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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 8ece72bab79ef7b⋯.png (75.67 KB, 800x582, 400:291, youngMenNoLongerGoWest.png)

 No.86954

Is increasing urbanization one of the underlying reasons for the loss of liberty in general? Young people seek out areas with ridiculously high costs of living, high population densities, poor living conditions, stressful day-to-day environments, regulatory enforcement at a moment's notice, and government institutions around every corner?

 No.86961


 No.86970

yes

true liberty is being on your own bit of land, surrounded by nature, free to hunt and forage and grow crops, build your own homestead etc.


 No.86973

Yes. True liberty is being constrained to a small piece of land that you can almost never leave and working your guts out to produce everything what you need yourself. The fact that towns were originally little more than marketplaces with walls should tell us everything we need to know about them. Cities are evil because they foster exchange and enable the social division of labour, freeing mankind from the poverty of mere survival, meanwhile in the good old days every man was an island in themselves and struggled for existence on their own. Liberty means being alone and wasting all your energy on mere survival.


 No.86981

>>86973

> True liberty is being constrained to a small piece of land that you can almost never leave and working your guts out to produce everything what you need yourself

Whether you feel constrained or not is entirely subjective. How much work you need to put in to live the way you want is also mostly up to you.

>Cities are evil because they foster exchange and enable the social division of labour

As do smaller settlements. It's the same thing scaled down. The division of labor doesn't stop existing no matter if it's between two people or two billion.

>freeing mankind from the poverty of mere survival

That's entirely dependent on economic factors. Gathering more people closer together doesn't alleviate poverty in of itself.

>Liberty means being alone and wasting all your energy on mere survival.

It means being free, not being particularly well off or not. It has nothing to do with how wealthy you are or not. Stop confusing freedom and power.


 No.86985

On a personal level, what is the impetus to move to these megalopolises? The last I did, everyone around me was terrible, I had to live in the shittiest apartment, working conditions were shit, I had to live with a box fan to drown out the ever pervasive cacophony of screaming, and although the pay was higher the cost of living made it so my pay was actually worse. Personally speaking, I feel like my life got so much better once I left that prison and could even just see grass. Is it just propaganda that keeps people going there? Again, on a personal level, what is the appeal?


 No.86986

>>86985

I've lived both in a village and in the city, and don't really find any of the two more appealing. The only real reason why I prefer villages now is because there's no traffic so I can ride my bike for hundreds of kilometers freely at the highest speed I can manage with pretty much nothing to interrupt me(as in kill me). It depends on what you want the most. Some don't mind the awful air and noise pollution, and the vastly higher crime rate as long as they have access to venues that you can find mostly only in cities, though with the internet and delivery services today you don't really need to go anywhere to shop. Manufacturing is usually located outside the city so that's out. If you wanna be a lawyer or work in finance then that makes more sense. How large of a settlement are we talking about anyway? A small/large village, a town, a city or a megalopolis?


 No.86988

>>86954

>Is increasing urbanization one of the underlying reasons for the loss of liberty in general?

Yes. Urbanization brings social division of labour and quicker spread of ideas which is a big + for liberty, and in theory it's harder for a government to "invade" a libertarian urbanized area, but once a government has sank their dirty claws into an urbanized environment, it's nigh impossible to get them out without causing an even bigger wound (which they will then use as an excuse to latch on even harder). The government in urban environments is like a parasite that maims its host if it's ever removed even though it's slowly killing said host from the inside.

Thankfully once an urban environment reaches critical mass, its main occupants will generally go elsewhere over time until only a handful of corporate entities the government has begged to stay are still there (and only because they basically are the government at that point). We can see this right now with people from California and New York moving to Kansas City and Austin. Usually the change isn't so extreme (people & businesses move from the inner city to the outer city counties which are less strict) but in some cases it's the entire state that's corrupt. Even those eventually get shut out by competition from a comparatively freer city down the line.


 No.86990

File: 07cd8711227931b⋯.gif (874.07 KB, 320x192, 5:3, 07cd8711227931b4c85071ed33….gif)

>>86985

Well, I can't speak for other anons but I live in a "small city" (population of about 500,000 people) that's about an hour or two (70-100ish miles depending on where you're going) away from a "big city" (population of a little under 3 million). I've vacationed, worked, and temporarily lived in small cities/large towns & rural areas, but I've never lived in them for more than a month or so. Here's what I can tell you about a few things that I've found that have made my preference in the direction of cities even though I prefer the "atmosphere" of rural places:

