No.83759
People don't want and don't deserve freedom anyway, so what is the best and most realistic course of action to free our societies as much as possible?
Look, I'm all for imagining utopia and perfect things, I'm all for compare freedom cocks, but we're losing freedom everyday in all the west. I will settle for more freedom than we have today, but what could be done?
No.83764
>People don't want and don't deserve freedom anyway, so what is the best and most realistic course of action to free our societies as much as possible?
To go free society by force, without asking for their permission?
No.83771
>>83759
Black market.
Surprisingly enough, the best way to make people like their freedoms is to give them a product that is convenient and makes their life easier so that the government can take it away.
No.83772
First ask yourself this.
What is freedom?
Then ask yourself whether it is idealistic or not.
Then ask yourself why you would want to pursue a unachievable goal.
No.83773
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>83772
>Then ask yourself why you would want to pursue a unachievable goal.
No.83814
>>83759
why do you care about freedom of strangers? are you a commie or what?
No.83823
>>83764
How does one impose freedom? Monarchy?
No.83833
>>83772
We have. Post something that doesn't make you look like a college sophomore intellectual.
No.83841
>>83823
Free will doesn't exist. Most people are products of their environment and support whatever system is already in place, so it might as well be something that benefits them (like anarcho-capitalism), instead of something horrible (like communism).
Nobody will continually impose freedom or force anyone to be free. It's just that whoever will bring freedom to the people shouldn't ask them whether they want it or not, because again, free will doesn't exist and they will most likely support the status quo.
No.83846
>>83833
Libertarianism is the sin quo none of "college sophomore intellectual" thinking that isn't wholesale left-wing and is not taken seriously by most educated adults, on or off a college campus, for many reasons. Most kids grow out of it much like they grow out of Marxism.
Pulling the maturity card isn't going to work for you, sorry.
No.83883
>>83823
Assuming you can conquer a country and hold on to it, yes. The only way to actually make people free is through a benevolent dictatorship which wields overwhelming power but only uses it to prevent people from violating one another's basic rights. Without that, liberty will inevitably degrade into tyranny over time.
Of course nobody here has the military power to conquer a country, so I think OP's looking for smaller scale options. For instance, writing better and more user friendly encryption software can really fuck over government attempts to restrict freedom of expression.
No.83920
>>83841
>free will doesn't exist
why hold anyone accountable for their actions, then?
No.83922
>>83883
Hans-Adam II, Prince of Liechtenstein, comes to mind
No.83923
>>83846
>Pulling the maturity card isn't going to work for you, sorry.
>t. NEETSoc
>posting on a Malaysian Claymation website
We're all living in glass houses here. Unless you're going to regale us with a tale of how you revealed your powerlevel to your boss and he praised you for such enlightened thinking you're in no position to throw stones yourself.
No.83940
>>83920
If a rat wanders into your home and starts eating your food, you either kill it or physically remove it, you don't blame it for being a fucking rat. That's exactly how I see commies, nazis, jews, third-world immigrants, etc… - I won't hesitate shooting them in the face if they provoke me, but I really don't hate them or blame them for whatever led them to do it.
In the bigger scheme of things, we should completely disregard these human pests, it's only in the state's best interest that we are all flinging shit at each other instead of aiming at the system. It's like running after cockroaches instead of taking out the bags of trash they breed in.
No.84209
>>83940
why do you dislike Jews? Rothbard was a Jew too
No.84217
>>84209
Well it can't be denied that Jews are nation wreckers, I don't really know why though, but all famous Jews had served some kind of purpose in enslaving our societies. Marx defined communism for example, he was trying to find the best system to enslave all of us. Rothbard's role was the opposite, it was to discover what an absolutely free society looks like, though I'm not sure he was trying to do us any favours, I think that in order for them to know the best way farm us like livestock they had to be a bit objective and also know what we would be like in an absolutely free society too.
No.84224
>>84217
Why are you assuming that they're all conspiring together? There's no need to assume that every Jew on the planet is clued in on the grand scheme, or even that there is a grand scheme. It could well be that Jews simply have a strong predilection to act the way they do, independent of one another. /pol/acks like to say that nigs gonna nig, yes? They don't need to be organized about it, it's just how they are. Well, perhaps Jews are gonna jew. They have a cultural and biological tendency to jew, instead of a grand conspiracy, and Rothbard just happened to be on the tail end of the bell curve, one of the few who doesn't identify with the typical traits of his people.
No.84256
>>84224
>>84217
Hayek and Friedman were both Jews too. Keynes was a gentile. Jews tend to flock to what start off as extreme or fringe intellectual movements because this is what happens to a lot of well educated and high IQ people. Today we'd just call it "sperging," but normies don't tend to go for either Fabian Socialism or Anarcho-Capitalism. Jews weren't at all uncommon among fascist movements in the 1920s. If German national socialism hadn't been anti-semitic, then fascism as a whole wouldn't be controversial among Jewish intellectuals.
