9ff4b1 No.547571
>"5.7x28 is just 22 magnum"
>"SBRs are the best close quarters weapon"
>"bolt actions are more accurate than semi autos"
>"bullpups are worse than conventional rifles"
>"6.5 grendel is just a meme"
>"5.56 when shot from an SBR gives ok ballistics"
what are the SHITTIEST gun opinions that you've come across on the internet?
55555f No.547573
>troops should have basic medical gear
>machine guns should use centrefire cartridges
>under barrel shotguns shouldn't be standard issue
49f7e5 No.547575
>>547573
>Troops should get food
cd82a9 No.547576
>>547571
>NATO 40mm underbarrel grenade launchers are good
>full power rifle cartridges have no advantages compared to intermediate ones
>soldiers with rifle cartridges are bound to run out of ammunition in any and all kinds of firefights
>most firefight in the previous century were under 300m, therefore giving anything more effective than a glorified SMG to a basic rifleman is a complete waste
>belt-fed weapons at the squad level are useless
Or really, nearly all the opinions held by Nathaniel F. from thefirearmblog. He's pretty good at collecting, reporting and analyzing new developments, but for some reason he seems to think that firefights work like a 2 gun match. Based on his latest writings he is just a few steps away from advocating for pic related.
9ff4b1 No.547579
>>547575
>>547573
this is why you lost a war to emus.
2c16b9 No.547581
>>547579
>island south of mainland australia is somehow exempt from the loss
b53bcc No.547587
>>547575
>Troops shouldn't get.
0a4c38 No.547588
>>547573
>>547575
>>547587
>get troops not war boars
68365c No.547618
>>547571
>"6.5 grendel is just a meme"
That's true, but not because of the cartridge, but because Bill Alexander is a complete fucking retard and seems to be trying his hardest to kill the round
54773d No.547627
>>547618
>and seems to be trying his hardest to kill the round
y tho?
35ea2d No.547631
>>547573
>>547575
>tfw you OD on agent orange
127047 No.547634
>>547631
Why didn't the US just copy them and start using tunnels as well?
35ea2d No.547636
>>547634
Because North Vietnamese were fighting a largely defensive war while US was fighting a offensive war. Besides that the US had no idea how to be quiet in the jungle like the Vietnamese did so they would dig the tunnels with excavators and dynamite.
At least that's my theory behind it.
68365c No.547637
>>547627
He keeps constantly changing the specs of the round randomly and he does it in the most retarded ways. He gave the original specs to PPU, so they set up tooling and production to produce it and the Serbian army adopted it, but the autist went to them after they had set up production and said "eh, nah, all this machinery and tooling is wrong now, here's the new random specs I like this week" so PPU had to cancel production and recall all their brass.
I think wolf basically told him to fuck off and are producing it at original specs though.
0f3878 No.547639
>>547634
>Vietnam war just devolves into mole people killing each other underground
54773d No.547640
>>547637
but in practice though, which has better ballistics, the original or the new one?
1ead18 No.547664
>>547637
So that's why we never got the Arsenal 6.5 AK's that were promised. I knew about the cartridge fuckery, but never knew that PPU got screwed.
>>547640
Which new one? This shit is worse than 6.8 (Increasingly random SPC numbers).
d75890 No.547671
>AKs are ineffective past 300m
127047 No.547673
54773d No.547677
>>547671
Most intermediate cartridge rifles are in fact ineffective after 350-400 meters unless you're carrying a mk18SPR like weapon
8f3e30 No.547678
>5.56 is a small/weak caliber
240010 No.547685
>>547576
Actually, he advocates for teamwork and dedicated roles. As he, and many others have pointed out, there is no way that a frightened teenager is going to be able to engage an entrenched and dialed in HMG at 1.2 Km. At that distance you'd be lucky to even find it before getting cut to pieces. Crew operated weapons intended to fire on targets at 1-6 Km cannot be effectively engaged with direct fire from rifles.
>full power rifle cartridges have no advantages compared to intermediate ones
Not in fun-mode. You would need a bipod to hit anything with .30 NATO in FA.
>soldiers with rifle cartridges are bound to run out of ammunition in any and all kinds of firefights
It can happen, especially if they're out and about on foot.
