/k/ - Weapons

>>586574

England deserves it for waging a war of aggression against Germany.

>>586579

>britain and France say if *Germany* (not the ussr) declares war on Poland that they will declare war on Germany

>germany false flags on the border and invades Poland

>oh well guess it's time for war with Germany

>french troops attack into mosselland once and decide its best to stay in France

>germany invades denmark, nederland, luxemburg, and Belgium (another couple of guaranteed countries, not to mention Belgium a neutrality)

>somehow Britain is aggressor

>>587043

>but muh Dresden and shieet

>>587047

A book is no way to counter a post.

>>587043

>Britain and France force the creation of Poland to deprive Germany of a major Industrial Area, a major source of Coal and to cut their Granary in half, thus forcing Germany to be dependent on international trade to feed its population, which at the time is controlled by the British Navy.

>then they declare their support for this Poland and claim they would defend it should Germany try to take back what is theirs

>they continue to fuck with Germany by occupying the Rhineland despite the establishment of peace

>somehow its a big surprise when this backfires, the German people start to reject this "peace" and a man like Hitler comes into power

>Germany takes back what it rightfully owns, Anti German Polish leader gets cold feet and starts harassing non polish people

>Germany and Russia are no longer tolerating this and destroy the artificially created Poland

>Britain and France declare war only on Germany, its totally cool if the communist slaughter poles and take their land

>Germany sues for peace repeatedly and is rejected

>France invades Germany and fails

>Germany fights back, conquers France and kicks the British Army off the continent

>Germany again sues for peace with Britain and is again rejected repeatedly

>This forces Germany the conquer the entire Atlantic and North Sea coast to deny the British Army a landing point on the continent

>Somehow Britain is innocent, they dindu nuffin and they only fought evil tyrant Hitler to free da joos from da holocaust

>>587052

Being too lazy to read a book is not an excuse. Still, long story short: it's quite likely that the UK deliberately engineered the emergence of the NSDAP, because they really did want them to start a war Germany can't win.

>>587054

>Britain and France force the creation of Poland

Dude. Poland had been a thing since Duke Mieszko I set it up in 992AD. I know that the only way to contain your particular form of spastication is to blame 'mer ederner erngler' for everything, but at least do some basic fact checking before you ragepost.

>>587055

>britain plans on invading every one of those countries that you listed

At that point Britain kept plans to invade pretty much every country bigger than Micronesia as a 'just in case' file to pull out if they were ever needed. It's about as relevant as the identical plans you were drawing up to stage an unprovoked invasion of Canada at about the same time.

>>587059

>unprovoked

Canada is rightful US clay and you know it, and we should have.

>>587063

>we should have

You already tried, and lost

>>587057

>because they really did want them to start a war Germany can't win

I wouldn't doubt that the UK "created" the NSDAP in that they were aware of what the Treaty of Versailles would cause (you'd need to be pretty damn retarded not to think that shit would backfire), but why assume the war was unwinnable for Germany? Their position wasn't ideal but it was far from untenable, were it not for a schizophrenic strategy and superheavy tank autism they could have fared a lot better.

>>587063

And the fact that it isn't is entirely the fault of us burgers. If War of 1812 didn't happen the Canucks wouldn't even have a pretend reason to be proud of their country, and would have meekly asked to join the Union all on their own sooner or later.

>>587054

>Use "might makes right" as an argument to partition Polish territory

>Act asshurt when eventually losing a war

Don't play the games if you can't support the claims.

Protip, don't speak german, it's language for filthy subhumans, at least that's what your greatest leader, Frederick the great thought and preferred to jerk off to French.

>could be buried with hot women, gold and go out like a pharaoh

>was buried with his dogs only

Embarassing, and furfaggy

>>587055

>Fake country like pooland

Is this your mind when jews control your perception of reality?

Obsession with scat and delusions

>Inb4 muh holocaust laws

Irrelevant country like Iceland tried outlawing circumcision male genital mutilation and it caused huge uproar

If we did as little as resuming Exhumation in Jedwabne (muh 5 gorillon jews burned alive in a barn, good germans troops couldn't save the innocent from polish nazi jeweating monsters) priceless israel would use the nukes it doesn't have.

Openly debunking israel's raison d'etre would be suicidal, unless we get an ability to retaliate in case of a nuclear attack.

Even then, it'd have to be an AI doing the launch, people are too brainwashed to not hesitate against the poor jews.

