/k/ - Weapons

Reminder that Karl and Ian shilled this piece of a giant, steamy, greasy turd

>11lbs because they made the reviver an inch thick for no reason

>doesn't even externally look like a StG because of how they changed all the stamping and strengthening ribs for no reason

>shitty G3 trigger because "it's easy"

>shitty plastic mags

>StG44/MKb 42(H) hybrid mutant

>doesn't work

>doesn't exist

You bought a shitty copy rather than the superior original

>>642946

>he preordered it

Sometimes I'm glad I am a poorfag. I was new to guns when this was shilled so I wasn't too despairing about it.

>>642960

>2 round magazines for hunters

>10 round magazines for sport shooters

>30 round magazines for weapons collectors (?)

I hope german hunters can at least do 2+1…

>>642964

Better yet, when will we into nigger discipline?

>>642952

>>11lbs because they made the reviver an inch thick for no reason

Because the original StG was made to just barely work, not to last through a YouTube e-celeb magdumping shitty sponsor-fed ammo at a refrigerator for an entire week to make a 30 minute video.

>>doesn't even externally look like a StG because of how they changed all the stamping and strengthening ribs for no reason

Because you would have to go out of your way to add artificial strengthening ribs to a receiver that won't dent if you poke it.

>>shitty G3 trigger because "it's easy"

I'll give you that one.

>>shitty plastic mags

STANAG > $80 proprietary steel magazines

>>StG44/MKb 42(H) hybrid mutant

I see nothing wrong, chief.

>>doesn't work

Getting magazines to feed correctly is the hardest part of designing a gun apart from gas settings, anon.

>>doesn't exist

fair enough

>>642946

>What did I do to deserve this?

You pre-ordered, anon.

>>642946

>that gay small mag

STG MAGS WERE SO LARGE THAT YOU COULD BARELY SHOOT THIS THING FROM PRONE

>>642946

>What did I do to deserve this?

You purchased a promise instead of a product.

Why does it look like a chinese bootleg made by illiterate peasants who only had a blurry picture of the real thing?

THEY SHOULD BE OUT END OF THIS MONTH

>>643009

Their facebook announcement states they will have pre-orders sent out by the end of the 1st Quarter, they outsourced some of their milling and machining to other companies, and so they were able to increase their production after they fixed the gas problems and magazine problems with the gun

There's always the chance it's bullshit, but hopefully they are serious this time

>>642955

Where do they get ammo from?

>>643010

>they outsourced some of their milling and machining to other companies

What a clusterfuck.

>>643031

They dug everything up out of the ground. Once they run out, they ditch the gun.

Apparently they have enough ammunition to do half-ass AK conversions into "44 bore" which fires 7.92 kurz with some weird fireforming.

>>643031

Soviet Union, khyber pass and reloads. Pakistan (iirc) outlawed 7.62x39 for some reason so they rebored them to 7.92 because it worked well enough.

http://armamentresearch.com/44-bore-7-62-x-39-mm-ak-rifles-modified-to-fire-7-92-x-33-kurz-ammunition/

Further reading .

>>643035

For the Jihadists in Syria: The Syrian government had stockpiles of the guns and ammo from the post-WW2 French colonial days.

As to the quality of all that, well, we dont really see them in use anymore on the Syrian battlefields, so either the guns broke or the ammo ran out

>>642969

>30 round magazines for weapons collectors (?)

30 round magazines for everybody, even people who don't own guns because the way german gun law works its not a part of a gun.

additionally the other two limits are only for those activities, meaning for hunting you can only have two rounds in the gun and for sport you are only allowed 10 round mags.

there are hunters in germany who use 30 round mags to kill dogs and cats that poach in their hunting ground and its legal, because killing stray pets that attack wild animals in your hunting ground is not hunting after german gun law

>What did I do to deserve this?

Everyone told you it was bullshit but you kept calling them russian shills.

>>642955

You realize Zastava sells them, right? lol Serbs can buy it in .22lr and you have to essentially suffer the fate of STAR CITIZEN preorders.

>>643055

You can buy almost any built for 22lr. It doesn't mean it's anything close though. It's usually just a shell, might as well get an airsoft at that point.

