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/liberty/ - Liberty

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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: e759b2bef2731c2⋯.jpeg (10.17 KB, 275x183, 275:183, images.jpeg)

 No.86469

Economists gtf in here. What do you think is going to happen because of the Trump tariffs? If I understand the balance of payments (which I do not), then if the U.S. imports less from a country either:

- less USD outflows, hurting reserve currency status.

- less treasuries are bought, increasing interest rates and the deficit due to increasing payments on the debt.

- there is less asset purchasing by foreigners, aka less FDI.

What do you think will happen?

 No.86486

>>86469

My comments in the Literotica politics forum:

"Trump is a demagogic dictator-wannabe; however Canada shouldn’t retaliate on trade.

Trump is a demagogic dictator-wannabe and many of his supports are idiots; however Canada and others shouldn’t retaliate on trade."

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1478871

You make good points.

The way I figure it, there is no such thing as a trade-deficit. The Americans (and others such as my fellow Canadians) who gave all that hard currency for stuff merely gave up a more fluid commodity for less fluid but subjectively more valuable commodities—otherwise consumers wouldn't have made all those purchases.

Foreigners can't sell as much to Americans. That's less money for them to buy American goods and services. Trump's America saves jobs in non-competitive industries—if they were competitive they wouldn't need protection—but loses jobs elsewhere.

But as Canada survives (nothing I know was said about iron ore, coke, lime, nickel, cobalt, copper, silver, gold, uranium—to supply Trump's new nuke arsenal, aggregates—for the concrete to help build Trump's wall, et al) because it can get pretty self-reliant, so will the US.

America will suffer, but probably not by much. Trump's kool-aid drinkers might not even feel it. Trump's power to fuck up America is still somewhat limited. Might be more limited come November.


 No.86489

File: 4d9b8dfa4a77f24⋯.webm (1.41 MB, 640x360, 16:9, awful.webm)


 No.86495

>>86489

cute vid

But I thought this was the /liberty/ forum, not the /4chan-insiders-posing-as-pro-libertarian-and-like-forum/.

As I said in /leftpol/ before I was banned because I apparently spaced my lines to far apart, I'm not on reddit, nor for that matter Facebook.

You 4channers—or in this case 8channers—are so loyal to your single site, I'm sure it heartens WTF owns this site.


 No.86505

File: c4274f9a57e8b7c⋯.jpg (127.06 KB, 1080x878, 540:439, hhhhehhehhehhehheh.jpg)

>>86486

>my comments on the Literotica politics forum

>Literotica politics forum


 No.86506

File: b6d201992ec2495⋯.mp4 (477.5 KB, 530x650, 53:65, jesus_christ.mp4)

>>86486

>>86505

Holy shit HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


 No.86507

>>86505

I can't tell if he was joking or not.


 No.86512

>>86469

There's no need to look at the fine details first. When access to cheaper goods is denied, everything related to them also goes up in cost and profits go down. The more influential the resource the worse and wider the consequences.

A portion of labor becomes unaffordable and lay offs have to happen. Less American goods are sold or services consumed because of the price increases that have to and will happen. Less people have dollars to spend, nor want to. Less is produced and consumed.


 No.86518

>>86505

>>86506

Yep, and after a few hours on /pol/, /leftpol/, and even here, I say it stacks up. 8chan seems to have lots of yammering about blacks, Jews, Hispanics, conspiracies, the -fag suffixes, in other words, the mostly bullshit topics.

8chan is good for porn, which is my primary interest.

Keep it up with the in-jokes. This is great for change and bitching about stuff is a great way to adapt and cope. It also helps to promote the cause.

>>86512

Though Trump kool-aid will be readily available.


 No.86520

>>86518

>the -fag suffixes

Holy shit go the fuck back to reddit, I say this as an actual homo you don't fucking belong here.


 No.86521

File: df38424da984905⋯.jpg (26.7 KB, 753x798, 251:266, 9e5da61a-90fc-4d25-b239-04….jpg)

>>86518

Yeah, fuck these guys dude, you probably know already but there's a cool chan called 4chan, it's a lot like reddit and there's a lot more people there than here (it's where all the new memes on the internet are made), they aren't racist assholes either so that's great.

I'm also here mostly to fill up my porn folder (/interracial/ has some great stuff!) and to troll the nazis at /pol/ LOL.


