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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: a171e4895735096⋯.png (191.96 KB, 445x595, 89:119, ca1.png)

 No.86602

>if people are allowed to opt out of the public school system and buy private education, this will undermine the basis for others to keep enjoying the public system at the same level of quality

How do you counteract this argument /liberty/?

 No.86604

>public system

>quality

>implying

Take it to the QTDDTOT or look up the public good fallacy.


 No.86607

People are already allowed to opt out of the public school system and buy private education. They can also home-school in many places.


 No.86627

Considering the bulk of medium-to-low income people in most areas and the anti-market policy of mandatory education, your proposed situation is only a problem if the private schools become imminently affordable. Many countries allow you to buy private education and both systems tend to perform well or better than purely public systems (except the U.S., because the U.S. is really really desperate to educate everyone to nearly college standards, including and especially unqualified retards.)

>>86607

>already allowed to opt out

No, if you have any significant income in any country you still get your money shoveled into school budgets. You can eject, but you can't "opt out".


 No.86630

>>86627

Aren't there tax credits if you send your children to private schools.


 No.86641

>>86627

too bad private schools cost a ridiculous amount.


 No.86642

File: b273b5f391fc8f6⋯.gif (5.42 MB, 382x480, 191:240, b273b5f391fc8f6b11ac154729….gif)

>>86602

Public school shouldn't exist. Education is death and I wouldn't care less if it were abolished. It doesn't matter if we're talking about grade school or these """private""" colleges (because there is no such thing as a private college in the US outside of name only.) Every subject is a disgrace to the arts they are loosely based on. Postmodern wankoffs rape and sodomize everything society and culture has ever held dear to it in favor of spewing menstrual blood on a canvas and calling it art. English teachers skipping Mark Twain so they can talk about forgettable bullshit for diversity points in an american literature class. History teachers giving you their biased view of history so that they can convince you to tear down more monuments, more art pieces, and more artifacts of another time for political correctness. Even STEM isn't safe from the reaches of these bastards. Art teachers applaud abstract abominations from unskilled so -called "artists" and crucify anyone that dare learn the fundamentals of realism, because let's be honest guys, it's the current year, and drawing naked women is sexist! Even I, as libertarian right as you can get without being an ancap can spot a cesspool of degeneracy a mile away, and that's any given public school or university in the country. Teachers are fucking useless, and contribute absolutely nothing to society. I wouldn't care less if they were all fired and forced to do prostitution work in the street to make ends meet. When you sign up for this, you know you're going to do a dirty job, and once you get your cushy tenure, then your true colors show.

All in all, we're merely following the Prussian school, as it suits our overlords. Children and young adults will continue to endure long hours and repetitious scheduling so that any ambitions that they might have will be destroyed in a matter of time. School in this day and age conditions you to hate reading, and associate learning with boredom so you can know just enough about a few historical celebrities, and no context, as this is a great training ground for selling them voter propaganda. I was fortunate enough to go to a private school during elementary school, and unfortunate enough to have to transition over to public school, a change which was so drastic, my grades plummeted and never recovered. I was so ahead of everyone else, and the new curriculum didn't make any fucking sense. It wasn't until I was graduating high school that I finally understood their game. I'll never forgive these bastards for what they've done to me, and every other American child. I'm now going through a STEM degree, and everything's worse than it ever was, but at the very least I can zone out in class and teach myself math on my own time while producing good results (and the fact that the quality of education is so poor that I opt to do this shows there is something wrong.)


 No.86646

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>86641

Not always. It is most sensible to start an expensive private school than a cheap one most of the time. The quality of the teachers will be much higher, costing "more" upfront. Everyone's already paying taxes even if they do want to send their children to a private school, so anyone at, or below the middle income bracket, is disincentivized to bother spending on both. No reason to focus on catering to anyone but the top earners if you want to bother teaching privately. Tax credits and shitty schooling coupons don't help at all. As long as it comes from taxes it can be lobbied for and the costs can be much higher.


 No.86647

>>86642

There can never be a truly "private" schooling as no matter who teaches they have to teach according to State standards and teach what the State wants to perform on tests the State creates and manages, for a license only they can issue. By allowing the Government the power to enact compulsory "education" we've all allowed it to forcibly take our children and dictate what is truth is via extortion and threat of imprisonment/kidnapping.


 No.86648

File: 9cfd8a1aa458525⋯.jpg (291.46 KB, 1200x1200, 1:1, 1525769153564.jpg)

>>86647

Very much this. Bureaucracy and money laundering only makes the problem worse, and the state comes at you with the big guns if you don't obey.


 No.86650

>>86642

>school shouldn't exist

ftfy


 No.86651

>>86650

I agree, mandatory schooling should not exist, but schools should exist for those who want to go to them.


