/k/ - Weapons

>>475472

I know that Knights Armament Co. is there, Spikes Tactical as well, LelTec, Serbu, and SCCY.

There's a shit ton of arguments for why th NFA is just wrong, including:

How Miller VS. United States was tried (Miller was dead, and there was no one representing him, only a rep for the federal government)

The interstate commerce argument is batshit and basically says the federal government can trample any of your constitutional rights as long as they could tangentially link it in any way to being a valueable item.

There's other parts of this, but that's the short version

>>475475

Had Knight's, Spike's and Serbu, will add KelTec and SCCY to the list.

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/local/2016/08/20/florida-small-gun-manufacturers-a-growing-force/89001454/

http://www.armsdealer.net/businesses/category/gun-manufacturers/florida?p=1

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2013/03/26/nr-draft-how-important-are-guns-to-the-u-s-economy-for-starters-the-firearms-industry-employs-twice-as-many-americans-as-bailed-out-gm/

Certainly not the best sources but hopefully a start. I'm on my phone so research doesn't come to easily.

>>475477

Looks like Diamondback also mfg's in your state, and Taurus appears to have an office/shop/workshop there, and a bunch of small companies like Trident Arms.

>>475478

>>475481

Thanks

https://archive.is/9LKYj

https://archive.is/uCZcb

Here is what I have so far.

(Plan to start with explaining how deeply involved Florida is in the firearm industry and give him a long list of companies.)

Actual arguments so far:

The NFA is very confusing. When we first met I gave you an image showing what modifications to a legal pistol made it illegal. That image was just the tip of the iceberg. A survival rifle with a barrel for 22 and one for 410 bore has to follow different rules from those covering rifles and shotguns.

The gun control lobby has always made it their number one tactic to convince the public into believing that every firearm is a machine gun. Terms such as “assault weapon”, “military style weapon” and “high power weaponry” were all designed to fool people into thinking they were machine guns. If they are going to call all firearms machine guns either way, it would be preferable to myself and other gun owners to actually be able to own machine guns.

This massive ambiguity of the NFA gives nearly unlimited power to the ATF, a organization corrupt to its core with unelected bureaucrats. Fast and Furious is hardly the only circus the ATF has created in recent history and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel exposed many of them. The ATF regularly ran fake pawn shops that bought stolen goods no questions asked for crazy prices. These led to a huge upsurge in crime as criminals were breaking into police cars to steal shotguns purely to fence to this pawn shop. The ATF also used these “stores” to provide teenagers with marijuana. The primary arrests of these stings were the unknowing people the ATF hired to advertise and work for their fake stores, not criminals. Only loss of power, not removing replaceable cogs or fining taxpayers, will punish them.

“NFA Items” are legal in many other, more restrictive, countries. In Canada short barreled shotguns and short barreled rifles (by American standards) can be shipped to your door. In New Zealand new fully-automatic firearms can be owned with just a shall issue collector's permit. It is insane that the US would have some of the most restrictive laws in the world.

Despite Hollywood’s love of the Thompson in gangster films, few criminals use or used automatic weapons. Criminals overwhelmingly prefer concealable pistols, as FBI statistics will show. Those that did use “machine guns” stole their weapons from the government, to whom the NFA does not apply. Clyde Barrow, one of the few criminals to actually use a “machine gun” before the NFA, stole his BARs from the government. The Thompson was a huge failure and 10 years after the Thompson's introduction there were barely 10,000 in the world and Auto-Ordinance was deep in debt.

Several weapons fall into NFA categories from damage or malfunction. With sufficient use, any barrel will eventually become “smoothbore”. A lower quality SKS (a 50 State legal firearm and one of the most popular firearms in Canada) may “slamfire” and fire multiple rounds if dirty or damaged. This makes for a very unreliable and unsafe (for the user) firearm. This malfunction is not the owner's fault, but they could still face 10 years in jail if the ATF feel vindictive (which they often do).

The ability to change configuration rapidly, putting a previously legal firearm into a prohibited position, is not a new invention and was around when the NFA was written. Many of the pistols of that era could be fitted with a removable shoulder stock that would turn them into an illegal “Short Barreled Rifle” and back to their original pistol without the use of tools.

Miller was a very crooked case from start to finish. Miller was denied the ability to choose his plea and his choice of attorney. Heartsill Ragon helped write the NFA but did not recuse himself. Miller's Ragon appointed attorney abandoned Miller after “winning” his case. Miller was on the run from men he wanted to be safely away from in jail before the end of the trial, and the case was decided with no defense or defendant. Many of the judges who decided this would side with the state in Korematsu v. US, and we can safely ignore the opinion of any individual who claims the 13th amendment does not prohibit indefinate inprisonment based for no crime with no trial.

>>475482

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Miller#Background

This should be a better part of the legal aspects of the arguement:

(these are responses to each of the aspects of the ruling)

1) Same concept as a poll tax, illegal for the same reasons, but, since poll taxes/literacy tests were still legal at the time, this was seen as acceptable AT THE TIME.

2) Transportation of an item does not explicitly make it a participant in commerce. This would e the same as saying that a book being owned and read by one individual brought across state lines was regulated as part of interstate commerce simply by traversing state lines. The fact that an item crosses state lines with no intention of sale (especially something constitutionally protect, such as our example book) does not give the federal government or congress the authority to regulate such an item. It would be the same as congress being able to legislate what may be privately published or possessed in a book on the grounds of interstate commerce even if the books were never even sold outside of one state or transferred to an individual from another state. Travel does not equate to commerce.

