[ / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / bbbb / bl / firechan / fur / loomis / lovelive / madchan / shota ]

/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Oekaki
Show oekaki applet
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
dicesidesmodifier
Password (For file and post deletion.)

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 12 MB.
Max image dimensions are 10000 x 10000.
You may upload 5 per post.


WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 9de8cde94cbbc94⋯.jpg (92.79 KB, 496x750, 248:375, tumblr_inline_n2qaghf0K41r….jpg)

 No.65866

How will the pornstars living in Utah like Asia Carers handle government intrusion?

https://governorblog.utah.gov/2016/04/governor-signs-anti-pornography-bills-declaring-public-health-crisis/

 No.65867

Asia carera closed her blog btw so I can't ask her.


 No.65868

Looks like they'll have to get an actual job actually producing goods instead of producing useless smut. How horrible.


 No.65870

File: b492e0ec0334957⋯.jpg (52.14 KB, 600x768, 25:32, Shaved Dog.jpg)

>>65868

> haha, people will now be forced to stop doing things I don't like!

Okay.


 No.65873

>>65870

>It has value just because it exists and for no other reason

Okay.


 No.65877

>>65873

No one said anything about value, that's something you attached for no reason. Value is subjective, just because you don't like it doesn't change the fact that there's a lot of people who do indeed actually value pornography. Hell, even if a good number of people didn't value pornography, how does that justify attempting to stifle it?


 No.65878

>>65868

>only physical goods have value

Yeah! Fuck artists and musicians, we should all live in grey boxes producing bullets for the army.

The only sound we need to hear is the assembly machines, the only romance we need to read is the instruction manual of whatever machine we need to use.

Entertainment is just wasting your time frivolously instead of being productive, back to your 14h hour shift!


 No.65880

>>65877

People value alcohol too, which is poison that tastes nice. It's a disgusting, time wasting, relationship destroying habit that produces no good and only causes harm. I'm a porno addict and I would push the button to eradicate all porn on the earth in two seconds.

It only harms, it does no good, and it's particularly poisonous to the development of children, which is exactly who these porn peddlers target.

>>65878

You joke, but what you just described would produce a society of Spartans who could conquer country after country if they so desired.


 No.65881

>>65880

>what you just described would produce a society of Spartans

That would use the shittiest metal for their swords because the idea of creating better alloys is intelectual property, something that's given no value because it's not a physical tangible goal.

The alloys themselves are, but what are you gonna do? Pay a small fee to the inventor of said alloy for every sword made?

Or pay him less, maybe even kill him so he shuts up, telling everyone else that comming up with new ideas doesn't really pay off?

Friendly reminder that the Spartans had their art and culture as well, things that aren't tangible physical goods either and yet their society still invested in those.

Just because all you know of Spartans starts and ends with "300", that doesn't give you an actual argument to debate how objective or subjective the value of entertainment is.


 No.65882

>>65880

>I'm a porno addict and I would push the button to eradicate all porn on the earth in two seconds.

So you can't control yourself so therefore you must have everyone else controlled? Do you support gun control as well, /leftypol/?


 No.65883

>>65881

Pfft. Like they wouldn't improve their metals where they focus so much effort on producing metals. Intellectual don't have a monopoly on intellectual property, my coworker s can build a better porch than any "intellectual."

>>65882

We already do that, felons don't get to have firearms in many states.


 No.65884

File: cf54e7cf1355319⋯.jpg (63.65 KB, 800x581, 800:581, spotthefinger.jpg)

>>65880

>People value alcohol too, which is poison that tastes nice

And they have every right to drink alcohol if they wish. It is entirely within their right to drink alcohol, you may not approve of it but it is the drinker's body in which alcohol is being consumed and as such it is his right.

> I'm a porno addict and I would push the button to eradicate all porn on the earth in two seconds.

So because of your own lack of control, you have to seek to control everyone else through force? Have you considered that other people who watch porn aren't as addicted as you are? Why should they have to suffer as a result of your own incompetence?

People have just as much a right to hurt themselves, as they do the right to heal themselves, build themselves up, among other things that are productive.


 No.65885

>>65884

Sure, if they were isolated on an asteroid. Your actions effect others. People depend on you. You depend on people. You are a community whether you acknowledge the fact or not. Your children need their dad, the pub does not need dad. The pub will be just fine without dad. What good has alcohol (not as medicine, but for consumption) done for anybody? It ran it's course when we figured out heating water is what destroys bacteria, which was the purpose brewing beer served unknowingly.


 No.65886

>>65883

>Like they wouldn't improve their metals

"They" wouldn't do jack shit because that's not their trade. Shows how much you know about greek society.

>my coworker s can build a better porch than any "intellectual."

Porchs are now the benchmark for "intellectuals", uh?

>Your actions effect others

I'm currently masturbating to traps with silly hats on. Tell me how is this affecting you.

>What good has alcohol done for anybody?

It made for a good social lubricant and a relaxing mild drug for social gatherings. Many friendships have been formed over a mug. Hard workers that actually do physical labor apreciate alcohol especially beer because alcohol in it's base is a form of sugar that helps a lot, not to mention how it eases some muscle pain as well.

You would know all of these if you got out of house more often.

>which was the purpose brewing beer served unknowingly

>people only drank beer to prevent bacterial infections.

See, this is why I talked about intellectual property earlier. If IP was real estate, your head would be Baltimore.


 No.65887

File: 6419cd4a88ee840⋯.gif (1.97 MB, 154x273, 22:39, its not funny.gif)

>>65885

>Sure, if they were isolated on an asteroid.

You don't need to be isolated on an asteroid to have ownership over your own body, and have control over what goes in and what doesn't.

>Your actions effect others

My smoking of a joint or my drinking of a bottle of beer inside my house affects others? How amusing.

The threshold on which my actions affect others is reason to involve action against me, other than that, there is no reason to use force against me if I'm drinking alcohol or doing drugs. Drinking, or doing drugs by themselves do not inherently hurt anyone besides the person doing them.

>You are a community whether you acknowledge the fact or not.

I am an individual within a community, a community itself is just a jumble of individuals with their own tastes, desires, values, etc. On what ground do you have to use force on someone who simply smokes a joint? Or someone who decides to cut himself? Or drink for that matter? Again, he is the one who owns himself, the fact that he might be "part of a community" does not warrant the community ownership over his body or his property.

This is also ironic, because drinking in many nations and communities is considered a crucial part of their celebrations (such as Midsummer or Oktoberfest).

>Your children need their dad, the pub does not need dad.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Are you implying I couldn't go out drinking with some friends after a day of work and then attend to my kids once I get home?

>What good has alcohol (not as medicine, but for consumption) done for anybody?

A lot of people seem to enjoy it and value it enough to pay for it. It's warranted some people a living of brewing and even business, while for others it's warranted a simple drink when they come home. Even if it didn't do "any good" (which is a rather odd criteria), how is this reason to ban it? I would argue that "My Little Pony" does no good, but that doesn't mean I suddenly outright ban it.

>It ran it's course when we figured out heating water is what destroys bacteria, which was the purpose brewing beer served unknowingly.

So I guess we should also proceed to ban old computers because new computers are far more efficient at their purpose? Should we also ban old guns that use gunpowder because new ones found a much more efficient way of fulfilling their purpose? Inefficiency is not a reason to ban something. Although I doubt the authenticity of your statement (beer, wine, mead had always served the purpose they serve now), you would be correct in saying that it does not adequately serve the purpose you listed in your statement, but it certainly does serve as a base for many a modern day beverage, crucial in Whiskey, Margaritas, etc.

Soda is also harmful to your body, and yet many people drink it, and it is entirely within their right to do so. Again, just as we have a right to build upon our body and improve ourselves, we also have a right to damage ourselves. It is the individual who owns his body, not his family and not his community.


 No.65889

>>65886

>I'm currently masturbating to traps with silly hats on. Tell me how is this affecting you.

If this is true, you're using valuable electricity power for stupid crap that could be funneled into research that may benefit me. Quit it.

>>65886

>You would know all of these if you got out of house more often.

Don't be a prick, I work a 40 hour week just like everybody else.

>They" wouldn't do jack shit because that's not their trade. Shows how much you know about greek society.

Of course they would. Krupp spent 40 years finding the secrets of Steel, much of it hammering on an anvil. He didn't figure it out reading books, he figured it out through trial and error.

>It made for a good social lubricant and a relaxing mild drug for social gatherings. Many friendships have been formed over a mug.

Play basketball, you get a good workout and you don't destroy your liver.

>>65887

>You don't need to be isolated on an asteroid to have ownership over your own body, and have control over what goes in and what doesn't.

When you're drunk you don't control anything, hence the need to have bar brawlers dry out in a cell before being released back into the public.

>>65887

>On what ground do you have to use force on someone who simply smokes a joint?

On the ground that they're poisoning the air quality for everybody else, hence why no smoking is allowed in public buildings and places of business.

>Or someone who decides to cut himself?

I'm not talking to the cops because you're an edgy emo kid, and your razors are now mine.

>>65887

>Are you implying I couldn't go out drinking with some friends after a day of work and then attend to my kids once I get home?

Exactly what I'm implying. Your kids need you, your buddies have a television and a bottle to drown themselves in.

>A lot of people seem to enjoy it and value it enough to pay for it. It's warranted some people a living of brewing and even business, while for others it's warranted a simple drink when they come home. Even if it didn't do "any good" (which is a rather odd criteria), how is this reason to ban it? I would argue that "My Little Pony" does no good, but that doesn't mean I suddenly outright ban it.

