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/liberty/ - Liberty

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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 7ed2f3f465fc9d8⋯.jpg (58.03 KB, 640x1002, 320:501, P-1494915427-Capitalism-64….jpg)

 No.67830

>Muh "Capitalism is destroying the Earth"

>Globalization is destroying indigenous identity

>Capitalism requires endless growth

>Capitalism killed the First Americans

>Capitalism is built on racism

What are some of the worst anti-capitalist memes and how would you debunk them?

 No.67831

>>67830

>Muh "Capitalism is destroying the Earth"

The worst environmental damage in the world was caused by socialist/communist governments.

>Globalization is destroying indigenous identity

If your 'group identity' is so weak that it falls over like a house of cards to foreigners bringing manufacturing jobs to your country and in turn improving your standard of living by allowing you to survive without having to work rice fields for 12 hours a day then it was shit to begin with.

>Capitalism requires endless growth

Wat

>Capitalism killed the First Americans

No, the 'First Americans' were killed by the people who were killed by the people who were killed by the people who were killed by the people who we refer to today as the Native American Indians.

>Capitalism is built on racism

Capitalism doesn't care about if you are white, black, or yellow, male or female, straight or gay. The only colour capitalism cares about is green.


 No.67838

>Muh "Capitalism is destroying the Earth"

this is true

>Globalization is destroying indigenous identity

true

>Capitalism requires endless growth

true

>Capitalism killed the First Americans

no

>Capitalism is built on racism

no

>>67831

>The worst environmental damage in the world was caused by socialist/communist governments.

whataboutism, doesn't change anything

>it was shit to begin with.

true but it is also true for "Western" and traditional values, libertarians who think capitalism will somehow make people conservative (like Hans-Hermann Holocaust Hoppe) are delusional


 No.67840

File: afa2bfa5ad210db⋯.jpg (67.87 KB, 850x400, 17:8, capitalismendlessgrowth.jpg)

File: db091b063b813bd⋯.jpg (46.08 KB, 850x400, 17:8, capitalismwithoutracism.jpg)

>>67831

Yeah, they were full of shit


 No.67845

>>67830

>Capitalism requires endless growth

I never understood that one. You can have a free market and a stagnant material standard of living, if people simply decide that their time is better invested in going to church and playing with their kids. Firms will just compete by being more laid back and friendly than the competition, people will work four hours a day and not demand all the newest gimmicks, and while we won't see hover cars any time soon, this world might be just as good to live in, and it will be just as economically free.

If a system requires endless growth, it's democracy. It requires that the market endlessly grow so that politicans can enact more and more public programs, start wars, and redistribute property. The free economy is the host that the parasitic state feasts on, and as that parasite constantly grows, so must the economy.

>>67838

>libertarians who think capitalism will somehow make people conservative (like Hans-Hermann Holocaust Hoppe) are delusional

Hoppe chose too strong words, as he as a tendency to do (sadly shared by Block), but he was mostly right. A system that condemns plunder, rewards responsibility, and punishes irresponsibility, and is based on the notions of liberty and human dignity, will tend to breed people with a conservative spirit. It's a tendency, of course, one that can be offset by degeneracy, but also amplified by moral and spiritual education. That's why I always say that anarchocapitalism is not the full answer to the question of what kind of world I want to live in.


 No.67855

>>67830

>worst anti-capitalist memes

>Capitalism means poor people die on the street

>Capitalismmeans each man for himself, which means backstabbing x2000

>Capitalism means immorality

>Capitalism means the top 1% has 99% of the money and the top 1% of THAT top 1% has 99% of THAT money.

>Capitalism causes food shortages

>Capitalism leads to food wastage

>Capitalism means crying babies

>Capitalism is held up by the poorest of people and literally everyone above them are managers (who do no """work""")

>Capitalism doesn't reward muh "surplus" value

>The free market doesn't work, "The Invisible Hand" is literally propaganda, not "complex"

>Capitalism = Cronyism


 No.67856

File: 954c9fa2e147a25⋯.jpg (139.73 KB, 962x655, 962:655, laffing whoors.jpg)

>>67830

>What are some of the worst anti-capitalist memes and how would you debunk them?

I can't think of many but right off the bat this is the one that comes to mind;

> Capitalism REQUIRES government

I never particularly understood this one, it's an old one but not a particularly good or engaging one. It's essentially the same as saying "Businesses NEED the mob", the mob (which shares most if not all the same general functional characteristics with governments) uses force to hinder these businesses and force them to pay for their own exploits. So the government protects you from thievery by being thieves themselves? It's the equivalent of saying 'peace requires violence', it's just not correct by any stretch of the imagination and is comparable to 1984-tier thought.

