/k/ - Weapons

>>646326

That's the AR-10 with the waffle mag, not the proto.

>see >>646326

>notice it uses the flat sided magazine well of the original AR10

>"no fucking way"

>check on brownells

>https://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/brn-10-308-20rd-waffle-magazine-prod123702.aspx?avs%7cCartridge_1=CTT_308%2bWinchester&avs%7cCapacity_1=20-Round

>This is the only magazine on the market that will fit and function in an original AR-10, as well as a modern BRN-10 or DPMS/SR-25 pattern rifle.

YES!

TAKE MY MONEY BROWNELLS

>>646325

good, ar's biggest drawback is that you cant romper stomp the bolt when a round gets stuck

I hope it turns out good, an all american hunk of steel copulated with a slavic qt and made this

>>646332

>ar's biggest drawback is that you cant romper stomp the bolt when a round gets stuck

You can put two fingers on the charging handle and then hit the stock on a hard surface, such as the ground, while pulling on the charging handle. Works on my 9mm AR when I pass the 500ish round count after a weekend of shooting. Then clean it out and it runs like a top until that point again.

>>646330

>SR-25 pattern mag that fits into original AR-10s too

Wew, nice

>>646336

Do you mean like an FNC? Because, there is a competent dust cover already on it.

>>646336

Are you fucking stupid? there is literally a dust cover in the pic.

>>646354

If you're complaining about the price on this, I've got bad news for you about the other AR-180 clones out there.

>>646354

For a good quality clone of a hard-to-find rifle that's pretty good.

Also this dude designing an AR180 lower.

>http://ar180s.com

>>646354

$800 isn't bad for that

>>646354

>$800

>expensive

Git gud

>>646639

Leafs are building the B model with a milled receiver and ambi controls.

If it is put on a SCR lower, is it a restricted firearm in Canada?

>>646354

800 for a complete upper is under 1000 dollars after a lower and sights. That's pretty reasonable for a new thing. Remember Brownells has 10% codes every few months, so it's closer to 720 for the upper. That's assuming it never goes down in price as the tooling is paid for, which it will.

>>646711

>B model

Disgraceful

>>646716

A very much needed modernization and upgrade to be honest.

>>646730

>aren't there other piston uppers that don't require a receiver extension?

"Other piston uppers" just have a piston slamming into a solid gas key, it's a retarded design.

>>646354

Fresh tooling and R&D makes the cost that high, which isn't too bad considering what you're getting for 800. A piston upper with a free floated barrel in the vein of the AR180, it's not at all bad. Just wait a year or two, you'll be able to get it for 600.

>>646740

I just want an underfolder stock for the AR by then. That'd be a nice little package.

>>646747

Get nigger rigging. Buy an AK underfolder and figure out how to attach it.

>>646730

There is a reason H&K, FN, and numerous others have damn near the same exact gas system. It's also the first piston AR upper that doesn't do it wrong as all fuck.

>>646330

they also just beat me to making a 25rnd AR15 magazine. fuckn neato

Any good folding stocks and adaptors? Unless the guy making the 18 lower offers a way to have a decent folding stock adaptor and stock similar to the original 18.

Or would it be better to go with a fixed stock for it?

>>646800

The MCX lower is good, but I don't know how cheaply they come. It'd hardly be authentic, though.

>>646735

>"Other piston uppers" just have a piston slamming into a solid gas key, it's a retarded design.

This.

The ar15 upper wasn't designed to withstand the carrier group torquing from a piston slamming into it.

Doing so will cause premature wear on the upper and eventually, unreliable feeding and bolt locking.

It may take thousands of rounds, but it will happen.

>>646737

>>646921

The long stroke piston AR15 uppers aren't as bad, the bolt carrier tilt problem is only a significant problem on short stroke designs.

The Ar180 sucks balls, I know it you know it. If you have have one you should get rid of it. I'll even take it off your hands for free and prove to you how bad it is.

>>646925

The 1:12 twist rate does.

>>646945

>less accurate, non-homogeneous, more expensive, heavier bullets that have shit terminal ballistics and effective range.

