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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 9b8fc379247069a⋯.jpg (40.97 KB, 640x794, 320:397, 8c2b830.jpg)

 No.87157

How would environment be protected in AnCapistan?

What would stop companies from destroying environment for easier profit? Of course not ever company will be like that but for environment to be destroyed in some area you don't really need many companies, even one can be enough.

Also how would issue of animal abuse be solved? Most of people would not abuse animals obviously, but what about that little amount of fuckers doing it? How do we prevent that?

 No.87160

>>87157

people will buy biodiverse places and make private wildlife reserves there

if someone pollutes you should be able to sue him or her


 No.87165

>>87157

The enforcement of liability and property rights will stop pollution while it's still a local problem.


 No.87168

>Also how would issue of animal abuse be solved? Most of people would not abuse animals obviously, but what about that little amount of fuckers doing it? How do we prevent that?

Why would you want to prevent it? Have you ever tried torturing an animal? It's pretty fun.


 No.87169

>>87157

>Also how would issue of animal abuse be solved

Would you buy something from a guy who beats his dog?


 No.87170

File: 85a803eeadee038⋯.jpg (187.33 KB, 926x1200, 463:600, without.jpg)


 No.87171

File: b0184058dd1c0d6⋯.png (27.63 KB, 582x481, 582:481, 1484866619039.png)

>>87168

>Have you ever tried torturing an animal? It's pretty fun.

I know that feel. I torture communists every day.


 No.87172

>>87168

Nice bait bruh


 No.87173

>>87157

Nearly all environmental "travesties" happen on public property such as lakes and rivers, precisely because there is no private owner who would sue the perpetrators or otherwise work to protect his property. For preservation efforts, look up the privately-owned Philmont Scout Ranch, which is a privately-owned nature preserve that is in far better shape, ecologically speaking, than most national parks.


 No.87174

If it's something public that nobody owns, then the public could file a law suit (kind of like a class action lawsuit) in the private courts. It'd be something like "the people v [business]" and whatever the court rules would set a precedent for other companies to follow, lest they get sued as well. Also, people don't like pollution so they will be inclined to vote with their dollar and not support that business until they clean up their act.


 No.87191

>>87170

>what is collective action problem


 No.87192

>>87174

>billion person lawsuits


 No.87853

Look up homesteading, the US was doing well with a homesteading-type legal system for issues of pollution in its earlier days..

As for people being jerks to animals.. already happening today with factory farming and some slaughterhouses.. "Politics is downstream from culture." Would be pretty simple for a large group of people to ostracize animal abusers (most people hate being hated), or to simply threaten their service providers (roads, electricity, food, water, etc.) with a boycott if they continue to do business with the abusers.


 No.87866

>>87191

Just because there are disincentives for collective collaboration, does not mean that it is impossible from occurring.


 No.87871

>>87157

>How would environment be protected in AnCapistan?

Essentially through property rights. But it depends on what you mean by protected, if you consider a farmer clearing woods to sow a field, or people draining a swamp to build a house as environmental damage then the environment would not be protected, but why would you want it to be protected? You'd have to be some kind of anti-human i.e. environmentalist, who sees the results of action making the world more suitable to human habitation as some kind of blight that must be prevented or slowed, if not reversed.

>What would stop companies from destroying environment for easier profit?

The same thing that stops companies from destroying the environment motivates you to change your oil and rotate your tires, essentially preserving the capital value of land. Say for instance you are a lumberjack, you might in the short-run get a higher profit by clear cutting the forest you own, but in the following years the land will produce nothing of value. You would find a much higher profit in preserving the forest and logging only as much as you can without hurting the forest. This was done in Europe throughout the middle ages, people would tend to their forests the same way they tended to the fields and you can see that continue in modern Europe as most logging is done on private land where the trees are cultivated.

Here's another example, take for instance a plant that is built on a river. The plant owns the river and the land around it. They could pump pollution into the water instead of disposing it some other way and save money, and they would be well within their right to do so. But by polluting the river they destroy the value of the river for other services. The river would be unusable for drinking, fishing, recreation, and no one would want to live next to it. So the money saved would have to be higher than money that could be made from all these activities. Would that mean that no business would ever pollute a river or lake? No, surely some rivers have very little use outside of dumping pollution, but I would expect most rivers to be kept acceptable for human enjoyment because of their innumerable uses.

A more important question is how do we stop the state from destroying the environment? In the United States the federal government during the industrialization of the latter half of the 19th century destroyed people's property rights by allowing businesses to pollute freely and reduce the value of other people's land. They kept rivers, oceans, and lakes as unowned and destroyed anyone's incentive to maintain their value. They confiscated forests and plains and incentivized over grazing and clear cutting because since no one owned the land (or only allowed to own such a small part land) that if they didn't clear cut it or over graze, someone else would. Also, ever heard of the Aral Sea? It's not much of one anymore thanks to the Soviets. I could go on but you get the idea.

>Also how would issue of animal abuse be solved?

Animals don't have rights like humans, they are inseparable, ethically speaking, from land. They're here for human use, whether to eat, for work, or for recreation. Since they have no more rights than a mountain or a tree animal abuse is purely subjective and based on personal feelings and disposition. That isn't to say that I'm indifferent to the thought of someone beating their dog or that I'm pro-kitten stomping, but even when this is illegal and punishable by law, it still goes on quite frequently. In AnCapistan, social ostracism would a powerful deterrent against these kinds of activities but just like the current situation, it would never be totally stopped. Some people just want to hurt animals regardless of the consequences.


 No.87873

>>87853

Factory farms are also propped up by the massive farm subsidies the US government hands out.


 No.87874

>>87873

>Industrial farming would not exist without the government

LOL


 No.87880

>>87874

>Industrial farming would be smaller and less domineering of the market without government propping it up

FTFY


 No.87882

>>87880

Without government they would all employ mexicans for $2 an hour and totally BTFO organic and small farm shit with superior efficiency


 No.87883

>>87882

Without government, everyone who isn't some slavebot with a boomer mentality would live rent-free on their own piece of land and grow their own free food.




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