 No.86531

File: 7ebb419b4f6cbd3⋯.jpg (8.55 KB, 200x196, 50:49, pls_go.jpg)

>>86518

>yammering about blacks, Jews, Hispanics, conspiracies, the -fag suffixes


 No.86538

>>86533

Didn't the mods ban naked women? I got a one month ban for that shit before.


 No.86540

File: 197e449c172c359⋯.jpg (538.68 KB, 1920x1280, 3:2, 52ebb3909a0901ae28deb7a4fa….jpg)

File: 8c84148313c0c0b⋯.jpg (60.22 KB, 640x870, 64:87, 8c84148313c0c0b5a847ce3a39….jpg)

>>86538

TESTING


 No.86542

>>86533

Proofs?


 No.86547

File: fd4bff90d0f1b62⋯.png (699.8 KB, 833x1210, 833:1210, alt-right Wendy.png)

>>86543

>proof of identity

LEAVE NOW, YOU EGOTISTICAL SAMEFAG

Here's some nice and tolerant images.


 No.86548

File: 4eeae3eeae2a67e⋯.jpg (85.11 KB, 637x540, 637:540, Everyone's famous for some….jpg)

File: 0f5d1ac4510a36a⋯.png (665.74 KB, 914x511, 914:511, current year man.png)

File: 91483bf62158cb7⋯.png (1.24 MB, 1584x1584, 1:1, boer-SA-black-panther.png)

File: a1bcf7fce5393cc⋯.gif (5.14 MB, 450x254, 225:127, das raycis.gif)

File: 488a035e22b8553⋯.gif (2.07 MB, 206x223, 206:223, bejewed.gif)

>>86543


 No.86553

File: 3344f1535e80355⋯.png (47.57 KB, 290x498, 145:249, cancer_doge.png)

>>86543

>I see a lot of bigoted BS here so I feel entitled

>I'll be back to Literotica in a week or so—I'm at my 999th post there and for it, my 1000th, and 1001st, I'm leaving them as such for a few days so thers can see it

>as well as Chyoa, Wikicommons, and Wikipedia, where I also hang out).


 No.86556

/liberty/, you can't even fucking hold a conversation anymore.


 No.86558

>>86486

Trade can negatively affect resource utilization, which is a pretty big deal at the moment. The US, as a country with rapidly increasing population that can't seem to keep up with QOL demand and debt at the same time, has every reason to sacrifice market optimization, such as the eventual repeal of regulation, share increase, or tech that makes utilizing untouched land reserves more probably. Obviously there's an active state component in regulatory repeal, so that's a valid policy and one I'd much prefer, but actively obstructing foreign efficiency is one way to activate your own market, so long as that market has significant local and international demand.

Make no mistake, it is the burning of the future to feed today, but it's a pro-market move in the short term and one that a soon to be ascendant market can make.

As far as consumers, well, they don't really factor in to any of the above, and the resources at play here generally unrelated to consumer goods, at least on the US' side of things. Other countries attempting retaliatory tariffs struggle because American exports tend to be in very high demand and visibly consumer-side.

In any case, you aren't playing with all of the factors (and neither am I for that matter, there's probably a hundred missing elements to this simple description), pretending you have a market totally figured out and everyone you disagree with is dumb/crazy is just silly.

>>86556

I'm not sure if I know any place that could take an incoherent literotica economics savant seriously, but damnit, I'll try. Just for you.


 No.86560

File: 57d59d26e4e42e5⋯.webm (4.5 MB, 640x360, 16:9, A long shot off a short p….webm)

>>86554


 No.86564

>>86556

I've wondered for quite some time why /liberty/ bothers to interect with leftists every day, where they come in with the same tired talking point and one and done shitposts. At least this time you guys didn't take the bait.


 No.86579

>>86564

This.


 No.86583

>>86562

>Are you referring to the US utilizing its natural resources?

Yes. The market has room to grow, as America has ridiculous amounts of land-wealth currently mostly untapped because it's not very efficient to do so

>Presumably with increased population there is an increased tax base.

Wealth generation has nothing to do with population if productively is un-tethered from the lower classes, which it is.

>You talking vendor or buyer, because as Americans buy cheaper foreign goods, American money returns from the foreigners and with money left over from the savings of cheaper foreign goods can mean more investments.

