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There's no discharge in the war!

File: a514096dac1ef1b⋯.jpg (427.69 KB, 1012x1516, 253:379, 15625971_1194157880667507_….jpg)

f73e9a  No.645937

A coup has occurred and now you have been made the Minister of Munitions of an unspecified European nation state.

You are responsible for finding the means to develop and produce all equipment of the armed forces of a regional power.

This is limited to military, not civil industry, though some overlap is inevitable.

You may provide as much or as little information as you like although the King/Duce/Tsar/Führer/Supreme Leader is particularly interested in your views on the following:

>What balance should be struck between private and state run industry?

>Should R&D be handled by the private or public sector?

>If private industry exists, should the state keep them afloat if they encounter financial difficulties?

>How heavily centralized should factories be? (As in physical location, do you disperse in shadow factories or keep it all together for efficency?)

>Are you concerned about sabotage or air raids, and if so how do you propose we handle them?

>How do you retain skilled engineers during the 'off cycle'? (ie. between procurement cycles)

>How do you avoid retards getting emotionally attached to an idea that lacks real merit. (Cavalry is still relevant!!!1!)

>How do you ensure cost effectiveness of equipment?

>How do you avoid mission creep?

>How do you strike a balance between primitive but effective technologies with promising but unproven technologies? [Like "Superiority" by Arthur C. Clarke.]

>[Any good questions that are brought up in this thread.]

8988fb  No.645942

>What balance should be struck between private and state run industry?

As much as each party is willing to invest.

>Should R&D be handled by the private or public sector?

R&D can be handled each party, but grants may be given if the research is within state interests.

>If private industry exists, should the state keep them afloat if they encounter financial difficulties?

Nationalize a few key companies, sell/liquidate the rest.

>How heavily centralized should factories be? (As in physical location, do you disperse in shadow factories or keep it all together for efficency?)

This will depend on what products are being produced in each factory. Products that require assembly can be manufactured in a central location for efficient logistics and can be easily defended as the state's armed forces do not have to travel far to defend them though it may make them a target for carpet bombing. Food production can be spread out, cause y'know: farms.

>Are you concerned about sabotage or air raids, and if so how do you propose we handle them?

AA deterrence for air strikes, security guards or police for sabotage. Not much concern if during a peaceful period of time but precautions must be taken to defend infrastructure and industries vital to the state.

>How do you retain skilled engineers during the 'off cycle'? (ie. between procurement cycles)

Hire skilled procurement engineers/HR guys. They know what to do.

>How do you avoid retards getting emotionally attached to an idea that lacks real merit. (Cavalry is still relevant!!!1!)

Bitch slap them.

>How do you ensure cost effectiveness of equipment?

Ensure that there is a competitive market for equipment. ie no monopolies allowed.

>How do you avoid mission creep?

Define the scope and objectives of the mission

with clearly defined completion criteria. These objectives must always be able to be achieved quickly with as little loss or as much gain as possible. The scope must clearly define the limits of the mission. Commit to the scope and the objectives until mission completion.

>How do you strike a balance between primitive but effective technologies with promising but unproven technologies? [Like "Superiority" by Arthur C. Clarke.]

Experiment on the new technologies on the battlefield using old technologies as a control on a sample of units. Use the scientific process, cost and risk analysis to determine which new tech is worth having and which old tech must go.


f73e9a  No.645952

>>645942

>As much as each party is willing to invest.

You are in charge of the military industry. You are the one running the state run industry. How much are you willing to invest?

>but grants may be given if the research is within state interests.

Good point, having R&D limited to the state can lead to bureaucratic inefficiencies and a lack of competition however the private industry tends to risk averse. Both should be run in parallel imo.

>Nationalize a few key companies, sell/liquidate the rest.

Which ones?

>They know what to do.

The grorious reader does not trust the communists in HR know what to do. He wants you to propose a plan.

>Bitch slap them.

If only I could do that to some of you niggers here on /k/.

I dig the other points. I'm looking forward to see the poli-sci magyar's opinion on this and seeing some serious discussion regarding military industry.


