its not needed or wanted by consumers. What we have today is a 100% government-run government-enforced monopolized fake economy.

I suggest you all to keep an eye on Louis Rossman and the hearings he goes too, you too can make a difference when it comes to this. It not only rapes farmers up in the ass but also people in need of repair when it comes to everyday electronics, it also fuck a lot of start up companies. The amount of jews who are against this is just staggering as well.

>>35848

I mean jews against the Right to Repair bill.

Consumers have an option NOT to buy Apple.

Do farmers have the same choice? I mean, these Russian tractors look really cool.

>>35510

Capitalism wasn't supposed to be government-enforced monopolization which is clearly what is taking place today. It was originally an economic ideology that promoted equal and fair competition in an open market, freedom of innovation, consumer choice. Those that can't appeal to consumers won't end up successful, those who do will be successful. It had nothing to do with Jews, governments or any subversive cult dictating how things can be made, who can produce them, to whom they can sell these products or any bastardy non-sense. The second government reared their ugly head and started to intervene is when we started to see so much such shit quality in production and manufacturing. The government literally incentivizes shit quality production of digitized junk no one really wants but is eager to crackdown on others that don't comply to those awful new production policies or standards.

Someone cracked a great joke on ZH under an article about US stealth jets not being able to shoot correctly (due to new govt-enforced digitization standards): "Boeing, the border wall, Tesla. now Lockheed. Sooner or later, everyone will just have to face the bitter truth… the US can't produce anything of quality anymore. There's no way to compete with Russia or China unless they are all crippled by CIA-assisted bio warfare."

>>35874

The sad thing is, if this shit keeps happening to consumers in America I might as well buy my shit from other countries! I don't want to buy basic appliances that have to be hooked up to an internet, or things I can't repair myself! That's why I refuse to sell my older trucks and still drive my old F250 today. I won't buy things that rely on all this computer shit that really doesn't need to be! If Russia sells some stoves that are as good quality as America's 60s Jenn-air brands let me know, I'll consider it.

>>35877

I hear you. We drive a 26 year old F250 to and from town and use an even older, mechanically-injected M925 to do work around around thew ranch. A "new" truck wouldn't survive a few trips to town & back. Plastic POS's.

>>35875

>Capitalism wasn't support to be government-enforced monopolization

You sure about that?

>>35875

>>35875

>Capitalism wasn't supposed to be government-enforced monopolization which is clearly what is taking place today.

Capitalism doesn't need government at all. In fact, the only place capitalism can truly thrive is without government. Governments are formed by companies trying to herd people into pens where they must consume the company product. All governments are the enemy of capitalism.

>>35890

You sound extremely mixed up and confused. I think you've OD'd on jewish libertarian psyops.

>>35890

I think capitalism can thrive with government, but not with too much governmental intervention in the market place. Some government is necessary (for example laws preventing fraud or outright theft). The problem is when governments get too big and consolidate too much power they feel the need to control everything including the economy and market place – that is when capitalism cannot survive and everything becomes a government-enforced monopoly like we see happening today.

>>35900

Crooked Jews often lobby politicians and government officials to enforce their monopolistic practices in the market place which undermines consumers, that's the problem. When you have a government that is all too powerful, it can become subverted and weaponized against our interests. Reduce the government's ability to intervene in the market place and you reduce the Jew's ability to subvert it.

>>35900

Capitalism is an absence of government intervention, no amount of claiming "m-muh psiups" is gonna change that.

Now if you want to actually display some kindergarten level of intellect in pointing out it's flaws. You'd point out that like anarchy it doesn't last long if you get it, because of the power vacuum and/or it being so much more profitable to run to oligarchy making rather than actually competing.

>>35912

I know, I had an older CTR TV that I could have easily repaired by replacing a malfunctioning bulb. No matter how hard I tried I was not able to find a replacement bulb for that exact model. Decades ago I'm sure some electronic appliance stores would have had them available but today they don't encourage people to repair stuff, they encourage people to buy new products.

