[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / agatha2 / ausneets / gts / jenny / mde / sw / tingles / wooo ]

/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
Password (Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Oekaki
Show oekaki applet
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
dicesidesmodifier

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 16 MB.
Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000.
You may upload 5 per post.


WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: ee7a099b53ecf9a⋯.png (96.6 KB, 600x600, 1:1, Ted Kaczynski.png)

 No.94563

Was he right?

>industrial revolution happens

>millions of people lose their jobs

>communism enslaves half the world

>people work soulless 9-to-5 jobs in factories

>people lose their touch with reality and nature

>spiritually degraded and physically weak society

>SUDDENLY DIGITAL REVOLUTION

>people yet again face possibility of losing their jobs due to automation

What do we do when robots inevitably take over our McJobs which will make so many more people misplaced it will make the industrial revolution look like a joke.

 No.94564

Why should I care about the threat to low-skill workers who don't invest in themselves?


 No.94565

File: 9aaf75c42bb1d3f⋯.png (206.33 KB, 655x742, 655:742, following me.png)

>>94563

<millions of people lose their jobs

No they didn't, IR created millions and raised standard of living by a ridiculous amount. Commie history professors aren't honest with you, so it's best not to believe them.

<communism enslaves half the world

No one likes commies, but using this a reason not to advance is like saying you don't want to be rich becasue you're afraid someone might steal from you.

<people work soulless 9-to-5 jobs in factories

I'd rather work 9-5 in a factory than work 5-11 breaking my back in the fields and hope I don't starve in the winter. Most commoners in the IR era agreed, which is why they flocked to factory jobs en masse, despite muh threshing machines.

<people lose their touch with reality and nature

Those are two different things. And industrializing doesn't require you to lose touch with it, if anything it allows you to appreciate it more fully, because its scarcity turns nature into an exotic and interesting thing, as opposed to tedious everyday life. If there's a market for appreciating nature, there's an incentive for entrepreneurs to buy swaths of untouched land and turn it into a tourist spot for hikers and naturalists. It's also easier to appreciate nature when you have the money and go out to the really beautiful places, instead of just whatever happens to be closer to you, as the income of a subsistence farmer doesn't allow for travelling the world on vacation. It's a lot easier to appreciate nature when you can travel out to Alaska or the Amazon and immerse yourself into it, rather than glancing in the direction of the woods as you slave away in the wheat field.

>inb4 there wouldn't be a market for nature because people don't care about it now

There's backpackers fucking everywhere these days, it gets more popular every year. Sure most of the newcomers are faggy leftists instead of hardcore naturalist types, but you can't say they don't appreciate nature.

<people yet again face possibility of losing their jobs due to automation

No they don't: https://mises.org/wire/why-robots-wont-cause-mass-unemployment


 No.94566

File: a9cc649b0952598⋯.png (1.32 MB, 960x960, 1:1, 1506969530770.png)

Better question:

What will YOU do when robots take over YOUR McJob?

I've already made my preparations. The jobs in my field likely won't be automated in my lifetime. Even if I become unemployed, I have plenty to fall back on, as will my children and—if they live as I have lived—their children as well.

Don't be like the masses. Do not wallow in misery. Be pro-active. Be the captain of your soul.


 No.94567

File: 7f368536b2c5f7c⋯.jpg (144.32 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 1510792629872.jpg)

As for libertarian perspectives on the industrial revolution, I recommend the second essay from Hans-Hermann Hoppe's Short History of Man. Here is a passage:

>. . . [O]nce it is realized that the Industrial Revolution was first and foremost the outcome of the evolutionary growth of human intelligence (rather than the mere removal of institutional barriers to growth), the role of the state can be recognized as fundamentally different under Malthusian vs. post-Malthusian conditions. Under Malthusian conditions, the State doesn’t matter much (at least as far as macro-effects are concerned). A more exploitative state will simply lead to a lower population number (much like a pest would), but it does not affect per capita income. . . . And in reverse: a "good", less-exploitative state will allow for a growing number of people, but per capita incomes will not rise or may even fall, because land per capita is reduced. All this changes with the Industrial Revolution. For if productivity gains continuously outstrip population increases and allow for a steady increase in per capita incomes, then an exploitative institution such as the State can continuously grow without lowering per capita income and reducing the population number. The State then becomes a permanent drag on the economy and per capita incomes.

