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There's no discharge in the war!

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8d79c8 No.536261

>America and majority of NATO been openly supplying moderate terrorists for years

>Taliban like Russians guns = Putin supplying them

When and how did NATO become a joke? Will NATO collapse because of the EU army?

8d79c8 No.536262

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Also I love how people are blaming trump for Afghanistan now. Even though it was Obama that surrendered Afghanistan after U.S and nato forces winning it for 7 years.


8d79c8 No.536263

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a47e4d No.536278

nato without america has always been a joke because every country except america is just swimming in our wake.


a14ac8 No.536280

>>536261

>When and how did NATO become a joke?

Shortly after about the 25th of December, 1991.

>Will NATO collapse because of the EU army?

Fucking kek m8. The EU Army will look very well drilled and dressed at a few parades every year, and will occasionally do disaster relief work when they can be torn away from important photo-ops.


6316f0 No.536281

>>536261

>Will NATO collapse because of the EU army?

Who will staff it?

New-Europeans™ with disproportionate melanin content and worrying lack of genetics suited for surviving cold?

demoralized libcucks?

Or maybe people from countries that still have beef with each other?


2da53b No.536284

>>536278

> every country except america is just swimming in our wake

Lol no. Up until recently Germany, Great Britain and France were all major military players. They had armies for the defense of their home-land. Their armies were never set up for the kind of offensive irregular warfare we see in places such as Mali, Afghanistan and Iraq nowadays. After the cold war "ended" near in the 90s a lot of European nations and especially large parts of the populations became more and more pacifist. They believed that world peace was just around the corner.

Then all of a sudden 9/11 happened. Iraq happened, Afghanistan happened. Nobody had any clue how to react to asymmetrical warfare. The US simply had the resources to experiment the most, to immediately react and come up with their own military solutions to these new military problems, while the European nations didn't have those options due to lack of funding and support. The Americans got all the support they wanted, mainly because 9/11 was an attack on their home turf. Now the other nations just follow what the US does, because they don't have the resources to experiment, and need solutions that are proven to work.


32eecc No.536287

>When and how did NATO become a joke

As soon as the US became world police.

As for the "how" just look up the retarded shit that's happened in yurup and burgerland since WW2 and then you'll realize the inmates are running the asylum.


fc8c63 No.536307

>>536284

>No on can into asymmetric warfare

Nigger that's exactly what we've been dealing with since the 60s. The only difference is it's in mostly mountainous and semi-arid desert terrain instead of jungle.


2da53b No.536317

>>536307

>No on can into asymmetric warfare

That's not what I said. I said that Germany, Great Britain and France had armies set up for a different prupose.The US (and France to some extent) did have some experience with asymmetrical warfare, but the insurgent tactics evolved as well as the US.

You have to remember that the Afghans have been fighting regular armies on their home turf for half a century now. They know their shit. Especially the Pakistani leaders have been doing this shit longer than the soviets invaded.

On the other side you see the US with a few measly years of very bad experiences in Vietnam, extreme political pressure not to harm civillians and not to bring home any body bags. Nobody knew how to properly deal with insugencies that well organized, and the problem was solved in a very brute force way. Invade, take major cities by force in blitz attacks, expand and build outposts in even the most remote regions. Something like 20 NATO soldiers for every insurgent was required to push the Taliban back to a level where they wrote that infamous letter, essentially capitulating under the condition that they would take part in a new government.

And we all know how that turned out.

As soon as the troops were withdrawn the goatfuckers came out of ther caves and out of Pakistan to start shit again. If you want to solve this problem you need to escalate the conflict by two stages: abolish the local military completely. Setting up a new state would be less effort at this point that using that corrupt piece of shit the Afghans got at this point.

Second stage would be invasion of Pakistan to do the same over there. Fuck their governmet over.

The whole "let's freedom your country" was a good idea, but only if you go through with it all the way.


d074b3 No.536319

>>536261

> EU army?

This is not a thing.


2da53b No.536321

>>536319

Yet.

http://archive.is/NS3si

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union

I agree though that it would be mostly a photo op thing. When push comes to shove the individual nations may cooperate, but nothing like integrated Battalions, or even Divisions would work.


f3bf07 No.536323

File: a56ee80f39ddcbf⋯.png (292.23 KB, 500x373, 500:373, ClipboardImage.png)

Proposed: NATO should be dissolved.

I'll admit my bias up front: NATO's purpose was to contain the communists. Since Western Europe is probably more communist than Eastern Europe now, I don't see the point.

Arguments for:

> Some countries have used the existence of NATO to neglect their national defense

This isn't a crazy position to take. Why spend money on tanks and planes when the Americans will blow your entire GDP on an ill conceived experimental weapons system that never even gets deployed? Since NATO means the burgers have to save your ass if you're invaded why wouldn't you just spend on social projects that get you votes?