>>35915

>Capitalism is an absence of government intervention

We did have capitalism for many years and things were just fine, America made some of the best quality products in those days. Today there is too much governmental intervention, so much so they are forcing all car manufactures to digitize all vehicles. Same with government pressuring and regulating other manufactures into doing the same with all the other utilities and appliances. Its hard to find a fucking water heater today that doesn't require digital input to function. Explain how government is helping us today by imposing all this Big Tech bullshit many clearly do not want.

>>35591

I love the idea of hacking the ECU the problem I see is how do you duplicate a ECU if you have no idea what the original does. By this I mean you would physically have to have hands on to read it and evaluate it. And no fucking way will Deere sell one to anything other than an authorized dealer. So you can buy a brand new tractor and voila you have one to tinker with. You can ask a 1000 farmers if you can use their new tractor to read its ECU, you will probably get 500 "no's" and 499 "fuck no's", so finding that one farmer that is willing to let some kid fuck around with their new quarter million dollar tractor could be a problem. The other problem I can think of is the connectors they are probably sole sourced to Deere specifications so there would be no real easy way to just plug your new ECU in. Reading it you could jump out all the pins on the connector on your bench in very nice controlled enviornment. But at some point you are going to have to plug your new box into the tractor and this shit needs to be bomb proof. This is a great idea in theory but to actually produce something that is workable seems like a nightmare. The plus side is if indeed you can pull it off you will have an immediate immense market for your aftermarket box.

>>35453

gonna go ahead and give out another bump for this retardation

>>35911

That's a feature of capitalism, not a bug. Profit falls over time.

>>35915

Profit falls over time. Capitalism trends to monopoly because it must. There's no other way to maintain rents.

>>35376

>To be fair, part of the problem is that the government actually mandates that manufacturers of cars, tractors and other vehicles make them as proprietary and complicated as possible to ensure that consumers are forever dependent on corporations in order to live.

This is the crux of the problem. Americans need to pressure the government to back off on forcing companies to digitize everything and as consumers we should be boycotting the companies that enforce this kind of planned obsolesce.

>>35954

>But at some point you are going to have to plug your new box into the tractor and this shit needs to be bomb proof. This is a great idea in theory but to actually produce something that is workable seems like a nightmare.

I was cautious of replying about this ECU issue because I was concerned it may be too overly complicated for some of us. I'd imagine there are many tech-savvy enough to duplicate what is needed for the mechanics to function properly. But how many farmers would really know how to do something like this? The cost of messing something up could be enormous too. I'd say it would be safer (and cheaper) to get an older tractor that still works, something that still can be easily maintained properly. I'd imagine as time goes by these older tractors will become harder and harder to find too.

>>35954

>>36000

In the aftermarket world, most shit is plug and play.

If you can't crack the code (maybe one day or for a while) as per >>35628 which is how you can gain access to configure or clear repair codes on the tractor, turn off the hissy-fit light or enable operation again, the only alternative is an aftermarket ECU.

They typically come in two forms.

One is per-vehicle specific which is true plug and play e.g. a superbike ECU can be piggybacked or plugged in directly to the bike.

Or it's standalone. Which means you might have to make your own harness, if it's not supported by a 'wiring kit' that does the tricky part for you.

However, most wiring service manuals (to get them can be sometimes tricky) will show how an ECU functions and what does what, so you can understand the wiring loom before.

All the data mentioned in this thread exists, it's just not always public, or for a fee. That plus the parts are the crux of this matter.

>>35996

Capitalism was never intended to guarantee success to anyone, it was intended for competition on an open free market, with the opportunity to make profits (not any guarantee). Capitalism also allowed consumer choice, so consumers could decide who to support and who not to support (and there was no guarantee to any company that they'd have desired consumer support). The point was for fair competition in the market place and if a company went under for something stupid or incompetent they went bankrupt, another company would take its place and face the same risks. There was no intention to monopolize anything or to have the government intervene and enforce unfair regulations that burden consumers while protecting greedy corporations. If these new digital mandates were repealed and the government were forced to back off consumers would once again have more choice, more alternatives to support. And companies like John Deere would be forced to provide what consumers wanted or face loss to their competitors on the market.

>>36011

You're just rambling off the talking points and avoiding structural reality.