You reckon a tyrant could take over a nation that's sober 24/7? If I was a tyrant I'd make booze easy to get so I had a nice docile herd to rule over. Yes, MLP should be banned, that's a kid's show, not for manchildren.

>So I guess we should also proceed to ban old computers because new computers are far more efficient at their purpose?

>Should we also ban old guns that use gunpowder because new ones found a much more efficient way of fulfilling their purpose?

Do they do harm when handled properly? If not, then don't ban.

>>65887

>Soda is also harmful to your body, and yet many people drink it, and it is entirely within their right to do so. Again, just as we have a right to build upon our body and improve ourselves, we also have a right to damage ourselves. It is the individual who owns his body, not his family and not his community

Memes. Soda doesn't slow down cognitive qualities, it just makes you fat like everything else we already eat.


 No.65890

>>65866

Actual sex is at least six million times more unhealthy. This is nothing more than a moral crusade against unattractive men


 No.65892

Good, porn is shit


 No.65893

>>65889

>you're using valuable electricity power

ahahahah

>that could be funneled into research that may benefit me

AHAHAHAHAHA

Faggot, get off the internet. You're using valuable energy shitposting here that could be used for research that could benefit me. Quit it.

>I work a 40 hour week just like everybody else.

Flipping burgers or refilling aisles isn't work, it's punishment for being dumb and lazy in school.

>KruppThe best example you found was from someone in the 18th century (when intelectual propery was protected) that learned a new technique for his family company, so direct profit out of monopolizing it. Wew!

>Play basketball, you get a good workout and you don't destroy your liver.

What does that have to do with socializing and relaxing with friends? Riveting conversations you're gonna have with your teammates when you're spending your breath to play the game.

If you can't understand the point of going out for a pint with beers, you should leave the house more often and I don't mind for your job.

>When you're drunk you don't control anything

By your logic, you're aquitted of anything you do when you're drunk because you're not in control.

So are we free to do as we please and reap the consequences, or are we to be controlled by the government and aquited of our fuck ups.

Rhetorical question, you're a fuckup that doesn't want to own up to his shitty life and would rather blame alcohol or let someone make the decisions so you don't have to be blamed.

>hence why no smoking is allowed in public buildings and places of business

There's always a "smoker zone" for those people and there's always a balcony or door close by where a lot of conversation actually happens.

Again, get out more often.

>Your kids need you, your buddies have a television and a bottle to drown themselves in.

Alcoholism is fine if it happens to other people, uh? Everyone should just take care of their family and forget about everyone else, uh?

>You reckon a tyrant could take over a nation that's sober 24/7?

>I'm against tyrants, that's why I want the government to decide what I can entertain myself with

>Do they do harm when handled properly? If not, then don't ban.

Define harm. Old computers aren't as efficient eletrically speaking and that cuts down on "precious electrical power for important research that might benefit me".

Harm is quite a subjective term, everything is harmfull to some degree, anon.

>Soda doesn't slow down cognitive qualities, it just makes you fat like everything else we already eat.

Soda gives you diabetes and sugar rush for kids. And vegetables or fruit don't make you fat, you literally gigantic faggot.


 No.65894

File: d77d34d1bcd55ef⋯.gif (3.38 MB, 700x285, 140:57, a hearty laugh.gif)

>>65889

>When you're drunk you don't control anything, hence the need to have bar brawlers dry out in a cell before being released back into the public.

Nice rhetoric, but you're not actually addressing anything. I still own my body, even if I'm drunk and unable to make decisions that can be considered rational or intelligent by my standards. Another thing to keep in mind is that I was also sober and was in a clear state of thinking before I proceeded to get drunk, so clearly I had enough control in putting myself in such a state of affairs. Hence why if anything happens during my drunken spree, I am entirely responsible for my actions and not the beer or anyone else.

>On the ground that they're poisoning the air quality for everybody else, hence why no smoking is allowed in public buildings and places of business.

TOP LEL, let's ban cars while we're at it then. Since cars do most definitely pollute, let's all live with less technology than that of ancient tribals and ban fire. After all, that also hurts the quality of air, so why aren't you a primitivist?

I swear this actually has to be the most retarded part of the argument but it does get better.

>I'm not talking to the cops because you're an edgy emo kid, and your razors are now mine.

Is he not harming himself though? Why is his harming of his own body given a pass while someone who drinks is given hell on earth and made to face capital punishment?

>Exactly what I'm implying.

>mfw

Wow, amazing revelation. Why don't you tell that to the good number of American fathers who have a good drink with their friends after a day of work and come back to their families standing on their own two feet and spend time with their kids? Tell them how Mr Nationalist man, who has a "porn addiction" and hasn't raised a family knows all about the ins and outs of your abilities in terms of what you can and can't do as a father, and then proceed to tell them how his values and tastes are somehow the objectively correct ones and not only that, but that his tastes and preferences should ergo be enforced upon everyone else with violence.

Fucking retard.

>You reckon a tyrant could take over a nation that's sober 24/7?

What kind of a retarded question is this? In how many fucking countries has the sober nature of the population helped in a war? You could argue that having a drunk army doesn't help much in battle, and that's fucking common sense but that doesn't apply to the vast majority of people who have no interest in fighting others.

> Yes, MLP should be banned, that's a kid's show, not for manchildren.

So again, you just want to ban things you don't like? This is practically an emotional argument. How does the fact that these people just watch cartoons or media that's not necessarily directed at them mean that they should face any punishment? Are we to imply then that if I proceed to watch a show meant for teenagers for purposes of nostalgia that I should then be arrested because of my choice? Should I face punishment for playing Super Mario 64 from time to time for old kicks?

>Do they do harm when handled properly? If not, then don't ban.

So now we're just playing arbitrary chicken?

>Memes. Soda doesn't slow down cognitive qualities, it just makes you fat like everything else we already eat.

It is here that it is apparent that you've missed the point of the entire argument. It's not about cognitive damage (which is a seemingly arbitrary line that you've drawn for some unprecedented reason), it's about the fact that people who drink soda end up hurting themselves. I think you'd agree with the notion that being fat is unhealthy, so why wouldn't we ban food and drinks that's high in fat? Why do we draw an arbitrary line here? Also, are you ignoring the countless other impacts that sodas such as generic Colas have on the body (most specifically the bones)?


 No.65897

>>65893

>>65894

Alright, so much for trying to insert jokes in.

Reason to ban alcohol: Destructive to liver, linked to throat cancer. Has killed indirectly in the form of drunk driving. Nobody declares how much their life improved since they started drinking, just he opposite.

Tobacco: similar health issues, lower on priority list to ban because doesn't kill cognitive abilities, does produce second hand smoke which does harm non smokers.

Porn: My money says birth rates would absolutely explode if porn was erased from existence.

Self harm: Kid needs help, and I don't hate him enough to just let him vanish into the night. Maybe he just needs a buddy, I dunno.

MLP: for the luls. The sperging would be both amazing and produce weeks of content to laugh at.


 No.65898

>>65897

Your reason to not ban these things: freedom.

Reckon I've got your argument right, or is that a misrepresentation?


 No.65899

>>65894

>cartoons or media that's not necessarily directed at them

Technically not correct. A lot of kids shows are done in a way that's appealing to some degree for the whole family, often with parts of the plot or some messages only understood by more mature audience to keep them watching while the kids enjoy the simpler parts of the show.

Disney was pretty good at this, one of the reasons it got so popular both kids and parents alike enjoyed what they produced.

MLP is sort of in a similar basket. The creator made a show that has a lot of positive images for young girls cobbled with a plot with some supernatural elements for kids, but there's a bit behind the mentality of the characters and how they deal with the situations they find themselves in that appeals to teens and adults as well.

Fluttershy is the timid character that's too afraid of social repercussions to ever impose on anything, and while that's something some kids can understand very well, parents that have to work with agressive and extroverted collegues see a bit of themselves in Fluttershy for instance.

There's a similar phenomenon in anime with the Shoujo genre that was literally made for young girls (the direct translation of shoujo is little girl) but with time it morphed into shows that appeal both to young girls and older men.

A lot of the characters behave in a way that innocent children will see as friendship while mature audiences will understand as lesbian relationships. It's both pure and titilating at the same time, briliant even to some degree since it's qualities are defined directly by the observer.


 No.65900

God I hate /pol/

I cant wait until the police state happens so I'll feel no remorse for gunning down fashies who step on my property


 No.65902

File: c2fd5726bc08535⋯.jpg (27.13 KB, 326x226, 163:113, youvemistaken.jpg)

>>65898

>>65897

Nice simplifying of the whole matter, but if we're going to simplify my arguments in such a disingenuous manner, let's at least do the same to yours.

Alcohol:

> It's dangerous and basically you're not allowed to hurt yourself because fuck the idea of making your own decisions and having self ownership.

Tobacco:

>It's dangerous and basically you're not allowed to hurt yourself because fuck the idea of making your own decisions and having self ownership.

Porn:

> First, I was a pitiful addict to it and my original reason was just that I didn't like it but now I also have a financial interest in ensuring that it's banned so let's fuck over anyone who wants to watch this!

Self-Harm

> The kids need help, and that's why we're going to use the government to do it! Because that's not a fucking retarded idea, the government is obviously very efficient at helping people and not having back-firing consequences in the mix.

MLP

> I just want to meme.

Under these circumstances and arguments, I will easily accept that my point is simply nothing else but the condensed word of "Freedom". Other than that, you might have to actually expand your understanding on what my argument is and the implications such anti-pornography/anti-alcohol laws would entail should such things be enforced.

>>65899

Well, I get that a lot of kids shows are done in a way that adults and the whole family would find it amusing, I'm just trying to make a general statement,I suppose better examples would be things like shows that teach kids ABCs which are genuinely targeted towards that demographic but the point still somewhat sticks.