2fdb14  No.646037

File: ffe3d64078e52de⋯.webm (11.22 MB, 640x480, 4:3, The_Money_Masters_Full_Do….webm)

A more basic problem has to be addressed if you want to discuss economy: money and taxation. Without writing an essay on central banks and fiat money, it has to be said that the state is forced to act like if money was still precious metal flowing through the world that they has to take away from the people, even though this is not the case anymore. To build an economy that can shoulder the burdens of an army fit for a world war, you first need to take direct and absolute control of the monetary system. It's quite simple in practice: switch to digital money, and make it a closed system independent of international shenanigans. The ministry of finance is the master of this system, and its up to them to create new money, or withdraw money from the system, or devaluate or revaluate it.

Now that it's done, you have to reform taxation too. Currently it either punishes people for taking part in the economy, or punishes them for simply owning something. I mean, you can sit on a fortune for decades without paying a single penny, but the moment you buy something or make even a miniscule amount of profit you are forced to pay taxes. In the second case you might have to pay taxes simply for owning a car or some land. Instead of either of these you should tax money itself. That is, withdraw a percentage from every account once every month. Even if its just 1%, the state has now 1% of all money in its pockets for that single month. You might scream about how its unfair to those people who don't do anything with their money, but I simply don't care. It's much worse to retard the whole economy, like how the current system does it. Of course, you should have a budget for the year, e.g. if you have 100 trillion units of digital currency, and you have a budget of 12 trillion for this year, then the monthly tax will be indeed 1%, regardless of the actual amount of money on a single account. But if the state still has 2 trillion from last year, then they will only have to tax 10 trillion this year, and so the monthly tax goes under 1%. Or if the budget is the same as last year, yet you still have 2 trillion from last year, then you can bring it down to 10 trillion, and you will only have to tax 8 trillion.

You could also do some positively insane things to fight inflation. E.g. even during the most insane hyperinflation you can just have the system automatically devaluate the money every minute, so that people literally wouldn't notice that they are living through a monetary apocalypse. Of course it's not a substitute of responsible monetary policy, but it would give you the upper hand in economic warfare. And if you have done all of this, then you can boot most of the pencil pushers whose only job was to make the previous system of taxation work. You'd just need a small team of people to replace thousands-upon-thousands of bureaucrats. And you could get rid of even more bureaucrats if you just end the welfare state. And of course you'd also need to collect less taxes if you don't have to pay welfare, and that would make the economy even healthier.


22e99e  No.646042

<What balance should be struck between private and state run industry?

The more privatized the better. It's still far from perfect as the government is a monopsonist with a near-infinite willingness-to-pay, and there's still plenty of room for pork barrels, backroom deals, and so on, but much less so than with state-run businesses. If you want to see an example of this just look at M-14 trials and the shitshow state-run companies caused.

<Should R&D be handled by the private or public sector?

See above. No gov grants to private research either, as that will just lead to research project grinding to a near-halt and continually demanding more money before they can make any progress.

<If private industry exists, should the state keep them afloat if they encounter financial difficulties?

Nein. If you can't stay alive without gibs you don't deserve to live.

<How heavily centralized should factories be?

Seeing as the industry is privatized, market forces would dictate that. However, manufacturing industries tend to greatly benefit from economies of scale, so we can expect to see factories to be more centralized than not. We don't see this in the current defense industry because they're spread out over as many congressional districts as possible to max out pork, and make them harder to close down.

<Are you concerned about sabotage or air raids, and if so how do you propose we handle them?

That's best handled by the Minister of Internal Security, not me. I'll work closely with him and seek recommendations before making a decisions. This would be another reason in addition to economies of scale to centralize the industry, as you wouldn't have to worry about security in transit nearly as much, and transit in between two locations is where security tends to be weakest.

<How do you retain skilled engineers during the 'off cycle'? (ie. between procurement cycles)

Why is that a necessity? No need to pay money for people that aren't doing anything, let them use their skills in other sectors when they aren't needed. For exceptionally skilled people that are hard to replace, there are options available. For instance, you could pay them a retainer in much the same way lawyers are–a lump sump equal to x billable hours that obligates them to provide you those hours sometime in the future, should you ask for them.