"This rifle is great but I wish the ammunition was much bulkier and heavier so I couldn't carry as much." - No one ever
>most firefight in the previous century were under 300m, therefore giving anything more effective than a glorified SMG to a basic rifleman is a complete waste
Most firefights do take place at less than 300 m, therefore it is a waste to adopt a weapon with a range of 1200 m for every man. Those can be just as effective in the hands of specialists who are trained in how to use them most effectively.
>belt-fed weapons at the squad level are useless
Not completely, but also not what he has said. He has pointed out, and a lot of people agree, that belt-feeding mechanisms add complexity, cost, and weight to a weapon that will only very seldom benefit from having that feature. They're also less reliable by an order of magnitude, and the malfunctions they do have are more difficult to clear. That's not something you want to have to deal with in a fight for your life.
>>547571
>"6.5 grendel is just a meme"
But it is. Both 5.56 and 5.45 are adequate for what they do, and in the future we're probably going to have a telescoped ammunition that uses a large diameter barrel (for a rifle) in combination with saboted bullets or flechettes. That way you can change the bullet easily as new projectiles are developed or select the best for a particular situation.
17319e No.547690
>the law of diminishing returns kicks in at 1000 USD for every single weapon
a2482a No.547691
>>547685
>you can change the bullet easily as new projectiles are developed or select the best for a particular situation.
<Squad out onnapatrol
<Starts taking fire
<Identify hostile MGs ~500m away firing on them
<Lt orders men to load HV 8.0mm marksman rounds and dial up the magnification on their sights
<"We've not got those sir!"
<Lt swears quietly and orders them to load 5.5mm standard rounds.
<"Sir, the quartermaster was basically out of everything, all we got issued were those new buckshot rounds, we were told they're basically useless beyond about 60m"
<Lt swears loudly and desperately looks for some kind of cover to help with the advance on an entrenched enemy half a kilometre away
BAD END
The only thing less reliable than military logistics is military intelligence.
ccb72c No.547702
>>547571
mostly, debatable, true, true, false, sorta.
so the shittiest opinions so far would be (you)
>>547637
Alexander handed over grendel to SAAMI in 2011, it's been a public spec for 7 years, this is ancient history.
>>547664
>6.5 grendel is worse than 6.8
according to your friend in the Tapout shirt
265ef3 No.547705
>>547691
Where's the part where they call for air support and it solves everything?
36fa4c No.547707
>>547691
>knee mortars/mortar rounds for anyone without a special issue weapon.
>standard issue small PDW that fires a .30 carbine-esque round.. (vehicle crews, artillery, etc.)
>special issue GPMG's & DMR's for the better shooters.
Only two or three different cartridges for easy logistics & near instantaneous fire support for a squad. Most troops can't hit the broad side of a barn past 100 yards in combat with a rifle so an .30 carbine-esque round is a non issue; especially when they have weapons with full power rounds and mortars along with them.
ccb72c No.547710
>>547702
>>547664
oh i thought you were calling 6.8spc a better round. yeah the "versions" of spc was a retarded mess. and it's still not that good.
1ead18 No.547719
>>547710
>yeah the "versions" of spc was a retarded mess. and it's still not that good
It's great for getting people to pay $1+ a round for a 7.62x39 equivalent, kind of like factory supersonic .300Blk.
d75890 No.547721
>>547707
>>special issue GPMG's & DMR's for the better shooters.
Or do what USMC did which is issue ACOGs to every infantryman, therefore turning anyone who can get at least Rifle Marksman badge into a DM
36fa4c No.547729
>>547721
I'm going off my own theory that more explosives = more better. Hence a small PDW with a small cartridge being a standard issue weapon; it makes more room for explosives and devices for throwing them.
d75890 No.547740
>>547729
> Hence a small PDW with a small cartridge being a standard issue weapon
5.56 is not great but replacing it with a new round would be a huge logistical clusterfuck. Instead why not issue every infantryman with a standalone GL so that they aren't complaining that their rifles are too heavy which fires a 25mm smart round like XM25? Because those are programmable rounds they are much more accurate and therefore can be used less than 40mm with the same effect
550234 No.547750
>"bullpups are worse than conventional rifles"
Ah I get it, throw out several fudd opinions but put something true in between them. Thats a decent troll tactic.
Let me try
>water is dry
>2+2=3
>india is stronk
>9mm is less powerful than 10mm
>tfbtv is accurate
>taurus is a good manufacturer
134c17 No.547751
>>547685
>Not in fun-mode. You would need a bipod to hit anything with .30 NATO in FA.
except no one uses full auto in 5.56 rifles. point moot.