One amusing one that I found in this thread though.

>>67840

> You can't have capitalism without racism

> mfw

Well, I suppose it is pretty racist to tell Jamall to essentially not be a nigger by not robbing other people's property.


 No.67858

>>67845

>A system that condemns plunder, rewards responsibility, and punishes irresponsibility, and is based on the notions of liberty and human dignity

Which system is this, lol?


 No.67861

File: 0217f4de93d832d⋯.jpg (111.55 KB, 640x480, 4:3, 85452122.jpg)

>>67830

Capitalism is simultaneously…

<Feudalism

<Fascism

<Monarchy

<Republicanism

<Every form of socialism that doesn't end well

<The existence of a state

<The lack of an existence of a state

<Laissez Faire Markets

<Slavery

<Mixed Economies

<Hitler

<etc.

When Socialists and their ilk can't even come up with a proper boogeyman past "anything that isn't communism" it's hard to take them seriously. Capitalism is to Lefty faggots as ZOG is to NEETSocs.

>What are some of the worst anti-capitalist memes

The Left can't meme.

>and how would you debunk them?

If you egg them on enough, lefties always end up tripping over their own claims of what Capitalism is. If they aren't just shitposting then asking them to clarify definitions or events either triggers them or gets them into a paradox that you can use against them. Don't answer questions as this will put you on the defense with a Leftist. Ask a question to any question.


 No.67863

>>67858

Laissez-faire capitalism, of course. Although only those of pure heart can see this.

>>67861

>Don't answer questions as this will put you on the defense with a Leftist.

You can achieve the same effect if you immediately set out to destroy them. One large post where you remind them of all the shortcomings of Marxism, the bourgeois origin of most communist leaders and the terrible effects of their revolutions and policies and then they will be too busy to deal with all these (true) charges to switch the topic to working conditions in iPhone factories.

One of the things that's easiest to stumble over is to try and argue with them over the fine details of their ideology. That's just something you don't do, lest they try to impress you with sixteen theories of value and a fourty-state-model of history, all derived from no consistent methodology at all.


 No.67865

File: 5886c0bc986a432⋯.png (153.99 KB, 385x344, 385:344, 5886c0bc986a432f0d2e9799d7….png)

>>67863

>>67831

>>67838

>>67840

>>67845

>>67855

>All of this circlejerking, baseless claims and strawmen

Liberty never stop being autistic.


 No.67866

>>67865

>M-muh circlejerk

Agreeing with one another inbetween indulging your pathetic attempts at selling us the newest paper by Cottrell and Cockshit is not circlejerking, my economically illiterate friend.


 No.67879

>>67865

Until you point how they're baseless all you have is a weebfag's shitpost.


 No.67884

File: ee34d6e35b35daf⋯.jpg (15.4 KB, 597x350, 597:350, pro_gun_far_left_by_americ….jpg)

>>67866

I'm tired of arguing with you pieces of shit.


 No.67885

>>67884

You're doing it right now, albeit poorly.


 No.67887

File: 942ab4431587833⋯.png (216.18 KB, 626x547, 626:547, 942ab44315878339284f34d54b….png)

>anti capitalist


 No.67889

File: bd29d3dba407c97⋯.webm (7.34 MB, 640x360, 16:9, 1505435685004.webm)

>destroying indigenous identity


 No.67912

File: c335b75d595e757⋯.jpg (95.97 KB, 640x853, 640:853, c335b75d595e75716b56cc360b….jpg)

>>67830

>Muh "Capitalism is destroying the Earth"

May as well be true. Wars and environmental damage have already been disastrous. Renewable energy isn't developed purely out of a profit motive, it requires massive subsidies from the government for corporations to do so.

>Globalization is destroying indigenous identity

That's a /pol/ argument, but it holds true to a certain degree. Global liberalism as a universal ideology, free market capitalism as the universal global system which is pushed to be implemented in all the corners of the planet come with a massive commodification of culture. It's literally what the Frankfurt School wrote about. So while it doesn't physically destroy cultures, it neuters them and destroys their souls. One visit of the Oktoberfest in Munich or the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona should convince you that this has happened with European cultures already.

>Capitalism requires endless growth

True. When the rate of profit reaches zero, there will be no more investments, start-ups or entrepreneurs. You'd literally have to wait for a war or a similar catastrophe to get the business cycle running again. There is not such a thing as "stagnant" capitalism - if there are no profits, nobody is going to sell you something.