> DSA or Imbel make a FAL chambered in 8mm Kurz

> PTR or POF make an HK variant chambered in 8mm Kurz

> everyone buys the new FAL and just says "fuck it, its the spiritual successor to the StG44 anyhow" and is satisified

> everyone buys the new delayed roller HK style in Kurz and says "fuck it, its the direct descendant of the StG45 anyhow" and is satisfied

I know this is a bit of a troll stretch, and those new guns would not be WW2 replicas, but bear with me on this thought process. My proposed weapons would be absolutely workable killing machines with no clumsy re-engineering or backward engineering, We have betrayed historical purpose and sold the very reason down the river, but we end up with cool intermediate cartridge guns that work and are at least a sad "its in the spirit, it would have been the natural evolution of both weapons' excuse.

And now that I'm almost steering off subject, but the original FAL was chambered in 8mm Kurz during protypes, correct? Although remaking old Nazi arms is a great project with historical significance, its just too damn bad nobody will make a FAL in 280 British or an original bullpup made for it either.

>>643071

I don't think anyone could afford the PTR in 8mm Kurz going by how much they want for their MP5 clones

>>643072

I noticed that too, quite disappointed. I really want an MP5 without a tax stamp, none are worth the money. I'm hoping that one day, one day, they finally hit affordable and I'll snatch one up, but for now its just plain crazy. At least the PTR32 exists, and is at $1k, which is reasonable all in all. I've come so close to buying that one too, in many ways it is the truest successor to the StG45 currently available, intermediate cartridge in delayed roller. An 8mm would be truer, and pretty damn cool, but yes, probably overpriced and limited. Then buying the ammunition, or even getting brass for reloading with limited data.

>>643010

>they outsourced some of their milling and machining to other companies

Gee, it's almost like going from making steel targets to receiver flats to full-on rifles is a bit of a leap for a company with no prior experience otherwise.

On one hand, I feel kind of sorry for them. It's obvious they had no idea what they were getting into when they started this project and we've all been there. On the other hand, don't they have even one experienced production engineer or tool and die guy on staff?

>>643106

steel stamping technology is not a joke and if you don't have a whole country or industry to mobilize to pay to set up factories from that shit you will not have access to it. HMG is just a small company that's probably going to go bankrupt soon.

>>643106

That implies they could easily get matching and in-tolerance samples of the guns and be able to properly measure all their specs in order to be able to reverse engineer them without creating time bombs, or alternatively, have access to spare tooling which they could make the reproductions on. Both of those things imply more connections or money than HMG, or practically any small-name company, would have available to them, not to mention that even if they did it would not be cost-effective whatsoever to do it that way. That shit is so rare and so highly valued that you're talking about hundreds of thousands in investments just to be able to make their first unit in production. That is not something a business can finance, and it would drive the unit cost so high on the first batches that nobody would be willing to buy them. Multiple companies have attempted exactly this route with rare historical guns, and driven themselves into bankruptcy as a result.

You're also forgetting the fact that Germany demolished all of the tooling and most of the guns, and shipped the rest to arm terrorists in the Middle East. How the fuck do you think those rifles wound up there?

>>643109

Thousands of guys with a (failing) socialised economy supporting them, versus maybe a few dozen guys tops in a private business? Yeah, that is to be expected. Walther, Mauser, and Haenel were big swingers, HMG isn't. Big surprise.

>>643112

The development didn't receive government sanction until 44 when Hitler finally reviewed the rifles, didn't they?

>>643114

He flip flopped back and forth on it like four or five times. In 1941 and 1942 he wanted rifles for trial, then he said in late '42 the Wehrmacht needed submachine guns instead and shut the MKb 42 down. The manufacturers basically subverted his will, changed the project name to MP 43, and kept making the same thing. He asked to review that later on, somehow didn't remember he had already seen it before, and loved it. Fast forward to 1944 and he realised the "MP 44" was a rifle, not an SMG, so he changed his mind and rushed them to finishing and adopting it. The StG title was basically made up as a meme to make it sound tacticool, although MKb frankly already described what it was - an automatic carbine. Had to throw in the "Sturm" for intimidation or whatever, you know?