>>587059

Literally every single country in the world has a dedicated file cabinet filled with plans titled

>How we should go around wage war with each and every neighbor (or any country in existence) should the need arise

After 123 years of occupation and failed germanization (proof of its failure is the existence of Polish culture, language, and people) they're really asshurt Poland existence, and everything that points to its continued existence, EU is German recreation of mitteleuropa plan from 1915

Everyone knows Poland started existing only in 1939 just so it could be reclaimed by germans (^:

Modern history started in 1942 with holocaust being ultimate "achievement" of huwhite civilization, before that there was only darkness, kings and fighting. (all of those are bad), professor noseberg taught me that in the university so you know it's true.

>>587063

but do you even want a shithole country like Canada at this point beyond it being a matter of principle?

Would you execute canadians on live television like in intro to fallout?

>>587055

>poland

>fake country

Reminder that Germany has only existed as a single nation since 1990

>>587066

>but why assume the war was unwinnable for Germany?

Because they wanted Germany to bleed out against an USSR that was supported by them and their American brethern. They took a bet, and won it. Mind you, by "they" I mean the small elite who doesn't care if the common man dies on a faraway battlefield, or if he is a half-paki half-nigger with an IQ of 70. Now, you could argue how great the risk really was, and I'm rather sure that getting France knocked out wasn't part of their plan. But the Nazis were very sympathetic towards Britain, and so they were sure that they can make them dance to their tune. Worst come to worst, they could have presented a few of their members as English national socialists and stay in power.

>>587069

>Poland had been dead as a nation and identity for a hundred years

I don't expect a burger to be able to read, or know names like Mickiewicz, Wyspiański, Głowacki, Norwid or Krasiński, but try to not embarrass yourself.

>>587073

>Polack comes out of the blue to defend his shithole with 'b-b-but look at this one guy and a couple generic screenwriters who were born after WW2!'

Jej.

>>587069

>>587054

>Poland had been dead as a nation and identity for a hundred years.

>>Britain and France force the creation of Poland

Oh yea, they can revive a dead language in a few decades.

Jesus Christ are you people retarded.

This "muh germany dindu nuffin" speech is worse than niggers in Chicago.

Especially after WWI with the bombing of Scarborough to try to "scare the british by attacking an innocent fishing town" while Dresden was an industrial area for the war effort.

>>587057

UK supported anti-communist movements all over europe during the interwar period. They even paid Il Duce a weekly wage.

But saying because UK supported governments in Europe to stop the USSR from spreading while having war plans like every other country has against every other country on the planet for just in case is retarded.

That's like saying because there's more Irish in the US that the Irish are from America and not Ireland.

>>586571

why is the vietnam war the most kino war ever?

>>587079

>Poland

>shithole

At this rate Poland is going to be one of the few European countries to exist in fifty years.

>>587079

>Born after WWII

>WWII was in XIX century

I asked you kindly not to embarass yourself, but you just couldn't help yourself, could you?

Youngest of them died in 1908.

>>587080

Catalonia used to own a much larger portion of the iberian peninsula. Some people who live in Spain undoubtedly know Catalan. Does that give Catalonia the right to their former territory?

>>587084

if they can fight for their own representation who is to say that they don't deserve self actualization?

i.e. who gives a fuck, if they want to be their own thing and can actually do it why should anyone give a shit?

The culture was still alive and the language wasn't dead, Germany lost the war and therefore had to give it back.

That's just how shit is.

You of all people should know this with your reservation for fans for firewater.

>>587072

But that doesn't answer my question. Why were these elites so certain Germany would lose? Again, if Hitler's strategy was just a bit less schizophrenic, logistics a bit better, and the focus on superheavy tanks a bit less autistic, the war could have well gone another way.

>But the Nazis were very sympathetic towards Britain, and so they were sure that they can make them dance to their tune.

Not sympathetic enough, as the Battle of Britain still happened and London was getting bombed and V2'd up until the end of the war.

>>587085

Problem was that Poland couldn't fight for representation without it being given to them in a bid to take German resource. Then Germany came along and took it back in less than a month.

That's just how shit is. :^)

>>587084

If they want it, and fight for it.

If Spain started a retarded war against someone stronger and lost, then then whoever beaten them could have decided "here Catalonia, have independence you always wanted, we don't care, enjoy"

For more irony the new victor could instead take over the territory and attempt at eradicating everything Spanish

If your core principle is "might makes right" then you better don't grow weak, ever.

>>587088

>11 years is 1 month

>>587067

>but do you even want a shithole country like Canada at this point beyond it being a matter of principle?

