/liberty/ - Liberty

Sounds like a statist problem to me

But for real now, you faggots use a blatant double standard whenever you blame something on capitalism (or refuse to blame something on communism).

First of all, you regard even the most mangled, statist forms of "capitalism" as just as valid as libertarian or even stateless capitalism. On the other hand, your definition of socialism (or communism) is always incredibly narrow. Everything from a fictional Ancapistan to Nazi Germany falls under your definition of capitalism, and sometimes even the USSR because it's "state capitalist" Ancapistan is also simultaneously feudalist and capitalist, because you only take historical determinism serious when it suits you. A centrally planned economy where the profit motive is forbidden and everything managed by soviets, on the other hand, still isn't communist because it isn't internationalist enough, or the soviets aren't elected democratically enough, or some stupid shit like that. It's like declaring horses to be shit because they kill more people than unicorns, and adding hippos to the death toll of horses.

Not just that, your criteria for attribution suffer from the same fault. For a death to be attributed to capitalism, it's enough when it happens in a country you would currently classify as capitalist. Not just that, it's also enough when the country isn't capitalist, but is somehow "exploited" by a capitalist country, and every kind of business contact counts as exploitation. War, likewise, is always blamed on capitalism, even if non-economic motives are at least as plausible as economic ones the implication being that socialist countries will never declare war for economic reasons, but are perfectly content with their lot. But when a democide happens in a socialist country, it was "capitalist agitators"; when a famine happens, it was the recently disowned "kulaks" or one of these mysterious draughts that only ever hits socialist countries.

I've seen capitalism get blamed for deaths from lung cancer, suicides, and even serial killers. I have never seen anyone calculate the number of suicides in socialist countries and add them to their death toll, and merely "preventable" deaths are also often excluded. Rummel cut the death toll of China short by thirty million because, while he acknowledged that the Great Famine happened, he didn't blame the government for it. A mistake he later corrected, and rightly so.

>>67050

>issue clearly caused by statism and violation of property rights

>HUUUUURRRRRR ITZ DA JEWS EBUL CAPITALISTS

>HURR DURR PROVE ME WRONGZ!!

2/10 for getting me to reply

>>67063

>You deflected the argument to strawman why you think communism is bad. Wew.

Actually, I addressed your argument. I criticized your standard of attribution and your definition of capitalism. If both of these have to be rejected, your argument must be rejected, too, at least in its current form.

There's nothing wrong with claiming that some regime isn't "real capitalism". You know, sometimes, it's simply true. Same with "not real communism". The reason why it became a meme, and the reason why you trying to mirror it is so goddamn retarded, is because you end the argument with this claim. You merely claim that because Ruritania lacked some specific feature, it wasn't communist. You never point out why this feature is significant or how it would've made a different. On the other hand, we can tell you exactly why a economic intervention has ntohing to do with capitalism.

How about you just define your terms? Tell us what capitalism is, what communism is, then we can talk. Before we do that, this discussion is senseless. You'll just throw slogans and memes around or randomly pick fallacies from the "list of fallacies" you have open in another tab right now, and I'm not in the mood for childish games.

>Also, communism does get blamed for smoking deaths, the black book of communim is where that meme came from lol

Can you point me to a specific page? I ctrl-f'd that thing for "cancer", "smoke", "smoking", "cigarette", "cigar", "drug", and "tobacco". Nothing I found supported your claim, and I cannot say that I trust your honesty or your intellect enough to take your word as proof.

>>67050

Prove that America helps ISIS.

They are killing ISIS.

You could blame it on America for arming the rebel groups though, that seems fair.

>>67076

>The U.S. "accidently" drops supplies for IS

>The U.S. "accidently" bombed a SAA position

>The U.S. recently evacuated 20 high-ranking IS commanders from Deir Ezzor with helicopters

>Tons of CIA/Mossad connections to ISIS

>Government insiders admit to helping ISIS

>Placed the seeds of war and ethnic tension in 2011 by spreading anti-Assad propaganda and letting foreign mercenaries enter Syria to kill a bunch of civilians (and then blaming it on Bashar)

All with the help of our great allies in the Gulf region, we couldn't do it without Saudi-Arabia, Qatar and their Al-Jazeera jihadi propaganda outlet. Tunisia and Libya provided the fighters, while U.S. bases in Jordan provided the means to enter Syria (or good ol' smuggling from Turkey).