> The mutual defense guarantee isn't real

Estonians seem pretty chill. I'd probably rather have a beer with the average Estonian than the average San Franciscan. But it's laughable to suggest the United States is going to fight the entire Russian army and risk a nuclear war for Estonian sovereignty. Burgerland doesn't even have the political will to lose 5,000 troops to put down a bunch of goat fucker light infantry and technicals. The mutual defense guarantee is a joke and everybody knows it. But western politicians will still act like it's a real thing and threaten Russia with it. NATO is encouraging their mouths to write some pretty big checks that we have no way of cashing. That's how wars start.

> NATO needlessly unsettles the Russians

The Russians complain constantly that NATO is trying to "encircle" them. Probably because that was exactly the point of NATO in the Cold War. Today, trying to counter this is a major goal in Russian foreign policy and the this dynamic is a dangerous potential flash point. I normally don't care about countries' excuses for the shit they do (Yankees embargo grorious Nippon, have no choice but bomb harbor!), but why antagonize Russia when the United States gets literally nothing out of it? For God's sake, it's gotten to the point where we're supporting Al fucking Nusra apparently for no other reason than muh barrel bombs and because Trump can't be too nice to Vlad or it's proof of collusion.


5c19d1 No.536350

They're Paki guns. Taliban are an ISI operation, they organized a bunch of student (religious/imam studies) groups to try and annex Afghanistan.

Propaganda

>buh but stingers cant work, battery failed!

>therefore ignore dozens of crashed apaches with unrecorded causes

>it's all mechanical fault and pilot error!

Reality

>Pakistan makes a Stinger copy and ships it to the Taliban.


d074b3 No.536353

>>536321

Mate every state in the EU (and beyond) agreed that having Mali becoming Afghanistan 2.0 as the new Al Qaeda and cie safe heaven right next to Europe was a direct and real threat to EVERY EU countries national security.

France only asked for logistical support (no combat troops).

Brazil and Canada are the ones that contributed the most, then UK, of the non-french logistic (confirming what we all know: UK is the only reliable ally France has ever had, they sent ALL the available planes they had and they came with airborne engineers + security detachments in case there was need to use them for something else than parking on an international airport).

Russia actually did most of it (but they send the bills… like the USAF. I think the Obama admin ultimately said they would cover it but I'm not 100% sure, I am 100% sure however that the USAF did present the bill to the french government).

Everyone else sent a couple of planes once with journalists to take pictures.

For some fucking much needed OMLT for the Malian army in fucking Bamako 1000km away from the nearest firefight, I saw the french foreign minister beg for EU soldier, without the s, as in ONE BY ONE, to put a OMLT EU mission of not even 30 guys…

Italy took over some french peacekeeping duties in Lebanon and ex-Yugoslavia (freeing a few thousands men) and that's it.

Even when push come to shove "EU military" isn't a thing.


8d79c8 No.536620

>>536353

>Even when push come to shove "EU military" isn't a thing.

Better question. How long until the EU fucks up the Eu army?


d074b3 No.536621

>>536620

It's already done.

No latter than last night the french parliament ultra pro-EU voted to cut all the previously voted but still pending procurements (shit on order but not payed or delivered yet) so roughly 50 € Billions (about 35 just in new gear).

That's nearly two full years of already committed to suppliers military budget!

The French army, the last of the EU serious force, is dead, we even have the precise time of death.


eea175 No.536623

>>536350

Where's the proofs?


0730cd No.536624

>muh stronk russians

http://militera.lib.ru/research/suvorov12/07.html

amerifats and allies have always over estimated the drunken fags.


695380 No.536633

>>536350

>Stinger copy.

lol no. This is Thomas Wictor red team larper tier garbage. Go read Steve Coll's Ghost Wars or Richard Clarke's Against All Enemies. Both books have sources that the stingers were American made, and that the British SAS gave training to the Taleban in their use.


38c507 No.536635

>>536284

nothing in your post suggests they arent swimming in our wake, you gigantic autist.


a59074 No.536636

>>536261

>implying this is a recent trend

>what is the Vietnamese War

The US have been doing this for longer than you will ever know since they train people to fight their enemies and never think that they'd fight them with what they've learned.

Hell, they released Ho Chi Mihn from jail so he could lead the fight against the Japanese.

The US has, and always will, cause its own problems.

>>536284

>Afghanistan happened. Nobody had any clue how to react to asymmetrical warfare.

This is where you're wrong.

The Brits and the French have decades of experience under their belt.

The problem with Afghanistan was that the US was in charge of it and decided to fight it as a conventional war, even though the CIA and JSOC SMUs dealt with most of what was going on. Another reason for Afghanistan going the way it did was Pakistan as >>536350 pointed out

Though there weren't any stinger copies sent to my knowledge.

