/liberty/ - Liberty

The whole idea is to have free markets be the law. Not running an illegal operation of hot property like a leftist shithole country.

>>94790

I know. Government will never have a say in what gets regulated. That is the whole point after all.

>>94791

Molarph:

>me? i'd be an aristocrat, not a serf like 99% of the population

AnCap:

>me? i'd be an bussiness owner, a hobbyist or an employee for some other company.

AnCom:

>me? i'd be the leader of the proletariat revolution *beats up trashcan*

Cumskin tranny mod:

>me? i'd be an card-carrying member of the party, not a starving slave like 99% of the population

American/nazi:

>me? i'd be a white, unlike 99% of the population

Fascist:

>me? i'd be the leader of the country, like 1% of the population

Fixed it for you.

Agorism is very important, since we need infrastructure to substitute the government-controlled stuff eventually. But don't kid yourselves, it won't solve the problem by itself; when they feel sufficiently threatened, they WILL bring the fight to us, and we need to be prepared for that as well. That said, of course the objective would be for that to happen when the state is at its weakest, but I very much doubt we can solve this centuries-long problem without culmination into violent conflicts.

>>94794

I wholeheartedly agree with everything here. Of course the government will try to implement authoritarian rule and we need to be ready for whatever happens. But at the same time, wouldn't the personnel occupying the government be worried about killing their own families by enacting a civil war?

>>94795

There will be some defectors, but don't expect them to be majority. People without strong morals will ultimately default to the side perceived as militarily stronger.

>>94796

True. But the vast majority of people would be anti authoritarian. Wouldn't the state be outnumbered especially since they cannot control the amount of military equipment that citizens have due to the free market?

>>94797

Maybe, but the movement would need to get to such a point first; that's the role of agorism, to get the resources and personnel necessary for such an undertaking.

This article really nails it https://www.zerothposition.com/2016/02/29/liberty-requires-revolution/

>>94798

Thanks, bro. How do we accelerate this? I'm tired of government intervention and i want to grow up in a state free world.

>>94799

I think the most we can do as individuals is spreading the knowledge to people around us, and of course applying that knowledge wherever we can, be it on entrepreunership or anything else. We're playing the long game until the movement reaches critical mass, though I do expect crypto and overall tech advance to speed things up a bit. But we can't really undo centuries of mistakes on a couple years, so…gotta go slow and steady.

>>94800

Makes sense. Is there a community of ancaps and agorists that isn't dead?

>>94801

Well, Liberland exists I guess, but I don't know other examples that are internationally notable. But I guess you should search locally for like-minded people for a start.

>>94802

Well, alright, then.

>>94802

>Liberland

>successful settlement of libertarians and Agorists

>Some literally who? Czech Lolbert setting up a tent and planting a flag that instantly got torn down by the Croatian goverment is a "successful settlement of Anarchists and Agorists"

>>94808

>haha, you think you can live peacefully on your own terms and mind your own business? Well TOO BAD, the government's going to come and burn it down!

When it comes to outreach communists are their own worst enemy.

>>94809

True. These are the same kinds of people who think their system can work even when it doesn't factor in economic calculation, hierarchy structure and direction. It's just show up to work, make whatever and go home at 12am.

>>94839

Funny thing is that Ancap admits existence of other systems (as long as no one is forced to participate, of course), but the inverse isn't true.

>>94840

Funny thing how communists think that things can be of value without consumer demand.

>>94842

It's even more ridiculous when they say time invested necessarily increases something's value. Literally refuted by a burnt pizza in an oven.

>>94845

This basically, only ancom in that picture can be replaced by anything that doesn't respect private property

>>94846

>It's even more ridiculous when they say time invested necessarily increases something's value. Literally refuted by a burnt pizza in an oven.

Exactly. I order something, they take forever on purpose and now i have to pay them $1,000,000 for a spoiled dish or some burnt chicken because my order has value due to so much time invested into making it. Commies propose this system so that they can get away with scamming you and justifying the fact that they're poor and they need cash. And yet we're the one's who are selfish?

>>94848

>I keep telling these niggas about libertarian sea cities, but they still won't listen

How to found an anarcho-capitalist "state" in the 21st century:

1. Creating land is easier than hoping to get it from existing governments.

2. You'll need at least enough money to build the island and bribe bloggers to advertise it.

3. Nuclear weapons are the great equalizers between nation-states, and without them you will just be raided by nearby governments the moment your project becomes significant.

>>94849

> Nuclear weapons are the great equalizers between nation-states, and without them you will just be raided by nearby governments the moment your project becomes significant.

