/k/ - Weapons

Personally I'd load it down to 4 grains and treat the rifle as a straight pull whilst it has subsonics in it, and put the full size buffer spring back in so that when you shoot regular 5.56 you're not gimped. QL says that the round should be leaving the barrel at 1120fps at that level.

>>667671

I suppose you're right, even the most ridiculously heavy and obscure .224s and hasn't-been-made-in-thirty-years Norma R1 doesn't even add up quite right, so I guess it'll be a straight pull then

Is there any way to get a larger grain bullet in a .223? I don't understand bullet design well enough.

Aguila has a 60 grain .22 LR that is both subsonic and offers good muzzle energy, but that's not a necked-down cartridge.

>>667697

That's what you should be using. The whole subsonic .224 thing is a laugh riot, its a shitty caliber for such a purpose. You can get the same performance from a cheap rimfire rifle, just buy a damned 22 LR bolt gun that will fire and cycle just fine, get 60 grain subsonic. Even if you are going to use a centerfire, why not just buy a bolt rifle in the caliber as an addition and accurize it for that purpose? In any case, performance is miserable compared to superior options offered by bigger calibers and more competent cartridges.

Its hows you the problems with the cartridge cults the military created in the last 60 years, nobody asks if 5.56 really is a great universal cartridge (its not) they just say "Its the bestest!" and proceed to do things with it its not designed or intended for. Subsonic 223? WHY? Subsonic 5.7, FN's meme cult caliber it still wants to sell? WHY? Range and terminal ballistics considered, these calibers need velocity or they are miserably poor. Its a case of people doing it "just cuz" and following the caliber cults over the bridge into the water.

300 Whisper is superior in every way. 9mm Luger is superior in every way. 45 ACP is superior in every way, in spades. Those calibers are better suited because they are built for the purpose, the bigger caliber offers far greater terminal performance, bigger calibers tend to stabilize bigger bullets at slower velocities without the barrel twist problems .224 has, if velocity is limited the only way to increase terminal performance and range is heavier bullet weight and large diameter. There is everything wrong and backwards with subsonic .224 and everything better with every other choice listed. Less problems, better performance.

The correct answer for OP is "get a 22lr conversion bolt and magazine" which can be had or $200 that will cycle and when you are done with your subsonic stuff you can switch bolts and go back to 5.56 proper. The correct answer is "get a fucking 300 blackout upper and just switch them when you are done lol". Your gun won't cycle, there is some slim chance that some loads to weak to cycle can harm some guns, your performance sucks. It just seems so gimmicky.

Trail Boss is mostly made for lead bullets, not jacketed so much. Cast bullets are better when it comes to lower pressure, low velocity and the choices there aren't very good. Try the heaviest cast bullet you can buy/cast yourself and use something quick like Red Dot or Bullseye. Don't be surprised with the cartridge dynamics if you NEVER get a satisfactory loading that you like or shoots well or within the velocity range or cycles. Keep in mind this should be a fun hobby and that its bad choice for subsonic work.

This is an open forum so this kind of shit is for everyone who thinks about this. 45 ACP, 9mm Luger, 300 will all mop the floor all day long AND CYCLE. Subsonic 5.7 and 223 are for people who can't get their heads out of the cult clouds.

>>667666

5.56 was created to be a light weight fast projectile meant to defeat soft body armor. Subsonic 5.56 is self defeating and pointless. .300 memeout is getting cheaper and subsonic pistol cartriges are more practical so just make the intelegent decision and get a new upper.

>>667712

>Subsonic 5.7 and 223 are for people who can't get their heads out of the cult clouds.

You cant be a tactikool oper8er if you think practically.

>>667666

While I question the purpose of OP's endeavor, there are a few things to try:

>get an ultralight BCG

>get a pistol gas barrel

>lubricate the receiver extension and buffer spring

If all of that doesn't work, the only other option is to drill your gasport larger. Im not sure its possible to get subsonic .223 to cycle, or why you wouldn't just get a 300memeout upper, but it is interesting to think about.

Subsonic 5.56 with regular weight bullets (50-65 grains) is retarded. Why would anyone try that? That is literally .22 LR performance. If we absolutely insisted, then there are some manufacturers making very rare 90 and 100gr loads, such as Black Hills, and those are going to be much more likely to give you enough pressure to cycle and better wounding than the lighter ones. However, those bullets are extremely expensive, if you can even find any available. So this is still a worse option than using a cartridge actually made for the task.

>>667742

>.300 memeout is getting cheaper

And intelligent operators are still just using AKs and 7.62x39 instead. No reason to spend extra money for a proprietary product just to use it in only one application, which by definition sacrifices a more important application (disabling your 5.56 AR to use .300 BLK). You're right about heavy pistol rounds, though, they're not only more reliable in a long gun than subsonic ammo (due to the rifle being tuned to use them, not underpressured), but round and flat nose bullets are better at wounding at low velocity than spitzers, for both FMJ and HP. Subsonic HPs need to be well engineered, though, so you have to make sure you test all your ammo.

>>667666

You are an absolute fucking retard and should never have come here.

>>667712

>The correct answer is "get a fucking 300 blackout upper and just switch them when you are done lol".

>>667756

The other issue with super heavy bullets in smaller calibers and even medium calibers is stability. I remember they were bragging for a while with the 300 that it was going to do 220 grain bullets, some even 235 grains, Lee even made a bullet mold for 235 grain cast. Then the reports were coming in that even with the aggressive twist, the bullets are simply too slow to stabilize and were going wonky in some cases as 30 yards, by about 100 you were off and/or keyholing to beat hell. After all that you see more on the 200-180 grain bullets, something that can work and be functionally accurate in case you need it at that range. So one has to question the same about 90-100 grain bullets in 5.56, especially at lower velocities, at some point you just end up with keyholing, there is a limit to things. You bring things to the extreme and finally walk past the point of usefulness.