 No.65904

>>65902

Works for me. Enforcement is easy

Catch it, bag it, tag it, same way we already do with hard drugs. In the case of porn, block IP's of porn sites. Won't cover the determined, but it will work for the majority of people. In the case of the self harm, keep what we already have, hope parents can catch it on he home front. If parents can't do it for whatever reason, then, yes, state intercession to help the poor bugger out, level of intercession depending on whether the parents are a wreck and aren't even bothering or if the parents are trying. Heavy hand in first case, light in second, and the light hand spent in helping the parents.


 No.65908

File: ebcf31c1ac07806⋯.mp4 (4.59 MB, 352x240, 22:15, Oldie1.mp4)

File: a17383c63fac7eb⋯.jpg (61.91 KB, 500x689, 500:689, porno1.jpg)

>>65904

>Enforcement is easy

I think you missed the entire point again. Why should some state officials have authority in regards to activities that don't actually harm anyone except possibly the users themselves? Doesn't this ultimately imply that the government thus has ownership over the individual?

I mean the rest of this shows that you completely misunderstood what I meant, but there are some gold nuggets in here.

> Catch it, bag it, tag it, same way we already do with hard drugs

Because the drug war has been a massive success. Oh wait. No it fucking hasn't, it's been a god damned catastrophe and multiple states are beginning to legalize marijuana or else find some leeway to less strict drug laws. In fact, it's almost like this happened before with Alcohol… Oh wait, it has! It was called Prohibition, and it was yet ANOTHER fucking catastrophe, one that led to Mafias around the country becoming million dollar businesses!

> In the case of porn, block IP's of porn sites. Won't cover the determined, but it will work for the majority of people

You're actually retarded and you probably won't stop anyone or anything. People have been producing pornography since the very idea of footage was a thing, and before that erotic imagery was produced when men found out they could draw into walls, then continued when people began using ink, it continued when people began painting to create images, it hasn't stopped and to ignore and downright ban people's ability to sexually explore will only backfire in your face. Another thing to keep in mind is that people have been watching it en masse most especially since the days of the internet (in fact, that's two of the main things that pushed the development of the internet; Video Games, and Pornography). Trying to ban pornography of all things isn't going to stop anyone, but I'm also really amused by the fact that you somehow think it will stop the vast majority of the population or that most people (again, especially in the age of the internet) will even bend over for your laws (they won't, they never have and probably never will).

But Kudos to you if you think the state will be efficient in any of these things. It's an interesting level of retardation that I don't even see among normal statists, but hey the sky's the limit and a tea cup is your vehicle. Have fun.


 No.65910

>>65873

>I don't understand the concept of supply and demand at the most basic level

pro-tip: is she gets paid money for doing porn, it exists for a reason


 No.65917

File: 8f8d925f5758c29⋯.jpg (58.93 KB, 600x349, 600:349, 1426268006684.jpg)

>>65880

>It's a disgusting

Confirmed underageb&

>Time Wasting

It's how I got to keep my current job after getting shitfaced with my boss, so debatable.

>relationship destroying

It's connected millions of people around the world, so this just sounds like you whining about people doing icky things you don't like.

>That produces no good and only causes harm.

Patently false.

<People who replace one soda a day with a glass of beer or wine are 31-41% less likely to develop kidney stones

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23676355

<Beer is rich in B-vitamins due to its malt base

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22087742

<Vodka has been used as an alternative for mouthwash/antiseptics since the 17th century

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/can-vodka-cure-bad-breath/

<Not only does drinking reduce your risk of death, it actually makes you less likely to have long-lasting illnesses

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/ohs-sma121713.php

<Beer and especially cider are high in antioxidants

http://www.aim-digest.com/gateway/pages/general/articles/antiox/cider.htm

<Many old cultures rightfully drink heavier alcohols with meat because it prevents food poisoning

https://archive.fo/qNXbX

Need I get into the psychological benefits that the lowered inhibition created by alcohol can have on individuals?

>inb4 "muh binge drinking"

Anything in excess is bad for you. You should know since you swallow way too much bullshit with your morning red pills.


 No.65920

>>65917

>you swallow way too much bullshit with your morning red pills

Says the guy who thinks all races are equal, because a 2,000 year old book told him so.


 No.65925

>>65920

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? Niggers gonna nig. All races are not created equal, but they do deserve equal treatment in a court of law/other areas. A gun in the hands of a black man who wants to defend his family will do far more to end black-on-black violence than any anti-gang legislation.


 No.65926

>>65908

>>65902

'My body my choice' is only convincing to libertarians. In the first place, it's obviously not true that drug consumption doesn't affect anyone else. In the second place, paternalism can be perfectly moral, since the well being of any individual should be considered more important than his liberty; his liberty is only a tool for his well being.

By the way, both Prohibition and the War on Drugs exclusively involved going after producers, rather than going after demand. Basic economics says this will only cause the price to rise- which won't really reduce demand, because demand for drugs is inelastic.


 No.65927

>>65917

>Anything in excess is bad for you.

What a worthless rebuttal to the serious plague of binge drinking which kills millions of people every year.


 No.65931

File: c4f8c87945ff0ea⋯.png (272.51 KB, 407x865, 407:865, snake_girls3.png)

>>65927

Only about 2,200 people died of alcohol poisoning in 2016. Even if you inflate the numbers in the way cancer is tied into tobacco deaths, you still only end up with about 79,000 alcohol-related deaths (driving intoxicated is reckless driving which is its own statistic, not an alcohol-induced death. Even if you count it you only raise the number to around 80-88k). Since the 3.3 million figure you're citing comes from WHO and likely includes war-torn regions and similar areas where alcoholism is prevalent, I'm inclined to say this is a non-issue. I come from a state where parents can legally serve their children alcohol (in a private establishment), where children can ingest alcohol for educational purposes at school (typically under the assumption that they're in a culinary arts/food science class of some sort), and even where they can drink it for religious purposes. This is one of those things those socialist cucks over in Europe got right. Parental guidance prevents binge drinking, and it's a parent's job to prevent binge drinking, tobacco use, porn use, etc. or to teach responsible use of materials. It's not the place of the state or any other regulating agency that uses blanket statements behind a blank mask to try and collectively solve individual-oriented issues like these.


 No.65933

File: 054a07aba2d788d⋯.png (131.81 KB, 300x298, 150:149, ClipboardImage.png)

>>65931

> Since the 3.3 million figure you're citing comes from WHO and likely includes war-torn regions and similar areas where alcoholism is prevalent, I'm inclined to say this is a non-issue.

What exactly is your theory? They get drunk and walk on land mines? You're obviously just trying to cover your tracks.

>Parental guidance prevents binge drinking, and it's a parent's job to prevent binge drinking, tobacco use, porn use, etc. or to teach responsible use of materials. It's not the place of the state or any other regulating agency that uses blanket statements behind a blank mask to try and collectively solve individual-oriented issues like these.

I don't know why you're narrowing the talk to children. Adult drinking is actually more destructive.


 No.65934

>>65933

A) You'd drink too if you lived in a warish hellscape/third world shit hole.

B) I discussed children because most issues in adulthood can be traced back to their source in childhood. The faggot who drinks a 2 liter of mountain dew at lunch in Junior High/High School was the kid who's parents wouldn't let him have any artificial sugar as a kid period.


 No.65935

Or to use a more /liberty/-oriented example, pedophiles tend to be people who were molested as kids.


 No.65936

>>65926

>In the second place, paternalism can be perfectly moral, since the well being of any individual should be considered more important than his liberty; his liberty is only a tool for his well being.

Got proof for that? Because it's far from self-evident. A fair number of people would object to being put into a machibe that simulated a perfect reality for them, many of them are even instinctively disgusted by that prospect. So it's not even like there was any kind of consensus on what you said, not even an implied one. So, where's youe reasoning, and how is it totally original and different from that of classical utilitarianism?


 No.65937

>>65925

>All races are not created equal, but they do deserve equal treatment in a court of law/other areas

Niggers are not humans, so they don't deserve any human rights.


 No.65938

>>65934

>A) You'd drink too if you lived in a warish hellscape/third world shit hole.

And this matters why? Alcohol is still killing them, even if the rate is made higher by the situation. It's not an argument.

B) I discussed children because most issues in adulthood can be traced back to their source in childhood. The faggot who drinks a 2 liter of mountain dew at lunch in Junior High/High School was the kid who's parents wouldn't let him have any artificial sugar as a kid period.

Anecdotal. It seems to me alcoholism runs in families. When regular binge drinkers were young their parents allowed them to get hooked by funding and permitting booze parties.

>>65936

Liberty doesn't have value, people have value. Liberty doesn't actually exist.


 No.65940

File: ae95fe4a5421689⋯.jpg (58.16 KB, 424x547, 424:547, mad-pig.jpg)

>liberty defending blacked.com and other anti-white psychological warfare

Libertarians get the noose too.


 No.65943

>>65926

>'My body my choice' is only convincing to libertarians.

I suppose everyone else must love the idea of slavery then?

> In the first place, it's obviously not true that drug consumption doesn't affect anyone else.

But I never said that's not inherently true, I said that when it does end up affecting someone else's life in a violent manner, then force is appropriate. Other than that, there is no reason to intervene. A guy smoking marijuana in his own home affects no one, a guy drinking in his own home affects no one, ergo there is no reason to use force against him.

>paternalism can be perfectly moral,

No it can't, simply because we as individuals do not know what's best for others. I don't know what you should do with your money and you don't know the best way for me to use mine. Leaving people alone is moral, assuming ownership over their property (including their body) simply because you think you know what's best for that person is not moral by any means and not even logical.