>>36012

Monopoly relies on governmental intervention in the market place to crush and outlaw competition and alternative options through bureaucratic regulations. This is what the government is doing right now by mandating how companies make their products. This is effectively restricting consumer choice and fair competition.

>>36017

Yes, the government that is owned by capital is doing that. Because otherwise they couldn't maintain their rents through the inevitable fall in profit.

>>36026

Well back in the day companies that lost too much profit would face bankruptcy and be replaced by their competition who also faced the same risks. What changed so much and why? I assume corruption and greed has a lot to do with it. A good fix would be limiting the government's ability to intervene in the markets and perhaps cutting off subsidies to corrupted and incompetent corporations too.

>>36029

You're lost and just talking in circles. There's no real hope for Anglosphere conservatives. You're too far gone. You can't stop demanding more of what has already put you on the brink of extinction.

>>36031

I wonder how government managed to survive all the previous bankruptcies. What negative impact did the bankruptcy of County Seat, Blockbuster and Sears have on the government? Maybe the government should have forced consumers to buy and rent from retail stores? Obviously I'm being sarcastic but it's the same kind of idiotic thinking going on when governments are now forcing consumers to buy digitized utilities.

>>36049

Very good point. I wonder if another company would be allowed to build tractors (or even vehicles) that did not rely on centralized computer circuits to control everything? Or is that in fact illegal for companies to do today? If so, that's the problem.

>muh capitalism

Based communists, misdirecting blame to their opposing system instead of to ((those in charge))).

>>36088

It's not this linear. National Socialism also recognizes capitalism for what it is. Ultimately, the communist system proved more capable of dealing with the jewish question during the postwar order. That's a bit of bitter pill for conservatives in the Anglosphere to swallow, so they tend to invent fictional narratives and cling to them like grim death.

>>35875

>It was originally an economic ideology that promoted equal and fair competition in an open market, freedom of innovation, consumer choice.

Gay.

Control usury and you'll buy everything else, from organs to children to politicians to nukes.

Burgers and their fucking capitalism…

>>36029

>Well back in the day companies that lost too much profit would face bankruptcy and be replaced by their competition who also faced the same risks. What changed so much and why?

Only the companies that make the most money survive over long periods of time i.e. only the greediest, most anti-consumer, monopoly-seeking corporations will survive over a long enough time period.

Corporations are like some form of primitive lifeform, specifically, they are parasitic as they can't exist without their host (man).

A company is not a country: it does not produce it's own food, energy or other essential resources. A company is a parasitic band of thieves that seek to gain by finding some way to get people to give them money, whether that is morally, for example, by creating amazing new products than benefit all mankind, or immorally, for example, by buying all of their competition and then having free-reign to jack up the price of their product/service; planned obsolescence; somehow harming their competition; etc.

It can be a fantastic symbiosis or a terrible parasitic relation

>>36129

That happens in socialist and communist countries too. All that proves is systems are easily corrupted.

>>36377

>Only the companies that make the most money survive over long periods of time i.e. only the greediest, most anti-consumer, monopoly-seeking corporations will survive over a long enough time period.

Yes, perhaps if they buy off the politicians! That literally happens in every other nation that is not totally third world unfortunately.

The only problem with capitalism is government has become corrupted and weaponized to consolidate control. They not only allow unfair practice they enforce it. That's the biggest problem. Cut the government's ability to intervene in the markets and it will lax the strangling grip over the nation. Then you won't have oligarchs being able to weaponize the government for their own greedy special interests.

>>36088

Maybe (((those in charge))) wouldn't be so damn powerful if the governments they corrupted and subverted were limited in ability to do whatever the hell they pleased? Maybe by curbing corrupt government it undermines those (((special interests))) who have bought them out?

Clearly the article makes one good point, it is the government's fault for forcing industry to digitize all their shit for planned obsolescence. Whether that happens in a capitalist, socialist or communist country doesn't change the fact that it's an abuse of power on the government's behalf.

>>35376

>Just

This shit has been building for decades but not everyone is fussed; many farmers love their new tractors because using them basically entails sitting in a plush chair in a climate-controlled room and sexting your wife/watching youtube/etc. while the tractor drives itself via GPS and you look up every twenty seconds or so. If something needs adjusting, you just press the touchscreen and maybe flick a lever and bam - it's adjusted.

