/liberty/ - Liberty

>attack the Feburary revolution.

>talk about how you want to implement capitalism

>krondstat everyone domestically.

>'democratic centralism' your way through murdering leftists overseas.

>run everything on the truck system of london capitalism, backing up your declarations that you intend to implement capitalism

>am CEO

>some idiots think capitalism can work better "next time."

>>80665

>Collective farming and production quotas is capitalism

>The Soviets are now capitalist

Well, in that case, I am not an anarchocapitalist. I am now an anarchothingyist. I firmly believe that we should do away with the terrors of capitalism by banning all regulations, privatizing the oceans, and declaring everyones right to self-ownership and private property inviolable.

>>80663

>lots of things that didn't happen but it sounds good to the historically and economically illiterate.

>>80725

>slavery is capitalist

Definitely profitable for the capitalist class and thus perpertuated by them

>imperialism is capitalist

Yes, imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism, where capital has centralized enough for businesses to manipulate on such a grand scale.

>we must give a definition of imperialism that will include the following five of its basic features:

>(1) the concentration of production and capital has developed to such a high stage that it has created monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life; (2) the merging of bank capital with industrial capital, and the creation, on the basis of this “finance capital”, of a financial oligarchy; (3) the export of capital as distinguished from the export of commodities acquires exceptional importance; (4) the formation of international monopolist capitalist associations which share the world among themselves, and (5) the territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers is completed. Imperialism is capitalism at that stage of development at which the dominance of monopolies and finance capital is established; in which the export of capital has acquired pronounced importance; in which the division of the world among the international trusts has begun, in which the division of all territories of the globe among the biggest capitalist powers has been completed.

t. Lenin

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch07.htm

>the people's republic of china is capitalist

Well that goes without saying.

>>80690

> I firmly believe that we should do away with the terrors of capitalism by banning all regulation

This would be enough to count you firmly in the anticapitalist left.

Speaking of which, why is it so hard to try to get 'ancaps' to care about subverting and bypassing laws surrounding buying and selling on the street? It's like giving a cat a bath, every time I've tried…

>>80736

>subverting and bypassing laws surrounding buying and selling on the street?

You mean like agorism?

>>80739

Yeah, actually, though I've more focus on "sometimes I'm NOT trying to get arrested" than agorism sometimes does. Tricks, workarounds, means.

…sadly, a lot of "libertarians" only care about murdering people and glorifying the heirarchy which KEEPS people from buying and selling. It's not everything - I've talked to a few - but there is way too much "u not 1337 like the boss with a regulatory monopoly" creeping around.

Best I've got so far is "borrowing" a parking lot. They haven't kicked you off yet, and you're not on the street but rather commercially-zoned land. Only works for the actual transaction, though. Browsing is still hard.

>>80750

Interesting, is there more where I can learn about this?

>>80752

Unfortunately, most of it is from bizzare anti-ML leftist (such as agorism) chatrooms. Many will bitch about police enforcement of capital disparity - which, at the shopkeep level, is 100% regulation. Less will go beyond bitching.

So, all the sites I know of that try to get street buying and selling for the common folk, are also in development and unpublished. :(

Non-tor-users can start a brainstorming thread here. I can't, though.

~sigh~ faux-libertarians, tankies… and the rest of us. It's one big problem, I fear.

>>80732

>Definitely profitable for the capitalist class and thus perpertuated by them

Slavery violates the NAP.

>>82073

Does killing yourself also violate the NAP? If not then no way enslaving yourself so your wife can pay her medical bills is a NAP violation.

>>80732

>Well that goes without saying.

Chinese Socialism is the only communism to ever work.

>>82087

>Does killing yourself also violate the NAP?

There's no act of aggression, all participants are willing and have the ability to consent.

>>82300

Great! Then slavery is fine. I consent to be a slave so my wife can pay her medical bills.

>>82302

That doesn't really work, because you can't wholly give away your self-ownership. At best you could write up a contract for indentured servitude but there still need to be exit clauses.

>>82304

>Contacts must have an exit clause

Just replace slavery in your mind with the term "permanent indentured servitude". The idea that you have to have an exit clause is bullshit. If I agree to never say the word "apple" again for 1000 dollars must there be an exit clause?

>>82304

>you can't wholly give away your self-ownership

I can chop off my arm. I could cut my brain in half. All kinds of things I can do to limit myself. Can I be a slave if I have a 65IQ? There are non humans with higher IQ than that.