>By the way, both Prohibition and the War on Drugs exclusively involved going after producers, rather than going after demand.

That's just not even correct. That has some truth to it when it comes to prohibition but has little to no application when it comes to the 'War on Drugs' in which those who do drugs potentially face severe prison sentences.


 No.65946

File: 8100644fa77e891⋯.jpg (145.52 KB, 889x960, 889:960, 1d5ed1d8945a2576d1e510503a….jpg)

>>65937

you are like little baby, watch this


 No.65947

File: b21b1e10783e5ca⋯.jpg (42.67 KB, 640x480, 4:3, Mobile-Suit-Zeta-Gundam-Ha….jpg)

>>65880

>I'm a porno addict

Jej


 No.65948

File: 6520006aa2c916e⋯.png (396.42 KB, 800x850, 16:17, violent_wojak.png)

>>65866

This is literally some "The state does your planning for you!" type-shit. America is as much a "Christian nation" as it is a Zoroastrian one. These retards are so shaken and spooked by the though of masturbation that they want to take away free expression so they can feel comfortable.


 No.65959

>>65873

>It has value just because it exists and for no other reason

Funny, that's basically the same argument you people give for your genetics. Nothing has intrinsic value, NOTHING.

Value is placed upon someone/something by others purely by how much they value it, which in turn comes from how much value that person or thing provides to that person.

To bring this back on topic, porn, like other untermensch things such as alcohol, is valued by people unable to bestow themselves on the world because it provides an escape from the inherent meaninglessness of their lives. Whats more is that by arguing for its banning ironically you too have placed value on it, and for similar reasons.


 No.66018

>>65943

> I suppose everyone else must love the idea of slavery then?

No, they're just not ideological.

>A guy smoking marijuana in his own home affects no one, a guy drinking in his own home affects no one, ergo there is no reason to use force against him.

Completely untrue in many cases, as you know.

>No it can't, simply because we as individuals do not know what's best for others

We can't 'know' very much but we can know when to intervene. Drugs kill people. Please get off the ideology train.

>has little to no application when it comes to the 'War on Drugs' in which those who do drugs potentially face severe prison sentences.

Very, very few people go jail for drug use. There are festivals all over Europe where thousands of people take drugs in the open in full view of police. Celebrities sing about their drug habits all the time. And so on, and so on


 No.66019

>>65946

>only people who believe in the NAP are human

>99% of the population don't believe in the NAP

>99% of humans aren't human


 No.66020

>>66019

I'll believe it


 No.66021

>>66019

>>99% of the population don't believe in the NAP

That's because most people haven't even heard of it, when I explain it to someone I always get the "that sound perfectly reasonable" response.

Its literally just the golden rule but properly codified.


 No.66033

File: 741e3b861aa42d2⋯.png (334.75 KB, 831x1172, 831:1172, 1471828461277.png)

>>65917

>It's how I got to keep my current job after getting shitfaced with my boss, so debatable.

>Orthobro kept his job by watching porn with his boss


 No.66034

File: 627bfe695a169ce⋯.png (86.72 KB, 268x325, 268:325, absolutely disgusting.png)

>>66033

He was clearly referring to drinking alcohol, retard. And also, abstinence was a mistake. It was invented by puritan faggots who had to come up with something to keep up the holier-than-thou bullshit despite being objectively shitty persons who never amounted to anything in life. You know, like the pharisees that Jesus condemned.


 No.66036

>>65917

Having to degrade yourself to keep your job is nothing to brag about.


 No.66039

>>65878

>Entertainment is just wasting your time frivolously instead of being productive,

<unironically explaining what entertainment is

<failing to understand


 No.66044

>>66021

So they become anarchists?


 No.66047

File: 402435ca92b098b⋯.png (73.76 KB, 866x644, 433:322, 1in5.png)

File: 9a26d1e49cd8052⋯.png (204.65 KB, 500x333, 500:333, out of the gene pool.png)

>>66018

>No, they're just not ideological. No, they're just not ideological.

So self-ownership is ideological but somehow your thoughts aren't?

Please stop being retarded.

>Completely untrue in many cases, as you know.

No, I don't know. You don't even provide evidence to this claim so I'm genuinely amused.

>We can't 'know' very much but we can know when to intervene. Drugs kill people. Please get off the ideology train.

So when I say that you are the one who should be in control of your body, I'm on the ideology train, but when you say that someone else should have control over your body then you're not? Please get off the retardation train, you don't even have any actual arguments just rhetorical statements that mean nothing and have no backing to them.

>>66018

>Very, very few people go jail for drug use

Top KEK. Are you actually this retarded? I am genuinely asking because it seems like you have some sort of method of ignoring the world around you and holy shit, is it amusing.

>There are festivals all over Europe where thousands of people take drugs in the open in full view of police.

Gee, it's almost like most countries in Europe have different drug laws… Hmmm, really makes you think.

>Celebrities sing about their drug habits all the time.

Yeah, because that doesn't mean shit. Celebrities can also sing about murder, rape, etc, that doesn't mean they did anything, and the fact that you take songs and use them as evidence to support your claim is hilarious.

Please, consider suicide as a possible career option.


 No.66084

>>65880

>I'm a porno addict and I would push the button to eradicate all porn on the earth in two seconds.

This reminds me of how liberals want to ban all guns for everyone because they don't trust themselves with guns. Christ, why are leftists so fucking subnormal? All collectivists should be slaughtered like fucking hogs.


 No.66098

>>66047

> So self-ownership is ideological but somehow your thoughts aren't?

I recognise that there many values, not just individual liberty. So do the great majority of the public. That's what I mean by not being ideological.

>You don't even provide evidence to this claim so I'm genuinely amused.

It doesn't need evidence. You aren't a child. You know that many people, for example, live with children or at least have people who care about them.

> Please get off the retardation train, you don't even have any actual arguments just rhetorical statements that mean nothing and have no backing to them.

Saying 'people should control their own body man fuck off dad!' is rhetoric

>Are you actually this retarded?

Neither of us are retarded. Grow up. Even Rolling Stone magazine, which is not known for unbiased reporting, admits that very few people are in jail for drug possession. Your image mostly describes drug dealers, because the war has been against them.

>Gee, it's almost like most countries in Europe have different drug laws

Drug possession is illegal there too. Will you admit that laws aren't always enforced? Why not admit that, yes, it could happen in America too?

> Yeah, because that doesn't mean shit. Celebrities can also sing about murder, rape, etc, that doesn't mean they did anything, and the fact that you take songs and use them as evidence to support your claim is hilarious.

When has a celebrity made a song which seriously admitted to murdering someone? There's a difference between fiction and openly admitting to breaking the law.

> Please, consider suicide as a possible career option.

Typing this was very worthwhile, wasn't it?


 No.66101

File: 3f0f353a53cf74f⋯.png (30.24 KB, 653x427, 653:427, marijuana prisoners rollin….png)

>>66098

>>66098 (You)

Here's the relevant part of the Rolling Stone article. People who do drugs overwhelming don't face severe jail sentences. America is a country of 300 million people, large numbers of whom regularly use illegal drugs.


 No.66102

>>66034

Doesn't stop it from being funny, you autist. Besides, his meaning was completely ambiguous until the 4th paragraph, especially since the guy he was replying to was saying porn is disgusting etc not alcohol.

What do you mean by abstinence? From porn/masturbation I disagree. Obviously there are healthy people that indulge, but for most it's psychologically unhealthy. Best that people should willingly follow Varg's advice IMO.

From alcohol, sex and other amusements? I agree wholeheartedly. If fun is distracting you then that's not reason to cut fun out all together, just learn some self-control. I'd argue that many would benefit from periods of abstinence as a time to focus on spiritual stuff, but that's different to the soft monasticism you are talking about.

>>66036

Nah, it's alright bro. I was wholesome 2D hentai. 100% Bible approved.


 No.66104

File: 294d7f65b506619⋯.png (17.81 KB, 630x433, 630:433, marijuana-arrests.png)

>>66098

>I recognise that there many values, not just individual liberty. So do the great majority of the public. That's what I mean by not being ideological.

But ignoring the individual and his liberty is the very essence on which ideological thinking is born. It is what allows certain individuals to pursue violent action against those who don't necessarily do violent actions against anyone at all. THAT is ideological, the idea of "let's not hurt other people just because they drink" on the other hand is hardly ideological.

>It doesn't need evidence. You aren't a child. You know that many people, for example, live with children or at least have people who care about them.

In that very simple scenario, I asked you to explain to me how a person who uses marijuana in his own home inherently impacts anyone in a manner of aggression. Go ahead, I'm genuinely curious. He's home alone, has no family and decides to smoke a joint, how does his action warrant arrest?

>Saying 'people should control their own body man fuck off dad!' is rhetoric

It's a statement of fact. We are the ones who control our body, and when an individual or institution strips us of the decisions in regards to what we consume, then there is most definitely room for concern.

> Even Rolling Stone magazine, which is not known for unbiased reporting, admits that very few people are in jail for drug possession. Your image mostly describes drug dealers, because the war has been against them.

I'll give you that, but that doesn't change the fact that these people still end up going to prison or at the least being arrested and facing some form of legal punishment as a result, it doesn't change anything. Another thing to keep in mind is that even drug dealing by all means is simply voluntary exchange, and one that yet again doesn't warrant violence.

>Drug possession is illegal there too.

Not quite, as opposed to the United States which approaches drugs from a legal standpoint, most European countries view drugs from a "public health" perspective and although it certainly varies from country to country, many European states have decriminalized drugs.

>When has a celebrity made a song which seriously admitted to murdering someone? There's a difference between fiction and openly admitting to breaking the law.