>>536278

>because every country except america is just swimming in our wake.

Which is a bad thing for Europe, now Europe only has a force that's there to hold Russia off for a few hours while the US shows up and saves the day, rather than a force that can push Russia back to its borders.

Not to mention the US getting involved in the Suez talks heavily weakened the UK's and France's means of maintaining order in their territories, causing the Vietnam war to become as much of a clusterfuck as it was since the only thing that was keeping the North from invading the South was just the US, who didn't care about Vietnam as much as they did Korea.

Oh and then the US was surprised that the UK's carriers couldn't get there in time to help out when Russia sent a nuclear cruiser in the Indian Ocean to keep them from getting involved in the Indo-Pakistan war.

The reason the US did this? So that they can be the only superpower in the world maybe but it really removed Europe's influence from the world stage. Germany however was never relevant and will never be so I don't know why they will always keep trying to be relevant


5c19d1 No.536644

>>536633

Dude even if you don't believe that Pakistan had Stingers in storage, which they were maintaining with American aid. Do you seriously think a few batteries couldn't have made it over the border which was so leaky Al Qaeda #1 had a fucking mansion right next to Pakistans military academy? Especially after they gave the stinger to China, North Korea, and to Islamic terrorists in India? Don't think they'd give it to a group in Afghanistan that they created and regularly supplied/protected?

Come on now. There's naive, and then there's just stupid.


a93500 No.536646

File: 36b907ab10c9100⋯.jpg (71.5 KB, 471x664, 471:664, Mikhail_Fradkov,_2014.jpg)

>hurrr Russians aren't supplying anti-American forces, their Russian rifles are just 1488D chess!!!!

*blocks ur path*


5c19d1 No.536649

>>536646

>can't tell the difference between a russian, yugo, or chink kalash

>wants to tell others what to think

Aside from obvious suspects and not really American enemies, mostly Jewish like the Iranians, Syrians, and Serbs - the only real American enemies the Russians supplied are the Black Lives Matter movement. They gave them a few 100k or so in funds, but honestly Soros funds the BLM to the tune of tens of millions anyway.

They're just NOW beginning to reach out to the bolivaran alliance, ALBA and 50 year old FARC guerrillas who still remember their KGB instructors. We even ran them out of Venezuela, although they likely left when it became obvious the entire country is an empty shell.

Russians don't supply Taliban or Al Qaeda since these movements work with Dagestani militias, that would be dumb. Also can you imagine a Russian trying to make contact with the fucking Taliban and not ending up with his arms and legs cut off and cauterized, mailed to the Russian embassy in Iran in a fucking box?


5c19d1 No.536651

>>536649

Sorry that would be CARF now, they renamed themselves. Point is none of the Russian involvement in north or south America involved guns, it's mostly training, media and political support, and money to buy votes with. See the russkis learned a thing or two from RFE collapsing all of USSR, such things as that sometimes a pen is mightier than an AK or a nuke.


000000 No.536692

The Taliban are not a single entity. There may be a central Quetta Shurah but the majority of "Talibans" are local warlords who find the Taliban cause, power, weapons etc most advantageous at that time. Certain points:

1. The leader of Tribe A through bribery, nepotism etc becomes the local administrator. Tribe B who has a blood feud with Tribe A will have none of this So they try their best to undermine A's authority and will gladly accept Taliban assistance saying A are un-Islamic traitors, American dogs etc. A will in turn will quickly label B as Taliban to get more US/Central gov money and forces to squash their old enemies and to justify their attacks with bonus cred points. This quest for revenge is also the reason that the family of most if not all Afghans killed by American forces (who will gladly pocket the blood money) will gladly kill Americans.

2. The normal Afghan takes their brand of Islam (sodomy, selling drugs is Ok homosexuality, women going without burqa, men with head uncovered, anything labelled Jewish is not Ok etc) quite seriously, at least in public (it being a tribal society the two measures of social standing being honor, basically conformation to tradition, and money). That is why recent measures such as dropping of leaflets perceived to be anti-Islamic and acceptance of Jerusalem as Israeli capital have helped the Taliban cause with even members of the former US ally Northern Alliance joining the Taliban.

3. To the local players Pakistan, Iran, Russia and China US is only a temporary (and disruptive) factor in the region who will have to leave one day so their concern will always be an Afghanistan without US forces. For them the Taliban are a known and relatively more reliable quantity (willing to accept their demands for legitimacy, aid, trade etc) also the one most surely to be the dominant force. This aligns with the interests of the local players (Pakistan-trade, acceptance of Durand Line, curtailing drug smuggling, loss of safe haven for anti-Pakistani elements like Balochs and TTP, etc. China-trade/mining rights, loss of safe havens for Uighurs (and BLA who are threat to CPEC), no future prospect of US being in their backyard, loss of Indian influence in Afghanistan etc). To the Americans pre-invasion Afghanistan was a stone age failed state but to it's neighbors it was calm and ready to do business.

