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Excelsior!

Sister site: [Fan-fiction]

File: 418db9f7c83d1f8⋯.jpeg (50.27 KB,333x499,333:499,1984.jpeg)

 No.14186

>We, Brave New World, Player Piano, Fahrenheit 451

>concise refutations of the utopian literature of the previous century

>warnings about social and economic trends that are actually spreading throughout western democracies

>outcry against the dehumanization of man

>thought-provoking observation that one's man utopia will always be another man's dystopia

<1984

<dude fascism lmao

Why the fuck is 1984 treated like the greatest of the old dystopian novels?

____________________________
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 No.14187

I've only read Brave New World and 1984 before I've had enough with the genre, but I still prefer 1984.

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 No.14188

Why are you asking a question on a dead board?

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 No.14197

>>14186

It was written at a certain moment in time when western governments were concerned about the USSR actually winning. Orwell had fought with a Trotskyite militia in the Spanish civil war, and was shocked at how the Soviet forces deployed to aid the Spanish Republicans turned on the anarchists, even in the face of a formidable mutual foe. There were very few other western writers who had personal experience with the Soviet Union under Stalin and who also didn't lay out a radical platform of their own in their work. Had the ending of 1984 consisted of an egalitarian but still recognizably socialist revolution against the hegemony of Ing-Soc, there isn't a doubt in my mind that the book would never have achieved the popularity it did.

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 No.14199

>>14197

The USSR fucked over it's own people?

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 No.14200

>>14186

Well the obvious answer to your question is that most people have not read 1984, nor have they heard of any other dystopian novel besides 1984. The average normie understands 1984 to broadly indicate a loss of truth and oppressive state regime, but otherwise doesn't know anything about the novel. Of the old dystopian novels, ones which describe the worrying trends in Western democracies are disfavoured by Western academics because they describe the very trends they support. You can see this in how Brave New World's vision of a populace willingly enslaved by its own desires through novelty-seeking, sexual conditioning, drugs and consumerism, is uncomfortable to a liberal who engages in rampant consumerism, novelty-seeking, drug use and sexualisation of their children in accordance with their own childhood.

>thought-provoking observation that one man's utopia will always be another man's dystopia

Not terribly thought provoking tbh. If you look at the utopia genre you can immediately see that utopia doens't necessarily have to be eudaimonia, or in other words, a utopia doesn't have to be an idealised goodness - only an idealised system of governance. A great example would be Plato's Republic, which as a utopia is based upon a founding lie and features a stratified hierarchy built upon a military-philosopher caste that keeps the realm in check from foreign intrusion or internal dissent. Thomas More's Utopia also features criminal reform through slavery in gold fetters, and intense regulation of social structure by society, for the ultimate goal of a society upon which every individual is free - but without liberty, and can leave Utopia at any time, but would be without any reason to even think of leaving.

The common theme of all genres of utopias is that they are stable, strong systems of governance which keep society running fairly, content and as free as permissible, with utopias differing on what other virtues are desirable goals of the utopia. Whether ultimate benevolence, happiness or freedom of all peoples is present in the utopia is entirely dependent upon the utopia in question.

Another way to look at it, is that the utopia is run with the ultimate goal of governing its citizens wisely in perpetuity. It is often written as an idealised thought experiment, to reflect upon reality, and not necessarily be implemented as written.

The dystopia is run with the ultimate goal of its own survival in perpetuity regardless of its citizens. It is often written as an extrapolated and exaggerated description of current trends as a reflection of reality, written as a concern for a future that is being implemented.

The utopia may take a citizen's liberty to make them a capable, free man, possessed of the self-discipline, talents and virtues needed to do whatever they desire to do - and choose to do well.

The dystopia may take a citizen's liberty to make them a slave, possessing no capabilities or self-discipline, talents or virtues, being able to think of nothing that may jeopardize the status quo.

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 No.14201

File: dad47170f94a81a⋯.jpg (14.55 KB,208x313,208:313,Dark Green, Bright Red.jpg)

File: dd53bef01692fdc⋯.jpg (32.73 KB,216x330,36:55,The Comedians.jpg)

>>14186

>Why the fuck is 1984 treated like the greatest of the old dystopian novels?

Increasing difficulty with finding a universal cultural touchstones, and laziness.

1984 was widely taught across the American public school system. This is because it was considered safe as a warning of what "they" (the Soviets, communists, subversives, current issue enemy of the month centerfold, etc.) would do to us when they won. That Orwell was trying to be more of a generalist, 1984 was more about us, less about them, never made an impression. A teacher trying to point out why was apt only to confuse the class. It's not like the teacher had to provide any interpretation. Orwell spoke for himself. Yet, even an enterprising autodidact had nothing to guide him. No public school library I ever haunted (in the days of pre-Internet availability) held a copy of Homage to Catalonia, or any of his other more practical musings on the politics of the human condition. Way I hear it, in the US school system, non-fictional presentations of this sort remain a serious no-go.

And so, everyone "knows" 1984, keeping it popular, keeping it as a most useful cultural shorthand of all that is bad with others and how they plan to destroy us.

No matter. Let us stick with a single funny little fictional tale as our cultural totem. As Orwell demonstrates, we have nothing to fear by the teaching popular fiction. Finally, as we are obviously not in the business of building dystopias for others, we are clearly safe from ourselves as well.