Also the typical failing here is only seeing Jews behaving in this manner and attributing it to something uniquely Jewish. They are traits common to middleman minority groups throughout the world among which Jews are the most prominent in Europe and North America. The same accusations and attitudes, however, occur towards the Lebanese in West Africa, the Gujarati Indians in East Africa, the Igbo in North Africa, the Azerbaijanis, the Armenians in the Mediterranean, the Greeks in the Middle East, Germans in Russia, Koreans in Japan, Japanese in South America (especially Brazil) and more.
Probably the best comparison between hemispheres can be drawn with the overseas Han Chinese. Back in 2010-2011 when /pol/ was less trash and more ideologically diverse I used to see plenty of threads off peak hours from people in SEA countries whining about how the Chinese are the Jews of the East. You can even draw striking parallels in that the Chinese and Jews in diaspora are far wealthier, more successful, and intelligent than their relatives on average back in their homelands.
No.84267
>>84217
nationalism ought to be wrecked
No.87910
Start your own communities (emotional communities, don't have to be in the same exact location), trade with and support each other instead of statists when possible (with full liability and private mediation instead of gov't courts in case of disputes), and create the reality you seek, as best you can. Remove toxic or rule-breaking people as they arise.
Do this competently and you will prosper and show the superiority of libertarian principles to outsiders, probably the best bet even if you have zero influence over state or federal government.
No.87991
>>83759
>what is the best and most realistic course of action to free our societies as much as possible?
Well get rid of the people who think that people don't want and don't deserve freedom.
End capitalism and monetizim.
There.
Simple solution, hard to get there, I admit, but that will snowball into a better world. Not a perfect world, but a free world. It would literally rewire everyone's head if we did this.
Do. with. out. money.
That part is actually easy. Getting people to do it to begin with not so much.
No.88079
>>87991
>End capitalism
We want to free society, not enslave it.
No.88090
>>88079
Having to "earn a living" is a ransom for your freedom. Your rental fees for the weekend and holidays.
"Free markets" enslave people.
No.88186
>>88090
You don't have to earn a living in capitalism. But in order to acquire things you have to produce them first. This is all voluntary and hence not slavery.
No.88193
>>88090
I suppose you think oxygen is enslaving you by holding your life ransom if you don't breathe it.
No.88213
>>88090
Nobody owes you free food, housing, or your survival. If you don't want rental fees, feel free to buy your own land.
No.88217
File: ffc03219412fd4a⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 283.79 KB, 1000x1333, 1000:1333, 02fed58b6659fd8bbf0bb47913….jpg)
>>83759
Contestant Separatism is the only long-term solution for humanity. A united humanity is weak. A fractious humanity is strong.
No.88218
File: 196cd8daf72a9ad⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 549.97 KB, 813x1150, 813:1150, 7b835bbdf718017605610f178d….jpg)
>>88217
<Constant not contestant lol
No.88219
File: adeecee44b149be⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 135.21 KB, 960x544, 30:17, 95e3b33f997d357407340f3dde….jpg)
>>88213
>Or to revolt against your masters.
>Successful revolutionaries are natural aristocrats.
No.88308
>>88186
>You don't have to earn a living in capitalism.
You don't understand what capitalism is.
>But in order to acquire things you have to produce them first
I'm not saying people wont work to produce that which we need. The current sickly system produces tons of things we don't need at a horrendous cost of real proportions.
>>88193
Is there something you're not getting? Your sarcasm isn't helping.
>>88213
Food grows out of the land for free. Really.
Some people even practice a ritual called "gift-giving" or "sharing". There's no money involved.
>>88217
>>88218
>Tiddies
:)~
No.88317
>>88308
>You don't understand what capitalism is.
Look at this shitposter, telling ancaps what is capitalism.
>The current sickly system produces tons of things we don't need at a horrendous cost of real proportions.
Oh, rly? Who the fuck are you to tell people what they need? I'm so fucking tired of this "we" or "society" shit. Dehumanization my ass.
>Some people even practice a ritual called "gift-giving" or "sharing".
Gift system is extremely unreliable and can only work with people who closely know each other and interact constantly. If you try to build one with more than 100 people in it it will fall off, like it did in multiple communist social experiments.
>There's no money involved.
Look, if you are gonna shitpost here, at least learn what money is, you are reaching close to impossible levels of autism .
No.88326
>>88308
>You don't understand what capitalism is.
Presumptive, much?
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp
>The current sickly system produces tons of things we don't need
1. Products of our current system fulfill wants not just needs.
2. Our system is not completely capitalistic i.e. many capital goods are either in direct or indirect control by states.
>Food grows out of the land for free
No, there are costs to time, energy, and opportunity, as well as risks to allocating resources to sustainable food production.
>Some people even practice a ritual called "gift-giving" or "sharing"
Gift economies are limited by Dunbar's number.
No.88336
No.88338
>>88317
>Who the fuck are you to tell people what they need?
<Is unaware of waste
Dismissed.