Poland, Canada is one of the better countries that are existing on rightful Burger clay, most of Mexico is also rightfully ours as is Cuba and the Philippines. Instead of colonizing them we gave them up and in exchange for that mercy they are colonizing us, sad shit. So yes, I entirely want it out of principle.

>>587082

Ironically I would say communism saved countries like Poland and Hungary. The absolute shit that communism drags nations into makes them stronger as a people.

>>587089

to be fair, the operation was 1 month and 5 days.

>>587088

They didn't do it on their own, they double-teamed it with Russia (admittedly 17 days after the fact to most likely keep the rest of Europe out of the squabble temporarily )

>>587069

Germany isn't a country. It's a collection of Duchies joined together by one of the most autistic although I'll grudgingly admit, impressive politicians in human history. There is no such thing as a 'German identity' or 'German people'. There's a Bavarian identity and people, an identity and people of Brandenburg, Hamburg, Saxony, Prussia etc. But no such thing as Germany except for a few agreements made by politicians (in France, lol - Germany confirmed as not even relevant enough to host its own birth as a nation) in 1871. The clay in question is the rightful property of Poland and the Austrohungarian Empire (presumably they split their share equally now that they're two countries). Even America has more history than the fictional nation of 'Germany'.

>>587095

>When you think being disingenuous is an argument

Britain is not a country. It's a loose collection of barbaric shit-flinging primitives. Rightful Roman clay.

>>587100

Says the homeland of Frau Merkal.

>>587097

>When you think historical illiteracy is an argument.

You might have had a point if you'd argued for England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. Not much of one, but more than the non-point you have now.

>>587054

This tbh

>>587104

Well, a Turk would know how easy it is to set up a non-country and pretend it was worth a damn. : ^ )

>>587105

Still wanted to give my opinion.

>>587106

Actually a potatonigger/britcuck.

>>587107

>a potatonigger

opinion discarded

>>587059

>Dude. Poland had been a thing since Duke Mieszko I set it up in 992AD.

Poland stopped existing in 1795, its recreation in 1918 wasn't because it miraculously regained its independence, but because France and Britain needed something to occupy Germany's eastern territory.

This cut directly in the Prussian granary that supported the whole of Germany and kept them on the brink of starvation. So don't play stupid, after all starvation was one of the British Empire favorite tactics.

Also Poland wasn't created in 992 by Miezko I, it was a dukedom of the Holy Roman Empire and later it only became a Kingdom after the Holy Roman Empire gave Miezkos descendants a crown for successfully Christianizing the Poles.

The title of Holy Roman Emperor was held by Austria Hungary when it took part in the Partitions of Poland. In other words their right to claim to be a Nation was revoke by the same institution that gave it to them in the first place.

>>587067

Don't call other subhumans if you can't even uphold your own Nation without others support.

Your people lost the right to call themselves a Nation in 1979, you were unable to gain independence in 1918 without the help of the British and French, you failed to defend your country again in 1939 and since then you claim to be a strong Nation despite the fact that you continue to rely on bigger forces, first the USSR, now the EU.

>>587095

Are you really this butthurt, just because someone exposed your real nature?

>>587108

The Irish are superior to the anglos

>>587116

>Don't call other subhumans if you can't even uphold your own Nation without others support.

By this logic Rhodesia wasn't a real nation because it couldn't survive getting spitroasted by the UN and the commies.

>>587116

>starvation was one of the British Empire favo(u)rite tactics

Hey, what can I say, it just works.

>>587117

>The Irish are superior to the anglos

Oh, yeah, because they did … that … thing, no, don't remind me, it'll come to me.

>>587119

They were the first country to elect a homosexual Indian to lead them

>>587116

>all this butthurt over having your toys taken away

Dude, you lost the war. Getting shit taken away is what happens when you lose wars. Maybe try not losing wars.

>>587120

You'll also be one of the first countries to fall from the migrants, quickly catching up to Sweden. Also

>bin that knife gov or yer goin ta jail

>capital is majority foreigners with a Muslim mayor

>some of the strictest 'hate' speech laws in Europe

I could say more.

>>587124

>actually believing this

I'm sorry but your Jewish fantasy of western Europe being BLACKED is most likely not going to happen.

>>587125

You sound like a nigger complaining that ebil whitey ruined his mud hut village.

>"great" shitain

>>587127

>anglos start war

>proceed to burn millions of white people alive in terrorist attacks on cities

<"why do they persecute me so?"

>>587125

We wuz free n' sheeeit before the ebil anglos came in and ruined Germany, amirite brotha?