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 No.14379

>>14187

Brave New World is a satire, you gotta read it like its a shitpost.

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 No.14380

>>14379

We should read shitposts like they're Brave New World.

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 No.14381

>>14379

>shitposts are satire

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 No.14387

>>14379

No it's not. It's dystopia that can be seen as utopia, if you don't care of how dehumanized the entire society is (as its inhabitants don't mind).

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 No.14388

>>14387

>It's dystopia that can be seen as utopia

Only if you're stupid.

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 No.14390

>>14388

Or leftist

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 No.14392

File: 67bef7103f6ec10⋯.jpg (19.39 KB,380x342,10:9,no u.jpg)

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 No.14394

>>14392

Get the fuck out with this Know Your Meme tier dated crap.

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 No.14409

File: 952ba4e8f9b164c⋯.jpg (69.2 KB,614x575,614:575,1451683446503.jpg)

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 No.14414

>>14186

for me, there's the odyssey, theres harry potter, lion witch wardrobe, and lord of the rings. and then there's also 1984.

there are basically only a few good ideas for stories.

keep in mind that most of these author were presumably part of a global elite that gave them inspiration.

Eric Blair or "george orwell" worked at the bbc, and just like the movie (and also v for vendetta, it illustrates the warning of BRITISH>>14201 not american totalitarian dystopia.

>>14200

this is my opinion, but brave new world was just mandatory to fulfill my ocd. it wasnt very good, but it helped my understanding of the indulgences of society and the great philosophical questions of our time.

tl;dr 1984 is the staple dystopian novella introduces a totally(almost) new idea to literature

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 No.14422

>>14394

I thought it was funny.

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 No.14754

>>14186

Brave New World doesn't depict much of a dystopia, tho: that world is arguably better than the real one for almost everyone involved.

1984 has an issue with cartoonish villains for sure, but at least it creates a really unpleasant world.

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 No.14762

>>14754

Brave new world is a utopia in the same way cattle live in paradise. They are kept happy and given what they “love” regularly. Kept enslaved not with chains but with instant gratification.

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 No.14765

>>14186

1984 was a commentary on what was happening with the soviet union. 1984 is relevant because it did fucking happen minus the tech and is now slowly happening with the tech.

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 No.14769

>>14762

I don't argue that BNW is an utopia, I argue it's not a dystopia either.

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 No.14770

>>14769

>thought-provoking observation that one's man utopia will always be another man's dystopia

Some people would love a sex based society around only feeling joy but for others it would be pure hell.

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 No.14785

>>14754

>cartoonish villains

Like fucking Mao and Kim Jong-Un?

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 No.14786

Fahrenheit 451 is my favorite. Its commentary (despite being a bit dated) on mass electric media and how it destroys people's attention span and turns them into superficial, drooling idiots who are incapable of understanding true value and empathy for real people, is spot on. It really makes you think about how in the real world people are trying to destroy ideas they find offensive or too challenging. Also I actually liked the characters. Some dystopian novels forget to make their characters human and not just empty shells for the author to talk through or make some hamfisted point.

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 No.14839

>>14762

>>14769

My view is much more simpler than most posted here, but BNW is what happens when you obey the Masters, and 1984 is what happens when you try to break the trains. The people who are happy to remain slaves live like those in BNW. Those who reject things such things are treated like Winston was in 1984.

>>14186

>Why the fuck is 1984 treated like the greatest of the old dystopian novels?

It's probably because it's just well known, and the title makes it very memorable.

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 No.14842

>>14786

That books been on my shelf waiting to be read for 4 years now when It was gifted to me.

I recall seeing some SJW cunt on twitter take a pic burning a copy and it broke my heart a little. The very idea of burning that book. I've been trying to fight the right word for what it's like.

>>14839

BNW's ending really stuck with me.

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 No.14846

Putting aside its mainstream presence, 1984 feels exaggerated but checks so many boxes if you live in a socialist country it makes you do double takes often. Reading The Turner Diaries while being an American discovering /pol/ or a rough equivalent some years (a decade?) ago must have felt similar.

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 No.14863

File: 212701e2590510f⋯.jpg (14.19 KB,313x499,313:499,31GrJPt690L._SX311_BO1,204….jpg)

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 No.14875

>>14846

What the fuck does 1984 have to do with socialism? IngSoc is supposed to be reminiscent of the fascist Nazi party, who put "socialist" in their name to dupe the rubes.

How the fuck does anyone miss the point of 1984?

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 No.14880

>>14875

You tell me.

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 No.14897

>>14770

>Some people would love a sex based society around only feeling joy but for others it would be pure hell.

Don't we already live in that?

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 No.14899

>>14897

In reality you can still opt out of mindless hedonism without attracting the direct attention of the continental dictator.

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 No.14907

>>14875

True socialism has never been tried, right?

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 No.14947

>Why the fuck is 1984 treated like the greatest of the old dystopian novels?

Because is the best one to use as propaganda.

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 No.14948

>>14947

IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE AN INSTRUCTION MANUAL.

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 No.14959

>Why the fuck is 1984 treated like the greatest of the old dystopian novels?

because it's easy to understand even if you never read it, which means it's easy to shill, which means it's easy to brainwash the goyim (create context)

basically, 1984 is "dude fascism lmao". if you google "average IQ per country 2018" you'll easily figure out the answer to your question

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