Tbh this only applies to FMJ bullets, soft points are a different story. Barrel sure wouldn't hurteven if going 18" is not a great loss, but higher SD bullets would retain energy better, have slightly better penetration, be as accurate and almost as flat shooting, instead extending effective range and improving terminal ballistics.

>>646945

I prefer my 75gr vaporizes the interior of deer out of a 20" barrel thank you very much.

>>646956

>leaf

Fuck off.

>>646975

>no counterpoint

You certainly showed how brilliant you are. I very much like my 3/4" group at 250 yards. Besides that if and when the day comes I'm not using gimped ass geneva convention ammo for as long as I can.

>>646976

How is that shit anyway?

>>646977

>How is that shit

My friend's Mossberg MVP has issues with light primer strikes, my Mini 15 and ARs have zero issue. I get better accuracy with the 62gr Frontier ammo than I do M855.

>>646999

*edit, Mini 14, typo…

>>647001

>2nd pic

Holy shit, that must be some serious pressure to tear the bolt carrier apart with the bolt still in the extension. However it appears that gun has quite a short barrel given that what appears to be the gas block is only ~6" from the barrel nut, probably a combination of short barrel with hot load resulting in the pressure during unlock being enough to not allow the bolt to extract the case and instead blow apart the bolt carrier. Because one thing that many people don't get about the AR15 is that it actually is a piston design, its just that the piston is the bolt itself and that seal that it makes with the bolt carrier can hold a significant amount of pressure which is why there are vent holes on the carrier but they can only do so much.

>>647014

NZ bro is 110% right. Which brings up a point, never go below a 11.5" upper without a heavy buffer (H2+) and an adjustable gas block. Even low tier PSA ARs with 11.5" barrels run fine, but the 10.5" ones have issues.

>>646325

Now what they really need to do is come out with a suite of gas block adapters in order to facilitate barrel swaps for caliber conversions and what not. A 300blk version would give the ammo a bit more punch and would run that much quieter surpressed. I hope to save my burgerbux for such an upper in the future!

>>647042

>$1 a round meme ammo that's just 7.62x39 But Worse

>not just buying one of the already available AR-18 based rifles in 7.62x39

>>647044

>Meme caliber

>Just a cut 223/5.56 casing with .308 projectiles ergo cheap brass and bullet selections

>Doesn't require a dedicated platform to use, just an upper/barrel swap with same bolt if desired

>Implying 220gr 7.62x39 isn't also a $1/round when 300blk is half that for both super and sub sonics

I don't even think comes in heavy for caliber loadings to be surpressed.

Let's be reasonable, its a do-it-all caliber with parts commonality with the venerated and bountiful AR platform. All I'm saying is that this system would be even more accessible if they provided gas plugs for different barrel widths as to allow for other barrels instead of the proprietary one used for only one barrel. The only short barreled AR-180 based pistol is the SIG, and they want almost triple for what brownells can accomplish by making barrel swaps easier.

>>647085

>$1 a round for 7.62x39

>hurrrr there is totally no commercial market for this 80 year old cartridge

>buy this overpriced barrel in this overpriced cartridge to save you nothing except the price of a new magazine

>don't just use the more plentiful x39 uppers and mags, or buy an AK in the first place for identical ballistics and wider variety

Just pull x54R bullets and you get a well-made 200gr solid projectile, you absolute mongoloid. You can buy this shit for under $0.50/round or handload it for even cheaper. People have been making subsonic x39 for ages this way. You know your meme cartridge is garbage when the defense of it relies entirely on intellectual dishonesty and imagining that a superior, more available, non-proprietary option didn't already exist on the market.

>I don't even think comes in heavy for caliber loadings to be surpressed.

>Implying 220gr 7.62x39 isn't also a $1/round

>>>>I don't even think comes in heavy for caliber loadings to be surpressed.

<Implying 220gr 7.62x39 isn't also a $1/round

Even if you weren't contradicting yourself in the same breath without even a hint of irony, you would have no argument. Why don't you make smart purchasing decisions buying guns in real life instead of LARPing?