>>587129

Boo hoo, people die in wars. Has that concept not sunk in or something?

>>587129

>people die in wars

whoa

>>587080

>UK supported anti-communist movements all over europe during the interwar period. They even paid Il Duce a weekly wage.

The writer theorizes that the Brits also set up the bolsheviks to win, because they feared that white Russians would be natural allies to conservative Germans due to their love of autocracy.

>>587087

>Why were these elites so certain Germany would lose?

Because they knew from even before the very first moment of the way that they will be able to send both the USA and the USSR against them, and that Hitler won't actually attack Britain in an all out fashion.

>Not sympathetic enough, as the Battle of Britain still happened and London was getting bombed and V2'd up until the end of the war.

According to him the Brits put up the façade of the peace party who strongly suggested that they could take over Britain if only the Germans pressured the population a little bit with some bombings. Which of course had the opposite effect, as the peace party was a farce, and they used the bombings as propaganda tools to stir up pro-war sentiments among the people.

Mind you, I'm playing the devil's advocate here, although I do find this book to be rather convincing.

>>587134

>Australia

>white

>>587135

>has industrial capacity

>non-military target

>>587140

>when people kill Germans in wars, that is not okay!

>>587141

You just want to kill white people

>>587142

Once again, you seem to fail to understand the concept of people dying in wars. And yes, some of those people will be your beloved G*rmans.

>>587148

>waaaah! why didn't you stop attacking us when we got our shit kicked in!

>>587151

>>587149

>intl posters

discarded

>>587152

>anything I don't like and can't argue with is intl!!!

Away back to 4cancer with you.

>>587151

Wouldn't happen to be a nigger would you?

>>587153

>implying crossposters know anything about /intl/

majority are newfags

>>587154

>nigger

lolnope. Just someone who doesn't get butthurt because Germany can't figure out how to win a war against anyone other than the French.

>>587151

Jew

>>587157

>o-oh shit, I can't think of anything to say!

>I know, I'll call him a jew!

I'm sorry to tell you that yes, even your beloved G*rmans can die in war.

>>587160

But you are a Jew

>>587163

>anyone who doesn't worship Germans is a jew

>>587164

If you don't like Hitler you're not white

>>587165

>liking a socialist

No thanks.

>>587166

>Not know what socialism is

Your mind on angloism

>>587167

Of course I know what socialism is. It's the most efficient method of reducing a formerly prosperous country to rubble.

>>587170

>true socialism is…

TRUE SOCIALISM

R

U

E

S

O

C

I

A

L

I

S

M

>>587172

>my speshul snowflake socialism is better and magically solves all the problems of other socialisms that have all failed!

>>587174

The red guys take all the private property and use lots of welfare.

The grey guys are in definitive support of private property and actively reduce welfare

Can you understand yet?

>>587175

No, the grey guys create imaginary economic growth through deficit spending and then try to swallow up as much territory as possible to keep the wheels turning in a massive plunder economy.

>>587176

>Can you understand yet

<No

That's all you needed to say buddy. Try to get your information on political systems from places other than Starship Troopers

>>587177

>no argument

I'll spoonfeed you, just this once.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills

>>>587177

It's as economically unsustainable as any other kind of socialism. Even conquering basically all of Europe (adding its output, resources, and wealth to Germany's) and starting slave labour wasn't enough to stave off the inevitable collapse that always comes when a socialist is allowed to implement his theories.

>>587180

If I call communism 'collectivist capitalism' is it now right-wing and comparable to other right-wing ideologies?

>>587182

>If I call shit 'sugar' will it start tasting sweet?

No. Retard.

>>587176

See: >>587047

The economic success of Germany was mostly dependent on the willingness of Anglo-American bankers to give them loans, who only gave them those when it served their goals. Of course Mefo bills and such did play a role, but only after they were in control of the German banking system.

>>587180

That's a wee bit dishonest, as you are speaking of a war economy that needed to supply millions of men and who know how many gigatons of material every month.

>>587185

That's my point you unbelievably dense retard

>>587181

>1934

Except the bills continued to be issued throughout the 1930s. By 1939, there were 12 billion Reichsmark in MEFO bills still in circulation:

"Essentially, mefo bills enabled the German Reich to run a greater deficit than it would normally have been able to. By 1939, there were 12 billion Reichsmark of mefo bills, compared to 19 billion of normal government bonds."

>specifically to bypass Versailles

The point is they ammounted to deficit spending that was used to stimulate the economy by spending money Germany did not have. The "German miracle" was nothing more than unsustainable deficit spending, and if WW2 hadn't started Germany would have collapsed economically sometime in the 1940s.