Keep in mind that Adolf was known to make decisions this way in most of his endeavours, guns, military strategy, some political moves, didn't matter much what it was. He was not a very happy or stable man. With Germany running low on resources and manpower post-1942, things like building more guns completely out of very complicated stamped steel are a huge issue, so you can see why he was initially paranoid about the rifle. Hence the VG prototypes and the absolutely garbage-tier Volkssturm (granny and shota national militia) weapons.

The Einstossflammenwerfer is cute, though.

>>643118

I should have clarified, the MKb program was not specifically funded, but the companies had existing production contracts with the German government and were paid for developing new weapons in general. This was very important to them because they were almost entirely cut off from the civilian market during WWII - large companies were paid well because they were essentially nationalised for the war effort, while smaller ones who were determined to have too little factory capability for mass production were still allowed to produce civilian arms. Germany did similar things when they went and occupied other countries such as Czechia, in a way semi-officially making the major manufacturers part of the government as a way of securing logistics in a time when they weren't doing well. They did the same thing with vehicles and I believe some construction materials production, too. Oil and steel and good manufacturing were more of a bitch in 40s Germany than most people know or mention. There's a reason late-war Kar 98ks kind of suck.

>>643110

>>643108

All I'm hearing is EXCUSES for failure caused by the upmost INCOMPETENCE, and poor, rushed, and overambitious planning. I laugh at the fools who PREORDERED (lol) anything from a company that only made flat pieces of plinking steel. You're exactly like the fools who preorder things from Betheshita

>>643031

Yugoslav surplus most of the time.

>>643058

The gsg ones are built off of a 9mm blank firing gun.

>>643110

Do you want to tell us that Sport-Systeme Dittrich is one of the greatest industrial conglomerates of this planet with near-infinite resources that they invest only into historic firearms? Because apart from an Stg that really is an Stg they have quite a few other firearms from that era: http://www.ssd-weapon.com/waffen-historisch.html Or maybe, just maybe, those burgers are simply incompetent. If you want to make a stamped gun but don't know the first thing about stamping, then you get a company with decades of experience to design the process and set up the machinery for you. You don't fuck up the whole thing to make something halfway between a bad joke and an unholy abomination.

>and shipped the rest to arm terrorists in the Middle East. How the fuck do you think those rifles wound up there?

Now you are just trolling. https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/09/27/stg-44-in-africa-after-wwii/

>>643007

Fuck off Karl

>>643010

They've been "shipping soon" for 2 years now, it's bullshit.

>>643071

The PTR-32 is basically a modern Gerät 06H

>>643274

>fg42s from the same company

What the fuck.

>>643106

>a gun that's already been developed and mass produced before

Blueprints don't exist, and most of the shit's in German if you can find it. Reverse engineering something made by autistic krauts is like stapling your balls to a tiger on cocaine.

>>643279

WAHH I HAVE TO TRANSLATE GERMAN? WTF THIS IS ENGINEERING NOT A LANGUAGE CLASS. wait what do you mean I have to REVERSE ENGINEER? OMG I CAN'T COPY A BUNCH OF METAL PARTS

haha

>>643272

>and some guys did make some STGs but covered them with red dots and rails which got them backlash?

That's the same company, they just haven't even released them yet.

>>643287

No, it's much more than that. You see, you have to FIGURE OUT THE TOLERANCES! And that's completely impossible, especially in the case of the Stg, a rifle literally designed to barely survive the poor Soldat who was told to use it. And you have to consider that you don't even need your rifles to be compatible with original Stgs, only with the newly build ones that you are planning to make. And if this nightmare is not enough, we live in the age of CNC machines, so you can come up with arbitrary tolerances and easily mass produce parts that adhere to them. And that includes the stamped parts, because the modern alternative of stamping is to cut out the form with a laser and then blend it into shape. I just shudder if I think about it.

Do note how he didn't write anything about the historically accurate reproduction made by SSD.

>>643177

I will say this when it comes to die cutting and stamping, it is not cheap by any means to set up let alone maintain, Dittrich's shop if I recall isn't a big place and given how small the accessible market for their products is probably why they're in business still and an insurace settlement due to the place being torched iirc.

