/liberty/ - Liberty

In a free society people choose how to pay. In a Statist world, it's necessary to fight to not lose cash because cash increases freedom.

>>87212

Fiat currency is not a store of value, it loses it over time and eventually goes down to zero, like all the other fiat currencies. There's also the fact that you're still participating in the central bankers' form of feudalism through debt bondage.

Cash may be anonymous, but those two features are enough to ditch it for precious metals and cryptocurrencies. The former could be used for in-person transactions, while the latter can be used for both that and transactions with great distances between parties. You can take steps to anonymize any cryptocurrency transaction, and there are privacy-focused cryptocurrencies out there.

It's almost guaranteed that when the US Dollar and other fiat currencies go to zero, you'll see a mass exodus into cryptocurrencies. At that point, no one will want to use pieces of paper, just ask any Venezuelan or Zimbabwean.

>>87281

Cryptocurrencies are fiat, it is just that their creation is not tied to an authority, but to wasted computational power. It is most clearly seen on bitcoin, here http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/ . You can google more info on that yourself.

I still agree on most other points, though.

>>87287

>Cryptocurrencies are fiat

By that same logic, gold and silver must be fiat because they're tied to wasted energy mining them. But that's not a waste. Energy is spent to obtain them, just like cryptocurrencies. The amount of energy required to mine cryptocurrencies or precious metals is irrelevant as to whether or not they are stores of value.

And the kicker when it comes to bitcoin is that there will only be twenty-one million bitcoin in existence. You can't create more bitcoin than there is permitted in its code, whereas the supply of gold and silver increases with every vein of ore found, and who knows how the price of gold and silver will be affected when asteroid mining comes into play. There's more gold in a few asteroids in the solar system than there exists on Earth.

Computational power is a big problem that's being solved with innovative technologies like hashgraph, which drastically reduces the amount of electricity used in transactions and increases their speed one-hundred thousand fold. https://www.hederahashgraph.com/

>>87295

>By that same logic, gold and silver must be fiat because they're tied to wasted energy mining them.

They are fiat not because they require energy to acquire, but because they are not tied to any real-world object or resource. You can only acquire them, and not transform backwards. This is the problem for me, if cryptos could be spent on access of the computational power in the network. I've even created a thread on this topic here, it might not have vanished yet.

>You can't create more bitcoin than there is permitted in its code

Yeah, and its finite amount is a problem, as losing it forever removes it from the system. The same problem with long-term storage of it.

Also, early miners are at great benefits compared to later miners, which is also the result of a fixed number of it. Why rely on some imaginary number and planning when you already have scarcity of resources in the world you live in, which would benefit even further, with them being interchangeable.

>Computational power is a big problem that's being solved with innovative technologies

Good to hear, but effective implementation of an ineffective system is still a concern for me.

>>87295

Yeah, i found it

>>79965

I can not find people willing to sell me Bitcoin for cash (localbitcoin indicates the nearest person is a 6 hour car drive) or work for Bitcoin.

So, yes, cash is still King.

Also, how does Bitcoin handle obsoleting security standards?

>>87304

There's a problem with that where currently cryptocurrency prices are averaged by certain popular websites (the biggest of which is CoinMarketCap right now) and they would have an incentive to manipulate what people see to profit.

>>87318

I do not thing i get you. Are you talking about today's cryptos, or the potential designs than aren't fiat? Could you provide any examples?

>>87340

I was referring to >>79965

> a decentralized cryptocurrency, which price is tied to the computing speeds, which can be mined by giving them to the network, and spent on, by buying them back. therefore, if noone is buying, then the amount of acquired currency is low determied by how much the system itself requires to be managed, and is higher, the more computing power is being used/bought.

How exactly is the price tied to the computing speeds?

>>87364

Oh, i thought of a system where you can offer your computing power to the system(mining) to acquire the currency, but unlike other currencies that remain that way forever, you can use it to gain access to some amount of system's resources, reverting the process, basically making it tied to a physical resource, or the one that is completely dependent on a physical resources, to be correct.

The amount of gained and received currency would be determined by the amount of resources in the net currently and the amount of the users of the net, i.e. if you mine when there are plenty of people needing some calculations and little miners, you'd get more than if it was the other way. It allows the system to have basically infinite amount of currency in it, making it scalable and decentralized.

One problem i see with it is the acquisition of the currency in the first place, as the comp. power is not wasted but distributed during mining, so basically that distribution is another way of trading it, so for it to appear, something else than just transferring it has to be done, but i think that the work required to manage the net and transactions would do the job, as it is still present, though starting process would be a bit on the slow side, i think.