<How do you avoid retards getting emotionally attached to an idea that lacks real merit. (Cavalry is still relevant!!!1!)

As long as I'm in power, publicly shame them for their idiocy and force them to watch poorly animated infographic videos that show why they're wrong. on repeat. But ideally there'd be a system in place that works independent of the guy in charge.

That's a hard one to answer whenever we're talking about a centralized, bureaucratic system such as the military. One possible option is to slightly decentralize the procurement system, e.g. allow individual brigades or batallions to make their own procurement decisions. This allows for the opportunity for different equipment and different doctrines to be tried out, and to see how they work in the field. The problem of course is that this could end up being a logistic nightmare and very expensive to maintain. You'd need to arrange some kind of incentives system in the budget to allow for that–one thought that comes to mind is telling companies to supply their shit in limited quantities to a unit for free, which then tests them, and if the stuff performs well they get considered for the next major contract. Alternatively, units could only deviate from the standard if it's cheaper for them to use their special snowflake stuff.

<How do you ensure cost effectiveness of equipment?

Heavy competition between suppliers. Part of this will mean seeking out contracts from all companies, not just domestic ones. More rapid re-evaluation cycles instead of long, safe contracts that lets suppliers sit on their laurels. Brigades picking out their own shit will help competition as well, as the military will become less of a monopsonist and more like multiple independent consumers.

<How do you avoid mission creep?

That's basically the same as cost effectiveness, so see above.

<How do you strike a balance between primitive but effective technologies with promising but unproven technologies?

Most expedient way is to take the unproven technologies and make them proven. If we're doing the by-brigade procurement option autism highlighted above, then you could also provide incentives for individual units to test out new shit and evaluate it.


c56be1  No.646054

>>646037

Ridiculous.


0f200c  No.646082

>>646037

>"let's use my own money independent on international money, make a closed system essentially, that I don't back with anything"

<"wtf why do other countries not accept my money????"

<"wtf, how am I supposed to do imports now, my industry has no resources to fuel it!"

<"why are the people pissed? it's not like they need to buy anything from abroad!"


22e99e  No.646090

>>646037

This is what the retardation that happens when you know fiat money is bad but you don't understand why. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.


8988fb  No.646112

>>645952

>You are in charge of the military industry. You are the one running the state run industry. How much are you willing to invest?

1.5% of the state's GDP seems healthy. If that's not enough sell war bonds.

>Which ones?

Keep at least one of each company that produces arms and equipment or services to the state. Redundant or underperforming companies get sold off or liquidated.

Also forgot to mention that small businesses like "ma & pa" shops that support these main industries could become coops or take loans if they get into financial trouble.

>The grorious reader does not trust the communists in HR know what to do. He wants you to propose a plan.

brb, groriousry reading up on head hunting.


713196  No.646119

>>646082

Lmao, just conquer the world, you're the Herrenvolk chosen people and the rest are vaguely human-shaped animals created by god to serve you.

Then you won't need imports.


a20eec  No.646143

>>646082

<"wtf why do other countries not accept my money????"

<"wtf, how am I supposed to do imports now, my industry has no resources to fuel it!"

Didn't Uncle Adolf just go to straight up barter at that point? "Hello diplomatic and economic partner, wanna swap strategic resources?"


2c3b38  No.646147

>>646054

Not anymore ridiculous than the current system. And is has been proven to work before. See for example the Worgl experiment.

>>646090

There is nothing inherently wrong with fiat money, it all depends on how it is implemented.

I'd give a country that implemented the system proposed in >>646037

a much better chance for success than one moving to the gold standard.


55e269  No.646173

>>646147

>There is nothing inherently wrong with fiat money, it all depends on how it is implemented.

>Where is the money's value derived from

<Dude just trust me, ok?

What an amazing system.


6c2f28  No.646175

>>646173

in the end, everything goes back to trust

why does that shiny rock have a value? because we agreed it does. without all of humanity agreeing its pretty and important, it would be just another rock.

we are just deluding ourselfs it has any value. so why not do that with other things?