>>647090

Blackout isn't proprietary anymore, is it? They went the whole SAAMI route.

>>647090

>Intellectual dishonesty

>Doesn't tell me how

>Proprietary

There are 20x more availability for ss 300blk than 7.62x39 ss on any website of your choosing. Not to mention that AK barrel/piston design makes them near impossible to properly surpress and the retarded thread pitch makes such surpressors de facto proprietary. To be fair…

>I don't even think comes in heavy for caliber loadings to be surpressed.

I forgot to delete this once I did some rudimentary research for ss comblok ammo. 5 vendors for it and every one of them was from some reloading/jerryrigging bubba type. Compared to multiple companies offering new, professionally manufacture ss 300blk. I hope someone at brownells has a brain, because 300blk is hamstrung by DI or ultra expensive meme designs unless they have 16+ in barrels and this is a great way to increase adoption.

>>647044

>.300BLK

>$1 per round

I reload it at about $0.35NZD (both 110gr supers and 235gr subs) per round and get the brass from a guy who converts once fired 5.56 brass to .300BLK

>>647090

>Just pull x54R bullets and you get a well-made 200gr solid projectile

Why would I go to that effort when I can buy any one of the numerous heavy .308 sized bullets available for less than the price of a x54r?

>>647091

Correct, the .300 Whisper was somewhat proprietary but no one uses that anymore since .300BLK became the popular cartridge.

>>647127

>300blk is hamstrung by DI

[Citation Needed]

>>647192

Despite my best efforts to research that, I can't find anything to corroborate it. Even if its just conjecture, a system forcing more gas to be behind the projectile before it leaves the barrel will exert more force than a system that requires some of that same gas to be bled in order to operate the action. But there's plenty of media that shows that pistons can be more accurate at least. I just wonder why that isn't more of a thing.

>I dream of someone making an AR180 with a milled reciever instead of a stamped one

See, that's the problem with firearms designed around stamped components right there. Stamping is an excellent process for high volume production as it allows you to make lightweight receivers and other components for almost no material or machine time cost. The problem with stamping is that practically all the costs of production are tied up in the initial, enormous capital expenses of presses, tooling, and the fixturing needed to accurately rivet/weld in the trunnions in a repeatable/durable fashion. If you're planning to make 50,000 rifles for a government contract you're all good as the per-unit cost will still be lower than a milled/machined part as those capital expenses get spread over a large number of units that only contain pennies worth of material. However, when you're making a niche collector's item, you're forced to spread tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars over a relative handful of units. This is the reason why most American made AKs suck shit, the only way to keep the per-unit cost down is to cut enormous corners in the areas of tooling/fixturing (shit fixtures are why nearly all American AKs have shit riveting or excess wear due to misaligned trunnions). PTR is the only company I know of doing niche stamped firearms correctly but they also inhereted all the original CETME tooling, fixturing, and also blueprints for all of it.

Wishing for a milled version of a stamped receiver may seem like the next best thing but milling a receiver compatible with an originally stamped design means weight and cost go *way* up. A milled AK weighs roughly 2lbs more than a stamped AKM and the machine time needed to mill out such a complex part from such a large block of steel increases the per-unit cost tremendously. ARs get away with using a fully machined receiver because the market demand is so high that high quality castings are able yo be mass produced, allowing half the work to be eliminated by casting the receiver in its rough outline. That kind of demand doesn't exist for any other rifle desogn so you'll be stuck starting with basic bar stock and a lengthy and expensive machining process that increases the overall cost far beyond what most people are willing to pay.

>>647001

While I've only shot around 100 something rounds of that hornady shit, I didn't have any problems of the like.

>>647267

>ARs get away with using a fully machined receiver because the market demand is so high that high quality castings are able yo be mass produced, allowing half the work to be eliminated by casting the receiver in its rough outline.

AR receivers are forged, not cast. Otherwise you're correct, the actual machining done on AR receivers is comparatively small, it's just drilling a fwe holes.

>>647001

Damn that ain't good.