The whole point is to prove that singing a song about doing drugs doesn't inherently mean anything, it's not a concrete statement otherwise most people who make metal music would probably be in prison if their words were to be taken as a statement of fact.

>Typing this was very worthwhile, wasn't it?

It's definitely an average post, but it does what it does.


 No.66108

>>66104

>It is what allows certain individuals to pursue violent action against those who don't necessarily do violent actions against anyone at all. THAT is ideological, the idea of "let's not hurt other people just because they drink" on the other hand is hardly ideological.

Abandoning an anti-law ideology is ideology? No, it's simply the willingness to judge laws on their merits.

>In that very simple scenario, I asked you to explain to me how a person who uses marijuana in his own home inherently impacts anyone in a manner of aggression. Go ahead, I'm genuinely curious. He's home alone, has no family and decides to smoke a joint, how does his action warrant arrest?

You never said 'inherently' and you never said he was home alone and had no family.

> I'll give you that, but that doesn't change the fact that these people still end up going to prison or at the least being arrested and facing some form of legal punishment as a result, it doesn't change anything. Another thing to keep in mind is that even drug dealing by all means is simply voluntary exchange, and one that yet again doesn't warrant violence.

Alright, but the point which I intended to prove was that the war on drugs is overwhelmingly a war on dealers, just like prohibition was.

> Not quite, as opposed to the United States which approaches drugs from a legal standpoint, most European countries view drugs from a "public health" perspective and although it certainly varies from country to country, many European states have decriminalized drugs.

They're illegal in the vast majority of European countries.

> The whole point is to prove that singing a song about doing drugs doesn't inherently mean anything, it's not a concrete statement otherwise most people who make metal music would probably be in prison if their words were to be taken as a statement of fact.

Again this word 'inherent'. I admitted these accounts could be fictional, but it also seems to me they are admitting openly to having broken the law.

Based Peter Hitchens goes to drug debates and has people hold up their hands if they've used marijuana, in order to prove the same point.


 No.66109

>>66108

You also never said 'in a manner of aggression'.

It seems like you're trying to get me to prove smoking marijuana breaches the NAP- but that's your standard, not mine.


 No.66115

File: 35fcde376004216⋯.mp4 (5.41 MB, 640x360, 16:9, Miss Puff Has Had Enough.mp4)

>>66108

>Abandoning an anti-law ideology is ideology?

Just being a 'pro-law' ideology or 'anti-law' ideology doesn't warrant that line of thought any prestige. The use of violence against people who don't commit acts of aggression (such as murder or theft) is illegitimate and illogical in it's own right.

>You never said 'inherently' and you never said he was home alone and had no family.

I said "A guy smoking marijuana in his own home affects no one", I didn't mention a family but even if I did, what difference would it make? So now if you have a family, it'll be illegal for you to smoke marijuana and yet if you don't have a family it's perfectly fine? Mind you, there are families that smoke marijuana together as a recreational activity in a similar fashion to a family drinking amongst each other on thanksgiving, should they all be arrested now? And why should we draw the line at that level and not arrest for alcohol?

Any crime committed whilst on drugs is a crime committed on drugs, but to criminalize the drug itself is to criminalize behavior that's not inherently harmful to anyone but the person potentially doing the drug.

>They're illegal in the vast majority of European countries.

Yes, but again, most European nations don't approach the issue of drugs as a legal issue but rather as a public health issue, this is an important distinction that separates a process of seeing a doctor and seeing a possible arrest. There is a key difference in the approaches towards tackling the issues. The only countries that have a similar approach to the US in terms of it's enforcement of drug laws (at least to what I could find) was Germany, the UK, Sweden and Norway but even they generally weren't as harsh in terms of the punishments for possession (with the exception of the UK, which under the 'Misuse of Drugs' act can potentially land you with much longer sentences than those found in the US ).

> I admitted these accounts could be fictional, but it also seems to me they are admitting openly to having broken the law.

Well then it's just a subjective hunch. Don't get me wrong, there's definitely a good number of musicians and the sort who did sing about their experiences with drugs (Such as Eric Clapton's 'Cocaine'), but singing about drugs is and has been a very big trend in the music industry for ages.

>>66109

>It seems like you're trying to get me to prove smoking marijuana breaches the NAP- but that's your standard, not mine.

Well then I have to ask, what is your reasoning for banning it then? If some guy smoking marijuana doesn't hurt me or anyone else for that matter, then what's the purpose in banning it? The use of 'inherent' is important, because we're not talking about taking action against someone for committing a crime on drugs but rather just the very act of doing drugs being enough to warrant action.


 No.66116

File: 15c293b37b0444a⋯.jpg (238.61 KB, 874x1080, 437:540, Toilet.jpg)

>>66109

Also, not to nitpick as it is possible you misunderstood what I was saying but you stated:

>It seems like you're trying to get me to prove smoking marijuana breaches the NAP- but that's your standard, not mine.

But isn't that exactly what you implied? I said;

>A guy smoking marijuana in his own home affects no one, a guy drinking in his own home affects no one, ergo there is no reason to use force against him.

To which you responded;

>Completely untrue in many cases, as you know.

The logical conclusion that I could arrive from this is that you see sort of violation in regards to someone's life or property when he's simply smoking a joint or having a drink. Now perhaps you misunderstood what I meant in regards to an individual smoking a joint/ having a drink or maybe I misunderstood but if not, then isn't that exactly what you were implying?

> pic unrelated


 No.66117

>>66115

> The use of violence against people who don't commit acts of aggression (such as murder or theft) is illegitimate and illogical in it's own right.

According to your ideology. People free of that ideology will assess laws as they come.

> I didn't mention a family

Good you admit it.

>what difference would it make?

Because if you become mentally ill, your family will be affected.

>So now if you have a family, it'll be illegal for you to smoke marijuana and yet if you don't have a family it's perfectly fine?

Laws are usually applied to everyone.

> Any crime committed whilst on drugs is a crime committed on drugs, but to criminalize the drug itself is to criminalize behavior that's not inherently harmful to anyone but the person potentially doing the drug.

Speeding is not 'inherently' harmful, provided you don't hit everyone.

As far as crime goes, prevention is better than cure. Many frequent marijuana users have committed terrible crimes, such as mass shootings.

> Yes, but again, most European nations don't approach the issue of drugs as a legal issue but rather as a public health issue, this is an important distinction that separates a process of seeing a doctor and seeing a possible arrest. There is a key difference in the approaches towards tackling the issues. The only countries that have a similar approach to the US in terms of it's enforcement of drug laws (at least to what I could find) was Germany, the UK, Sweden and Norway but even they generally weren't as harsh in terms of the punishments for possession (with the exception of the UK, which under the 'Misuse of Drugs' act can potentially land you with much longer sentences than those found in the US ).

The point is it's against the law. And they do drugs openly in all those countries, in full view of law enforcement.

> Well then it's just a subjective hunch. Don't get me wrong, there's definitely a good number of musicians and the sort who did sing about their experiences with drugs (Such as Eric Clapton's 'Cocaine'), but singing about drugs is and has been a very big trend in the music industry for ages.

So for several decades, people have openly admitted to it in music. Is this consistent with drug use being a serious crime, punished by life sentences in jail?

>Well then I have to ask, what is your reasoning for banning it then?

It's other effects.

>If some guy smoking marijuana doesn't hurt me or anyone else for that matter, then what's the purpose in banning it?

Because of the total effect of the law in preventing crime and other social problems.

Again, I'm reminded of the laws against speeding. Not everyone who speeds runs someone over.

>The use of 'inherent' is important

Not at all.

>>66116

>you see sort of violation in regards to someone's life or property when he's simply smoking a joint or having a drink

No, I see that an individual's drug use affects someone else in many cases, which you somehow doubted. How does this imply it 'violates the NAP?


 No.66119

File: b88a52ffc6b81bd⋯.jpg (47.44 KB, 700x525, 4:3, a night of good drinks.jpg)

>>66117

> According to your ideology. People free of that ideology will assess laws as they come

Not actually the way it works.

>Good you admit it.

I think you missed the point, the point was that I never said that he had a family, he was just one guy alone in his own home. So what's the need to use action against him.

>Because if you become mentally ill, your family will be affected.

What the actual fuck. I think it's at this point that you're really grasping for straws. For starters, there's no evidence showing a causal relationship between drugs and mental illness, so I don't know where the fuck you got this from. Maybe you're confusing the idea of a dual diagnosis for something that shows a direct causal link? Another thing to keep in mind is the line of argumentation

> Your family will be affected

My family might be affected just from my very line of work, especially if it's a dangerous one like being a private military contractor or someone who works on construction sites, this doesn't warrant action against me.

>Laws are usually applied to everyone.

Yeah exactly, so the distinction is pointless.

>Speeding is not 'inherently' harmful, provided you don't hit everyone.

Yeah, you're right. I can go in my private lot and I can speed right on through and do so as much as I please. When I do so on a road that's owned by someone else then it becomes his issue and he has the right to make sure I keep away from it or fine me, etc in much of the same way that if someone doesn't want me getting high on their property then they can easily tell me to leave or not to use their property for that purpose.

> Many frequent marijuana users have committed terrible crimes, such as mass shootings.

Holy shit, this is some reefer madness 2.0.You mean some mass shooters do marijuana right? There is no actual link between them and I find it hilarious that you tried to pass that off as some sort of reasoning. 23 mass shootings have happened since 2011, in only 4 of them did the perpetrators use marijuana, so it's a pretty far stretch to say that marijuana users are linked to 'Mass Shootings' of all things especially when you consider that marijuana is a drug that usually has a calming effect on it's users…

1/2


 No.66120

File: 3fb51cb4175cc4d⋯.gif (1.78 MB, 270x188, 135:94, Im sorry u wot.gif)

>>66117

2/2

>The point is it's against the law. And they do drugs openly in all those countries, in full view of law enforcement.