550234 No.547752
>>547685
Wow youre worse than OP
>>547707
"Most firefights take place at X yards"
"Most troops cant do X"
^ this is a really dumb way to run your military, you end up killing 49% of your troops because you optimize for 51% of the situations.
Moronic in fact.
134c17 No.547753
>>547690
>>the law of diminishing returns kicks in at 1000 USD for every single weapon
true. compare a USP 45 Elite to a Semi Custom/Custom 1911. the USP 45 Elite cost 900-1000 dollars, the others, multiple 1000 by 3 or 5.
550234 No.547755
>>547691
"Lets use one universal X to simplify logistics/tactics"
^ also a dumb way to think, because a flexible enemy adapts to your one monolithic X and you die
Like taliban noticing carbines, assault rifles, dmr, and mg are all in one cartridge - 5.56 - so they ditch all their x39 rifles, get x54r guns, and attack from beyond ranges our troops can engage.
they kited us for a decade, the only times we could return fire is if a crew served was nearby. so we only traveled in giant groups and never sent fireteams more than 500 yards away from the vehicles. the decision not to have variety at fireteam level totally fucked us.
ff546d No.547757
>>547571
>"bullpups are worse than conventional rifles"
(((Tavor))) owner here. I'd take my AR over my Tavor in any non-range/fun shooting scenario.
240010 No.547760
>>547691
Not really what I was talking about. The problem with adopting any new cartridge or bullet is that we already have a lot of equipment chambered for the 0.223". Going to anything new, no matter how good it might be, is going to be monstrously expensive. This is why, in spite of new wildcats coming out every couple of years that have marginally better performance than the current ammunition, we're still using rifles chambered for 0.223". There have been minor tweaks here and there, but the cartridge and bullet restrict what engineers can do.
Moving to a telescoped cartridge and a larger bore weapon would allow bullets of any size, with any propellant load, to be fired with little or no modification. By going this route you can adopt the new load and bullet without needing to adopt a new rifle. When someone comes up with a new wildcat bullet with better performance it can be put into production immediately at the cost of retooling for the bullet only, existing hardware is still usable.
d75890 No.547761
>>547760
>Moving to a telescoped cartridge and a larger bore weapon would allow bullets of any size, with any propellant load, to be fired with little or no modification. By going this route you can adopt the new load and bullet without needing to adopt a new rifle. When someone comes up with a new wildcat bullet with better performance it can be put into production immediately at the cost of retooling for the bullet only, existing hardware is still usable.
I'm pretty sure that's how future rifles are going to be like
e8bd77 No.547762
>>547571
Tunisia having an opinion is the shittiest.
6b9cee No.547765
>everything I don't like is fudd
>10mm is best round
d75890 No.547766
>>547765
>everything commonly used is bad
6b9cee No.547771
>>547750
>>547752
>>547755
>>547757
>(((mysteriously missing flag))) comes in to shill for bullpups and tavors
55555f No.547776
>>547771
>I'd take my AR over my Tavor in any non-range/fun shooting scenario.
Gee, sure sounds like something a yidshill would say.
>>"bullpups are worse than conventional rifles"
>Ah I get it, throw out several fudd opinions but put something true in between them.
Yep, definitely something a Tavor shill would say.
I take it you're in that 44%? Maybe the 13% that makes up over half of the homicide rate?
d75890 No.547778
>>547776
>I'd take my AR over my Tavor sounds like something a yidshill would say.
Are you drunk?
ccb72c No.547779
>>547778
are you? that's clearly sarcasm
d75890 No.547780
fb3fe2 No.547797
>>547779
>>547780
>>547778
>>547776
Lads, please.
The INSAS is a far superior firearm compared to your filthy ARs and Tavors.
You'll be staring down their barrels once the pooperpower2020 military annexes emu land and mcdonalds
a2482a No.547798
>>547705
Where's the part where in a few years time we're not fighting desert raised goatfuckers with 1950's kit. You are aware that against an enemy with actual air defence the lack of SEAD in NATO airforces will lead to most of our aircraft being grounded one way or another.
>>547755
Absolutely, most military decisions come down to two options: the one that screws you for lack of options, and the one that screws you because because logistics can't feed you everything all the time. Most armies stick with the first one because it's cheaper.