>>646999

M855 and M193 aren't exactly accurate rounds compared to civilian shit.

>>647253

You don't seem to understand the mechanics of gas systems in gas operated semi auto firearms. There are numerous factors which go into the performance of such a system, such as bore size, bullet velocity at each point in the barrel, powder charge, dwell time, gas port size, pressure at gas port, if the gun as a suppressor (makes a big difference to some guns), etc. Some guns has gas systems which take a large volume of gas off close to the muzzle (M1, Colt Dizzy, etc) while most take smaller amounts off a little over half way down the barrel. Its not the amount of gas which is taken off but the amount of energy that it carries since you are using it to do work (cycle the action). In this respect there are few differences between DI vs SS Piston vs LS Piston since all systems are performing the same basic job, take some of the gas in the barrel and convert it into work to overcome the mainspring.

Also going from a bolt gun (no gas system) in .300blk to an AR15 ("the worst gas system" according to your implications) in .300blk with equal barrel length only produces a small decrease in velocity. There are numerous reasons which contribute to this but the biggest two are:

>.300blk gets its biggest gain in velocity within the first 6" of barrel (which is where the gas port is on a pistol length gas system is located)

>gas systems bleed off only a small amount of gas in the barrel to a much lower pressure

>>647381

I'm not the most well versed, but please notice that my original request is to make an AR 180 pistol that doesn't suffer from the setback of a gas system that syphons the gas away from the bullet. The sig rattler is the only such offering, but its billed as being compact, suppress-able and working, not being accurate and allowing full powder burn. A 10-12inch 300blk pistol would be awesome if it can be done at half the price of the competition, even if it isn't the most elegant solution.

>>647453

>12" .300 BLK

You realise a 10mm Auto in the same barrel length would have superior performance and be cheaper to feed, right?

>>647457

>10mm firing 110gr @ >2000fps and >1000ft/lbs

>Firing 10mm past 300m

>Falling for the pcc meme

I know you mean well, but I'm just looking for versatility in loads and game using off the shelf components, not specialized range toys.

>>647489

>Hornady Vol. 10

My nigga!

>>647489

They could have just as easily made a wide selection of x39, that's not an argument. The entire reason .300 even exists is to convert an AR into something that fires a x39 "like" cartridge, but with one fewer part to swap out to make the conversion.

That's it.

One fewer part for a conversion, there's no other reason for .300blk to exist.

>>649348

If you try to argue with someone who clearly has buyer's remorse or doesn't understand the subject due to being a LARPer, you will always lose. In their mind, no argument is an argument because they believe it.

>>649348

>One fewer part for a conversion, there's no other reason for .300blk to exist.

And the fact that 7.62x39 STANAG mags are kind of universally horrible.

>>649348

>They could have just as easily made a wide selection of x39, that's not an argument

I'm pretty sure other anon's point was that there was already a wide selection of .308 bullets, thanks to interchangeability with bullets originally made for 7.62x51. Also, regular ARs can't feed 7.62x39 for shit, so if you don't want to go with a lower that takes AK mags you have to goo .300 BLACKED out.

>>649348

Its not for his benefit, I'm not going to let his statements stand unchallenged.

>>649446

None of those are design advantages, they're situational advantages. By that logic .22lr is superior because there is, situationally, a fucktonne of this type of ammunition produced.

>>649571

I'm not saying they are design advantages. I don't think the other guy did either, he just said "advantage" without a qualifier. No one is contradicting your claim that, in a vacuum, 7.62x39 has better design characteristics than .300 memeout. But the average consumer choosing between those two platforms is not operating in a vacuum, he's operating in the American market with all of the limitations and caveats that entails. In that scenario, what you call "situational advantages" absolutely do matter, because they are reflective of what the average consumer is actually capable of achieving. To use another example: 5.7x28's primary disadvantages in the civilian market are the lack of AP ammo, the lack of select-fire guns to shoot it, and the expense, all of which are "situational advantages" and not "design advantages." Are you going to tell people that they should go with the 5.7 meme over the far more practical .22 WMR just because the 5.7 has a design advantage?