>>643279

>contradicting yourself in just two sentences

>being butthurt that you are a monolinguist subhuman

>being butthurt that krauts are better engineers than amerimutts are

This is why despite their gigantic civilian market, innovative guns still debut mostly not in muttmerica.

>>643294

Re-inventing the wheel is not innovation.

>>643295

You can shove all those Browning handguns and ar back into your ass, cleetus. You and vatniki are the reason the world is still stuck with shitty designs.

>>643297

>>643295

For example.

Is this just another gas operated pistol? Yes. But the mutts somehow 5 decades after the DE got released still haven't made a sensible low recoil handgun in a non retarded caliber.

>>643297

>Design great guns that everyone likes

<GRRR WHY DOES EVERYONE LIKE THESE SHIT DESIGNS, MAKE SOMETHING ELSE

>>643299

This is why you literally have no innovation anymore.

>>643293

Then the gun will be more expensive to cover the costs. It's still better than this something that doesn't even share its shape with the Stg. Or they could outscore the stamped parts to an other company until they collect enough shekels to do it in-house.

>>643300

There have been a few innovative technologies, designs and engineering decisions, but they did often come from smaller companies and groups from many places, while big industry is the ones that are least concerned with innovation today, making their famed but dated designs at best and basic oversimplified cheapskate shit at worst.

The problem is worldwide with gun culture and, for US specifically, appreciation of craftsmanship. Even despite not that strict gun control(compared to other countries at least), gun culture that's left after shitflinging and populism has become a lot more populist itself, with authorities, big names and politics taking place that a proper appreciation of craftsmanship could have.

>>643303

>We shall see what comes out of LSAT

A solution looking for a problem more than actual improvement of the issue that could have easily never happened at all and had numerous ways and options to be fixed.

>>643306

Whats the point of LSAT again? just to reduce weight?

>>643292

I almost forgot about MUH TOLERANCES

>>643309

To do what proper intermediate cartridges could do almost a hundred years ago, except it has to be "innovative" and so will make all the recent buzzwords they could recall come true.

>>643311

Isn't that country Switzerland?

>>643740

>butthurt mutt

>>643740

Hi Karl

>>642960

You fail to mention its retail is 3.2k EUR.

>>643300

I've never understood how those telescoped ammo guns are supposed to eject the last casing without another case to push it out. Are you just supposed to dissasemble it and try to push it out the chamber? That just seems like a flaw that's already been adressed with contemporary designs.

>>643900

Why would you though? It doesn't get in the way and when you reload it will be pushed out by your next round. What's the point of pushing the case out if it won't ever get stuck because it's plastic and not brass?

Why didn't these dumb niggers just develop a few prototypes that worked first? They took a fuck ton of "pre orders", and then began developing prototypes and shit like a bunch of fucking niggers. Disgusting.

>>643953

it's called crowdfunding goy

>>644005

People routinely post the original 3D mockups to point out how weird it looks, yeah.

>>644005

I wouldn't mind buying a full-auto version of this for $500, chambered in 6.5 grendel

>>644005

>the fucking retarded strengthening ribs on the trigger group that look nothing like the original.

>finish on all the various parts don't match at all

>can easily see how it's just a MkB mutt hybrid and not a StG replica

>>643901

Because sometimes you need to clear your weapon?

>>644062

The finish often didn't match on the originals. Your other points are valid.

>>644122

>>644107

Except the mismatched originals is because all the parts were made by different companies and mishmashed together, there's no reason for it on the HMG.

>>644183

HMG is outsourcing some components, coincidentally enough.

>>644183

>there's no reason for it

Just like there's no reason for strengthening ribs, right?

>>642946

>>644005

Am I autistic or does the barrel on this look just a tad too short?

>>644195

It's shorter by about 3/8s of an inch.

>>644195

Also there's a shoulder in the middle of the exposed barrel where the OD was milled down from the standard K98 barrel to accommodate the front sight block. I don't think the HMG ones have that feature. Might be throwing off your eye.

>>644201

compare ribs from >>644005 to >>644122 even disregarding the rivets

>>644197

>>644196

The ssd doesn't have that either, or at least mills it down much shorter. >>642960

>>644203

Yeah I understand what he's saying, but not including them at all would actually be less faithful to the original design. There is one feature that they're putting on the HMG one that I don't like, and it's the radius cut onto the left grip plate. The radius accommodated the fire and safe position on the original firearm, which is now moved to a more central location in the housing of the new one. They should mirror the right grip plate and remove that radius as it serves no purpose.