 No.86652

File: 4c29f7f8a691a3a⋯.gif (1.12 MB, 294x233, 294:233, 4c29f7f8a691a3a2ccd2173835….gif)

>>86602

Abolish public schools, they're only good for disseminating propaganda and destroying the youth anyway.

>>86642

has it right, that shit wastes years of your life. Takes years off you too, for all the stress it puts you though. You might have a few really dedicated teachers in there, but most of the bureaucrats that you're relinquishing your kids to couldn't give a shit about them.

I personally think that any parent worth their salt should take the time out of their day to home-school their kids, and then maybe send them somewhere to learn mathematics if they can't adequately teach that. It makes a world of difference to personally interact with a person to teach them things, rather than lock them in a cell for 8-9 hours a day and then load busywork on them to do at home.

Fucking public education pisses me off. Shit fucked me up.


 No.86657

>>86602

What some folks though a few decades ago. Presumably with the internet, and things such as Wikipedia, school is even less relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deschooling

"Deschooling is a term used by both education philosophers and proponents of alternative education and/or homeschooling, though it refers to different things in each context. It was popularized by Ivan Illich in his 1971 book Deschooling Society.[1][2]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Holt_(educator)

"Holt became disillusioned with the school system after several years of working within it; he became convinced that reform of the school system was not possible and began to advocate homeschooling. He believed that "children who were provided with a rich and stimulating learning environment would learn what they are ready to learn, when they are ready to learn it".[1] Holt believed that children did not need to be coerced into learning; they would do so naturally if given the freedom to follow their own interests and a rich assortment of resources. This line of thought came to be called unschooling.

Holt's Growing Without Schooling (GWS), founded in 1977, was America's first home education newsletter. He also set up John Holt's Bookstore, which made selected books available by mail order. This brought in additional revenue that helped sustain the newsletter, which carried very little advertising.

Holt's sole book on homeschooling, Teach Your Own, was published in 1981. It quickly became the "Bible" of the early homeschooling movement. It was revised by his colleague Patrick Farenga and republished in 2003 by Perseus Books."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Holt

Quotes

The true test of intelligence is not how much we know how to do, but how we behave when we don't know what to do

How Children Fail (1964).

The idea of painless, non-threatening coercion is an illusion. Fear is the inseparable companion of coercion, and its inescapable consequence. If you think it your duty to make children do what you want, whether they will or not, then it follows inexorably that you must make them afraid of what will happen to them if they don’t do what you want.

How Children Fail (1964).

All I am saying in this book can be summed up in two words: Trust Children. Nothing could be more simple, or more difficult. Difficult because to trust children we must first learn to trust ourselves, and most of us were taught as children that we could not be trusted.

How Children Learn (1967).

The anxiety children feel at constantly being tested, their fear of failure, punishment, and disgrace, severely reduces their ability both to perceive and to remember, and drives them away from the material being studied into strategies for fooling teachers into thinking they know what they really don't know.

How Children Learn (1967).

No one is more truly helpless, more completely a victim, than he who can neither choose nor change nor escape his protectors.

Escape from Childhood (1974).

The most important thing any teacher has to learn, not to be learned in any school of education I ever heard of, can be expressed in seven words: Learning is not the product of teaching. Learning is the product of the activity of learners.

Growing Without Schooling magazine, no. 40 (1984).

It is not just power, but impotence, that corrupts people. It gives them the mind and soul of slaves. It makes them indifferent, lazy, cynical, irresponsible, and, above all, stupid.

Escape from Childhood (1974)."


 No.86900

>>86642

>transition over to public school, a change which was so drastic, my grades plummeted and never recovered. I was so ahead of everyone else, and the new curriculum didn't make any fucking sense.

>I'll never forgive these bastards for what they've done to me

ah yes, the brilliant misunderstood victimized slacker.


 No.86933

>>86602

it's already shit, if it gets worse it won't be by much


 No.86950

File: 28ead06020a136c⋯.png (655.34 KB, 960x640, 3:2, 1529767301434.png)

>>86900

Not an argument. I'm making straight As in my STEM degree. The point seemed to have gone right over your fucking head.


 No.87854

Tom woods had a podcast (maybe a year or two ago) with a lefty academic going for some higher level degree who though he could prove that private education wouldn't work worldwide because of cost and such.. His data showed the opposite, that private education was cheap, plentiful, and good quality even in poorer countries..

Modern schooling is a postmodern cultural marxist shitshow anyways, and an expensive one at that (10K + per student in most of the US), the free market would surely do better, or as a compromise vouchers would give leftists their "universality" while allowing schools to get students (money) based on actually doing a decent job as perceived by students/parents.




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