Can I see some proofs of this? Not that this even changes the argument but I find it amusing.

>So for several decades, people have openly admitted to it in music. Is this consistent with drug use being a serious crime, punished by life sentences in jail?

Who the fuck said anything about being punished with life in Jail? Now you're just misconstruing my argument and not only that, but you've also completely missed the point of what I'm saying, so I'll go ahead and put it in sections.

>A

Once again, a song isn't an actual admittance to the law. Singing about something doesn't mean that you actually did and as such Law Enforcement doesn't pay attention to them. Like I said, singing about drugs, murder, etc have all been long-reigning fads in the music industry. It doesn't mean anything, and that's why no one arrests or even get warrants on people for singing about drugs. It's meaningless and unproductive.

>B.)

The celebrities who actually do drugs and go to prison usually have enough money to pay bail and get out or tend to hire good lawyers who end up getting them a simple few years in rehab. Their financial status helps them in that type of situation.

>It's other effects.

You can't just put an incomplete sentence in there and not expand on it. What do you mean by "It's other effects"?

>Because of the total effect of the law in preventing crime and other social problems.

But it doesn't. Again, this has been seen time and time again, like with Prohibition. You're not preventing crime, you're causing an increase in it when there really doesn't need to be one. You're also making drugs a lot more dangerous than they need be as the manufacturers only need to answer to the black market which operates on breaking the law to begin with and as such Black Market dealers and producers have no duty to ensure that the drugs aren't cut too pure, are safe, etc (similar to bathtub gin during the prohibition days). This isn't even mentioning the countless financial advantages that are ultimately given to cartels as a result of the law (Again, similar to the mafia during prohibition). You're not helping society by taking away responsibility and possible industry from them, you're just making things worse.

>Again, I'm reminded of the laws against speeding. Not everyone who speeds runs someone over.

Except it's a false equivalency, one is acting irrationally on other's property and perhaps violating a speeding law that had already been set up by the property owner whilst the other is simply a person smoking a blunt on his own property.

>Not at all.

Except, it sort of is.

>No, I see that an individual's drug use affects someone else in many cases, which you somehow doubted. How does this imply it 'violates the NAP?

First of all, we're talking about marijuana and second "affects someone else in many cases", is such a general statement that makes no distinction for the type of effect. You have to expand on these things, what do you mean?


 No.66147

File: 1f3a5c522e3c88c⋯.gif (23.44 KB, 937x748, 937:748, marijuana genetics.gif)

File: 5ea31d04183c576⋯.gif (231.9 KB, 1010x854, 505:427, marijuana genetics 2.gif)

>>66119

> I think you missed the point, the point was that I never said that he had a family, he was just one guy alone in his own home. So what's the need to use action against him.

No. First you said he was home alone, so why do action against him?

Then you deliberately switched it to a person home alone who has no family. And you always changed the condition from 'affecting someone else' to 'violently affecting someone else', while trying to pretend this change didn't happen.

>For starters, there's no evidence showing a causal relationship between drugs and mental illness, so I don't know where the fuck you got this from.

Again, I can only conclude you're being deliberately dishonest, since there is vast amounts of research showing correlation between drug use and mental illness. And probably some evidence showing causation, at least for some drugs.

It would certainly make sense if mind altering substances could alter the mind.

> My family might be affected just from my very line of work, especially if it's a dangerous one like being a private military contractor or someone who works on construction sites, this doesn't warrant action against me.

There's a difference between working and earning money and selfishly ruining your mind with poisons.

>Yeah, you're right.

So now you admit that your argument about speeding / drug use not being inherently harmful was misguided?

>23 mass shootings have happened since 2011, in only 4 of them did the perpetrators use marijuana

This might be accurate or it might not be. I would also want to see car attacks, for example, included in the survey.

Also, even when they didn't use marijuana, they might have, for example, use steroids, like Anders Breivik.


 No.66148

>>66120

>Not that this even changes the argument but I find it amusing.

People taking drugs in front of the police doesn't show that there is no serious campaign to arrest drug users?

>Who the fuck said anything about being punished with life in Jail?

You said they faced severe prison sentences.

>nce again, a song isn't an actual admittance to the law. Singing about something doesn't mean that you actually did and as such Law Enforcement doesn't pay attention to them. Like I said, singing about drugs, murder, etc have all been long-reigning fads in the music industry. It doesn't mean anything, and that's why no one arrests or even get warrants on people for singing about drugs. It's meaningless and unproductive.

But I expect 'singing about murder' is always obvious fiction, whereas singing about drugs is autobiography, and is actually admitting to a crime. Not that I'm a pop music expert.

>What do you mean by "It's other effects"?

The mental illness, cancer, lung problems, memory loss, and so on, it causes, are enough to make me want to ban it even though marijuana use doesn't inherently involve committing violence on somebody.

> First of all, we're talking about marijuana

Marijuana is a drug. And using it affects someone else in many case. Will you admit this?


 No.66151

>>66147

>always

*also

And on the subject of being dishonest, I mean you're (not for the first time) trying to pin me to a particular statement which I didn't make. For example, saying that I had evidence of direct causation, or saying that I had evidence marijuana use inherently involves taking violence against somebody else.


 No.66153

File: 1c090d7fba075bc⋯.png (407.52 KB, 792x468, 22:13, succ or no succ.png)

>>66147

>Then you deliberately switched it to a person home alone who has no family. And you always changed the condition from 'affecting someone else' to 'violently affecting someone else', while trying to pretend this change didn't happen.

If that's what you want to think than sure, but you seem to be trying to find some way to be right when you're really just not. "Violently affecting someone else" is the same as "affecting someone else" in terms of warranting action, the fact that you're trying to find some sort of wiggle room to be correct is interesting, but nonetheless in vain. I never mentioned a family in the previous scenario, I said that he was simply in his home smoking a joint. I proceeded to detail that he was entirely alone to stress the question of how someone simply smoking a blunt somehow warrants force, and then you decided to imply dishonesty.

Ironically you then stated " The law applies to everyone", so what difference would it make? Wouldn't both be arrested under the law?

>Again, I can only conclude you're being deliberately dishonest, since there is vast amounts of research showing correlation between drug use and mental illness. And probably some evidence showing causation, at least for some drugs.

I love how you chose not to read the rest of my sentence, since it actually counter-acted exactly what you said. A dual diagnosis is not the same as a causal relationship, some people with mental illness do indeed have a drug addiction, but one does not cause the other. Having a mental illness may cause one to be more vulnerable to drug addiction, but drug addiction does not cause mental illness.Both drug use disorders and other mental illnesses are caused by overlapping factors such as underlying brain deficits, genetic vulnerabilities, and/or early exposure to stress or trauma, this is why it's a relationship of "DUAL DIAGNOSIS" and not an actual causal relationship.

>There's a difference between working and earning money and selfishly ruining your mind with poisons.

Not in terms of the fact that both are potentially activities that can hurt me exponentially, which was the point exactly.

>So now you admit that your argument about speeding / drug use not being inherently harmful was misguided?

> mfw

You can keep not reading the rest of the argument, but that's entirely on you. There's a clear false equivalency in your statement, but if you want to parade around as though you're correct, well, you can do that just as well I suppose.

>I would also want to see car attacks, for example, included in the survey.

There are a few studies on the matter, the complex nature of THC makes it's study in regards to car crashes one that's hard to exactly pinpoint exactly as to the effects it has on driving, but most have found that there's little impact with marijuana (especially in comparison to alcoholic drinks).

>“At the present time, the evidence to suggest an involvement of cannabis in road crashes is scientifically unproven.

>To date …, seven studies using culpability analysis have been reported, involving a total of 7,934 drivers. Alcohol was detected as the only drug in 1,785 drivers, and together with cannabis in 390 drivers. Cannabis was detected in 684 drivers, and in 294 of these it was the only drug detected.

>… The results to date of crash culpability studies have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes. … [In] cases in which THC was the only drug present were analyzed, the culpability ratio was found to be not significantly different from the no-drug group.”

>G. Chesher and M. Longo. 2002. Cannabis and alcohol in motor vehicle accidents. In: F. Grotenhermen and E. Russo (Eds.) Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential. New York: Haworth Press. Pp. 313-323.

There's also a few studies that show that drivers who tested positive for marijuana were no more likely to crash than who had not used any drugs or alcohol prior to driving.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nti/pdf/812117-Drug_and_Alcohol_Crash_Risk.pdf

>http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nti/pdf/812118-Roadside_Survey_2014.pdf

In the words of the survey above

> "At the current time, specific drug concentration levels can-

not be reliably equated with a specific degree of driver impairment."

So there's that out of the bag.


 No.66154

File: 40a2cd0716837b5⋯.jpg (86.58 KB, 1484x1900, 371:475, driving drugs.jpg)

>>66147

>People taking drugs in front of the police doesn't show that there is no serious campaign to arrest drug users?

It doesn't change the fact that these people shouldn't be facing legal punishment in the first place, still I'm genuinely curious about seeing proof of this out of pure amusement.

>You said they faced severe prison sentences.

They do, but facing "severe prison sentences" is not the same as facing life (although in the UK under the Misuse of Drugs Act, you can potentially get life in prison for the production and use of Class A drugs). Stop trying to exaggerate the argument in your favor, it's not really helping.

>But I expect 'singing about murder' is always obvious fiction, whereas singing about drugs is autobiography, and is actually admitting to a crime. Not that I'm a pop music expert.