Cheaper foreign goods of the kinds not currently targeted for tariffs. Unless you buy an industrial furnace every other week, the consumer is unlikely to see significant boosts- except for corporations trying to maintain status quo while they work on migrating back to the US. Bad for 5 years, good for 25, bad for the rest of 50 that we'll never touch.

>Agreed, but the arguments by Trump, his basket of dumb fucks, and other protectionists sound stupid.

Nothing I'm saying is too far from a standard protectionist argument, this is the natural conclusion of the argument for foundling industries. Economists are prone to focusing on the businesses (micro), while a nation should be concerned with the resources and overall pie (macro), and protectionism is a way to do that.

>A feminist there also describes me as incoherent. Btw, where am I incoherent?

You addressed an argument about how American goods tend to be consumer-grade by listing consumer-grade goods and then assume the Canadian dollar will move dependent on its imports and not its exports or internal market. Canada is not wholly dependent on the things being tariffed like it is on oil; any drop in value should be too marginal to make trade untenable.

You then went on to link literotica again, talk about a feminist or something, and use the phrase "Trump shillers", which is not English no matter how you stretch it.

It's incoherent.


 No.86590

>>86583

>Yes. The market has room to grow, as America has ridiculous amounts of land-wealth currently mostly untapped because it's not very efficient to do so

Literal fuckbuckets of land. But look who owns it:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Map_of_all_U.S._Federal_Land.jpg


 No.86605

>>86583

>Wealth generation has nothing to do with population if productively is un-tethered from the lower classes, which it is.

Say what? Without lower classes in China, we wouldn't be getting the cheap electronic gadgetry, and without Mexicans the cost of food would be significantly higher. Meanwhile many billionaires have contributed jack-shit to the economy, the Ogre who currently infests the White House arguably being one of them.

>Cheaper foreign goods of the kinds not currently targeted for tariffs.

So why is President Dumbfuck yammering about Canadian milk?

>Unless you buy an industrial furnace every other week, the consumer is unlikely to see significant boosts- except for corporations trying to maintain status quo while they work on migrating back to the US. Bad for 5 years, good for 25, bad for the rest of 50 that we'll never touch.

Ah, so they close the car plants in Oshawa, Oakville, and Brampton (Ontario cities), go back to the US, likely the South. They make cars to export to Canada. Ah, but thanks to Trump, the Canadian dollar has fallen and now the American imports cost a lot and some of the plants closed are re-opened by competitors which sell to Canadians and perhaps other countries we made decent trade agreements with.

>Nothing I'm saying is too far from a standard protectionist argument, this is the natural conclusion of the argument for foundling industries. Economists are prone to focusing on the businesses (micro), while a nation should be concerned with the resources and overall pie (macro), and protectionism is a way to do that.

I see it more of government is more a tool for business. The competitive ones don't need protection. The non-competitive do. Protectionists had (relatively at least) little support from Reagan and the two Bushs and Democrats since Bill. Some thus threw in their lots with Trump and now a few businesses are benefiting. America will produce more steel; aluminum; and coal, clean clean coal (as for global warming, it's a Chinese Hoax, god-emperor said so and he never bullshits or lies).

The problem is, America will have to be its own market, and after consumers experience more price hikes.

>You addressed an argument about how American goods tend to be consumer-grade by listing consumer-grade goods and then assume the Canadian dollar will move dependent on its imports and not its exports or internal market.

Where did I say any of those things? The OP asked what I thought was going to happen with Trump's tariffs. I said OP mostly made good points and said more stuff.

The Canadian dollar will move (i.e. fall) because Americans won't want it as much, because President Dumbass has made it harder for Americans to buy the Canadian goods they would buy with such (Americans will more likely be buying domestic). If traders can't sell the Canadian dollar as much as before, it falls.

That seems to be a result of restrictions of Canadian exports—apparently at least, contrary to your statement. (Why would Trump restrict Canadian imports—i.e. make it harder for Americans to sell us Canadians stuff?)

The kickback comes when American goods coming to Canada require more of those fallen Canadian dollars. Most Canadians will react with, "Fuck it, I used to buy the American product but it's too expensive these days." Tariffs against American goods wouldn't even be necessary; and then there's the antipathy resulting in President Dumbfuck's charm offensive.


 No.86606

File: 5a7a29f3a65d5b2⋯.jpg (152.68 KB, 1200x800, 3:2, gg 100 b014.jpg)

>>86605

(cont)

>Canada is not wholly dependent on the things being tariffed like it is on oil; any drop in value should be too marginal to make trade untenable.