>>644204

I see that, interesting considering the SSD's model is basically a 1:1 copy with some fuckery in the trigger pack to make automatic fire impossible. The original shoulder(s) was simply a production engineering design, which isn't an issue to consider for SSD unless they were buying repro k98 blanks for their MP44s

>>644192

>>644201

I'm not complaining about the ribs existing you aspies, I'm complaining that the ribs don't look anything like the originals.

>>644196

>It's shorter by about 3/8s of an inch.

Why?

>>644213

The ribs are longer because you don't need to break them for drilled holes to accommodate rivets, and leaving the steel flat there with no holes drilled or ribs would make that area flimsy. Also I guess the cost of making a more complicated stamping die with no benefit factored in here as well.

>Why?

I honestly don't know.

>>644214

Aren't the ribs glued on? Or was that something they were offering separately as a kit to make your HMG Frakengewehr more authentic?

>>644215

I don't own one, and I have not even considered purchasing one. I'm just a fan of the StG and have kept up with this project with amusement and interest.

There are some real issues with the HMG gun both conceptually, and practically. The ribs while somewhat striking to me aren't a breaking point.

>>644216

>I don't own one

No-one does

>>644223

hehe, buyer beware.

t. (((lolberg pro)))

>>644246

Metal ribs are preferable, but you'd need some feature there or else it would look worse. At least they didn't add a bunch of rivets and really make the firearm nonsensical.

>>644340

The chinks have surpassed the amerimutts long ago. This is why the butthurt meme bugmen was created. Like the whole "Freedom Fries" fiasco.

>>644340

Confirmed

CHINA > AMERICA

CHINA SHOULD BE NEW WORLD SUPERPOWER INSTEAD OF MUTTS

WESTERN WORLD SHOULD BE MORE LIKE CHINA

>>644363

>Chink media has a party-enforced ban on "thug culture" (read: niggers)

<hollywood promotes bestiality openly

>Chinese outsmart jews in copyright and patent laws, where everything assembled by chinese workers is classified as chinese invention

<yidsney buys everything it can to have monopoly over "culture"

>China rebuilds apartheid, genocides niggers by feeding them plastic pellets that look like rice

<muttmerica sends niggers as occupational forces and

forcefeeds nigs in africa so they can go to Europe to negrify it

>>644379

>>644371

>Butthurt mutt

This comparision was just pointing out how shitty mutts are, even the chinks are better.

Where can I buy a superior Chinese StG 44?

>>644405

Hongcouver

>>644441

iirc those are a one run deal.

>>644441

>2014

I just went to their website and I guess they're still not delivered yet. A few comments from April 11, 2018:

>Any updates on this bad boy?

>Yes there is. We have made a new welding fixture and machining fixture for the receiver. Most of the rifles have been had fitted for the fire control groups, machining fixture. The big hold up has been the work going on in the wood shop so I can get the cnc router up and running.

How the hell does something like this take so long? Is it just one guy making it?

>>644491

>>644501

Those faggots could've cranked out all the stocks they needed with a cheap scroll saw and a draw knife by now even if they needed to cut down the trees and let the wood air dry.

This further illustrates that you should never pay fully until the final product has been delivered.

>>644512

They're probably stalling because they still have over gassed rifles.

>>644491

Gunlab is just one guy.

>>644559

Is this the same guy making the Gerat rifles?

>>644560

Yeah, another really limited run of stuff.

>>644553

>over gassed rifles

Considering the system used doesn't actually work and is based off of theory, now instead based off hoping the theories work because old examples still exist, it's still an oversized blowback pistol.

>>644256

I don't see why you're so opposed to fake rivets, airshit guns do it all the time.

>>644582

I guess the AK is an oversized blowback pistol too?

>>644596

Preferential choice, because you could make the argument that the ribs serve a structural purpose, and the rivets would only serve a cosmetic one, and I doubt it would be executed any better than the rib placement.