That said, if you're not a richfag (you know the type - 5+ generations on primo land staked out in the 19th century, tens of thousands of acres and growing as their smaller neighbors fold, subsidized to the gills, at least a few family members in the state legislature, family name on at least one government building somewhere, everything new and shiny) the new tractors are not only cancer but potentially ruinous. Models from the 60s-80s in good repair are selling for more than their original MSRP, especially smaller and mid-sized models.

>>36059

The main legal hurdle for retailing them would be insurance, I imagine. Then again I don't really know shit about manufacturing tractors.

>>35996

>Profit falls over time.

That's right off the bat (((monetary inflation))) at work and maybe even (if you're particularly optimistic) achieving post-scarcity.

>>36026

>Yes, the government that is owned by capital is doing that.

So you have government that isn't doing what it's supposed to (ultimately taking bribes) and you think that that same system is ever gonna work for you if they get more power?

You're the one talking in circles bud.

>>36400

Well the primary problem is always corruption.

You could probably make the "nevah bean dun b4" failure ideology of Communism work if you could keep the people in power from going mad with power, but it's SO fucking easy to corrupt mainly because government has full power to do whatever it wants and "for the good of the population" you can't be permitted to own anything.

>>36452

>The main legal hurdle for retailing them would be insurance, I imagine.

Fortunately insurance companies (and goobermint safety sallys) don't trust electronic systems and want manual disconnects/deactivators, so if you could avoid anything that the (((environmentalists))) would screech about you should be able to sell them without to much hassle.

>>36464

>Fortunately insurance companies (and goobermint safety sallys) don't trust electronic systems and want manual disconnects/deactivators,

Insurance companies also love electronic nannies and safety features and lick their chops over the fact that only certified techs can do so much as breathe on the cowling.

>>35413

Not necessarily. A right to repair means these types don't have a leg to stand on if someone does develop a way to repair things without going through them. If they can't seek legal remedy for people replacing headlights without them that is good enough.

>>36059

>>36464

>why can't they make them without electronics

If it's anything like cars, it's more due to emissions legislation so a govt-caused issue.

I think you can get pretty simple tractors though, India is still making them definitely.

Send them a dear John letter.

>>37495

youre just using industrial as a buzzword now

is web 2.0 industrial and web1.0 pre industrial? because theres even more difference between the two than a world without electricity or steam

>>36000

>>35954

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about tractors but I would say give a current model some time to mature. Eventually bigger repair shops will have worked around the manufacturer. You can probably find ECUs for testing and make your own. How many farmers can manage this? Probably not many. What I've heard is most farmers are boomers anyway and 103% of them won't be able to manage this.

ECU is rarely the problem for electronic nanny bricking anyway. Usually it's some sort of ancillary which if you wanted a tractor I assume you could work around. Another good option would be finding similar models to your tractor. I imagine JD would make an engine for many applications. Swap an ECU from a mining truck into a tractor or something. To just reiterate, nothing is impossible. If a bunch of spastics on a bulgarian canoe carving forum are discussing this, certainly a entrepreneurial tractor repair shop is several steps ahead.

Doomsday option is to LS swap the world.

>>36452

As the old models eventually dry up I would predict a market for modified bare-bones newer models. Quasi third world mode

>>36059

Emissions I assume is the biggest hurdle. Get around that and you should be good. The only reason we have half this electronic crap on everything is because there are only so many ways to skin a cat. In the past you could sell a car on reliability. Now all cars are pretty damn reliable. So manufactures have to compete by adding stupid gay crap. Additionally the public is far less mechanically inclined so they need flashing lights to buy something. There are videos of chevy advertisements in the 1930s that are 10-20 minutes long. At that time Chevy was trying to sell their car by explaining through basic mechanical principles why they had a better differential or leaf springs or drum brakes than Ford. Try try that today and 90% of the car buyers wouldn't even know let alone care what a differential is for. They do care though if they can sync their government spy phone device to play some jewtunes.

>>35376

Don't buy john deere then. Go with a brand that lets you actually repair it. Hit john deere where it hurts - in their wallet.