>>587187

Reading back through your posts you don't appear to have a point. You make claims that directly contradict reality and then insult people when they tell you that you're wrong. Those people quickly figure out how pointless engaging with you is and just start calling you a retard because you act like a retard. I'd suggest you stop acting like a retard and do your level best to stop fellating Hitlers rotting, monoballed, cock.

>>587084

Having a claim to a territory and actually starting a war are two different things. You can act on your claim but it's still a war of aggression, as you are solely responsible for causing it. Framing Germany as anything but the aggressor is pure rationalization, even if they were justified.

>>587095

You could say that about anywhere if you dig back long enough.

>>587170

>mixed markets, leaning towards free

That's a funny way to spell "vampire economy."

>>587191

>You could say that about anywhere if you dig back long enough.

Fine. Arbitrary line in the sand time then. Was X a country before 1500? If not then it's not a country (yet at least, give X a few centuries and we'll see).

>>587188

your mom's pussy will collapse after I stretch it out with my monster Aryan seed planter

>>587197

>"LeMay was focused on only one thing: target destruction."

>"Most Air Force generals could tell you how many planes they had; how many bombs they dropped"

>"But LeMay was the only person that I knew in the senior command in the Air Force that focused solely on the loss of his crews per unit of target destruction."

He says that like it's a bad thing.

>>587200

He's not saying it's a bad thing though. That's Robert "Use Rainbow Agents on Gooks" McNamera.

>>587201

It just sounds like he's dismayed when he's saying it.

>That's Robert "Use Rainbow Agents on Gooks" McNamera

More like Robert "Send out eight F-105s carrying one bomb each instead of one F-105 carrying eight bombs just so I can keep the Magic Sortie Rate up" McNamera. The man was a great bean counter, but he never should have been allowed anywhere near the top command; him or his fellow statistician buddies.

The only decent teachers I had in public school were Vietnam vets.

I don't know if there's any correlation there, but I had like ten of them throughout school and they seemed to give way more of a shit about actually teaching instead of simply reading from a textbook.

>>587197

>Implying strategic bombing ever did anything.

>Despite every post war studies showing it never did a dent into military production.

>Hitler lost the battle of England, by shifting from tactical and precision bombing to strategic bombing.

>Hitler lost the battle of Stalingrad by shifting from tactical and precision bombing to strategic bombing.

Strategic bombing lost the war for germany. The US lucked out that German and Japanese armies were too busy fighting much bigger in a much more violent conflict (and that the UK were dumb enough to share their nuclear research with them), else strategic bombing would have lost the war for the US too.

Strategic bombing is ONLY good at murdering civilian populations (if you think bombed people call for surrenders, you know human nature about as much as a communist) and gorge war profiteers.

Which is why the (((US establishement))) like it so much.

>>587212

>the UK were dumb enough to share their nuclear research with them

>A little reading into the work of R. Peierls and O. Frisch at the University of Birmingham later.

Holy shit. Things you never knew. Cheers mate. As for the strategic bombing I'm fairly sure that Britain started that as a response to the Luftwaffles bombing British cities, and the Americans fell in with the doctrine once they entered the war.

>>587212

>Mass bombing of factories, armories, and depots does nothing

>US lucked out that the Japanese army was fighting a much bigger, and more violent conflict

And the Soviets got the nuke because of the Rosenkikes

>>587063

I've declared the 600 acres of leafland I own to be American soil, I still haven't gotten a response back from either the cuckold who had his fat lackey send me a nasty letter or Trump. I should honestly start setting up border stones and shit.

>>587188

There was $185 billion worth of war bonds bought in the US alone. Please tell me how the american economy collapsed after the war.

>>587189

>I'm too stupid to read

Didn't have to say it outright buddy, it's pretty clear already.

>>587191

>Steal land to punish a country in a war they didn't start

>Fuck up their nation for two decades

>Then call them the aggressors when they take back said stolen land alongside a former ally which they also stole land from

>>587231

The point isn't the amount raised, it's that the entire economic recovery was based on that deficit spending. By 1939, the deficit had risen to almost twenty billion Reichsmarks, or $8 billion. Given that Germany's GDP in 1939 was $46 billion, this represents a deficit of around 15% of GDP – about comparable to Greece's deficit at its worst and about one and a half times as bad as America's deficits during Obama's trillion dollar deficits. This is deficitt not counting payment on MEFO bills. And this deficit was growing every single year. Whereas America's deficit in WW2 effectively ended as soon as the war did and the military was drawn down, Germany had to maintain this deficit to keep their economy going. The MEFO bills were just an additional source of government spending concealed through inventive accounting procedures.