You just need to make yourself too valuable to nuke. Becoming the ultimate tax haven is better than a nuclear deterrent, especially now that Luxembourg and Switzerland have gotten crowded and expensive. The capital inflow would also draw more intelligent, successful people towards your island. Trying to use a few nukes in place of that is not only really fookin expensive, it's more trouble than its worth–look at how NK or Iran are portrayed in the news right now, imagine being on the receiving end of that but with a dozen times more hysteria, because THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A GOBBERMUNT!11!

cryptoanarchism.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180302004850/http://www.cypherpunks.to/faq/cyphernomicron/cyphernomicon.html

>>94859

Pretty much what i'm going for.

>>94850

Yes, becoming a tax haven will be fucking great, and it will happen either way, but by itself it won't offer the added security from a state aggressor. Some arrogant government will just see it as easy pickings, and will simply bring its troops to our shores because "why not?" and we will just become a sad footnote in history on why anarcho-capitalism won't work.

Despite all the bad press, even NK has tourists coming to visit every year. If you have people moving in, plus something that guarantees your existence, then you're good and it doesn't matter what anyone says.

>>94865

> simply bring its troops to our shores

More likely Special Forces, various species of glowniggers, fund subversive shit through foundations and economic warfare.

The age of "We'll just march a division over the border" are mostly over.

>>94866

Same shit, bruh. Only nukes will protect you from all that kikery.

>>94791

What slaves are there in ancap? I know you pizzafaggots know jack shit about economics (like other marxists), but the LTV is outdated junk, and is the sole basis of any argument I've heard about people not being free in ancap.

>>94794

Sure, but agorism both makes the government more jank, and is the trigger that can lead to their last stand against freedom. For instance, uber has weakened gov't control over the taxi industry, and crypto is a potential trigger that could defund the whole shit, and that they would have to react to with by taking off their masks, should it gain mainstream adoption.

>>94865

How would being a tax haven not protect you from gov'ts? 2/3 of the reasons for the U.S gov't's mass murder in other countries is because of lobbyists. If the lobbyists have their cash with us, they would be negative towards any initiative to attack us on a large scale. Switzerland won't be attacked because they're a peaceful tax haven in the middle of Europe. An ancap seastead will by default have two of those, given that there's some attention given to it, and that we disregard the proposition for nuclear weapons in favour of an armed population.

>>94872

Yes, that's the point. The state needs to be weakened before any conflict happens.

>>94865

> Some arrogant government will just see it as easy pickings, and will simply bring its troops to our shores because "why not?" and we will just become a sad footnote in history on why anarcho-capitalism won't work.

Invasions likely will not happen for the following reasons because:

1.) Everyone in ancapistan would most likely have guns so whoever is invading will be outnumbered easily.

2.) We aren't in anyone's sea territory and our existence will not provoke anyone since we will be somewhere else

3.) There's no real incentive to invade since the invader will always be viewed as an aggressor since it's trying to murder civilians

All in all, having a random tyrannical government raid ancapistan for no good reason is unrealistic and only tells us that you're not thinking this through enough. Essentially, all you're saying is:

>heh, you think you can be left alone in your own country where you aren't provoking anyone in any manner? well, the government is gonna go to war with you anyways!

>>94872

That's the whole point. To get everyone and every business to switch to crypto so that we can trigger the state to go into panic mode and finally collapse. We should launch a campaign for crypto since the IRS is already aware of how it can be used to avoid taxes.

>>94885

I'll just copy from the link in >>94798

"Some libertarians believe that escaping to the oceans will save us from statism. (The far more starry-eyed idea of colonizing space for libertarian purposes also belongs here.) The idea is to colonize the oceans by building permanent dwellings on the high seas outside of the territory claimed by any government. This would create an anarchist control zone that allows anyone to make an effort to live there, escape the state, and build a better future for oneself and one’s descendants. This is all well and good, but it fails to account for the response of governments. Governments do not have a track record of going gently into the night or of tolerating existential threats. If history is any guide, then the response by governments to seasteads that are brain-draining, talent-draining, youth-draining, and investment-draining their territories will be to initiate the use of force against them. When a government warship approaches a seastead and makes demands, the residents will have three options: they can give in, which defeats the purpose of the seastead; they can refuse and be sunk, which also defeats the purpose of the seastead; or they can defend themselves against the warship, thus resulting in a violent revolution."

Simply put, it's very naive to think the state will tolerate a successful organization that challenges its very existence even at the cost of revealing their true nature. After they deal with the immediate threat then its just a matter of manipulating information, just like in every other invading war; history is written by the victors.