>>547760
Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a good idea and a definite improvement over what's happened so far. At the same time it's exactly the sort of idea that won't happen for all the reasons you listed.
>>547797
>The INSAS is a far superior firearm compared to your filthy ARs and Tavors.
You're all forgetting the apex of modern small arms development. Highest MRBS of all NATO service rifles, most accurate standard issue rifle out there, you might bitch about the weight but remember that's only a problem that manlets whinge about.
fb3fe2 No.547800
>>547798
Come on now, you can't say that the L85A1 is even comparable to the patented PajeetTech RDS (Rape Defense System) Anti Theft Operator Please Install TeamViewer oil ejection setup on the INSAS. People always want firearms that are theft-proof, especially since terrorists and whatnot tend to (((somehow))) obtain them, so the Indian army simply made their rifle spit burning oil into the eyes of the operator…
Hopefully the insurgents don't wear goggles or wonder why the Indians do. We'll figure it out.
a2482a No.547801
>>547800
>L85A1
What was the filename I used?
fb3fe2 No.547806
>>547801
Your filename clearly states "L85A1", as in the combat-tested and incredibly reliable British rifle. Not the L85A2, the weird kraut raped blob that removed all the gun's quirky character traits.
a2482a No.547808
>>547806
The A2 has seen service in Afghanistan, and is significantly more reliable than the A1. Brainfart harder Burger-boy, those vitamin pills your mother put you on are sapping your male vitality and impurifying your bodily fluids.
57aca6 No.547840
>>547631
>tfw you will never own an SKS with a cleaning rod, a bayonet, and full cleaning kit
>tfw you will never hug your raifu and whisper sweet stories of oil and cleaning rags into her ear as you fondle her magazine
>tfw you will never calmly lock her bolt in the backwards position and reach around to touch her insides
>tfw you will never own your raifu
Why must life be this shit?
550234 No.547847
>>547776
>>547771
Are you retarded? Its a quadruple negative you idiot.
The greentext are "wrong opinions", OP saying that
>"bullpups are worse than conventional rifles"
Is an incorrect opinion, means OP thinks bullpups are actually BETTER than conventional rifles.
And I was making fun of him for holding such a retarded opinion.
550234 No.547849
>>547798
>100 years ago armies were capable of providing logistics for a half dozen rifle cartridges on a massive scale
>modern armies cant provide logi for two rifle cartridges on a far smaller scale
I refuse to believe that.
a2482a No.547855
>>547849
I'm sure that they could, if you completely reordered the logistical arm and massively increased their budget. Then again as a modern military need to spend billions of dollaridoos every year on all the latest and greatest 'totally going to fix all the problems this time, we swear, honest' aircraft, missiles, and warships that are about 90% bleeding edge electronics best of luck getting that through the budget committee. Amusingly it would actually be much easier for a smaller military with a lower total budget to push that through, as their politicians and staff officers don't feel the need to polish their dicks about how super high tech 'new thing X' is - well, they feel it a little bit less at least.
1eef20 No.547859
>>547855
>Bleeding edge electronics
Nigger the Navy still uses PTH shit instead of SMD, and modulized shit so the technician just replaces the whole circuitboard or part and throws it away instead of replacing it and repairing the old one or just replacing a component that is likely to be the point of failure. None of their shit passes basic inspection standards used in the private sector. The only thing the military has is a big budget.
a8b4f8 No.547863
>>547840
If you guys can get an AR style rifle what makes the sks so hard? If anything shouldn't it be easier due to your location relative to eastern EUor do you want some rare ass East German sks with the very pretty wood
648a1f No.547867
>>547840
Just move to Switzerland
57aca6 No.547871
>>547867
>moving to mountainFrance/Italy
>ever
nah mate. Home is where your heart is, an my heart is right here.
>>547863
Rifles for hunting purposes may not hold more than 3 rounds in the magazine+1 in the chamber.
To obtain an SKS you would need a collectors license (which means that you can not get ammo for it, you would need to also have a collection of ammunition too, so unless you want to buy some WWII rifles and ammo from that period too, you are fresh out of luck, because those cost a lot because you must obtain them through LEGAL means)
Also: any semi/full auto weapon issued by ANY military in the world after 1945 are outright outlawed as "weapons of war". Hunters get a free pass here, because their funs are oftentimes just a differently named version of the gun with no changes made to the mechanics.