Well again, that's your subjective hunch and not one that's correct. As I stated before, people have been singing about drugs, murder, rape, etc for a very long time simply because of the nature of the subject in question.

>The mental illness, cancer, lung problems, memory loss, and so on, it causes, are enough to make me want to ban it even though marijuana use doesn't inherently involve committing violence on somebody.

This is not a reason to ban it, this implies then that one does not have a right to hurt himself/ herself. Drinking and smoking can also do much of the same thing, but this does not imply that this is reason to ban it. Hurting oneself is not a crime that effects others, and as such it does not need to have force used upon the user, to do so would be to violate his rights. You'd be the one actually hurting people, not the guy who just sits down and does marijuana every month or so. In short, you'd be the one to have violence warranted against you, not the guy who didn't hurt anyone.

>Marijuana is a drug. And using it affects someone else in many case. Will you admit this?

Sure, but the general statement of "it affects someone else in many case" doesn't exactly warrant it being banned especially with such a broad statement.

>>66151

>And on the subject of being dishonest, I mean you're (not for the first time) trying to pin me to a particular statement which I didn't make. For example, saying that I had evidence of direct causation, or saying that I had evidence marijuana use inherently involves taking violence against somebody else.

Well I talked about a guy drinking and smoking marijuana in his own home not being a bother to anyone. You said "untrue in many cases", this must mean that smoking marijuana in his own home must hurt someone else somehow, and then you proceed to say that you didn't mean it in regards to the NAP, which granted, makes your argument even dumber but nonetheless it's one that's still has no actual application.


 No.66155

>>66153

>"Violently affecting someone else" is the same as "affecting someone else" in terms of warranting action

That's your belief. It doesn't make them the same thing. This isn't me trying to find wiggle room, this is me telling you the truth.

> Ironically you then stated " The law applies to everyone", so what difference would it make? Wouldn't both be arrested under the law?

They would. But how much marijuana is smoked by people who live alone, smoke alone, and have no family?

> Not in terms of the fact that both are potentially activities that can hurt me exponentially, which was the point exactly.

But they aren't the same thing, so the law shouldn't treat them the same.

> You can keep not reading the rest of the argument, but that's entirely on you. There's a clear false equivalency in your statement, but if you want to parade around as though you're correct, well, you can do that just as well I suppose.

You admitted that they were the same in that neither was inherently harmful.

> There are a few studies on the matter, the complex nature of THC makes it's study in regards to car crashes one that's hard to exactly pinpoint exactly as to the effects it has on driving

I'm talking about terrorist attacks.

> It doesn't change the fact that these people shouldn't be facing legal punishment in the first place

But the point of mentioning the police was to show that there was no war on drug users.

>Drinking and smoking can also do much of the same thing, but this does not imply that this is reason to ban it.

It is reason to try to regulate them, and probably to regulate them strongly.

>Hurting oneself is not a crime that effects others

Flat out lie.

> this must mean that smoking marijuana in his own home must hurt someone else somehow

Not 'must' just 'does in many cases'.

> then you proceed to say that you didn't mean it in regards to the NAP

Because you later said something like 'this doesn't prove it violently affects someone else every single time' or something stupid like that.


 No.66156

My summary so far. Perhaps you can prove it wrong.

>there is no war on drug users

>yes there is look at all these people in jail for drug offences

>actually, only a tiny percentage are in for possession

>okay

>using drugs doesn't affect anyone else if you do it in your house

>wrong in many cases

>umm wrong dude show it inherently violently affects someone else

>it doesn't, and i never said it does

>haha nice try to wiggle out of it

>i'm not wiggling, those are two different things

>(i hope) okay

>there is no war on drug users as shown by willingness to use drugs in front of police

>even if they used drugs in front of police that would be totally irrelevant

>incorrect

>okay


 No.66157

>>66155

>That's your belief. It doesn't make them the same thing. This isn't me trying to find wiggle room, this is me telling you the truth.

Not really. At the very least, actually expand on your statement then, don't just make a general argument of "not really". How does it affect other people then?

>They would. But how much marijuana is smoked by people who live alone, smoke alone, and have no family?

Why is that relevant exactly?

>You admitted that they were the same in that neither was inherently harmful.

Yes, but me doing both on my own property is harmless, me doing it on someone Else's can be potentially harmful, ergo it's up to the property owner to determine whether or not I can get high on his property or speed. We still wouldn't arrest someone for speeding on his own private property now would we? So why would we arrest someone for smoking marijuana

>I'm talking about terrorist attacks.

Well, that's probably less of a correlation then. Odd that you're trying to find one though, considering the nature of the drug.

> But the point of mentioning the police was to show that there was no war on drug users.

Well, for starters, I'm still waiting for actual proof of this, and secondly lots of people still get arrested for drug possession. It is mainly aimed at drug dealers, but this doesn't change the fact that drug users still face legal consequences.

>It is reason to try to regulate them, and probably to regulate them strongly.

No, it's really not. Hurting oneself is yet again, not a crime.

>Flat out lie.

Flat out truth. Hurting oneself doesn't inherently hurt anyone else, it's when person A hurts person B is there a crime, not when person A is simply smoking a blunt.

>Because you later said something like 'this doesn't prove it violently affects someone else every single time' or something stupid like that.

Well yes, because if it doesn't actually hurt someone else then what's the point?

> But lung cancer, etc

But does this then imply that we can't hurt ourselves?


 No.66162

>>66156

>there is no war on drug users

>yes there is look at all these people in jail for drug offences

>actually, only a tiny percentage are in for possession

>But they're still going to jail and/or facing legal coonsequences

>okay

>using drugs doesn't affect anyone else if you do it in your house

>wrong in many cases

>umm wrong dude show it inherently violently affects someone else

>it doesn't, and due to the fact that I haven't expanded on my statement at all, I can hide behind the fact that I didn't actually specifically imply violence!

>Stop trying to wiggle out of it

>i'm not wiggling!

>(You hoped wrong) Sure, but expand on what you mean then?

>there is no war on drug users as shown by willingness to use drugs in front of police

>even if they used drugs in front of police that would be totally irrelevant, but where's the proof

> no proof

> Well the statement doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't face legal consequences nor be in danger of facing legal consequences to begin with

> oki

More like that, there's also a bit of autistic screeching over the word "inherently", but I suppose that among the dual diagnosis part of the argument is just not one that we'll mention in your general summary.


 No.66165

>>66157

> How does it affect other people then?

That's more like it. Almost everybody has family and friends, and they are harmed when people become mentally ill, or ill in other ways.

> Why is that relevant exactly?

We make law for the 99%, not the 1%.

>Yes

Good. So the argument- 'it's not inherently bad, therefore it should be legal' is clearly very bad. Speeding does not always kill someone, but it should still be illegal.

>So why would we arrest someone for smoking marijuana

Just because it's on your own property doesn't mean no one else is affected. You should admit this.

>Well, that's probably less of a correlation then

Is it? Many Muslim terrorist have been discovered to be marijuana users, including, I think, Omar Mateen, though I could be remembering it wrong.

> lots of people still get arrested for drug possession.

Which clearly isn't enough to deter them from using drugs, or even using drugs in front of the police.

>No, it's really not.

It is if you care about these people, their families, etc

>Hurting oneself doesn't inherently hurt anyone else

Perhaps not inherently, but generally speaking, it does, and you did not specify inherently, once again. Even after I specifically called you out for being dishonest in this way.


 No.66166

>>66165

Oh yes, we were talking about people who used cars to commit terrorism and also used marijuana. So Omar Mateen should be ruled out. I can't think of any names of such terrorists off the top of my head.

The Charlotteslive driver did use some sort of illicit substance. I remember reading about it.


 No.66168

>>66162

>But they're still going to jail and/or facing legal coonsequences

Only a tiny amount go to jail. 'Being arrested' clearly isn't much of a deterrent- though maybe it works on teenagers.

>it doesn't, and due to the fact that I haven't expanded on my statement at all, I can hide behind the fact that I didn't actually specifically imply violence!

I didn't specifically, indirectly, or in any roundabout way imply violence every time. You, because you were trying to 'win' the argument by dishonest means, made up from nothing the idea that marijuana had to 'directly violently affect someone else'. I neither sought to prove that nor implied it had to be the case.

>> Well the statement doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't face legal consequences nor be in danger of facing legal consequences to begin with

Okay, but that's nothing to do with whether there is or isn't a war on drug users. It goes both ways.

>More like that, there's also a bit of autistic screeching over the word "inherently"

Where 'autistic screeching' means pointing out that speeding also isn't inherently harmful, but everybody still supports making speeding illegal.


 No.66170

>>66165

> Almost everybody has family and friends, and they are harmed when people become mentally ill, or ill in other ways.

Well, like I stated before. A dual diagnosis is not the same as a causal relationship. Drug Addiction is found heavily with people who have mental illnesses, but this doesn't imply that the drugs are what caused the mental illness. Another thing to keep in mind is what you're implying. Are you implying they're hurt on an emotional level and therefore warrants violence? If so, then does hurting people's feelings warrant action against the person who's hurting other people's feelings?

>We make law for the 99%, not the 1%.

A law is a law, the population that it applies to is everyone, whether it's 99% or 1%, etc. There's plenty of people who smoke in their own home alone while playing video games or watching movies etc, so I still don't understand the relevance of your argument. Am I to imply that if I choose to smoke weed in my own home alone, that the law doesn't apply to me but if I smoke with other people I'm in a world of trouble?

>Good. So the argument-

Again, read the rest of the argument, you seem to have done that, considering your next point.