>>94860

One thing that I haven't seen done that I'm kind of surprised I haven't is to take the currently existing crypto infrastructure and essentially provide insurance against the State. E.g., if you're a tax dodger, you instead pay a smaller amount to some entirely crypto entity to provide insurance to the parties of your choice if you get caught.

The impact of this is limited, given the severity of what the State has to offer, but maybe if implemented correctly…

>>94888

You're right. If they'll get mad at companies leaving for china, imagine how pissed they'll be once everyone goes to ancapistan.

>>94888

Also, it' not just the companies, it's everything that the quote included, that being brains, talent, and youth. If their future is being taken away from them by inviting their future generations to migrate to ancapistan for a much better living standard, then they're at odds. They'll try but they won't be able to stop it unless they nuke us .

>>94889

>if you're a tax dodger, you instead pay a smaller amount to some entirely crypto entity to provide insurance to the parties of your choice if you get caught.

That's genius.

>>94883

>Explain pls. Is this in reference to muh pizzagate

He's talking about Italian fascists. You know, the fascists who hate whites, and force the "cumskin" thing.

>>94797

Revolution is the only logical conclusion.

>>94789

> agorism believes in peaceful revolution via black markets

not really

>>94896

While I definitely agree that it's not an easy task, and would not happen instantly, the appeal is there. It's important to remember that most people that have great influence over the goonerment are roundtable-tier tyrants. We do know, both from neccessity and experience (switzerland), that powerful people have a need for a freer place to store their nazi gold. Ancapistan would appeal to this to the greatest degree, and other forms of investment would also profit from being moved there. So, when boeing has skin in the game, they're not gonna lobby for war against ancapistan, and probably against such a proposition. This goes for most of rich people that have direct control in the gov't, as well. Maybe the Rothschilds or someone would send the CIA undercover to fuck individuals there up, but a noticable conflict wouldn't happen.

>>94900

Ross unironically dindu nuffin

>>94888

This is exactly why I find the idea of a revolutionary "promised land" to be fundamentally flawed. The entire paradigm of the state is territorial control, and they're bigger than us. They simply won't let us get big enough to challenge them.

That's why the only way to succeed is to weave yourself quietly into their population. Don't make a scene; just quietly attract their "customers" to a thousand separate enterprises, all too disbursed to target, and all too much better than state services to pass up.

I have some ideas in this regard, which would pretty much require the gov't to permanently jam all wireless communication worldwide to really shut it down. The thing is, I don't have the programming expertise to make it happen. Collaboration would be appreciated. And no, I'm not talking about creating a big organization; I'm talking about creating peer-to-peer services that allow anyone to profitably compete directly with the state's services on an encrypted, distributed network.

>>95025

You're on the money. The more decentralization there is (on every aspect of society), the weaker the state becomes.

>>95025

>This is exactly why I find the idea of a revolutionary "promised land" to be fundamentally flawed. The entire paradigm of the state is territorial control, and they're bigger than us. They simply won't let us get big enough to challenge them.

The point isn't to get "big enough" to challenge them. A porcupine might be eaten by a lion if the lion tried hard enough, but it's such an unattractive target that the lion wouldn't even bother with it. Just look at North Korea. We should plan on becoming very unattractive targets.

>I'm talking about creating peer-to-peer services that allow anyone to profitably compete directly with the state's services on an encrypted, distributed network.

That's good, technology certainly helps erode the power of the state, but one new technology just by itself won't fix all of our problems, though it would help a lot.

>>95025

>The thing is, I don't have the programming expertise to make it happen.

Left/Com here. What you describe can be done manually, with off-the-shelf (i.e., communism) GnuPG. This is often done with lawyers, in fact.

>>95105

I'm looking to build something quite specific, actually. I omitted a considerable amount of detail.

>>95107

Well, then, that'll make it a bit harder, but if you have any specific details you'd like to post here, my commie ass can help you facilitate the communism of your dreams.

For free. Because that's how the internet works. ;)

>>95122

Fuck off.

>>95151

This guy isn't me, but I don't think teaming up with a Left/Com would quite fit my vision, no offense. I'm hoping to make a little money off of this idea. A very small fee, spread across thousands of transactions a day, can really add up, and be reinvested into further development of the platform. I appreciate it, though. So far I can't seem to find people who both share my vision and have the skills I need. I keep finding one or the other, but either they don't have the skills to implement what I describe, or they're worried it "could be illegal".

I'd be jazzed about having a nonprofit competitor come along and copy me, but I just think that if this idea is going to get anywhere, it needs financial incentives to succeed.