>Capitalism killed the First Americans

Kind of true. White settler bought off land from people who didn't have a concept of modern private property and then deported them. While that's not fully developed capitalism it sure is capitalistic. The feudal way of doing it would have been to make them swear an of fealty and make them serfs. But that's not what happened. I mean, look at Hawaii: Mark Zuckerberg wants to ban native Hawaiians from accessing his 5 miles of private beach. "Not real capitalism"? Come on guys…

>Capitalism is built on racism

No, but there is a connection. Capitalism as an economic base requires a superstructure to function. Since capitalism inevitably produces misery somewhere, ideological justifications for these miserable shitholes are needed. Have a brief look on /pol/ and see what their explanation is for the economic failure of African nations: "lmao niggers". So while it's not true in an absolutist sense, racism can be one of the ideological superstructures of capitalism in order for it to work.


 No.67914

File: 3676772217b92ba⋯.jpg (85.85 KB, 1300x1300, 1:1, 15714154-Leider-smiley-Dar….jpg)

>>67884

I'm sorry that you're upset.


 No.67917

>Muh "Capitalism is destroying the Earth"

True in the sense that capitalism leads to economic growth and economic growth is often bad for the environment. But capitalism can exist alongside regulations, and regulations have kept things like water and air pollution at least not terrible.

>Globalization is destroying indigenous identity

Seems true to me in the sense that people's lives are likely to become more similar. The real question is how far this implies a destruction of bonds between people and their immediate communities (just because people in another country are like us, now we don't bond with each other?)

>Capitalism requires endless growth

Not true, if there was no more profitable investment banks could just put money in safes and the world would keep turning.

>Capitalism killed the First Americans

Seems quite absurd. People wanted to expand and didn't like tribes getting in the way and competing for buffalo.


 No.67918

>>67917

>But capitalism can exist alongside regulations, and regulations have kept things like water and air pollution at least not terrible.

That these regulations were necessary in the first place was because some judges and legislators decided that it was a splendid idea not to hold manufacturers accountable for the smogs they created. There used to be a time when it was seen as a property violation if the dust from your factories settled on someones house, and he had a right to shut you down unless you stop the emissions. For the sake of the "greater good", this simple rule was then changed, which invited exactly the problems that we are struggling with to this day.


 No.67920

>>67917

>Not true, if there was no more profitable investment banks could just put money in safes and the world would keep turning

This is ridiculous, if there was no profit motive nobody would run businesses anymore. There is an observable theoretical and practical correlation between falling profit rates and failing businesses. The average profit margin was humongous in the 19th century, and is now miniscule compared to that, accordingly, over 90% of all start-ups these days fail. When Was the last time you saw small businesses thrive?


 No.67926

>>67920

They would still have to sell things to pay their costs. If you mean they would make zero profit even after putting all their labour in then they would probably stop running the business and go elsewhere, sure. But idk why it would get to that point.


 No.67927

>>67918

I wouldn't want to shut down factories just for making a tiny amount of pollution either.


 No.67930

File: c103a36080783c9⋯.jpg (80.39 KB, 960x875, 192:175, Look Mittens.jpg)

>>67912

>May as well be true. Wars and environmental damage have already been disastrous

> Government action such as war is capitalism

I was fairly certain that this was something that didn't need much explanation, but I suppose not. Along with this was a bit of bitter irony that struck while reading the rest of your posts.

> That flag

> That image.

You are aware that the USSR, China and other Communist/Socialist countries got into just as many, if not more wars than the United States during their period of existence, correct? Estonia, Latvia, the invasions of the rest of the Baltic nations, the suppression of the Ukrainian anarchists, an attempted invasion of Finnland (which albeit failed miserably), do none of these ring a bell? As for the environment, the Soviet governments had done more damage to the environment than any capitalist could do, one quick search of the Aral sea, the water in Sochi show the results whereas in Capitalism people are incentivized to pollute less simply because it costs more money to do the opposite and they are more incentivized to find ways to use waste as a means to profit. This ironically reminds me of the vehicles that the Soviet Union produced, which copied Western designs but were significantly inferior in performance and polluted far more.

> Renewable energy isn't developed purely out of a profit motive, it requires massive subsidies from the government for corporations to do so.