Currently, but as Trudeau has found out the hard way that Trump makes no idle threats—

or perhaps he did, but he played it along, played the nice Canadian, got fucked, and now pissed-off Canadians are tolerating his increasingly stronger reactions against Trump—I wouldn't put that beyond him (Canadians took him for a softy until he won a boxing match against a Senator (not old guy)).

Donald Trump is an asshole.

He sees politeness as a weakness.

Give him an inch and he'll take a mile.

Treat him like the POS he is. He won't like you but he'll respect you—or maybe not—WGAF.

Trudeau is playing his role, but Trump is likely pissing off Canadians and others greatly, and while internet warriors, particularly on 4chan and the like, will say "lol leaf," it will have consequences. Not war. Not a major depression, but America will take a few back steps to being a libertarian ideal.

Mind you, most libertarians, particularly on this board, seem more like bigots.

>You then went on to link literotica again, talk about a feminist or something

I talked about a feminist, huh?

You make it sound like I posted a paragraph or two.

I made an 8-word sentence

>and use the phrase "Trump shillers", which is not English no matter how you stretch it.

Because everyone knows neologisms are rare in English, particularly on the internet. Does thou agree not?

shillaber

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shillaber#English

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-ab&ei=d8olW6aWL8b4jwSvtRo&q=%22trump+shiller%22&oq=%22trump+shiller%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i13i30k1l2j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1l2j0i22i30k1j0i13i5i30k1j0i8i13i30k1l3.17452.21949.0.22266.9.9.0.0.0.0.273.1682.0j3j5.8.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.8.1675...0j0i67k1j0i10i67k1j0i7i30k1j0i7i10i30k1j0i13k1j0i8i7i30k1j0i8i7i10i30k1.0.ymac5Flf6as

"trump shiller"

About 3,370 results (0.44 seconds)

4th result

Trump - Shiller in Chief - GardenWeb


 No.87213

The way this is all accelerating is making me really worried now. Will the USD around the world flood back home and cause massive inflation? Will U.S. treasury rates go so high to make the government default? Will a trade war escalate into a collapse of foreign policy and into a hot war? I do not see any good end here.


 No.87214

>>87213

There was never a way out to begin with. After this comes another "soft" Socialist era. If you consider Lyndon's Great Society to be soft, by any standard other than Marxism.


 No.87235

>>86606

kill yourself faggot


 No.87242

>>87213

Great. More panic. More "happenings." Why is it more certain that tariff ping-pong will result in a trade war and socio-economic collapse rather than a bitter, grumbling renegotiation of present trade deals into something at least marginally less cucked?


 No.87244

>>87242

The debt is only going up and there is no way back other than painful and slow deflation or a sudden default. The situation is at a point where it can only be made worse, but not better off. These tariffs and trade deals, even if they were to all be removed would not be enough to make the recovery bearable. Too much of America's business and its structure is based on unions, monopolies and outsourcing labor.


 No.87246

>>87244

Can you recommend a novice-tier book like Sowell's Basic Economics that can explain to me better why I ought to be Paul posting? Looking into it before I've found rebuttals explaining that the national debt isn't the same as business or household debt or that deflation would be good for consumers and borrowers anyhow. That said, anybody can upload an opinion to the shallow web and the neither the press nor academia are known for treating anything that isn't Keynesian theory with respect.


 No.87250

File: 28521bd12b23179⋯.jpg (1.29 MB, 2426x2676, 1213:1338, Liberty reading guide.jpg)


 No.87852

>>86469

My bet is that the government in other countries will get sick of the hit to their economies that the tariffs are causing, and will negotiate fairer trade deals (i.e. less taxes & tariffs on US goods & vice-versa). This would fulfill the "free trade, but fair trade" that was a trump talking point as well, for anyone keeping track.

>>>87246

>Economics in One Lesson - Hazlitt (180 pages)

>Early US had deflation and strong economic growth, deflation is not the evil that Keynesians say it is.. (See Tom Woods & LVMI for more on that.)

>Most people are too brainwashed to understand, but still good to know this stuff for your own benefit, and for the few who are able to think for themselves.

>Regardless of how close to personal debt national debt is, it is still immoral for adults to dump debt on kids/unborn.. also the fact that incentives matter, incentivizing poverty increases poverty, just as incentivizing alcohol or cigarette consumption would increase smoking and drinking.




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