In the 1930s the average German worker was already devoting around a quarter of his income to taxes and government programs, and even this wasn't enough to bring the deficit below 15%. So what happens in the future, when the government has to spend more and more money to get lesser and lesser results thanks to the law of diminishing returns, and interest on debt starts to become a major factor in your budget, further increasing expenditures? You're already taxing people significantly. Do you just raise taxes further and further, strangling economic growth even more and leading to dissent? Eventually you'll get riots, and eventually even outright economic confiscation won't be able to pay for the spiraling debt. So then what? Print money out of nowhere? Go back to Weimar style hyperinflation?

And all that's ignoring the fact that a large and increasing portion (60% by 1939) of this deficit was spent on military arms – implements which produce no economic value of their own (unless you go to war). So what happens when you've already built most of the infrastructure you need and you can't justify more building which is necessary to keep the economy going? Do you just keep building thousands upon thousands of tanks, which just sit in some field somewhere producing no value on their own, and just sucking down oil that you're already desperately short of, further constricting the civilian economy? Do you try to scrape together civilian infrastructure spending by building roads to nowhere and empty cities like China is now?

Then there's the limits to economic growth imposed by population. At a certain point you hit maximum practical employment, and you can't just grow the economy by employing more people anymore. Germany hit this point just before the war started – 1938. At that point, growth has to slow as growth can only be created by improving productivity, something that is more difficult than just rounding up unemployed citizens and telling them to build a road or bridge or tank.

>>587254

>>587231

But who cares, you say. Why do we need endless growth? You need endless growth for two reasons. The first is because of that debt you've built up in a decade or more of deficit spending. It's not going away. You clearly don't have a pile of cash lying around someplace, since if you did you wouldn't have borrowed in the first place, so the only way to pay off the debt is through tax income. But your tax income wasn't high enough to pay for all government expenditures in previous years, hence all the debt. Maybe if you slash spending the deficit can be reduced, but even without all the infrastructure spending you're probably not going to have a massive surplus without outright property confiscation, and that's not considering the mounting costs of interest. So your only hope is to try to drive tax income higher by growing the economy. Which, in Germany's case, was done primarily by dumping more money into fixed investments, which only worsens the deficit.

The second reason you have to keep perpetual GDP growth is because if you don't unemployment goes back up to 20-30%. What do you think happened to all those unemployed people in 1933? Some of them were employed in long-term jobs, but a lot of them were employed through those government investment programs. So what happens to all those workers building those Autobahns or working in a Krupp plant building artillery when you eventually saturate your economy with as much investment as you realistically need? Sure, some of them can be employed long-term in infrastructure repair, but your employment needs are now drastically lower. So now you've got a quarter of your population back on the unemployment dole – unless, of course, you keep them employed with more and more make work infrastructure projects, which in turn require more and more deficit spending.

The end result of all this is a deficit spiral and flattening of GDP growth that eventually ends in the nation's bankruptcy and economic collapse, because the economy was overly reliant upon fixed investment paid for by government deficits. The only real solution to this problem is to either stop it early and deal with the pain of the inevitable (but short and small if you stop early) recession. This was not an option for Germany, since the "recession" would involve sinking almost back to normal 1933 Great Depression economic conditions and by 1939 it had been going on long enough that the debt and reliance on fixed investment had mounted to astronomical levels.

The other option is to go to war, seize land, assets, and people from the countries you conquer, and use that to grow the economy and secure funds to pay off your debts. A standard plunder economy. This is essentially what Germany did in WW2. Had they won, there would have been a chance that they could have engineered their way out of the deficit spiral by gradually bringing down spending and paying off debt with war plunder, while gradually employing Germans in non-investment related fields using the resources gained. However, it's also possible that they just would have continued fixed investment with their massive new piles of cash and just tried to keep the plates spinning until they could conquer no more land and everything came crashing down in a massive economic/political/social collapse sort of like the Soviet Union.

>>586571

>lieutenant major

Why so much hate for the Anglo? He didn't do anything wrong and his history is spotless.

>>587277

Hey, fucking leaf, you're an Anglo too (unless you were admitting to being a Quebecker), and while our history might not be spotless it was all entirely justified and necessary.

>>587364

Except most of their debt was owed to Germans. So they wouldn't have been withholding payments to some foreign bank somewhere, they'd be withholding payments to their own people who they had forced to lend money to the government or who had their property confiscated with promises of future repayment.