So yeah, I can't ever get an SKS, because it was issued after 1945 and can hold more than 3 rounds in the magazine (if it was modified to take only 3 and sold under a different name it would be fine). I could probably get a Mosin, or a Springfield though.
Kar 98s go for something like 200 Eurobucks. Pic related.
a8b4f8 No.547872
>>547871
>any semi/full auto weapon issued by ANY military in the world after 1945 are outright outlawed as "weapons of war"
Shit. learn something new everyday. So the reason I've seen some Germans with an AR style is because it was a semi only for civilian sale then.
19e724 No.547873
>>547859
>PTH shit instead of SMD
PTH looks like the more rugged option to me
57aca6 No.547884
>>547872
> Germans with an AR style is because it was a semi only for civilian sale then.
Pretty much. Please note that, while the magazine may look like a standard 30 round mag, these guns can only hold a maximum of 10 shots for sport shooting purposes. Hunting versions can only hold 2 shots in the magazine.
The thing about funs in Germany is that it takes a lot of effort/time to get a license, but once you have one there is a thriving civilian market for you to dwell in.
Still can't have an SKS though :^)
57aca6 No.547886
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
0a97c9 No.547887
>>547884
The SKS is a piece of shit. nb4 "rifle is fine, comrade," you can clean it with gasoline, and it will still randomly slamfire multiple rounds when the action slams home sometimes. A danger to everyone. An Eastern Euro ergonomic tragedy for the ages, obsolete from day one! Buy American, ARs only suck a little, and the parts are easily replaced when they break.
ff546d No.547888
>>547771
>>547776
>>547797
Guys. I legit said I like my AR better than my Tavor. What the hell are you bitchig about? Hell, I'd take an M1A with 5 round mags over my Tavor.
7f77b0 No.547889
>>547887
>and it will still randomly slamfire multiple rounds when the action slams home sometimes
https://murraysguns.com/sks-firing-pins/
Early Russian SKSs had return springs on the firing pins, I ordered one of these for my Chink SKS and dropped it in the bolt. Works fine.
1c4a32 No.547891
>>547888
Hans-Hermann Hoppe trips speak the truth. I have to ask though, what possessed you to buy a Tabor in the first place if you understand how shit it is. If you're the kind of fag that likes bullpups, why not go for an AUG? Or any other bullpup out there that's not a Tavor?
0a97c9 No.547894
>>547889
If it works, this does improve the situation, but I sold mine to a licensed dealer at profit, due to several other issues like light primer strikes on crappy Wolf ammo.
0c974c No.547896
>>547571
>7.62x39 is a better intermediate than 5.45x39
>LMGs should use rifle calibre rounds
>PDW calibre rounds are memes like the G11 is and won't go anywhere
>.45 ACP is a better SMG round than 9mm Parabellum
ff546d No.547899
>>547891
Right after it launched, I heard the X95 was way better than the previous one and found a used one cheap. Thankfully, I didn't spend much on it after I bought it (just a new port cover). I've been trying to find a buyer. Probably will build another AR once I sell it.
252e2a No.547900
>>547685
>But it is. Both 5.56 and 5.45 are adequate for what they do
>he doesn't want 308 ballistics in an intermediate caliber
faggot
ada8ad No.547908
>>547900
6.5 Grendel drops out at 300 meters, faget
And that's with fudd ammo meant for long range.
550234 No.547914
>>547908
Sauce?
Out of a 24 inch MG barrel, it maintains supersonic for 200 meters longer than 7.62 NATO.
55555f No.547921
>>547847
>>547888
Jesus Christ, I was defending you. At least one of us is retarded.
b9fcf7 No.548059
>>547908
Here's a 308vs6.5 you bitch nigger
19e724 No.548091
>>548059
We'll need muzzle velocity and bullet BC to read that chart
2ba736 No.548106
>>547571
>bolt actions are more accurate than semi autos
it's true
sage for shitty bait thread
b9fcf7 No.548141
>>548106
No, find me one rifle that's more accurate in the hands of a man than a quality semi auto like the SR25.
And the M110 already achieves half an MOA of accuracy
Even if it was more accurate than semi, by how much at most? 0.1 MOA?
>>548091
You don't, all that pic is supposed to convey is that 6.5 has slightly less drop than 308 by a negligible amount despite that 6.5 is an intermediate cartridge.
d75890 No.548154
>>548143
Maybe something like upgraded M320 that could fire programmable grenades like XM25.