>p. 101


 No.94568

>>94566

>What will YOU do when robots take over YOUR McJob?

The thing about automation is, they are not cheep for new company to invest in. Even the robot doing the job, it needs to be supervise and take care of. New job will always be there to along with you working together with the robot.


 No.94569

>>94566

>>94564

>Ha ha fuck you, low-skilled worker! That's what you get for not being born with a 900 IQ like me in a wealthy middle class family!

How does it feel being an asshole?


 No.94570

>>94569

How does it feel like having no future both as a person and financially?


 No.94571

>>94570

How does it feel being a sociopath without any emotions?


 No.94572

>>94563

That's like saying lightbulbs are bad because they displaced candles, it's a completely retarded argument. Obsolete products and the jobs that produce them will always be substituted as technology marches on, the only thing that keeps people displaced for a long time and unable to adapt properly is the state's interference in the market, with its bullshit regulations to keep their friend businesses from having competition.


 No.94584

>>94571

Feels good, i won't die from tuberculosis at the age of 30, unlike you, stupid commie.


 No.94585

>>94569

It does not take a 900iq to be a ranch hand or a brick layer


 No.94597

No the industrial revolution raised the standards of / continues to raise the standard of living of the vast majority of the earth's population

You can't go back to a purely agrarian society as the system that existed under (feudalism) no longer exists


 No.94598

>>94565

What part of communist theory talks about the industrial rev being bad?

We see the industrial rev as the final collapsing of feudalisms economic and social order and its replacement with capitalism not a moral act either one way or the other


 No.95316

>>94567

Basically this. The industrial revolution was great, the emergence of the modern state wasn't.


 No.95323

>>94584

Someone's begging for a beheading.

To everyone else: somewhere in this cycle, there's me and you, what are we prepared to do?


 No.95332

File: 347c2d03f31a004⋯.png (25.38 KB, 146x200, 73:100, 347c2d03f31a004409e2840e37….png)

>>94567

Hoppe is so fucking based, holy shit. So this is what women feel like while reading erotic literature?


 No.95336


 No.95349

>>95316

There inevitably entwined.

What, you really think expotential growth and the larger and larger concentration of technology and capital are compatible with MUH FREEDUMBS?

And here we are, 200 years later, with dysgenic breeding patterns everywhere, most people reduced to the status of obdient tax cattle unable to fight back and sociopathic elite working to rule over a global favela.

Truly the best of all worlds possible!™


 No.95351

>>95349

M-muh roads!!1!!111


 No.95354

File: e8e90a16a0cf24a⋯.png (4.5 KB, 277x271, 277:271, Substantiate your claims.png)

>>95349

>There inevitably entwined.

How? You haven't described the causal connection and barely touched on the correlation, don't say retarded shit without backing and expect people to believe you.

>What, you really think expotential growth and the larger and larger concentration of technology and capital are compatible with MUH FREEDUMBS?

Basic economics says they're not just compatible but reinforce each other.


 No.95370

The largest problem with modern automation is not that it causes people to lose jobs, it is far more esoteric. It's that it effectively proves a sort of Turing-completeness for conscious action as a whole. Any conceivable action that a human can perform can eventually be done better by an AI, and that includes even soft subjects like raising children or pleasing your wife.

Most people in the world have already made concessions that reveal they do not assign human life inherent moral value, which can be observed by their willingness to restrict other people's choices. Mass taxation, offensive military campaigns, compulsory schooling, enormously long prison sentences; these are all things which routinely destroy other people's freedom, yet they occur repeatedly throughout society with proportionally tiny resistance.