>>644608

Just buy a PTR-32 tbh

>>644456

>shoot a gun in america to defend yourself

>Police confiscates it and arrests you for hatecrime of shooting a nigger

LAND OF THE FREE

>>644612

That firearm is too cool for Canada.

>>644608

As its been said he is pretty much a one man set up. Stamping ain't cheap.

>>644621

Yeah true, but he's doing it right, and if he sells his VGs and Gerats and other projects he would make a healthy profit, allowing him to expand organically. The main issue with Gun Labs is the owner is fairly old.

>>644456

>under commies and amerimutts the ethnic native will lose guns eventually

Better try to keep my genetics then.

>>644605

False equivalency, Canadanon.

It's more like the Thompson using the Blish lock in that the bolt is heavy enough(or 7.92 Kurz is weak enough) for it to work without having a gimmick action that, in this case, blows gas at you through the " " "seal" " " machined onto the barrel.

>>644629

The theory that the gas system on the StG has been tested, I suppose? I'd like to see the evidence, not that I don't believe you, but I am genuinely curious to see the results.

If only the Germans knew, they could have saved time and materials in just producing blowback StG rifles.

>>644653

What is it?

>>644654

This was a rifle that was designed in East Germany. It ran competition against the Vz. 58 in Czechoslovakia and against the AKM. It potentially would have won out against the Vz. but Soviet influence and the AKM killed it. It was designed to bring in export dough to the very early DDR. It doesn't really have a name though was actually used as a trials gun. The Czechs called it the "NDR" but that is likely more of a reference to the East Germans themselves. The best approximation would be "StG 58" or 59.

>>644633

Are you retarded? Follow the discussion, it's not about the Sturmgewehr, it's about GunLab's Volkssturmgewehr.

>>644657

My bad.

>>644591

>Someday we will realize that science is a social construct

Unbased and bluepilled!

Was going to post the prints but maximum file size is exceeded, need 21MB max upload

>>644746

Do you have a link to them?

>>644863

I get why the HMG guys went with a STANAG type magazine, mainly so they could make conversion between calibres easier. I think it's a bit of a cop out, but the StG magazines are quite complex. I think they have 11 parts. But what are the options? I think M43 ammo stacks significantly differently than the 7.92x33, and you'd end up with a profile similar to what I posted here: >>644653. The StG 45 would be stunning in 7.62x39 though, cheap to run and take care of basically.

>>644868

Magwell dimensions would not matter so much between calibers if the magwell was made as a separate component, welded on.

With modern computer-controlled arc welding, the weld would be near-invisible, and even "reenactment" LARPers wouldn't be able to complain if it brought the price down to a reasonable level.

The StG44/45 magazine could be made from fewer pieces also, if one could tolerate a polymer follower. That would bring the number down to anywhere from 5 to 7, a much more reasonable amount.

>>644869

>if the magwell was made as a separate component, welded on.

But then you'd lose 'muh modularity' (read as: they want to sell caliber conversion kits)

>>644883

But you'd sell more rifles. I'd buy one in 8x33 and one in 7.62x39 at least, if I could. Especially if the 7.62x39 one used AK mags.

>>644863

Dunno, so far H&K has been trying to force 4mm cartridges, such as the 4.7mm G11 round and the 4.6mm MP7 round, I reckon they'd do something similar in the 70's/80's/90's if they didn't have to waste money on unifying with the eastie beasties.

>>644937

Why the MP44? I thought the Waffenamt just outright rejected it. Surely something like the MP3008 would be more cost effective.

I dare say if Germany won WW2 or at least have a truce with the USSR, their weapon development would still mirror West Germany except with better stuff.

>>644937

>MP44

>implying nations continue to use SMGs after assault rifles replace them

>>644941

>Why the MP44? I thought the Waffenamt just outright rejected it.

They rejected it at first in 1943, but in late 1944 they were interested in it. However they would have to cut back on the production of MP40s, so they didn't do it.

>Surely something like the MP3008 would be more cost effective.

The MP3008 is a copy of the British Sten gun, it was first produced in 1941.

For Germany to win WW2 they somehow have to pacify Britain, either by force or through negotiation before the invasion of the Soviet Union by June 22, 1941.