1c4a32 No.548157
>>548106
Like >>548141 said, it's only technically true. Attaching a gas tube to the barrel will slightly alter harmonics, which will have a small effect on the consistency of your shots. Realistically, however, there aren't any shooters alive with enough skill to notice the difference.
2ba736 No.548158
>>548141
>hue hue hue muh m359023 muh m2329058
it's a fucking AR
AR's are accurate as semi-auto's, but they're not as accurate as bolt-actions. It's simple; there's more moving parts and inherently less rigidity in the guns. More potential movement = less accuracy.
>hue hue hue muh 6.5
fuck off with this stupid meme
2ba736 No.548161
>>548157
>no one is alive that can notice the difference between an AR and a bolt-action in accuracy
you never shot a gun before in your life, you're a moron talking out of your ass.
550234 No.548162
>>548154
>programmable grenades
>fuse takes up 80% of volume
>only 20% of space left for HE
>cost increased by 150x
>explosive radius decreased by 5x
Not feasible… would be better off building a 12.7mm assault rifle that can penetrate the cover instead of explode over it.
550234 No.548166
>>548157
>>548158
M4 mil spec 4 MOA, but can get 2 MOA with more match-like ammo. Lets say average of 3.
AK patterns range from 2-6 MOA, average of 4. And as already said, most of that difference is ammo (and ak manufacturer), not any flaws in the core rifle design.
Mid range civilian bolt actions are often 1-2 MOA, and sub MOA accuracy out of the box is not uncommon with the right ammo.
19e724 No.548184
>>548141
>You don't, all that pic is supposed to convey is that 6.5 has slightly less drop than 308 by a negligible amount
You're pretty dense aren't you
d75890 No.548199
>>548162
>what is shrapnel
Why destroy cover when you can simply kill those who are behind it?
ccb72c No.548200
>>547908
what and what. christ this thread is a honeypot for noguns.
b9fcf7 No.548201
>>548158
You're missing the point, which is nobody gives a fuck
you will never ever be able harness that missing 0.01MOA unless you're a bench resting fudd.
>>548166
>M4 mil spec 4 MOA
what
>AK patterns range from 2-6 MOA
>6MOA
WHAT
550234 No.548208
>>548199
HE-FRAG 40mm in M203 has a 5m kill radius. Addition of a fuse would decrease that by at least 3x due to square cube rule.
d75890 No.548209
>>548208
Air burst grenades are superior in urban setting where you don't want to damage the structure to much as well as when target is in a trench or behind solid object like a rock
550234 No.548210
>>548201
Noice quote mine, remove aaaall that boring context and qualifiers.
3ae755 No.548211
>>548209
Just use WP. Even if your aim is a bit off, the smoke will obscure the enemy's vision and also suffocate them, so they will be forced to move. And most buildings can survive a fire relatively well.
550234 No.548213
>>548209
The 40mm just doesnt have space man. You'd need to go 60+mm to make it workable.
Pic related last effective rifleman grenade designed by DOD.
550234 No.548214
>>548213
By the way in one test of the RAW an untrained user hit a moving car at 300m. Because it has small rockets spinning it super fast which gyrostabilizes it.
M203 with 40mm has a max trained effective range of 150 yards in comparison, and never on moving targets.
1c4a32 No.548216
>>548166
Those numbers speak more to the quality of the average M4 than to the precision limitations of semiautos. You can put a .75-1 MOA AR together at "midrange prices" for the platform.
9b970e No.548222
>>548141
Yes, we do need to know BC and weight of the rounds you're comparing. Not all 7.62x51 are the same, not all Grendel are the same. Some tips perform better at longer range and weight is a huge factor. Post the whole spreadsheet of what you're comparing.
2ba736 No.548238
>>548201
>I'm a fudd because bolt actions
wow, what a moron. Impressive tbh
and the difference is about 2-3 MOA with something like a savage 110.
and you know why you can't harness that? Because you don't shoot. You just meme about guns on an imageboard.