>>38341

There are actually apps you can get for your phone that will read your car's computer and pinpoint errors and suggest repairs. The kits are really cheap, too.

>invented electricity

Er, no. Harnessed, yes, but electricity exists in nature. Just sayin' … don't be a "we wuz".

>>35393

I think the market will dictate whether or not this practice will work. I've listened to Louis Rossmann's statements and he is absolutely ethically justified in being flabberghasted that companies are "locking out" repairmen.

This would feed into two paths: repairmen would need to "pay for a certification" from the company on likely an annual basis - i.e. company gets a cut of their work. OR B.) repairmen would need to send customer to factory-compliant repair center (inconvenient, expensive, and not guaranteed to work — factory-compliant doesn't mean guarantee of good work).

I think C.) refuse to do business with companies that do not allow their items to be repaired outside of a factory-compliant place.

For heavy equipment, buy old Komatsus, Volvos, TEREXs. Even old CATs have proprietary hinges and bearings that can only be removed through the use of a CAT-specific tool.

For commercial vehicles, get vehicles that aren't overly computerized. Pre-2008, unironically. The good news is that these vehicles are easy and cheap to scoop up. The downside is that they can be a pain in the ass to fix yourself. And the repair costs may just make it not a fun investment.

Basically - fuck companies that need you to sell your kidney and first born to use their product. If normies can't get the drift, fuck'em. They will get pilfered by any greedy jew with a stick of bubblegum and a hand to catch a wallet.

>>38824

I need to protect that cat.

why was this anchored? this is extremely important info.

WTF MODS?

>>39095

answered your own question.

>>39095

Welcome to /pnd/ >>43368

>>43388

>>39095

>>39220

Agreed, this is a worthy debate.

Un-anchored. No idea who/why this was anchored in the first place (I also agree there has been a bit of over-use of anchoring in past and BO warned the mods to not do this anymore) - if you need a friendly mod just ask in the /cvg/ bread as I might not see all reports.

Enjoy..

>>35845

One of the reasons you can't do this anymore is integrated circuits and PCBs.

It's simply too difficult for the average person to diagnose and repair these things.

Open up a ye olde TV and a modern one and you'll quickly see the difference.

Can't just yank the tubes anymore and test them. You'd need to get in there with a multimeter and figure out exactly where the damage is and what kind of damage it is.

People like Rossman have the knowhow and the equipment to do this but most don't. And even then people like him rely on this hardware having the same problems consistently due to design errors and the like.

Now if we improved education in general and got more people to understand modern electronics, how they function and how to maintain them?

Then we could maybe start doing this again but it would take at least a few generations to get to that stage.

And by that point who knows what sort of wild tech we'd be pumping out.

>>52853

It's part of the design process. Manufacturing something to be difficult to repair doesn't mean it has to be. But, it's not profitable to make it easy.

>>52853

In the absence of serviceability (which I agree is unavoidable with modern computers' molecule-scale electrical machinery), they could at least sell replacements, and/or open source the hardware like Raspberry Pi. Though >>52915 has a good point that many designs use computers gratuitously because they don't care about serviceability.

It is, though, also the case that the average American won't service their things anymore, so there's almost no point in making them serviceable. Whether to blame this on (((education))) or (((overspecialization))) or (((something else))) is an exercise for the reader.

>>35628

I love how Autismo's price shit. I had the same issue. Basically spending hours fixing shit, someone insist they should pay you for your labor.

>IDK a $100 bucks?

Afterwards beating yourself up because you asked too much. When I started asking a lot more, people believed in my business more. Consumers are dummies.

>>52995

Well you may say that they use modern electronics when they don't have to.

But they sort of do have to.

A lot of older technology is simply no longer manufactured. Especially not on the scale to produce consumer goods and provide replacement parts for said goods.

So while yes you could use older technology you'd have to produce everything yourself.

In the case of ICBs you can find yourself in the situation where that specific ICB was only manufactured in a single run for your product and is now no longer available.

>>35376

Just gotta produce the classics, there's plenty of old patents laying around. Find some welders and look it up. Don't rely on these big companies anymore, they outsource 80% of their work to indians and they don't care about United States anymore. They care about their bottom line, and pushing the project along to maintain payment.