3c8afd  No.646184

>>646175

There's a difference. People value shiny rocks all on their own; you might think it's 'irrational' for them to like shiny rocks to such a degree, but that's a decision they reached of their own volition, and it's a decision they'll reach independent of who rules them or how. The green pieces of paper are not given valued independently, they're only valuable because one man in a funny hat says they are. And if the man loses his funny hat, or someone takes the funny hat, or if people decide the funny hat isn't that funny anymore, the paper just becomes paper.

In other words, while both valuations are subjective (by definition, all value is subjective), gold's subjective value is naturally emergent in the market, while fiat is an artificial declaration. The former is inherently more stable than the latter, regardless of who declares the fiat or how. Insisting that fiat will work if only /ourguy/ is in charge of it is not-real-socialism tier argumentation.

And that's not even getting into the inflationary issues with the fiat system (and the hun clearly has no idea how inflation works), or the further business cycle issues that arise from those inflationary ones.

>>646147

>Not anymore ridiculous than the current system.

Considering the wholesale clownshow that is the current system, that's not saying much. And the hun's system is even worse, in every possible way. For starters, he demands that the monetary system is closed off completely; this is retarded because the only reason the current system works at all is because it's wide open, and the US takes advantage of that via the petrodollar to export its inflation overseas, as foreign countries hold large quantities of USD to purchase oil—if it wasn't for that ability to print money, then making sure said money won't return to the US, the system would have collapsed decades ago, instead of being on the verge of collapsing in a few years. He doesn't see that taxing people simply for having money retards growth just as much if not more than taxing them for profit—it discourages people from saving, which decreases funds available for investment and causes people to become high time-preference consumers instead, and contrary to mainstream ideas consumption does not drive the economy. In addition to that, you discourage people from having money at all. Since his money is digitized and no one can store it outside of the state-controlled banks, they'll just start converting money to another asset (such as, you know, gold) and trade that instead. So this system will be not only retard growth, it will severely retard revenue as well as people stop using the state's money. His idea for "fixing" inflation isn't even a solution, it's just a description of the inflationary process. He says you can combat inflation (a process of money becoming less valuable) by constantly devaluing money. He wants to stop inflation through inflation. At least that's what I assume he's saying—devaluation normally refers to lowering the value of your money compared to other currencies, and since there are no exchange rates in this closed system you can't really do that. Therefore I am forced to speculate as to what he actually means by devaluation, since he's not even using the term properly.


c61232  No.646187

File: 94e870509f462c2⋯.png (85.99 KB, 406x406, 1:1, 1485707155020.png)


55e269  No.646216

>>646175

>why does that shiny rock have a value?

Pick any

>Limited amount compared to paper

>Plenty of uses in electronics, medicine

>Shiny and pretty, looks well as jewelry or decorations

>doesn't oxidize, decompose, rot, spoil

>>646214

>You print 500 dollars

>go to jail forever for a serious incel terrorist felony

>A jew prints 500 billion dollars

>Economic stimulus package


fad64d  No.646219

>>646184

You would have been better off stating something along the lines of "if the man loses the funny hat, people get shot until they insist he's still wearing his funny hat when he's not."


22e99e  No.646255

>>646214

You realize >>646184 was agreeing with that sentiment, right?


0f200c  No.646260

>>646187

>pointing out why something is retarded makes me a kike

lol ok


3a8a31  No.646290

The Worgl experiment suggests that a nation might best be served by simultaneously having two currencies- one a fiat paper currency that depreciates at a fixed rate, and can be used for international trade, and another that does not depreciate, perhaps made from specie, and used only for internal trade in parallel to the first.