>>95158

I know that feel, man. I just never had the brand of autism necessary to be able to learn programming to make all the cool world-changing ideas I have into a reality. I'm trying to earn some money to at least hire someone who can get shit done for me.

When I have a child, I'm going to make it learn programming because it seems those are the kinds of guys who are going to rule the world in the coming technocratic-autistocracy.

>>95158

>I'm hoping to make a little money off of this idea.

Not really an obstacle, but you just turned down free work, so I wish you luck in your endeavors.

> I can't seem to find people who both share my vision and have the skills I need. I keep finding one or the other

It's almost like the market works.

>>95178

>I just never had the brand of autism necessary to be able to learn programming

I know that feel, except i already possess the autism to know C#, C/C++, Python, PHP, and Java. I have so many unfinished ideas and projects that i have never completed.

>>95227

Sure as hell scared the crap out of some posters before it fizzled back into pretend, though.

>>95178

Yeah, I started taking some computer science courses online before my life flew apart a few months ago. I was hoping to at least understand things well enough to put together a skeleton of my idea so that a more experience programmer could iron it out for me. Hopefully soon I'll be able to get back to it.

>>95227

>you just turned down free work

I'm trying to preserve my first-to-market advantage. It shouldn't be too hard to copy my idea once it gets out. I'd like to have gotten established before that happens.

>It's almost like the market works.

I don't follow. I need somebody to be both willing and able to develop the thing I need. I assume that as a Left/Com, you wouldn't be too keen on creating a profit-driven platform, as that's anathema to your political philosophy, and I couldn't in good conscience ask you to develop code and then try to keep you from using it for a competing project. I really do respect and appreciate your offer. I'd love to see what folks like you come up with in response to my project.

>>95302

>ancap flag

>programming skills

Interested?

>>95331

Huh?

>>95338

>I assume that as a Left/Com, you wouldn't be too keen on creating a profit-driven platform, as that's anathema to your political philosophy

Not really.

The entire goal is to smash the stratification of those who may employ capital for gain, and those who may not. People buying and selling without permission is one of the quickest ways to do that. We're not kidding about the whole "capitalism wouldn't exist without the state" bit, and this is basically number one.

We like the gift economy. It's created by getting up and doing it, though.

> I couldn't in good conscience ask you to develop code and then try to keep you from using it for a competing project.

Okay. I can respect that.

…though admittedly, since I was pretty sure it would mostly be a batch scripting shell for existing solutions, it probably wouldn't much apply. Very hard to proprietarize other peoples' work.

>I'm trying to preserve my first-to-market advantage. It shouldn't be too hard to copy my idea once it gets out. I'd like to have gotten established before that happens.

You might want to look into the "attribution" chains of copyleft. You're probably taking a big hit if you're asking people to run closed code, whereas any competitors' version might end up advertising you (and being code you can incorporate in yours if desired)

Attribution-FLOSS Copyleft might be your best hope for preserving market advantage. Especially since your whole project is probably off-the-shelf code right now.

>Huh?

I assume they were talking about >>95147 / >>95151 . Someone got scared for a second.

> I really do respect and appreciate your offer.

Oh thanks.

>I'd love to see what folks like you come up with in response to my project.

Probably wikihow… for better and for worse. ;)

>>95025

>I'm talking about creating peer-to-peer services that allow anyone to profitably compete directly with the state's services on an encrypted, distributed network.

The government has a big problem with people and healthcare. What we need is to create a healthcare blockchain ICO based on smart contracts so that individual healthcare companies can use it with people looking to buy a healthcare plan at low prices and it'll have an upvote/downvote system that consumers can use to highlight which provider is the best, thus increasing competition between other businesses. This will really get the government riled up since they couldn't solve the healthcare problem themselves which will lead to a crackdown on this alternative that leaves the consumer with two options: to stop using the ICO or get arrested. Once they realize this, then the users of this ICO will see the state for what it really is and will continue to use the ICO in spite of the state. The state won't even be able to enforce this rule since it operates outside of their monopoly, thus weakening their apparatus.

>>95396

My plan was actually insurance in general, not just health insurance. When you enable people to insure anything on an open market, things can get really interesting really quick.

>>95396

>that leaves the consumer with two options: to stop using the ICO or get arrested

Since we're talking about something that would require confidentiality between several parties I can tell you it's extremely unlikely that everyone wouldn't just choose "stop, because it's illegal and therefore wrong". People do not want to do things that will get them into any trouble. Doubly so when you increase the number of potential liabilities.