This is allowed because the average person is a pragmatist, and incomplete ideas of pragmatism can justify any action as long as it in the pursuit of some greater goal. Of course, the value of the goal itself is never fully demonstrated, because doing so would require the use of first-principles, and even a minimal set of first-principles would condemn convenient violence.

Since consciousness does not automatically grant humans moral consideration in pragmatism, "meaning" is only assigned to those that are useful. Such a mindset can successfully masquerade as an ethical framework in a world where there's labor for humans to perform, because it still encourages a person to be trustworthy and well-mannered. Unfortunately, it will collapse once there is not a single job that humans are better at. At that point, a human is as useful to another human as a cockroach is to a person now. Perhaps even less useful than that, because humans can scheme and commit crimes, thus increasing the amount of work needed to be done. Therefore, the owners of soon-to-be-powerful AI's will almost certainly use their position to functionally disable competing portions of the population, whether by murder, enslavement, or biological means.

There is nothing anybody can do to stop it at this point anymore than people could have stopped the development of the atomic bomb. If someone in the US doesn't do it, then someone in China will, and so on and so forth.

The irony regarding modern AI's is that they are still finite state machines. While the existence of free-will amongst humans is a debatable topic (pretty much stalled on whether or not human biology exploits non-deterministic physical processes), it is not an uncertain subject for AI's running on classical computers. Given a finite state machine's current state and its current input, you can always predict its next state, regardless of how complex it is. It doesn't matter if the current state of some neural network takes terabytes to describe; the evaluation of a condition is not a "decision" in the sense of free will. This implies that once AI's take over the Earth, there won't be anything left to appreciate that fact.


 No.95394

Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>95370

>>95370

>Any conceivable action that a human can perform can eventually be done better by an AI, and that includes even soft subjects like raising children or pleasing your wife.

Artificial Intelligence is a meme, computers are only filtering variables as vectors inside an array into smaller arrays, its accuracy for a desired result may vary (just watch marI/O and see how many branches of generations are deleted because they constantly get stuck).


 No.95395

>>95370

It seems ridiculous to claim automation proves Turing completeness when the machine was specifically defined to capture human calculation.


 No.95412

>>95370

Given a finite state machine's current state and its current input, you can always predict its next state, regardless of how complex it is. It doesn't matter if the current state of some neural network takes terabytes to describe; the evaluation of a condition is not a "decision" in the sense of free will. This implies that once AI's take over the Earth, there won't be anything left to appreciate that fact.

>X is describable

>Therefore X is not alive

Holy shit better tell neurobiologists before they kill us all


 No.95440

>>95349

They aren't inevitably entwined. There is nothing to suggest that advanced technology cannot exist outside of the state, or even that the government is beneficial to said technology when compared to the lack of government meddling in it. That the rulers decided to increase the strangehold on the slaves when the slaves could breathe with less air is completely logical, but it does not follow that breathing with less air consumption requires you to be strangled.


 No.95648

>>94563

>>94567

>>95440

>>94565

>>95316

>the industrial revolution was great, was great, the emergence of the modern state wasn't

But it seems the industrial revolution inevitably lead to that, in other words is advanced technology necessarily linked to collectivism?!


 No.95662

>>95648

>correlation = causation

Lear to read, retard


 No.95691

>>95648

>in other words is advanced technology necessarily linked to collectivism?!

google assassintion market/ darkmarket/ TOR/cryptocurrencies/3d gun printers/cryptoanarchy/infoanarchy


 No.96256

>>95354

It seems pretty obvious to me that the industrial revolution not only removed most constraints on the size of government while also increasing it's reach.

Centralisation and managerialism were the result, most local forms of governance were rolled over or forced to comply with condition more conductive to the generation of even more capital.

>but reinforce each other.

Freedom can only exist in a cultural context, unless your definition of freedom is essentially unrestrained self-actualisation.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Cancer][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / agatha2 / ausneets / gts / jenny / mde / sw / tingles / wooo ]