With Vitchy France on Germany's side, Britain pacified and the USA never entering the War in Europe, its would just be the Axis Alliance vs. the Soviet Union. The Allies would have never really existed.

However this means that Germany can never capture British Sten guns from the Soviets to make copies of it.

>>644971

>implying nations continue to use SMGs after assault rifles replace them

They do to this day, because the assault rifle never replaced them in the role they have.

>>645033

I see no reason why they wouldn't develop on the delayed blowback design of Stg45 and then make something like the G3/G41 or MP5, if Germany wins.

Both are stamped sheet metal designs.

>>645065

I love Bundeswehr stuff, but me think if Germany won WW2, they would get even better stuff (like G3 in intermediate cartridge in day one).

>>644945

Same tbh.

It is a bad boat to be in isn't it.

>>645070

I would hope so. I really doubt you'd ever see the modern Wehrmacht training with fucking brooms instead of MG42s

>>645097

A modern Bundeswehr with proper distributed equipment, a more sizeable tank/mechanical force and a modern fleet of destroyers would be BOSS.

>>645103

>proper distributed equipment

like underbarrel shotguns?

>>645105

Like motherfucking properly heat-treated G36 for everyone.

>>645146

Sad that this once mighty anti-jew and communist machine now fights on its behest.

>>645146

The last one is a 9mm PAK gun.

>>645181

What? The tripod is still supporting the gun, unless you think he's resting it on a pile of folding chairs and cloth.

>>644937

>More simplified and easier to produce Sturmgewehr 45(see East German NDR rifle), later a similar development to the CETME/G3.

The NDR used the same action as the 44. The 45 used the delayed roller action. I think the Reich proper would have pushed the roller action given that it would have been even more economic than the NDR, which was a simplification of the 44.

>>644937

Frisbee grenades are highly neat, as is this funky Nipolit hard-cast plastic explosive. I'm curious as to why they never received any attention postwar; a discus seems like the final evolution of the 'assisted throwing distance' ethic of the stick grenade, while casting or milling the main explosive body and then just sticking in a fuse, painting on some probably fire/spark resistant lacquer as a just in case, and optionally putting a fragmentation sleeve on sounds like the most dirt cheap mass production method imaginable, with no real loss of effectiveness in spite of the crudity. The fact that it's very production efficient in nitric acid use and turns old WWI-grade expired powder into machinable TNT only makes it more attractive.

Looking up the material, the idea comes up of using the stuff for caseless munitions, while I myself wonder if a slower burning Nipolit-B compound is possible and how it might've fared as a propellant in conventional ammunition. In theory, reusing old gunpowder in the same fashion, but rather than becoming an extremely fast-burn high explosive, it's restored as a single stick or honeycombed propellant 'slug' that takes the place of powder or guncotton in a similar fashion to a cordite bundle. Near perfect physical uniformity across production, close uniformity of explosive content and thus velocity. Has to be purpose-made on each line to fit one ammunition caliber, since the stuff is exceptionally stable and might need a different primer fusing arrangement and a stable seating, but depending on what you're using it for and on what scale this isn't a problem. No good for artillery which needs variable charges and easily reused casings; good for steel-lacquered rifle ammo that's going to be largely left to rust wherever it ejects, or Minengeschoss autocannon shells for spraying down bombers that'll be lost raining down who knows where.

That aside, I'm not sure that the Germans would go for the STG-45 alone even in the immediate postwar and under the somewhat limited, no-USA entry victory scenario you describe. I think you'll get a gaggle of testing or limited production runs to figure out what works and what doesn't, because there are other promising avenues of development. The gas delayed Grossfuss-Horn rifle sticks out in particular, because it was cheap as dirt and performed monstrously well during torture tests by the Soviets even though it was an unrefined, unfinished mess ergonomically. Korobov's lever-delayed TKB-517 or a derivative could also become a contender if he gets reverse-Paperclipped out of the East, because it is the cheapest motherfucker with similar virtues as roller-delayed blowback (fixed barrel with no extra fouling routes, low recoilling mass) with less fiddly machining on the bolt and no fluting the chamber. And there's always the chance the FG-42 might mutate into a full bullpup somewhat resembling the EM-2 rifle in general profile and filling a similar all-in-one weapon ethic as the Steyr AUG, but in stamped steel instead of plastic. There's also the frustrating 'all of the above' possibility if different services stubbornly decide on individual, unilateral adoption instead of agreeing on one or two rifles. Mercifully, there will at least be only one basic magazine/well pattern per caliber.