>>53075

What is an ICB? When I looked it up, I couldn't get anything useful. If you're saying that designers have a restricted selection of components due to old components falling out of use, I'd have to have an example, because it seems that computers are overwhelmingly being used to control, rather than replace, mechanical parts. The John Deere tractor is a good example of this; it's not like the computer is replacing its gears or anything; their choice to include it can't have been from part scarcity because it's adding parts, rather than replacing them.

All that said, I suspect I misunderstand you

>>53264

ICB Is a bit of an old term that I forgot never really gained much traction in the wider world for integrated circuits. The error is mine there.

Basically while many of these are standardised theres still a lot that only get used for a few things or have limited productions runs that are quickly bought up but then slowly used up over years.

Basically they have advantages over discrete circuits (ones with seperated components that could easily be maintained) in the fields of cost, power efficiency and speed.

The main downside is initial cost. Since designing and making the fabrication tools can be extremely expensive.

Despite that high initial cost. You do see a lot of them being used for only a few things. The standardised ones that can be used for a number of things are around but not as ubiquitous as people tend to think.

This is most common in consumer electronics. Where ICs will have a production run of a few million then never be made again as the manufacturer uses them up over the course of a generation or two of products. Apple does this a lot.

When one of these integrated circuits break. Repair is impossible. You have to yank the chip and replace it with the exact same one. But if that one is no longer produced or has never been available to the general public then your options for spares are limited to products that used it.

>>53264

>What is an ICB? When I looked it up, I couldn't get anything useful.

Integrated Circuit Board, probably. Which is stupid, because virtually everyone calls them PCBs, or Printed Circuit Boards.

>If you're saying that designers have a restricted selection of components due to old components falling out of use, I'd have to have an example, because it seems that computers are overwhelmingly being used to control, rather than replace, mechanical parts.The John Deere tractor is a good example of this; it's not like the computer is replacing its gears or anything; their choice to include it can't have been from part scarcity because it's adding parts, rather than replacing them.

Firstly, he's talking about a lack of interchangeability for electronics - ie. every tractor can only use the model of computer that it came with and that if something happens to this computer and you can't get another one of the exact same model your tractor becomes the world's largest paperweight. Secondly, electronic control does entail replacement - the replacement of certain mechanical systems with electronic systems. It is much, much easier, cheaper and more reliable (for the end user, that is) to control individual components electronically instead of mechanically in a complex system. For many simple systems electronic control can either be neutral or a negative in terms of efficiency but as you move up in complexity it becomes much easier and more simple to use a computer. Now, do tractors need to be so complex? No, but that's a separate issue.

Look, imagine a theoretical job that entails periodically opening and closing cabinets. If you're only interacting with one or two or a few cabinets it's easier to just open and shut them by hand as an electronic actuator requires both labor (installation) and money (parts, electricity, etc.). Now, what if the scope of the job increases to several dozen cabinets? If you wanted to do this task manually you would either have to rig up some complex mechanical system or do them one or two at a time but if you decided to use electronics you could just flip a switch and actuate all of the cabinets at once. Now imagine that the job has become even more complex and each cabinet has to be opened and closed under certain conditions, such as a light inside the cabinet going on and off. Would it be make more sense to do this task by hand, to spend money hiring more employees or to make a one-time investment and spend a day adding photosensitive switches to the cabinets? It's the same thing with a vehicle. The more systems and adjustments you need, the more you benefit from electronic control.

>>53365

>>53378

Ah; point well made.

I could see the argument that more versatile chips like an Arduino (with its software freely available) could work in the stead of specialized chips (in applications where physical space is not too precious), but most people who would be servicing a tractor wouldn't know how to get the software to run, most companies wouldn't want the world to know what's in their software (although an executable can still be fairly opaque I guess), and if the hosting for the repository ever went down, your irreplaceable part becomes the software itself. Which is all aside from the fact that I can't imagine this ever actually happening outside of Richard Stallman's imagination anyway

>>53495 (sage because doublepost)

Though in fairness to the FOSS sperg probably reading this at some point, it is true that anybody with the tractor could host the software themselves, so the tractor owners could no longer be dependent on the manufacturer for their irreplaceable part, and this detail makes irreplaceable (open) software easier to deal with than irreplaceable hardware. (Since duplicating software is trivial, and duplicating hardware isn't, which is one of its greatest strengths.)