Meanwhile the Russian air force is actually bombing the fuck out of IS and destroying tons of terrorists, convoys and disrupting logistics, greatly helping the Syrian Arab Army make gains.

They also deployed military police in Aleppo after it was liberated, giving humanitarian aid to civilians and developing a good relationship with the locals. They also dropped food to the besieged Deir Ezzor (who held out for years against IS attacks).

Thank Russia for actually helping Syria and saving lives. Hillary and McCain are butt hurt that their plan to turn Syria into Libya v2.0 has failed.

Next stop, Idlib!

>>67086

>Although, I suspect the yanks also want to destabilize Europe again so they can exploit the crippled continent again and enjoy another economic Golden Age.

To what end? Europe is a dead continent. Nothing is produced there.

>>67083

>The U.S. "accidently" drops supplies for IS

>The U.S. "accidently" bombed a SAA position

Bound to happen eventually.

>The U.S. recently evacuated 20 high-ranking IS commanders from Deir Ezzor with helicopters

What actually happened seems to be very controversial.

>Tons of CIA/Mossad connections to ISIS

>Government insiders admit to helping ISIS

Sources on these? I know that Israeli think tanks have seen ISIS as useful, but I doubt they would be brave enough to form actual connections.

>Placed the seeds of war and ethnic tension in 2011 by spreading anti-Assad propaganda and letting foreign mercenaries enter Syria to kill a bunch of civilians (and then blaming it on Bashar)

Aren't many of the foreign militants fighting ISIS as well?

>>67086

Where on Earth do you get the idea that it's 'common knowledge' the US created ISIS?

The argument is supposed to be that the Iraq war and the Syrian civil war created the conditions for ISIS, which is bad enough. You don't need to prove that they were fighting themselves (and making themselves look bad)

>>67093

Would you care to explain the video I posted? All the evidence is against the US Government.

>USA have been warmongering for decades in the Middle East

USA have assisted or created various other paramilitary groups that have (((coincidentally))) become enemies years later

>IS rarely, if ever, attacks Israel

<military lobbyists benefit from more war because they can grab more tax money

<israeli lobbyists benefit from more war so that they can clear muds out of their breathing room + kill white goyim

<oil lobbyists benefit from more war because they can destroy competing oil drill sites and raise prices

<megalomaniacs benefit from more war because MUH TURURERSTS are a good excuse for more government

Obongo has mentioned that he has been training ISIL forces

>IS have shown an unprecedented talent in propaganda as though that's what they were trained for

I have not read those leaked documents that supposedly showed Killary's and the CIA's involvement, but if they are as damning as they are said to be then I would recommend you ask around at /pdfs/ or /polk/ if you want more proofs.

The thing is that RagheadBoogeymen are never supposed to be allies. That's like saying that the american people are allies. Or low-ranking soldiers are allies. Or an MRE's packaging is an ally. They are just tools to be used and thrown away. The US "helps" them in the sense that their attacks are never supposed to destroy them, because if you actually destroy the "threat" then you don't have an excuse to fight anymore. The idea is to attack them in such a way that things get even worse and war is perpetuated. They kill IS troops because they don't care about them any more than they care about a homeless veteran. But there is a very good reason why they are so comically inefficient at it.

Have you ever read 1984? The war (note: singular) in the Middle East that's been going on since before I was born is exactly what Orwell was talking about with the War that is Peace, except with a little bit if capitalism thrown into it too.

>>67248

>IS rarely, if ever, attacks Israel

Well that's the proof isn't it.

The usual mark of a pseudo-science is that it explains how things work rather than showing whether.

>>67083

why does quatar support usa?