>>649348

Buddy, don't strawman. The main advantage of 300blk is being able to use subs in an AR platform without turning it into a single shot. Secondary is that the round hits harder than 5.56 at distance, requiring only a barrel swap to do so. This is because most engagements, even in places like afghanistan, are within 300m, with DMs taking over since the M4s shorter barrels kill the power and speed of 5.56. Why buy a rifle and ammo for a weapon that's harder to surpress overall when you can just get a new upper with parts interchangability and projectile choice. Choice is the strength of blackout, everyone acknowledges that x39 has better supersonic ballistics. Hell, who's to say that Brownells shouldn't also make a x39 barrel for the same system, allowing the use of comblok magwell lowers? Still would make it harder to surpress, faggot

>>649776

>The main advantage of 300blk is being able to use subs in an AR platform without turning it into a single shot.

Its main advantage is an arbitrary claim based on nothing that doesn't even reflect reality? Funny. You know guys use suppressors on ARs of all length without malfunction, right, and the only issue with it is backpressure and a difference in dwell time which are entirely due to the gas piston being located inside the bolt carrier, something that changing cartridges would have no effect on at all?

>Still would make it harder to surpress, faggot

Based on what, retard? There is nothing magic about the .300 BLK case design or factory loads. There is also nothing preventing anyone from making subsonic loads of 7.62x39, as several guys in this thread have already pointed out. Would you also claim that .308 Winchester is 'easier to suppress' than 7.62x51 just because the standard military load, M80 Ball, doesn't use a superheavy bullet? You know Black Hills developed 90gr and 100gr 5.56 projectiles for subsonic loads, right? It's been said before but I really feel like I have to hammer it since you're so dense - it is really fucking obvious that ignorance is the only reason anyone falls for the .300 Memeout.

>>649792

>Arbitrary

Notice I said subsonics (subs). 5.56 subs turn an M4 into a straight pull .22lr, 300blk allows the use of the same bolt while allowing enough pressure to cycle the action. Lets not act as though SOCOM themselves didn't test all these weirdo short action AR calibers (6.5grendel, 6.8spc, .458socom, .50beowulf, etc) and moved away from them since they required too many proprietary parts to maintain and use. As a civilian, 300blk is the best compromise between ballistics and expense to allow an AR to fire a variety of loads, even if the military themselves moved away from it eventually.

>Based on what?

Bullet diameter. Most .30 surpressors are for .308" diameter projectiles and 5/8x24 threads. Most x39 surpressors are tailor made for .311" projectiles and that weird 14x1 left hand thread. Not to mention that x39 AKs weren't originally designed to be surpressed, with performance and durability suffers due to the extra stress on the piston and surpressor. This is said even of AK aficionados.

I'll probably get one when it comes to Canada.

5.56 is cool but fuck that shit while innawoods here.

>>653867

You have access to the wk-180c, look it up, leaf.

>>653873

I hate the pop tart holder it has.

Canadian companies are also pumping out shit black rifles and getting away with it as well.

>>653876

Piece of ducktape fixes that problem of ambi controls or learn the funs and joys of rubber molding.

>>653876

>pop tart holder

Come on now, unless you plan on firing whilst in a mud puddle, its not a big deal. and it would be much easier to clear than say an AK.

>>653899

>>653895

We will see. I don't see any new guns in my immediate future so I have time to think about it.

>>653966

Those buffer tubes also don't bend due to the reinforcements. If you do bayonet drill on an AR, it's more than likely that you're going to bend the buffer tube, which stops it from cycling.

>>653974

>If you do bayonet drill on an AR, it's more than likely that you're going to bend the buffer tube, which stops it from cycling.

I'm fairly certain that's fuddlore. I want to say the myth started with a scene in Heartbreak Ridge where Clint Eastwood tomahawks a M16 prop across a tree and breaks it in half at the stock extension, but I can't verify it one way or the other.

>>654029

just say you don't like it because those fags from inrangetv jerk it off, no need to lie to us

>>654029

Do you even know what cucked means?

>>654226

You're responding to Spergkike.