22e99e  No.646298

>>646290

I'm inclined to disagree. If you applied Worgl for a longer period of time you'd have seen a bank run occur, as once the immediate utility of the money is realized they would want to exchange it for some other standard of exchange en masse. The same thing would happen if you attempted to use depreciating currency on an international level; you might see some short-term increases in money velocity and in trade with you due to countries not wanting to hold your money, but after that initial windfall you'd see the international equivalent of a run on your currency, as other nations wouldn't want to hold it at all. Trade with you would decrease, and that trade that does happen would be in other standards of exchange. Better to just stick with commodity money all the way around. https://mises.org/library/free-money-miracle

>>646297

Well, the reply you made implied disagreement, and appeared directed purely at >>646175 –since you made no response to >>646184 specifically, but quoted both in your disagreement. Why quote the former if you only intend to reply to the latter?


3a8a31  No.646303

>>646298

I disagree- existing currencies devalue regularly under the form of inflation, and selling off such currency to foreign nations would be the best bet, in the same way the US has used the dollar as the international trade currency for oil. Doing so with a deliberately devaluing currency ensures the best use of that currency is to buy products from the originating nation, fortifying the economy and the industry.

Notice I said to use two parallel currencies, one being the worgl-type currency, the other being a specie currency. Your pay could come as a 50/50 split or some other proportion.

Using the devaluing currency (but NOT the specie currency) for international trade would ensure value flowed into the nation, instead of out of it as would happen with commodity money.


22e99e  No.646304

>>646303

> existing currencies devalue regularly under the form of inflation

That's different, because they're all inflating at roughly the same rate (save for shitholes like Occupied Rhodesia)–and they're all inflating at the same rate because, at least for the time being, most monetary policy in the world is an extension of US monetary policy. But that's not a state of affairs that will last indefinitely, and we're already seeing the first cracks in the system.

>selling off such currency to foreign nations would be the best bet, in the same way the US has used the dollar as the international trade currency for oil

I did touch on that above–the petrodollar is advantageous in that it allows the US to inflate its currency without the domestic price level inflating as much, but it doesn't change anything beyond the short run–we're already starting to see the beginnings of a petrodollar collapse as more countries leave the standard. It's a temporary high at best, and the gains from such a practice come back as losses with interest before too long.

In more general terms, it seems like what you're advocating for is another form of mercantilism–the predilection with not wanting specie to flow out of an economy. Mercantilism fails for a variety of reasons, but the primary one is that it becomes untenable once multiple countries start participating–it's physically impossible for everyone to maintain a trade surplus, and physically impossible for everyone to have a net inflow of gold.


0f200c  No.646337

>>646304

>but the primary one is that it becomes untenable once multiple countries start participating–it's physically impossible for everyone to maintain a trade surplus, and physically impossible for everyone to have a net inflow of gold.

Isn't the idea that some of the participants will simply fold? That's not a negative outcome scenario for the other participants


6c2f28  No.646338

>>646337

>Isn't the idea that some of the participants will simply fold? That's not a negative outcome scenario for the other participants

but its negative for my participant. why should l care about others? why would l want to make my country eternal slave of gold holding countries?


ddee54  No.646342

I still can't decide between the gold standard and fiat money, but my opinion is that currency should be based on actual valuable resources such as oil or pure energy, though more on the latter.

Either ways, most of OP questions can be solved by having a military not based around pleasing greedy kikes.

The matter of private industry vs national industry, it should be private industry be the ones in charge of making designs WHILE the national industry is in charge of making the actual stuff. Actual, government holds all the license contracts, and once the design/model is approved, it should become open free for all model, which means ALL of the private industries and national industries can legally produce and sell said model to military/police/civies.

inb4 but muh lack of profit

The original firm that comes up with the design can earn royalties for the first 5-10 years


3a8a31  No.646344

>>646338

>>646304

Why the hell are you basing your nations internationally-tradeable currency on gold (or silver)?

Notice I said to use the specie money for national trading, and that the fiat money should be used for international trade, in addition to it's use for internal trade.

The specie currency would never be used for international trade, only the devaluing fiat currency would, this is to encourage other nations to buy your nations' products with it to encourage autarky wherever possible. The rest of international trade could be performed in non-monetary barter exchange of goods (trading wheat from nation A for steel from nation B, for example).

I swear, you're too hung up on the (((economics))) of money.


