/liberty/ - Liberty

>>71107

Agorism is not such a bad idea, but it can't stand on its own. Socialist countries tend to develop flourishing black markets and yet they don't die from that. You could say that the black markets keep these countries alive, but I find that a bit cynical. They also give their citizens access to such things as razorblades, quality food, and foreign media. Who are we to say that a total collapse of living standards is better than ten years of slavery? We're talking about potentially unbearable conditions here, and we don't know for sure if the economy will bounce back.

If everyone started dealing under the table, then the government would look like idiots or bad guys, people would have higher living standards, but the government probably wouldn't collapse or even significantly roll back. At the very least, you need some ideological change to go along with it, and even then, the state will not want to be abolished. Unless it wants to be, in which case - jackpot. It's not unheard of for statesmen to completely overhaul the constitution with no ulterior motive.

tl;dr it's complicated. No wonder, because life is complicated, too.

>>71108

If everyone is working under the table, the state doesn't get taxes. If they can't get taxes, then it makes efforts to feed and cloth their personal henchmen extremely difficult. E.G. the state ends up becoming the main villain to blame for bad conditions, or they collapse from inability to prevent people from making their conditions better.

>>71107

>Why do agorists believe that feeding organized crime will somehow weaken the state?

I myself am not an agorist and know very little on the matter, but as far as I know the purpose is more or less to avoid taxes and do trade that way as opposed to actually taking down the state (it's a baby step at best). There's actually a lot of services on the black market that really are just normal things that you'd get on the normal market (often for cheaper), but I wouldn't contest the claim that a good number of people in organized crime sell these services.

>>71107

agorists are against red market

>>71113

You mean blue.

>>71107

The State and the mafia are often rivals as it is in every monopolist cartel. Individuals can't resist secretly undercutting the other members until it finally collapses on its own. You can't tell when it will happen, but you can accelerate the process.

>>71110

When I use the term "everyone" I'm referring to the chain reaction. In reality we're talking about 3% of the population not paying taxes but still working would be enough to collapse the US federal government.

If you grant that taxes are theft and the general force of government falls back upon their related force of arms, how can you not understand agorists? They may or may not be trading in a market with different thieves, but they trade in a market that at least appears to thieve them less.

A proper society ought to be appealing enough to draw agorists back in, or at least keep them close enough to have some use of.

>>71154

How is extortion meaningfully different from taxes? Stop romanticising black markets, they are not any more free than the regular ones.

>>71157

That's because they can and do use inflation to make up the difference in lost revenue. Agorism alone isn't enough, you have to be educating and doing you damnedest to force sound money down the government's throat.

>>71115

blue because of uniforms' colour?