3. Like Pakistan and China Russia is happy with a Islamist Taliban Afghanistan as long as they keep their shit to themselves, reduce drug smuggling etc Although there has been no credible evidence as yet Russia supplying weapons to Taliban makes a lot of sense. Not only it helps to undermine USA (another step in their objective of transition to a multipolar world) but recently acts as a counter to the rise of ISIS which according to them (and according to Hamid Karzai) is being supported by USA. The notion that Taliban and Russia will not talk to each other is wrong as Russia has a history of paying off local warlords and the Afghans are opportunistic as ever.

4. Pakistan most certainly did give Stingers to China for studying but never to Indian terrorists. During the Kargil War they were used by Pakistani irregulars/volunteers read "little green men". No heavy weaponry has ever been supplied to Kashmiris because they are considered unreliable and have inferior fighting qualities as per Pakistan Army's belief in the British martial races theory and experience during operation Gibralator.

Pakistan does not make a copy of Stinger. Their MANPAD Anza is based on HN-5 which is a reverse engineered SA-7. Although the seeker could be based on Stinger's and sourced from China because AFAIK Pakistan cannot produce IR seekers.

5. Regarding unaccounted for helicopter losses:

- The hot and high conditions of Afghanistan are the bane of all helicopters. Helicopter flying in mountain requires years of specialist training and even then sudden local changes can lead to accidents. Helicopter losses of India and Pakistan are indicative of this.

- It is quite absurd that world's most advanced and successful attack helicopter cannot counter old Stingers a system against which they would have been extensively tested. (eg. The recent inability of AIM-9X to shoot down Syrian Su-22 was attributed to the seeker being tested against US flares). Also if there had been such heavy losses India would not have selected the Apache as it would have known about them through its intelligence sources in Afghanistan.

- Russians downplay the effectiveness of Stinger during the Soviet invasion (could be loser's talk). They say after the initial shock Stingers were countered by DIRCM and improved tactics.


f91757 No.536705

File: c43ab3bec3caa07⋯.jpg (38.4 KB, 450x450, 1:1, cheetahlaugh.jpg)

File: 649006f2f60de66⋯.jpg (52.93 KB, 392x409, 392:409, notppl.jpg)

>>536262

>Even though it was Obama that surrendered Afghanistan after U.S and nato forces winning it for 7 years.

>after U.S and nato forces winning it for 7 years.

Wat?

You call sitting in enemy territory for seven years a win? You do not know what the word "win" means, ami.


83f5d8 No.536719

>>536262

>after U.S and nato forces winning it for 7 years.

What the fuck have you been smoking? Whatever the fuck it was you should stop.


6316f0 No.536722

>>536705

>>536719

There can't be winners or losers when it isn't a war but a "peacekeeping operation" or a "stabilization mission"

When you win you get

>loot

>medals

>spoils

>PoW's to sell back

When you lose you get

>lined up and shot for failing

Neither happened.


83f5d8 No.536723

>>536722

It's not even peacekeeping operation, isn't it officially suppose to be some sort of "reconstruction"-mission according to the politicians that started that whole stupid fucking thing.

>hrrrr we're not going to need to fire a shot in Afghanistan t: some brit politician


4ff4b2 No.538655

>Stupid Americans refuse to admit they can't win a war and only point fingers.

Blame Obama, Blame Russia, Blame whoever. The mistake was invading Afghanistan in the first place, now America is full of Afghani heroin and 17 years later there is still no real victory in sight.

Trump can't win either, hes a puppet to the banks that want to war and the heroin to keep flowing.


20f8ab No.538704

File: 6414eef9e6780fd⋯.jpg (56.06 KB, 437x424, 437:424, C_laa0ZUIAAAgIH.jpg)

>>536261

>EU army

>implying that's not just a retarded meme that'd never happen because (((NATO))) is a protection racket

smh senpai

also

>moderate terrorists

>terrorists

>moderate

pick one

>>538655

>The mistake was invading Afghanistan in the first place

not only that, the biggest mistake was supplying and training >le moderate rebels that where supposed to overthrow the crumbling communist government back when the soviets couldn't give a rat's ass about "invading" that shithole.


0c4b99 No.538721

>>536705

fuck off cheetah kike


3fcc5c No.538757

>>536261

>EU army

>less of a joke than NATO


3fcc5c No.538758

>>536284

> After the cold war "ended" near in the 90s a lot of European nations and especially large parts of the populations became more and more pacifist. They believed that world peace was just around the corner.

Neighbouring kebabs can be a blessing after all…




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