Then there's the fact that even if they did just say "lolnope we're not paying our people back," you still have the problem that you need to keep up deficit spending just to keep the economy going. So once you declare all your debt null and void, what then? You've still got to borrow more to keep unemployment down. Only now you'll have to try and borrow from people who know from experience that you'll never pay them back, and they sure as shit aren't going to lend to you willingly. International banks certainly won't for the same reason. I guess you could avoid confiscation entirely and just print money, in which case you go back to Weimar inflation.

Your only real options at that point are either print endless money or send in the military to force people to give up everything they own at gunpoint to fund more make-work projects that are increasingly having less and less of a real economic benefit. The first option leads to massive economic hardship and probably a revolution. The second option basically does the same thing. The third way is to attempt confiscation by going to war, which is what Germany did, since that was the only real choice they had to maintain their shitty economic policies. The unfortunate result of going to war to strip mine all your neighbors of resources is that it leads to everyone in the entire world allying against you, which puts you in an unwinnable war.

At the end of the day, you can't really argue that German economic policy under the NSDAP was anything other than short-sighted and ultimately disastrous. They built their economy on endless government deficit spending funded by resource confiscation, which is not a viable long-term solution unless you're by far the largest fish in the pond, which Germany wasn't. Even then, such a system is unsustainable as you eventually run out of new lands to conquer and your massive empire becomes unwieldy and prone to revolutions as all the people you've conquered decide they don't really like being subjugated by foreigners. The fact is that Germany was almost certainly doomed by the NSDAP's economic policy long before they lost any particular battle. The only question was how successful they could be at conquering new territory before their shitty policies caught up with them.

>>587440

>this is your brain on Judaism

wew

>>587474

>understanding that economic resources are limited and unending deficit spending isn't a good economic policy is judaism

>>587474

Care to explain?

>>587344

Wow, why are you being hostile when I defended you? My family is all from Lancashire btw.

>>587496

Yeah deficit spending wasn't the only trick up Hitler's sleeve. Your argument is ultimately predicated on the fact that the poor fuckers were pushed into a war they didn't want and tried to get out of immediately and for years. It's almost laughable that your ilk claim that going to war was the NSDAP's extended economic policy despite the fact that they tried desperately to avoid war.

>>587509

>yeah deficit spending wasn't the only trick up Hitler's sleeve

Really? Care to explain what the others were? Because deficit spending on fixed investment and rearmament was the only trick he ever used.

>they tried desperately to avoid war

They tried to avoid war while continuing to swallow up as much territory as possible. Yes, Hitler didn't want a war because he realized Germany couldn't win if every other nation declared war on him, which was inevitable if he continued demanding territory from every single neighbor he came up against, but the reality was that Germany needed more plunder to keep the spending going. So Hitler attempted to eat up more and more territory while maintaining peace to keep the economy going without dooming Germany to eventual defeat.

Hitler's plan would have essentially involved Germany taking more and more territory through Treaty of London style diplomacy ad infinitum. Had the Poles caved to his demands for Danzig, he would have kept on making demands for other territory. Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, west Poland, Scandinavia. It would have just continued until someone eventually told Germany to fuck off and started WW2 (if not over Danzig, then over some other bit of land), or until Germany had swallowed up all the small countries and had to make demands directly from France or the USSR, which similarly would have started WW2. And while Germany could, and did, beat France and the other Western powers, WW2 vs the Soviet Union was always something Germany was going to lose unless they managed to pull off a miracle and take the Baku oil fields intact within a month or two of the invasion somehow.

>>587512

You might want to check other economic sectors in Germany at the time. Timber, paper, and cellulose production increased by 100-200% each, non-war manufactured goods increased significantly, and were traded on the open market with everyone. Hell Mauser had several dozen export deals, which were essentially all cancelled because of the outbreak of hostilities. Also the land Germany "gobbled up" wasn't really worth that much in the grand scheme of things (unless you're including German territory in the west which France was illegally occupying as well). Also the land Germany wanted to take from Poland originally was like a 2 km road allowance to Prussia, Danzig only coming into play when the poles started getting really hostile.

>>587545

>Timber, paper, and cellulose production increased by 100-200% each, non-war manufactured goods increased significantly

Largely due to subsidies and government-backed loans, or (in the case of timber and other raw materials) to feed construction demand.