>Just because it's on your own property doesn't mean no one else is affected. You should admit this.

I can't admit to something without knowing what you mean, what do you mean by someone else being affected? You stated mental illness, but again a dual diagnosis isn't a causal relationship. So what do you mean?

>Is it? Many Muslim terrorist have been discovered to be marijuana users, including, I think, Omar Mateen, though I could be remembering it wrong.

Question: How many murderers do you think smoked cigarettes?

Other points to keep in mind is that marijuana itself is more popular than ever before, so the fact that someone who commits a crime doesn't mean that this influenced him in any way.

The final point in regards to this, is that this is a rather strange argument. Omar Mateen as described in your own words was "a Muslim terrorist" who hated gays and generally loathed his own life. He had used and experimented with marijuana in the past, but that doesn't mean anything. He'd shown signs of being troubled since childhood, so this argument is odd.

>Which clearly isn't enough to deter them from using drugs, or even using drugs in front of the police.

Again, I'm still waiting on proof of this "using drugs in front of police thing", and this yet again doesn't change the fact that they still potentially face legal consequences.

Another question to keep in mind is that if it doesn't deter people from using drugs as you say then what's the point of making it illegal?

>It is if you care about these people, their families, etc

Caring about people means using violence against them for non-violent activities now?

>Perhaps not inherently, but generally speaking, it does, and you did not specify inherently, once again. Even after I specifically called you out for being dishonest in this way.

My use of "inherently" does not change the argument, had I not used the word the argument would have stayed the same. Again, this is nothing but autistic screeching, an episode of which doesn't change the argument.

>>66166

>>>66165

>Oh yes, we were talking about people who used cars to commit terrorism and also used marijuana.

That's a very odd criteria.

>The Charlotteslive driver did use some sort of illicit substance. I remember reading about it.

Well, that's not the case. As far as I could find, there's no evidence he used illicit substances. Even then, I'd be hard pressed to believe that's what drove him to do what he did as opposed to his ideological leanings.

>I didn't specifically, indirectly, or in any roundabout way imply violence every time.

Then next time, actually expand on your fucking argument and stop making generalized statements, something of which you still do as seen above. When you make an argument, you actually need to explain what you mean.

>Okay, but that's nothing to do with whether there is or isn't a war on drug users. It goes both ways.

But they still face potential legal consequences, and no, it's effect as a deterrent doesn't change anything.

>Where 'autistic screeching' means pointing out that speeding also isn't inherently harmful, but everybody still supports making speeding illegal.

Speeding in your own private lot isn't illegal because you own that property. Why is smoking marijuana going to be put in a separate category? People can potentially die from going at certain speeds in their own private lots, that would certainly impact the emotional lives of families and yet I'm sure you wouldn't make that illegal now would you?


 No.66175

>>66170

> A dual diagnosis is not the same as a causal relationship.

No, but it often is.

>Are you implying they're hurt on an emotional level and therefore warrants violence?

Sometimes.

>what do you mean by someone else being affected?

I think you know what those words mean.

If you won't admit it for marijuana, will you admit it for heroin? A heroin user might overdose, which affects other people.

> Question: How many murderers do you think smoked cigarettes?

Proportionate to the population.

> Another question to keep in mind is that if it doesn't deter people from using drugs as you say then what's the point of making it illegal?

It's supposed to be illegal already. I'm saying they should properly enforce the law.

What little law there is at least prevents mass production and advertising.

> Caring about people means using violence against them for non-violent activities now?

The violence is to deter them.

It's illegal for me to use heroin, but nobody has ever beaten me up.

> My use of "inherently" does not change the argument, had I not used the word the argument would have stayed the same. Again, this is nothing but autistic screeching, an episode of which doesn't change the argument.

It makes all the difference. You are accusing me of saying drug use affects people 100% of the time. I never said 100%. You are such a dishonest slimy person. I am going to respond if you don't admit this.

Fuck you.


 No.66176

>>66175

* affects other people

> Then next time, actually expand on your fucking argument

It totally makes sense, when I say marijuana use affects other people, to infer I mean 'violently, every time you use the drug'?

This is sheer nonsense. You're a dishonest fuck. You invented those criteria because you knew it would be impossible to make that argument.

It didn't matter to you that that wasn't my argument, because you don't care about truth.

> Speeding in your own private lot isn't illegal because you own that property

I'm talking about on the public roads. Speeding on the public roads doesn't always involve killing someone, but it often does.

You clearly have deliberately failed to understand this argument. So I won't be responding any more.


 No.66177

I made some typos I suppose, but you should still infer what I mean


 No.66180

File: 2220efb8be04a35⋯.gif (2.59 MB, 200x150, 4:3, This is the part where we ….gif)

>>66175

>No, but it often is.

No it isn't, that's why it's a "DUAL DIAGNOSIS" and not a causal relationship, they're two fundamentally different phenomenons.

>Sometimes.

Okay, so hurting people's feelings warrants violence then? That is quite a retarded statement, one that potentially impedes on multiple concepts such as freedom of speech and expression.

>I think you know what those words mean.

No, I actually fucking don't because I'm not psychic, one minute I think you're talking about some sort of violence involved with the very act of doing drugs and then you call me dishonest for misrepresenting you, so I really don't have room to make implications. Just be forth and outright, what the fuck is your actual argument?

>You won't admit it for marijuana, will you admit it for heroin? A heroin user might overdose, which affects other people.

Suicide, hurting yourself, and many other things are all things that effect others on an emotional level. This doesn't mean anything, I have every right to hurt people's feelings, this is not a crime. Hurting the family's feelings is not a crime. Even then suppose they just don't care, what then?

>Proportionate to the population.

Do you think their smoking of cigarettes impacted their actions in any way?

> I'm saying they should properly enforce the law.

So your argument is basically that even though the war on drugs doesn't mainly target users, it should most definitely take them into account then?

>The violence is to deter them.

From what? And why is it warranted?

>It's illegal for me to use heroin, but nobody has ever beaten me up.

Champ, it's when you use heroin that violence comes over, not before. That's what we're talking about.

>It makes all the difference. You are accusing me of saying drug use affects people 100% of the time. I never said 100%. You are such a dishonest slimy person. I am going to respond if you don't admit this.

Lol idgaf. Next time don't make such vague arguments and actually expand on what you're saying next time, you fucking mongoloid.

>It totally makes sense, when I say marijuana use affects other people, to infer I mean 'violently, every time you use the drug'?

>This is sheer nonsense. You're a dishonest fuck. You invented those criteria because you knew it would be impossible to make that argument.

>It didn't matter to you that that wasn't my argument, because you don't care about truth.

I have shown studies, I've tried to tell you why you are wrong in regards to dual diagnosis and why they don't mean a causal relationship between the two, I've looked up laws regarding drugs, all the while you've made very general and vague arguments which can mean literally anything, you've made nonsense points about Terrorists being influenced by marijuana (which is ridiculous considering the effects of the drug), you even tried to shoe horn the Charleston driver in there with the idea that he may have done illicit substances (Which he didn't) and then you have talked about people doing drugs openly in front of police in Europe (which I have yet to see evidence for, for the past 5 posts or so). Then I ask you to expand on your arguments, which you completely fail to do in a coherent matter and you are now throwing a shit fit simply because I asked you to expand on your argument(which is amusing but so be it).

The point is: I've actually shown evidence and have explained why your methodology is mistaken and all the while you've made vague emotional statements about family, vague claims about things that probably never happened, and generalities about drug use and terrorist activity involving vehicles (which is odd) and then when I ask you to expand on your arguments so there's no misunderstanding, you sperg out like a retard. If anyone here doesn't give a shit about truth, it's definitely you.

>I'm talking about on the public roads. Speeding on the public roads doesn't always involve killing someone, but it often does.

Do you just selectively choose not to read the rest of the argument? I mean there are more words after that one statement. Might want to read those next time. The irony and coincidence in all this is that I also brought up studies that looked at the effects of driving on marijuana and found little impact, nonetheless the point is that speeding on someone else's road or lot is a violation in ofitself because that's someone else's property and he'd made standards that one would have to follow. Me smoking marijuana on my own property, is much like me speeding on my own lot. They're both my property, they both involve me doing an activity to my self, so why not make speeding in my own private lot illegal then?

>You clearly have deliberately failed to understand this argument. So I won't be responding any more.

Top lel. Okay.


 No.66424

>>66180

I can't believe I just sat here and read through that entire argument. Well played on getting the authoritarian fool to surrender. He couldn't even have the dignity to admit defeat or even be upfront about his position. Just goes to show what kind of person you are dealing with when most of the argument revolves around them trying to twist your words into something you didn't say, and it all ends with them acting like a child trying to get the last word in.

Oh the irony of him saying that you failed to understand his argument, while it is plain to see that he was deliberately trying to twist your argument the entire time. Ah~, delicious!

As for my take on this, I'll be as simple as possible with it. I don't trust government. One must remember that those put in charge are still fallible people themselves, and history has shown us that those who seek out positions of power in government are never satisfied with what they get. They always want more. Why should I trust someone who is just as fallible and with as many, if not more, vices than me to tell me how I should live my life? I am a citizen, not a slave. A government never takes our rights "for our own good", they do it for more control. A lot of people died to give us the right to live the way we want, and I would fight to the death to keep these freedoms alive.


 No.66439

>The first is a resolution that declares pornography a public health hazard and recognizes the need for increased education and research.

>The second requires computer technicians to report when they find child pornography on a work computer or be guilty of a class B misdemeanor.

So it's nothing.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Nerve Center][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ / / / / / / / / / / / / ] [ dir / bbbb / bl / firechan / fur / loomis / lovelive / madchan / shota ]