>>53495

Arduinos and raspberry pis are making inroads in this area.

But theres a problem. You have a point where it is cheaper to mass produce your own bespoke hardware than it is to buy something like arduino.

Especially considering nine times out of ten you don't need everything that comes on the board.

Can any farmerfags tell me why they don’t just use fuckhuge trucks to do the job of tractors? I’m a genuinely curious cityslicker.

>>53522

In theory it would be possible (or even profitable) to pass this expense on to the user in the name of serviceability, but again, I don't think most people servicing tractors have the knowhow to take advantage. (Essentially the pitch would be "costs a little more, but you can use it a lot longer")

>>53536

Fellow cityslicker here, but my speculation is that trucks would compress the soil too much (hence the large tractor tires). I think it may also be the case that tractor attachments are more difficult to put on trucks (especially on the front of)

>>53536

On average, everything about a tractor is designed for maximum grunt on dirt in a rugged and easily repairable package and because trundling a few miles along the shoulder of a road is usually the longest road trip they'll ever make, they need basically none of the features that make an automobile (even a large truck) suitable as transportation - you know, just little things like speed, comfort, safety, handling, fuel economy, passenger seating, aerodynamics, stowage…

>>35954

>And no fucking way will Deere sell one to anything other than an authorized dealer

Go to the dealer at Midnight, and ask for one then.

>>53541

In theory yes but your competition who use bespoke hardware will be able to underprice you considerably.

When you consider their computer hardware at scale will likely cost a few dollars per unit compared to the set price of a raspberry pi at what is it in freedom(tm)bucks? twenty dollars?

>>53710

An Arduino's a little under 20 dollars, but John Deere would be ordering in bulk (from wholesale) and/or manufacturing it themselves, and wouldn't be paying the same price as the rest of us. Given that the final price of a tractor is about 1600 dollars, it wouldn't necessarily change the price that much. If the extra 15 dollars of price added another few years (or made it possible to repair/replace parts for it indefinitely), it would be well justified. However, I still think the average tractor user doesn't have the knowhow to put software on an arduino and replace one that came from the store, so there's not much point.

It is probably also be the case that jewing the user as John Deere has done is more profitable than doing a good job anyway. In the long run, I hope it costs them their brand, but I'm not optimistic.

>>53957

>>53957 (sage for doublepost)

>>53958 (Accidentally hit New Reply when reaching for sage)

Also worth mentioning that buying arduinos/pis in bulk has no initial investment, unlike a bespoke chip

why don't they just stop buying from companies that do this? are the margins that thin that billybob next farm over will crush you if you don't have the latest SuperPlow4000?

between this and the tech censorship thing the Right has really turned into a bunch of whiners. The govt will never have your best interests at heart, last time that happened the entire world gang raped germany.

Stop buying DRM'd shit, stop using social media sites run by kikes and faggots.

>>53586

>Also, “maximum grunt on dirt” doesn’t seem like an issue for a truck either with the right gear reductions and tires.

You don't seem to get it - the entire purpose of a tractor is to slowly and consistently exert linear force on soft, unpaved terrain and that's exactly what they're built for. A tractor doesn't have to carry anything, it doesn't have to go faster than jogging speed and it doesn't have to have any considerations for paved roads or even most slopes. Comparing a truck - even a heavy-duty truck designed for towing - to a tractor is comparing apples to oranges.

>>53971

>why don't they just stop buying from companies that do this? are the margins that thin that billybob next farm over will crush you if you don't have the latest SuperPlow4000?

It's because MUH JOHN DEERE I BUY AMERICAN I DON'T WANT NO JAP CRAP.

>>35376

>Buying masonic junior deacon tractors

Caveat emptor

t. Qoomer

>>53536

>Can any farmerfags tell me why they don’t just use fuckhuge trucks to do the job of tractors?

Wet earth or AKA mud.