>AK's 6moa omg no
yeah, it can be worse than that too. but again, you wouldn't know that because you don't shoot, for you it's just a meme.
ccb72c No.548291
>>548216
3/4 moa my dick, more like 1.5 to 2MOA, which is great. the design has a lot of inherent accuracy due to the extension design, but sub MOA is harder to make happen than in a bolt gun. part of why 223 wylde chambers are becoming popular, the long lead 5.56 has for military reasons isn't good for accuracy.
a2482a No.548302
>>547896
>.45 ACP is a better SMG round than 9mm Parabellum
Everyone knows that the best SMG round is .50bmg+p - the only reason we don't use it is that the geneva convention made it illegal to use .50 rounds against human targets :^)
71e353 No.548320
>>548238
if you can't get 1.5-2MOA groups with an AR, and 2-3MOA groups with an AK then i'm going to assume you're handicapped
550234 No.548337
>>548216
>You can put a .75-1 MOA AR together at "midrange prices" for the platform.
a) Yeah or you can fuck it up like almost all of the people who build their own AR
b) A civilian AR is not a military M4, which has specifications
c) The very fact one can pick parts from various manufacturers, makes it a bad comparison
d) 223 on the market are closer to match, which is why theyre more expensive
e) The less complicated centerline recoil is why M4 is more accurate, but its not multiple times accurate
>>548320
An AR is not a M4. Commercial AR builds do not have military specifications (or mil spec), they have manufacturer specifications if anything. Commercial AR builds are also far better than military, because the military buys firearms with $300 to $500 price range, and that is overpaying. Whereas AK imports on the market are actually worse than what militaries use due to import regulation forcing them to get sent in parts and assembled by illegal mexicans, while adding safeties that completely fuck up the rifle. The only good AR builds are custom.
>if you cant get
What is that supposed to mean?
1861a7 No.548341
>>547685
>there is no way that a frightened teenager is going to be able to engage an entrenched and dialed in HMG at 1.2 Km
Why the fuck would you send nervous teens to a war? Are we discussing the Red Army or the Volkssturm here?
fc6cda No.548352
>>547872
The thing with German Weapons Law is that while Rifles for Sport Shooting can only have 10 round mags and hunters currently have to live with the government trying to push the 3+1 rule when they could just use 10 round mags like the Sport Shooters before, you can legally buy 30 round mags and more because the magazine is not part of the rifle but its own object.
4c757c No.548360
>>548341
Because nervous teens are batshit crazy and fearless even without any drugs? Drugs are expensive, y'now.
287c89 No.548371
>>548337
>What is that supposed to mean?
if you can't SHOOT an AR for at least 2-1.5 MOA
even the oldest, shittiest, most beaten, raped and tortured M4 in the military could still probs give you consistent 2 to 2.5MOA.
13c4bc No.548375
>>547849
>>100 years ago armies were capable of providing logistics for a half dozen rifle cartridges on a massive scale
If by "armies" you mean the armies of continental Europe, then sure. It's easy to supply your troops with a variety of cartridges when you're fighting in your own back yard and your supply lines can be maintained almost exclusively by over-the-road means (plus rail).
That line of thinking falls apart when applied to the colonial armies and overseas operations of that era. There's a reason why the British standardized on a single rifle cartridge (.303) and kept it in service through the end of the second world war despite it being woefully outdated by the end of the first world war. The logistics of supplying a global empire prevent any sort of complicated inventory management. Just look at the logistical issues experienced by the Japanese in WWII for a perfect example of why carrying the logistical weight of just 2 standard cartridges at the same time proved debilitating (never mind the need to carry an additional low power load of one cartridge for the early war standard LMG).
Carrying different cartridges does make sense if they're standardized by weapon type but trying to supply more than one type per weapon class ends in a clusterfuck.
58c860 No.548438
>>548154
DoD is working at 40mm prox fuse that can provide above barricade detonation without any prior settings. Just send grenade over and it will detect overflying barricade with radar.
58c860 No.548444
>>548375
Just don't be poorr niggers. US had 4 types of small arms ammo in WWII and did fine.
80df0a No.548457
>>548375
The japs did not have two standard cartridges. Their woodpeckers used a round that couldn't be chambered in the rifles, the Navy used .303 on their lewis clones. Jap logistics were a clusterfuck during the war and it makes you wonder how the fuck they got anything done.
2ba736 No.548491
>>548320
>hue hue hue muh MOA
Where I get 2 moa groups with an AR at 100 yards, I get sub-moa groups with a decent bolt-action.
and AK quality varies widely. I have a piece of shit MAK-90 that gets around 10 MOA on the russian bi-metal garbage. Horrible, horrible accuracy, then I owned a Vepr that had 2 moa AR accuracy.