>Hours of operation

Decent sized cities have hours of operation of about 6 or 7AM to about 9 or 10PM, and then when those hours are up, you still have access to goods/services, but your options are limited. Virtually everything is open on Saturday (except a few asian places and Jewish places) and most storefronts are open on Sunday. Only the really big cities pretty much operate 24/7. In comparison, in most of the towns I visited the operating hours were basically 10AM to 5PM, and you had to physically visit a service to see if they're open or not since most of them would open late, close early, sometimes decide to close up shop for the day, have strange hours of operation like "closed every other tuesday" etc. If you wanted to do something on a weekend you might as well forget it. The only shops open on weekends were gas stations, the one Wal-Mart in the entire county, that one convenience store owned by the town's token minority, maybe the ma' and pa' video rental service (at reduced store hours), and if you're lucky, MAYBE an auto parts store or auto shop. Sometimes you'd be lucky and find a theater opened from about 4PM to 9PM on Saturdays, but they'd be showing movies that have been out on DVD for like two months now.

>Options

In a decent sized city (but not a big city) I have the option of about 5-15 grocery stores all within about 10 minutes of driving. In a big city I've got more options but I've gotta drive further to reach them, but in a town there's, as I stated above, usually like one Wal-Mart for the entire county (and it's usually the reduced size Wal-Mart). I can kiss my Men's Warehouse goodbye (you have to drive to the city if you want formal-wear), I can kiss my Harbor Freight goodbye, my Bass Pro Shop goodbye, etc. There might be local ma' and pa' equivalents around, but they're only open for like three days a week at specific times, and their prices are almost always jacked up compared to the brand-name store, and their selection is always absolute shit-tier with anything that's not the lowest common denominator being a part you have to custom order from their catalog they get from their vendor (with that costing extra). Don't get me started on online ordering- I can have stuff delivered usually by the first date on a "between X and Y" shipping date for an online purchase. In a town, it takes about a week longer than the later date shown for it to arrive.

>Jobs

Simply put, unless you're from that local town, you're buddies with someone from that town, or you're a government worker, you won't find a job. Period. I can work in either manufacturing or as a technician (if I'm doing a skilled labor job). For manufacturing I usually have one choice and its whatever manufacturing plant the town was built around (usually some sort of sugar refinery or crop processing plant). As a technician my options are almost zero in towns unless I take a government position like wastewater works. I can't start my own technician business because I haven't lived there my whole life so no one will trust me to fix their shit, and if I work for a company, I can get hired, but at wages that even after adjusting for the cost of living in the town and such, are waaaay below market value. At least in cities I have options, even if I choose to live on the outskirts of said city.

I mean there's other shit, but basically at the end of the day I'm not really saving anything living in a town because I have to drive to the city every time I want/need to do something anyways. Yeah the laws are less strict in a town, but you still have shitty neighbors (they're just assholes to you in ways other than partying on a week night at 2 in the morning), you still have shitty municipal governments breathing down your neck (especially if they find out you don't like the government, since your vote might actually matter in the election and they will make your life a living hell to keep you from voting them out of their job), and because you're in a small town, the government and your neighbors can get away with shit that would get them into a ton of trouble in a city (and if you retaliate you're still just as fucked).


 No.86991

>>86990

I feel like I've written this rant before in a different thread about the exact same topic.


 No.87042

File: 7033e430f70e59e⋯.png (286.66 KB, 356x354, 178:177, ouroboros_theride.png)

>>86990

>you still have shitty municipal governments breathing down your neck (especially if they find out you don't like the government, since your vote might actually matter in the election and they will make your life a living hell to keep you from voting them out of their job), and because you're in a small town, the government and your neighbors can get away with shit that would get them into a ton of trouble in a city (and if you retaliate you're still just as fucked).

I believe this is an important perspective to discuss related to seeking a freer life. It's the darker aspect to the situation with small, close-knit communities where everyone knows everyone else. It can inhibit or nurture corruption depending on the people.

I remember there was a veterinarian in a small town in the far western part of my state who lived in a tiny county. There was a very popular and well-liked big shot who was wealthy in some industry and also (because of course) a well-embedded part of the civic government. She didn't give a shit about his social status and reported him for some violation of animal welfare and humane laws. From that day forward she had to be extra careful as long as she still lived in that town because the police would pull her over for a ticket if she so much as drove 2 miles above the posted speed limit.


 No.87060

>>86991

Next time please don't post it, I'm tired of having to read your posts you lying piece of shit


 No.87062

>>87060

>paying this much attention to /liberty/lore

Though he is an urbanite sympathizer so he deserves it.


 No.87064

>>87060

whats he lying about though?


 No.87219

Cities are a cancer - they are where everything good about humanity goes to die. You'd have to be mentally ill to enjoy urban living.


 No.87224

>>87064

Having a family and living on a ranch.




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