Look at how a tractor wheel is placed vs a truck it enables a huge amount of ground clearance.

Ancillary equipment is designed to be hooked onto the tractors 3 point hitch and hydraulic lines are attached there as well.

TLDR a big ass truck just wont be worth a fuck trying to attach a plow and driving through a field.

Same thing happening in cars.

I'm not sure what the english word is for it (I'd like to know though, feel free to post it), but you essentially have a mini-computer inside them running a lot of diferent shit.

Changes between manufacturers and even diferent models.

What some anons predicted is indeed happening. Some mechanics went to college, took those "degrees for working adults over 30" into electronics. They don't teach you everything, they give you the basics to learn for yourself.

There's been a lot of experimentation, everyone developed their own method, and ocasionally share it, but it's a wild field rife with competition.

For perspective: you take your car to get fixed at the Manufacturers mechanic, that's 800€. You take it you Fred's Bolts and Bits downtown? 100€.

It's not even new, this shit has been going on for almost a decade now.

Source: I got family doing this shit. They asked me to look into it (to automate it, since I graduated in a relevant field). It's not my job, and taking it up as hobby woudl sink a lot of my time, but from what I saw, all you need is persistance to "get in". And once you do, you roll in cash.

Quick advice for anons: in the last decade, a lot of "Electro-mechanic" degrees started popping up and getting popular in universities world wide. This is the main reason, and I can guarantee you: if you can deal with math and some programming, you can easily earn more than a doctor (especially if you can keep your mouth shut).

>>35453

Fucking faggot. I absolutely detest "men" that cannot or do not care about repairing things on their own without help from an "expert." You're probably the type of man that calls in a "technician" to replace an oven element.

>>80268

> what the english word is for it

embedded micro-controller.

>>35403

It's a cat and mouse game.

The best solution is a permanent one, give these greedy fucks a good reason not to screw us over.

>>35376

The new wave in technology is going to be radically cost-reduced manufacturing. This will be spurred by the push to move Western manufacturing concerns out of Asia, which will cause rapid advances in automation, process improvement, and scalability; i.e., generalized "manufacturing outfits" will be able to quickly and cheaply re-tool manufacturing lines to accommodate a wide range of components, at any scale of production. Mechanicals and electronics will go full open-source in the same way software did after the cost of computing was greatly reduced, and you'll start seeing legitimately useful appliances for small-scale, in-home manufacturing; you'll download CAD assemblies for components and devices the way you download software now.

>>35376

It's a shame for sure. But there is a solution. Do not buy John Deere. Really is as simple as that. Yep gonna make being a farmer a lot more complicated and it will drive up the price of older used equipment many farmers cant survive without, but that's the power PEOPLE can wield over capitalism when it's gone wrong and tries to be a sneaky hybrid of socialism. These changes are not driven by greed but are driven by the idea that people must always be under control of a higher authority in every aspect of life.

Look at the poisoned apple. How many anons are holding a apple iphone right now while they read this. It was no secret what apple represented even back in the late 70's and early 80's when they touted a computer system that was locked down under apple's thumb, and then had enough nerve to call the PC a product of "Big Brother". It was so painfully absurd that even back then it made me sad and FOREVER leery of apples future intent. They have not let me down.

Dont blame capitalism. Blame the billionaire socialists who are using their money to paint the world red.

>>92112

Buy Russian tractors. Very few of them include a computerised anything because rooskies don't include unnecessary things in shit they build.

Course that can also include things like comfortable seats or decent shocks because you don't NEED them.

>>35894

blueprints?

been wanting to do this for a while, they sell kits online.

Only thing is the laws definition of motorized bike varies

>>92119

Hell, at this point I'd rather buy a Chinese tractor that is mechanical and can be repaired than a digitized one vulnerable to breaking down and unable to be fixed easily. Anons can call me "Un-American" all they want but the fact is this: start creating consumer-friendly products again or get BTFO by competition! I will discriminate against ANY products that are not consumer-friendly, period!

I'm still using my 1960s Jenn-air stove and my old Maytag wash machine! Both are old as the hills but work just fine! Kikes BTFO!

>>92707

>replying to a 2 month old (1) and done

Seriously, nigger?