>Mauser had several dozen export deals

Yes, there was a portion of the German economy that was based on actual long-term economic activity. The point is that a significant portion of the new economic growth generated after 1933, as well as a significant percent of all those unemployed who found employment during this period, was based on fixed investment produced through government spending.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying "Germany had no growth." I'm saying the growth Germany had was created through deficit spending through subsidies, state-backed loans, and infrastructure projects, which in the long run would prove unsustainable due to both deficits and the eventual saturation of Germany's fixed investment needs. The nepotism didn't help either.

>wasn't really worth that much in the grand scheme of things

It contained raw materials, people to be used for labor, and assets to be seized. Taking the territory increased the size of the German economy, and thus the value of the government's tax income.

>>587545

>>587567

Kind of a side note, but I'm reading a (Hungarian) book about the Waffen SS in Hungary, and they mentioned that there were talks about moving the Germans of Hungary to the Third Reich after the war was over. Also, they did trade quite a lot with Central European countries, so it's not like they had some kind of a North Korean closed economy.

>>587763

Yup, the NSDAP pretty much wanted all Volksdeutsch back in the Reich. Funny how they say that the USSR would be living space when they were actively moving Germans out of the Soviet Union and into the two areas of Poland that they incorporated into their Reich directly.

>>587763

>Also, they did trade quite a lot with Central European countries

Basically an extension of the Mitteleuropa plan.

It's funny to think of what would have happened had Germany won WW1. They probably would have created the EU: 1920 edition and imposed massive reparations on France and the U.K. to pay off the debt they had run up during the war. Which probably would have led to France falling into Weimar-style conditions, leading to a NSDAP-style surge of nationalism and then WW2 starting with France demanding Alsace-Lorraine from Germany. So Hitler becomes Charles de Gaulle, basically.

>>587771

>not going to school at 00:10:00 exactly.

Pleb, probably got an A in homec as well.

>>587775

Germany was successful because of one philosophy: Research for the sake of research.

They did not have a college of academicians like UK or some bureocrat like France deciding what funding got allocated where, and what was valuable to research instead of what wasn't.

As a result, German research had more "unexpected goldmines" or happy accidents, by venturing where no one else did.

>>587775

> imposed massive reparations on France and the U.K

Probably not.

They would have grabbed most of the french, UK and Belgian colonies in sub Saharan Africa and quite likely the far east colonies from both UK and France they might have asked for some of the debt but they were the ones that declared war, not France or UK so by going by the standard of the time they couldn't ask for more.

Versailles treaty went EASY on Germany money wise (while the territory loss to parties uninvolved was the thing largely unprecedented, if you exclude the dislocation of France by UK after the return of Napoleon, that led to WWII and was, perceived as unjust), it was a lot but it was repayable in a few decade (which is the nature of those) and it had to be at least that high because Germany started the war and then surrendered, which meant the others could ask for the maximum: full reparations (and didn't because Germany would still be paying it).

>>587843

>Versailles treaty went EASY on Germany money wise

They had to pay $33 billion in 1921 dollars; a value more than double their entire GDP. That would put them at a level of debt almost as bad as Greece at its worst, or twice as bad as America now, from reparations alone (so not counting war debt).

And that figure is just half of what the French originally wanted to impose.

>and they didn't because Germany would still be paying it

They were until 2010.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/germany-makes-final-reparation-payments-world-war/story?id=11755920

>>587878

Meant for >>587863

>>587863

I doubt they'd even want that. They offered White Peace ante bellum in 1915 when they were in France.

>>587440

>At the end of the day, you can't really argue that German economic policy under the NSDAP was anything other than short-sighted and ultimately disastrous.

That sounds like a bold statement when they managed to be the most technologically advanced nation the world had ever known, wage war against the rest of the world for over half a decade and almost win and all these without oil.

>Anglo started killing civvies

The more you know.

>>587991

>That sounds like a bold statement when they managed to be the most technologically advanced nation the world had ever known, wage war against the rest of the world for over half a decade and almost win and all these without oil

None of that has anything to do with their economic policy being short term in its focus.

>technologically advanced

The only way Germany was particularly ahead of the allied powers was with the V-2 and (in the early war) because they emphasized mobility, independent tank divisions, and forward decision making instead of trying to fight WW1: part 2.

This is the most passionate discussion about Hey Arnold! Ive ever seen,

>>587258

and he looks like a drill sargeant.

don't take things so seriously, autist. he's clearly meant to just be a military caricature.

THANK YOU ANGLO

You could have avoided all of this. Europe could have still been European.

>>590531

>he thinks Europe was ever European

>he still uses jewtube