>>88326
You sound like the old Christians. So thoroughly convinced there can't be any other way. You are a result of this sickly system. I wonder why you hand out on a board called liberty. An ironic name I suppose.
No.88340
>>88338
>Is unaware of waste
The real waste is time spent by people here on an illiterate nigger you are.
>You sound like the old Christians.
Ad hominem. Next time try hiding it behind peseudo arguments, shill.
No.88341
>>88340
>Molymeme
>Provides no arguments, much less solutions for OP
No.88343
>>88341
>Provides no arguments
"dismissed" is not an argument
>much less solutions for OP
it has plenty of answers already
>bitching about capitalism
>nigger
In this case i'm pretty sure you live better than you should, parasite.
No.88348
>>88341
>whines about capitalism
>can't provide any solutions besides smug memes and comebacks
You have two boards. Fuck off, nigger.
No.88353
>>88338
>So thoroughly convinced there can't be any other way.
Nowhere have I sated or implied this.
No.88361
P H Y S I C A L R E M O V A L O F C O M M I E S
No.88362
Freedom requires a minimum economic status in society, this much is certain. An old example is that to be free or truly middle-class you needed to own your residence outright and have enough land to be able to grow enough food to sustain yourself. Ancient Athenian democracy was only for men who owned above a certain amount of land.
If you took all the assets of a country and placed them under the national corporation (government) and then gave each citizen a at birth a Share that cannot be sold, divided, or given, and that dies with the citizen, you could approximate true democracy (on the Athenian model) at least from an economic stakeholder standpoint. The more similar (especially in interests) the voters are the more successful democracy of any kind, will be.
No.88363
>>88362
The national corporation could then lease/rent and divide the revenue (minus defense/boarder control and the judiciary/police) equally between the citizen-shareholders. This would guarantee a minimum economic standard for all citizens while allowing for entrepreneurship.
>>88348
Mixed-market is clearly superior. End-game capitalism just crowns a King via monopoly.
No.88365
>>88363
>End-game capitalism just crowns a King via monopoly.
This is literally the dumbest shit you could say on this board.
No.88367
>>88365
How so?
Money makes more money exponentially.
Cornering the market is the natural end result of the 'free market,' unless you have anti-monopoly laws.
Saying X is stupid without an argument can just be ignored.
No.88371
>>88343
>parasite.
>Implying I'm one of the owner class
>>88348
My solution is to do without money. I read a ton of history and sociopolitical books. I know what the word "liberty" means and took this place for a board that wasn't dealing with ironies.
>>88361
You cannot kill an idea without killing everyone. Which appears to be their intention. Ever since the labor surplus they've been making moves to throw away more and more of us like so much soiled napkins.
But, go back to sleep, my soggy headed Merricans
No.88372
>>88367
Prove that cornering the market is the natural end result of the free market. You can assert it all day but everyone else can just as easily assert that inefficiency grows as a firm does and therefore smaller more efficient firms are certain to spawn and eat away market share, thus preventing monopolies from ever naturally forming.
>>88343
Don't reply to cancerous namefags. They're never worth talking to, they just live to feel smug while being wrong.
No.88373
>>88372
>They're never worth talking to, they just live to feel smug while being wrong.
<In the same post:
>Prove that cornering the market is the natural end result of the free market. You can assert it all day but everyone else can just as easily assert that inefficiency grows as a firm does and therefore smaller more efficient firms are certain to spawn and eat away market share, thus preventing monopolies from ever naturally forming.
No.88378
>>88372
>everyone else can just as easily assert that inefficiency grows as a firm does and therefore smaller more efficient firms are certain to spawn and eat away market share, thus preventing monopolies from ever naturally forming.
…I mean, the instant I project even a single dollar more in sales revenue than I would have to pay a private military company, you're getting shot if you try to enter the market.
…but, yeah. "Free."
No.88393
>>88378
>the instant I project even a single dollar more in sales revenue than I would have to pay a private military company, you're getting shot if you try to enter the market.
LMAO. That's not even how it works with the state interfering with the economy and creating monopolies all the freaking time.
Do you know what a logical fallacy is? Cause that's exactly what you just made. You created a situation that not only is not the rule, it's not even the exception of the rule.
Unless you have something like Venezuela, where the government just steals private property on an even bigger scale than usual and monopolize everything (for the common good, as always :^) ), people will create competition, prices will lower and profits go up.
That is the whole point of having a company to begin with: profit (which allows better life standards). If people where killed whenever they made profit, there would be no profit margin in history and we would still be living in huts and caves.
Monopolies and corporations cannot sustain their own existence in a free market. They exist because of their symbiotic relationship with the state.
Comeback when you have an argument.
No.88405
>>88393
>You created a situation that not only is not the rule
>even a single dollar more
I mean, econ has rules…
>Unless you have something like Venezuela
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/10/30/pizza-crusade-dominos-managers-charged-with-burning-down-rival-papa-johns-store/
Venezuela
(it owns pizza hut in this guy's mind)
One. Single. Dollar.