That's another thing about the 45 ACP in its potential, my Tommy gun can stabilize 300 grain flat nose bullets at 950 fps just fine and dandy, even with a rainbow trajectory they will remain accurate. Again, larger calibers seem to have less problems with rifle twist and bullet weights like the smaller ones do, they can run 180-300 grains and they will all be flying straight at the same FPS out the muzzle. 255 Keiths offer decent BC at those velocities and a good shape overall. May not be jacketed, but the handloader has a great selection of bullets and low pressure loads for sub sonic. I still think some of the 300 caliber 220 grain hype was trying to compete or play up to equality with the 45.

In 223, 75 grainers already prefer a 1:7 twist at full power loads, a 90 or even 100 slower is something to see.

>>667666

The only thing I could think of would be putting a can on the end to boost gas pressure. But I'm guessing you probably already did that as that's the only feasible reason you would get a subsonic version of a naturally super sonic cartridge. If you haven't gotten a suppressor or can't get one then I would look to see if you could get a gas booster muzzle device like on the AK74u if some one makes that for ARs. Or make one if you have a lathe. Its not that hard to get more pressure out of it.

>>667742

>1957

>soft armor

>>667756

>intelligent operators are still just using AKs and 7.62x39

That's a hot [CITATION NEEDED] right there. I thought only specific Russian troops were given 7.62 AKs under the guise of urban combat or some shit.

>>667816

>That's a hot [CITATION NEEDED] right there. I thought only specific Russian troops were given 7.62 AKs under the guise of urban combat or some shit.

That was a pretty big strawman of my post. I said 7.62x39 was a non-retarded choice for a subsonic .30 caliber, unlike .300 Blackout, and I established several reasons why - cost, convenience, ammo availability - not to mention other reasons besides those I listed exist. Where did my post say anything about militaries?

>>667712

If the 5.56 AR is the only rifle he's got, telling him to buy a 22lr is a shitty idea when subsonic ammo is achievable with what he already has. It would probably never cycle with 4 grains of trail boss, so treating it like a straight pull woyld be a better idea. The gun with a change in magazine would become a good dilent hunter- there wouldn't even be any bolt noise to alert any other rabbits in the area.

>>667820

"Operators" when not used in shitpost form usually means people who kick in doors for a living as the term once only applied to delta.

>>667712

Literally the only reason I'm doing it instead of 300 memeout is because its an M16a1 clone and I wanted to keep it the original calibre. Also I found out I wasn't using a carbine buffer it was just a medium rifle buffer, so I'll probably have to get a light BCG and spring. Also are there any stupidly heavy moulds for 223? I've looked everywhere and I can't find anything other than the same 55gr Lee mould

>>667833

Here.

http://arsenalmolds.com/products?limit=100&page=1

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=24&osCsid=0qvd7a44uo2lm1chgid2um19c4

Accurate molds does not do 22 molds for some reason.

>>667820

The problem with suppressed 7.62 AK's is parts breakages, the guns themselves weren't designed to be suppressed period, goes for AR's in that caliber as well for different reasons i.e the lugs being thin as fuck due to it being a standard .223 bolt being reamed out for the larger cartridge.

>>667833

Its literally a barrel swap from .223 to .300. It takes no time to swap around.

>>667910

>the guns themselves weren't designed to be suppressed period

No firearm is designed for that at the beginning except for guns whose main purpose is that, such as the integrally suppressed High Standard HDM, the Makarov PB, VSS Vintorez, etc. Most guns are not designed from the ground up even having barrel threading. Not only that, but the AR was never designed to be suppressed either, and they are infamously overgassed when using a suppressor, which causes wear on the bolt carrier, gas key, and buffer. That's not an argument against the AK platform.

>goes for AR's in that caliber as well for different reasons

Chambering has nothing to do with whether a gun is suppressor ready or not. It's all in the action and gas system.

>the lugs being thin as fuck due to it being a standard .223 bolt being reamed out for the larger cartridge.

Maybe you should try getting parts from a real manufacturer instead of some Brazilian monkeys with a drill press who think that you can just cut a heat treated part and have no repercussions from that.

Any potential issues with running a suppressor on an AK that are related to back-pressure are going to be caused by the rifle being overgassed to start with, which was a tuning choice the Soviets made when they switched from the AK to the AKM - that gas setting is why the AKM is known to recoil harshly. However, new production rifles from Izhevsk are not made this way and the gas system has changed a bit between the AKM and AK-74 to now. If you own a civilian market AK that still behaves like that, it might be shit. Most are.

>>667825

A 65 grain bullet with 4 grains of trailboss will not cycle even with a device to produce back pressure. The velocities were around 750fps +-50 and there was keyholing from 1 in 5 rounds within 5 yards.

He'll have to change the spring and mill the bolt, and might have to go as far as moving the gas block back. The problem is that even if he does get it to cycle, the accuracy is so poor that the rifle is basically useless.

>>667666

I'm glad to see you have received the mark of satan trips to bless your moronic idea. There are so many things wrong with the concept of subsonic .223/.224/5.56 that it's hard to know where to start…

Just for one example, I'm pretty sure none of the standard .223/5.56 twist rates will stabilize a subsonic bullet. I know comparing .223 to .22LR is sort of a meme, but in this case you are literally reducing your load to .23LR levels of power even if you use the heaviest long nose bullets available (90gr?).