Bolt-actions are more accurate for reasons already stated, reasons you ignored, and so implicitly conceded to, and by abandoning you then tried to move the goal posts to claim "well it doesn't really pay off." You're a loser and a moron.
The whole point of shooting a fucking gun is to hit what you're aiming at. If I can hit what I'm aiming more consistently and exactly than with another gun, that means it's more fucking accurate, dumbass.
I guarantee you never fired a gun in your life, you miserable piece of shit. You dick off on gook boards for a living.
2ba736 No.548493
>>548337
>most people fuck up their ar builds
How? I literally just built a gun around a 20" Ballistic Advantage barrel (awesome barrel btw) and I'm getting the expected 2 moa at 100 yards.
Building AR's is insanely easy these days because of how refined the platform has become. Everybody knows it, so all the parts are now within the 1000's of a inch with one another. You literally just buy the shit and put it together like a lego kit, and if you didn't go cheap fuck on the parts, you'll be good to go.
>>548216
>0.75 MOA on a $500 dollar gun
lol what fucking planet are you living on, moron? PSA is good if you have absolutely nothing else and need something to kill niggers for when SHTF. Otherwise, you're looking at a 4-5 MOA gun because their unnamed barrels are really fucking mediocre.
4d9ba8 No.548495
I can't figure out why no one knows about the 7mm08. Former USMC Sniper here. We used the M40a3 in 7.62x51 so naturally I was looking for a .308 hunting rifle, but when I went back and started to study non nato rounds, I literally see no reason to use the .308 over the 7mm08. I hand load by the way. Savage needs to make the 10 fcp sr in 7mm 08. The shitty opinion is with anyone who disagrees. I guess I'm saying that .308 / 762x51 is a shitty meme.
2ba736 No.548496
>>548495
>all this short-action pussy shit
grow a dick and use a fucking magnum
4d9ba8 No.548497
>>548496
Unfortunately I don't have room to shoot past 1200. If I lived in Utah, I'd have a .338. I decided edc and home defense had financial priority since I have a family to feed (and arm)
1c4a32 No.548504
>>548493
>$500 gun
Didn't say that, I said midrange, which I consider to be in the $750-$900 mark. $500 is budget range, i.e. the bare minimum you can pay for an AR and not have it fall apart on you.
>PSA
Didn't say that either, see above.
550234 No.548511
>>548493
Buying shitty out of spec parts and forcing them together. Its gotten so bad that there is a mini boom in the gunsmith industry because people are willing to pay a hundred bucks to unfuck their custom homemade AR rifle.
>>548504
>$500 is budget range, i.e. the bare minimum you can pay for an AR and not have it fall apart on you.
Daily reminder the military bought a more complicated automatic version (m16) for ~$200 in the 90s.
2ba736 No.548513
>>548504
>Hue hue hue didn't say that hue hue hue didn't say that hue hue hue
Ok, stupid fuck
"Mid range" is called Kike City. It's where stupid fucks like you pay $750 for a Colt that shoots no better than a Ruger or M&P. That's why I ignored, you fuck.
2ba736 No.548515
>>548497
Who cares about long range? I love shooting animals at 10 yards and watching them explode by my 300. I can't wait to do the same to niggers tbh.
Go big friendo.
b13e03 No.548518
>>547859
>Nigger the Navy still uses PTH shit instead of SMD
if power is involved, you're going through hole. ever see a motor controller board?
1c4a32 No.548535
>>548513
>It's where stupid fucks like you pay $750 for a Colt that shoots no better than a Ruger or M&P
False nigger, colt is and always will be shit. I won't say my taste is good but it's better than that.
2ba736 No.548537
>>548535
that's a good gun, got any pics?
but yeah, if you're doing a "mid-range" build, then yes, you can get good accuracy out of that. IDK about .75 autism but 2 should be easy.
1c4a32 No.548541
>>548537
>that's a good gun, got any pics?
Afraid not.
I may have told a wee bit of a fib. I built this gun but don't own it anymore, I hit a financial rough spot and had to sell just about all that I had.
1c4a32 No.548543
>>548541
Actually, I do have a few photos.
polite sage for doublepost
435fb9 No.548577
>>548515
>Go big friendo.
Is that a 'muh stoppin power' comment, there, friendo?