But that's a half-truth at best, it is true that the government subsidizes renewable energy, but this has led to two main problems; A.) It's ended up making feasible renewable energy to be a much more expensive alternative to normal energy in it's costs and B.) that the government has subsidized inefficient ways of producing energy (such as solar, which takes so much work to produce a fraction of what other forms of energy can produce and takes more resources than it purports to preserve). This isn't even mentioning the government's virtual shutdown of modern Nuclear energy (which surprisingly actually produces far less radiation than coal plants do at full functioning, I shit you not. I was surprised too).

>True. When the rate of profit reaches zero, there will be no more investments, start-ups or entrepreneurs. You'd literally have to wait for a war or a similar catastrophe to get the business cycle running again.

That's not actually how any of this works, at all.

> White settler bought off land from people who didn't have a concept of modern private property and then deported them.

Holy shit, are you a high school student? I'm amused by the fact that some people still believe that Native Americans somehow didn't understand private property. No, Native American tribes by and large completely understood private property rights, and more often than not they either sold their land and full well knew the implications and did so out of various reasons, or they had their land stolen from them (although theft of their lands did become less common as time went on, the implementation of the Dawes act made things much worse and caused a small war during the late 1800s to the 1920s, which was an attempt by the Indian tribes to protect their private property). Even then your next statement was funny.

> While that's not fully developed capitalism it sure is capitalistic.

Theft is capitalistic now? That's amusing, might as well label the USSR as a capitalist country now, private property rights be damned. It's almost like you call anything you don't like "capitalism", now isn't that amusing?

> I mean, look at Hawaii: Mark Zuckerberg wants to ban native Hawaiians from accessing his 5 miles of private beach. "Not real capitalism"? Come on guys…

I'm beginning to seriously doubt that you know anything about what you're talking about and that you're just pulling your vague understanding of recent events out of your ass and twisting it so that it fits your narrative. What Zuckerberg did was essentially disregard the property rights of those who already lived on the land due to the government's incompetence in regards to the private ownership of the people in Hawaii (which mind you, the governments shouldn't even be involved with in the first place). Now that's not to say that a good portion of the land he bought wasn't abandoned land but a good chunk of what he bought was still owned by other people and more over he tried to sue them into selling the land to him, that is until he dropped all of that when his consumers basically called him out of on his shit. Isn't it great when people are actually held accountable for their actions by their consumers? Come on guys…


 No.67932

File: 0845cbe8b1fae0d⋯.png (367.13 KB, 704x457, 704:457, ayyyyy.png)

>>67912

Just as a quick and a final note, barely anything of what you write afterwards has any actual meaning but there is one tidbit that I found really amusing.

>. Have a brief look on /pol/ and see what their explanation is for the economic failure of African nations: "lmao niggers"

Oh yes! Because when I think of capitalism and discussion of economics on the internet, I think of /pol/! Clearly the writings and rants of "National Socialists" must not only coincide with the usual capitalist thought, but clearly, they are the spokesman for capitalism, despite their approval of regulation, the depletion of free trade, state control of speech, etc (these are all just tiny things of course, clearly they love the free market)! I too like to attribute the conclusions of completely separate ideas and concepts to the ones that I just don't like!

That's why I go to boards that are all about direct democracy to get all the latest opinions of Monarchists!


 No.67934

>>67927

But there are ways to avoid polluting without closing a factory entirely. Even back then, you could just pay a premium for cleaner burning varieties of coal.


 No.67948

>>67917

>and economic growth is often bad for the environment.

How the fuck has this shit meme continued as long as it has when government is fucking atrocious for the environment? Economic growth isn't bad for the environment, industrial growth is. And even then, you can think of industrial growth as a chemo that kills the human cancer of brush fires and pollution via induction of toxic chemicals in order to create a healthier environment down the line.


 No.67949

File: 2c39240dcb8d6e8⋯.mp4 (1.65 MB, 400x400, 1:1, muh_white_invaders.mp4)

>>67927

Which is why you as a factory make a compromise with the people you're polluting, or stop fucking polluting.

>>67930

You'd probably enjoy vid related.


 No.67954

>>67934

with factory you always pollute, sometimes more sometimes less


 No.68007

>>67934

>>67949

No, fuck off, stop trying to pretend you aren't retarded. You're willing to allow stupid fucks who can't put up with a small amount of dust shut down entire factories and leave everyone unemployed.

Even now there is some libertarian insisting that 'it's up to them to decide' what a 'small amount of dust' is, so stop pulling your Jewish tricks.

>>67948

And economic growth is often associated with industrial growth. Please kys


 No.68011

>>68007

Spotted the NEETSoc




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