>>645449

Also, while the Leaf is correct in stating that the NDR developed separate to the roller-delayed StG-45 program, and may not be strictly the cheapest option, I see the eminent possibility of a rifle like the NDR emerging to largely phase out what will now be the 'early' production MP-43/STG-44 design. Although the trigger group is still an overcomplex crosspin farm, that's quite changeable to a Gerat 06/STG-45 type, and the sort of squared G3 stamped body looks very cost competitive. The unmodified trigger group and same action of the OTL postwar NDR rifle tells me there ought to be reasonable tooling crossover between the patterns, meaning old lines don't have to be completely shut down and replaced but can instead be phased out as new pattern tooling comes in. Will probably result in a decent number of frankenguns with old and new pattern forerifle/trigger group mixes and different rear & fore sights before arriving at the final pattern. I don't imagine these changes could take the cost down from 70 to 40 Reichsmarks like the '45, since the gas system is retained, but the savings could be reasonable enough to justify a changeover. 50? 55?

>For Germany to win, the USA cannot have entered WW2.

Highly debatable. Go back far enough, and foundations in procurement and politics can be laid for the Axis to clean the continent, fight the US to a standstill and stabilize their position, forcing either a peace or a long war across two oceans and impregnable maneating beachheads that FDR or Truman politically cannot continue to prosecute let alone win.

>However the CIA would not exist.

The Office of Strategic Services or equivalent will still have been created under most circumstances, even if there's somehow no US entry, simply to consolidate all the spook groups across different political cliques and government departments. It'll still get dissolved and spread into the State Departments' Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Central Intelligence Group, which will then become the CIA, or alternatively the OSS will never be broken up into separate agencies and will form an even more obvious shadow governmental spook group running a jingoist-antifascist faux-democracy riddled with even more open & closet communists, the dirty trot type that'd become neoliberals and neoconservatives plus some good ol' Stalinist hardliners and NKVD 'experts,' 'evacuated' from the failing Soviet state, all this based either in the US or in a North American Federation formed from an executive emergency order merger with the Commonwealth exile governments.

>>645450

Interesting take. I'll conjecture that whatever fire control group the NDR rifle used, it was simpler than the StG 44's. This is just based on looks alone. The lack of a FA/semi cross pin thing is a dead giveaway.

>>645481

It still seems to have post of the same crosspins/sockets at a glance, though. Those exterior, raised lines in the stamping are still there too. I will not pretend to understand the exploded STG-44 trigger group beyond 'it's fucked,' nor to know that the NDR isn't really simpler on the inside although they look externally more or less the same, likely to use the same stamping tooling. I honestly have to wonder if that entire trigger group arrangement, and similar dalliances, were the result of what were essentially toolshop guns being rush-finalized for production in lieu of taking the additional time to unravel the anti-solutions the engineers had made in order to simplify them, or at least dismantle enemy weapons and adopting their solutions; they certainly did the first step now and again, and at least a few times the second, see the G43 taking cues from the SVT. Alternatively, it is entirely possible it was deliberate reactionary Waffenamt sabotage, or else Ernst Kniepkamp-esque autism. Or both overlapping.

But, again, doubling back on myself. This hypothetical early NDR/alt-MP-43, already more vastly more divergent from the MKb42, would be entirely capable of having a simpler trigger group than either the original NDR or MP-43/STG-44 in the process of design simplification. Having mostly closed the gap in cost with the still cheaper STG45(M), it's entirely possible the short stroke gas piston design would be retained for a substantial amount of time, rather than the STG45 getting fast tracked to replace the STG44 due to being 42% cheaper per unit and substantially simpler.

>>642960

>>642946

>>642955

Is there a 556 or 545 version of the STG 44?

>>645711

The HMG (assuming it isn't vaporware) will be available in 5.56.

>>645756

Why you gotta be like this?

>>645756

hey kike, give me your boipussy

>>645850

absolutely Greek

>>645852

the younger he is the better