6a2ffa  No.646555

>>646344

Because you want your money to have the characteristics of money (stable, standard of exchange, store of value), and only specie provide that. Making your money undesirable to hold won't encourage trade in the long term, it just discourages people from trading with you at all. And you can't truly have two separate currencies for domestic and international trade, not truly, as people will be constantly exchanging the two respective currencies. All that would happen if you have this depreciating "international" currency is that no one would hold it for any length of time–they'd set up their trade agreements such that they use other currencies for almost everything, at the last possible moment switch to the depreciating currency for a millisecond, which is then immediately converted to something else. So all you've done is increase the cost of transactions with your country by introducing that artificial switching cost, and increased cost of transactions will ultimately reduce the volume of transactions that occur.

>I swear, you're too hung up on the (((economics))) of money.

>you're too hung up on using the science of money on money

K.

>>646438

>I can see how some consumer goods might be slightly more expensive and lower quality, but given the benefit to national economy, how is that "failing"?

What benefit? The purpose of an economy is to provide higher quality and lower cost goods, if your economy isn't doing those things it's failing by definition.

>Everybody bitches when their chinkshit starts selling for $6.72 instead of $4.87 because of import tax, but then they bitch about how there's nothing but chinkshit at the store and no work. It's gotta be one or the other.

A) Most people are NPCs that don't understand cause and effect. Look at how many people shill for socialism, then it's those same people who bitch about everyone starving.

B) Because many people talk the talk but won't walk the walk. They say they want to buy domestic, but they don't want it enough to justify paying the higher price, so they don't.

C) Because there isn't a casual link between current unemployment and outsourcing, despite claims to the contrary. International trade will always increase unemployment in the long run, because of muh comparative advantage–there's some short term unemployment, yes, but it disappears relatively quickly. And even in the case of short-term unemployment, you can only attribute less than a third of lost manufacturing jobs in the US to chinkshit. The rest were lost to increasing automations, increasing regulations, union kikery, and a host of other factors. Chinkshit is just a convenient scapegoat so all of the unemployment is blamed on it.

>All I care about is that MY country has no deficit.

It's literally a non-issue, "muh trade deficit" is a Keynesian spook. If you visit a restaurant every week and buy food from it, and you never sell your services to that restaurant, you have a "trade deficit" with that restaurant. But who gives a shit? As long as you're making enough money to pay for that expenditure it isn't a problem. The same applies on a macro scale to nations: it doesn't matter whether you have a net trade surplus or a net trade deficit, as long as your export sectors are relatively strong. And that's the real problem with the current US economy, our export sectors are continually weakened by increasing regulation, unions, minimum wage laws, and so on. We still have a comparative advantage in some areas (because that's the definition of comparative advantage, you can never not have it), but that advantage is much smaller than it could be, and that's reflected in our terms of trade, which are favorable (they're by definition favorable, if there wasn't a net benefit we wouldn't trade), but our net benefit is smaller than our trade partner's net benefit. Strengthening the export sector would make those terms of trade more favorable. Restricting the import sector doesn't do that, it just raises domestic prices and makes domestic companies less competitive.


b25b7e  No.646783

>>646337

Well your participant wouldn't expect to be the one getting fucked, naturally.


e337e7  No.646824

>>645937

>eliminate all personal arms restrictions

>issue letters of marque and reprisal

>establish prize courts

>disband the military

>auction off all existing military assets to domestic contractors

>sink or swim: no subsidies, no bailouts, no special favors

Done. National defense now not only doesn't cost any tax money, but it's actually taxable revenue. Widespread availability of weapons means a thriving militia, and privateers (not pirates; there are prize courts, remember?) have an excellent record of success. All the other concerns you listed are handled by the interests involved.


6c2f28  No.646840

>>646824

>but it's actually taxable revenue

so how do you take taxes from people that are more armed then you? like, shit, what prevents them from just going

>lol nope not paying you you are my bitch and YOU should be paying me from now on?


e337e7  No.646864

>>646840

You could revoke their letter and declare them a pirate? Now it's them versus all the other privateers.




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