>>82313

>Anything with any negative results is not real libertarianism

>Anything with any negative results in not real communism

>>82316

>Anything with any negative results is not real libertarianism

Other systems could also produce positive results, but they also cause many problems that would have been easily solved with libertarianism.

>Anything with any negative results in not real communism

The positive results that come from communism are always from not-real-communism.

>>80732

>Definitely profitable for the capitalist class and thus perpertuated by them

The communist is saying that the capitalists are the ones forcing people to work for no reward, that's a fucking laugh.

>Yes, imperialism is the monopoly stage of capitalism, where capital has centralized enough for businesses to manipulate on such a grand scale.

Capitalism defined as "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state". Imperialism is defined as "a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force". Please, explain the statement you've made in a way that doesn't make it sound like you're vomiting up buzzwords.

>>82509

Whether you like it or not, the communists were the ones who coined the terms capitalism and imperialism. You vomiting up shitty definitions does not change this fact. If you want to talk about imperialism, you use the definitions we make, or you come up with your own word to explain this phenomenon.

>>82530

>A and B are related

>Well, A is defined as this in the dictionary, and B is defined as that, and those definitions are completely unrelated, so what's your reasoning?

>Whether you like it or not, my group came up with the terms A and B and we use a completely different definition that I'm not going to explain but totally means I'm right.

Mate, if you're using words in a completely different way to how they're defined in the fucking dictionary, you shouldn't be so surprised when people don't understand what you're trying to say. If I decided that "sandwich" is defined as "a cup full of water", people are going to be confused when I give them a cup full of water when they ask for a sandwich. Furthermore, when they ask me "I asked you for a sandwich and you gave me this" they aren't going to be satisfied with "yeah well it means something different to me and my group came up with the word first so deal with it".

So, if your key words mean entirely different things to you than everybody else, maybe you should use different words. Or, if not, maybe fucking clarify what you actually mean instead of just sitting there all smug like. Because, if "capitalism" and "imperialism" actually don't at all mean what everyone fucking else uses them for, how about telling me what the fuck they mean instead of demanding I jump through your flaming hoops of bullshit?

>>82534

I included a much better definition from the book 'Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism'.

>>82530

>he communists were the ones who coined the terms capitalism and imperialism

Proof?

>>82567

It's true and they meant it as a slur, it's just too bad it worked so fucking amazing that it transformed the planet and brought 2000% of humanity out of poverty (population kept growing).

>>80663

At least I still got my 5 year plan.

>>82576

Remove the communist empires of the USSR and China from the equation and see how "2000% out of poverty and population growth" still applies. I mean, India was largely on the same level 1950 as it was 1850, Marx said it would develop productive forces, but it didn't. He was wrong on this.

>>83655

>communist kerala

wat?

>>82530

>I don't like your definitions because they don't suit my agenda; I prefer my fringe definitions because they do.

He gave you the dictionary definitions of those words; definitions which have been agreed upon by a global community of academics and scholars who specialise in precise meaning. and you gave him autism in return.

>Communists came up with those words so I, as a Communist, get to arbitrarily say what they mean and you have to abide by it!

Not how a debate functions even if this farcical assertion were true (which it isn't). I know you're used to an echo chamber, but try to not be so afraid of opposing viewpoints. As a Communist, you're meant to engage in the dialectic after all :^)

>>82538

>'Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism'

>Imperialism is the same thing as Capitalism because I've altered the commonly accepted meaning of the word to instead refer to Capitalistic monopolies :)

Compelling. Profound.

>>85445

Anon, please, no bumping threads regarding commies.

The Soviet Union was better than the Russian Empire. If you think capitalists had it "good" in the Russian Empire then you are just misinformed.

>>86163

Imagine being so deluded, ignorant and utterly retarded that you unironically think some inbred warmongering Tsar who got cucked daily by an unwashed peasant wizard was a better leader than ANY commie that subsequently took power.

>>86158

The USSR certainly had more killed.

>>86158

>>80717

Communism is haram.

Communism denies one the right to worship Allah.

Khomeini opposed both the West and the USSR.

>>80725

If you listened to the CBC up here in Canada, we only have iPhones, Facebook, and Google.

>>83628

China's 3x the size of India, USSR about 7x. India's problems were and are somewhat transparent. Commies are censorious.

>>85445

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

Etymology

The Hollandische Mercurius uses "capitalists" in 1633 and 1654 to refer to owners of capital.[23]:234

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capitalism

Borrowed from French capitalisme (“the condition of one who is rich”)

>>82530

above post

>>90548

>being pround of having to work

pfff