3) The second amendment does NOT only protect firearms acceptable to a militia. The second amendment protects any and all small arms at a minimum. The militia clause is a prefatory clause that describes why people have the right, not WHO has the right, to keep and bear arms. Just as how states have banned weapons for being "too military like" and only allowing "civilian" weapons, this reading is intended to inhibit the usage of practical small arms for self defense and hunting, likely because the law was intended in part to help prevent out of season poaching involving the use of sound suppressors, because of the extreme poverty present at the time of the great depression.

4)I can't directly argue that the shotgun in question was never used in a milita organization, but shortened and sawn down shotguns as a whole have explicitly seen more and more "militia" and police use since the time this law was passed, in the following roles:

>trench clearing

>CQB, especially in urban environments

>door breaching

>specialist roles

All of these are completely valid "militia" uses that have become exceptionally more relevant in the theater of modern combat.

Further!

1) The amount charged by the act was intended to be cost prohibitive, as $200 in 1934 dollars is approximately, $3000~ USD in modern currency. This equated to as much as a 50% tax on the submachineguns of the day and as much as 300% to 1000% the price of a suppressor (as cheap as $20) or a shotgun (~$50 for a high quality pump action, and less than $5 for a hacksaw or other cutting implement). This tax was intended as a classist measure to keep these "dangerous weapons" out of the hands of the poor.

2)The original NFA was enacted before the concept of "prohibited possessor" or background checks was even established. The NICS check should have superseded the requirements for NFA background checks, but the tax and extra checks were kept in place due to fear mongering.

3) Federal law alternates between the previously mentioned "militia use" standard and a "sporting purpose" standard, which has been used to arbitrarily ban the import of so called "assault weapons" and in 1968, foreign made machineguns, precisely BECAUSE they met the standard of being an effective militia weapon. These kinds of absurd catch 22 standards are unfair and on their face appear designed to infringe on our second amendment rights.

4)The NFA and GCA of 1968 essentially give the ATF (a part of the executive branch) the ability to write new laws as they see fit, by "re-interpreting" existing statue. This has led to the ATF declaring something legal, changing its mind, and then changing a previously legal item to an illegal status on a whim. This is a completely unfair process, as anyone who bought a Sig Brace when they were legal to shoulder can tell you.

5) aside from the extremely questionable (to put it mildly) legal basis for this act, it effectively does nothing to reduce crime or violence. the majority of the banned or controlled items can be made using basic tools with minimal training out of completely unrestricted parts and items, and criminals either avoid the usage of these items entirely due to much heavier penalties associated with their use in a crime of violence (not their possession). There is virtually no crime associated with any of the legally possessed items restricted or banned, and there wasn't BEFORE they were banned or restricted either. The law is purely designed to hamper the exercise of a civil right as a "feel good" measure about criminal violence, the vast majority of which is actually committed with cheap small caliber handguns, not machineguns costing upwards of a thousand dollars or 20mm rifles requiring a $2000 scope to maintain accuracy.

>>475487

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Miller#Background

Also see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich

For why this commerce clause thing has gotten WAY out of hand.

>>475485

The NFA inflates the cost of equipment for the military. NFA banned items that differ substantially from non-NFA items are negatively impacted by lacking economy of scale, lack competitive bidding and can't be surplussed.

>>475490

shit, wrong cite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#The_market_for_NFA_items

First off you're not a lawyer and he's not a judge so I don't know why you would want to argue about Miller. Just focus on the fact that the AOW/SBS/SBR scheme doesn't actually protect anyone from anything and is totally pointless.

Why burden everyone with all these restrictions on short barreled shotguns when something like the mossberg shockwave does the same thing? Why does anyone care if I have a 10" barrel on my rifle anyway?

>He was trying to find some time to schedule me to talk one on one with the congressman in mid-April.

Not bad

>>475482

Now that I'm done being a lawyer/autist, I recall that Ballistic Advantage (http://ballisticadvantage.com/contacts) also is based in Florida.

I did more digging, and you guys are also homebase for Rossi/Braztech in the US and a few smaller names like Dead On Arms, Tactical Machining, and one of the manufacturing spots for the guys who made/invented/mfg the grip pod monstrosity.

http://www.heritagemfg.com/

Shit, you guys even have that company that makes all those single action cowboy shooters.

I had no fucking idea how many fucking guns come from Florida.

>>475485

>The gun control lobby has always made it their number one tactic to convince the public into believing that every firearm is a machine gun. Terms such as “assault weapon”, “military style weapon” and “high power weaponry” were all designed to fool people into thinking they were machine guns. If they are going to call all firearms machine guns either way, it would be preferable to myself and other gun owners to actually be able to own machine guns.

You need to hammer the point that the distinction between assault rifle and assault weapon doesn't exist in the mind of the average normie, and that an "assault weapon" does not have a greater capacity for killing than an equivalent semi-automatic rifle, firing the same cartridge, without a bayonet lug/pistol grip/neat looking attachments.

>In Canada short barreled shotguns and short barreled rifles (by American standards) can be shipped to your door. In New Zealand new fully-automatic firearms can be owned with just a shall issue collector's permit

Yeah, I mean, I don't care if the government wants to have huge additional criminal penalties for people who go out and commit murders with a sawed off shotgun, but that's no reason to erect barriers to private ownership in general.

>>475487

>>475487

>2) Transportation of an item does not explicitly make it a participant in commerce. This would e the same as saying that a book being owned and read by one individual brought across state lines was regulated as part of interstate commerce simply by traversing state lines. The fact that an item crosses state lines with no intention of sale (especially something constitutionally protect, such as our example book) does not give the federal government or congress the authority to regulate such an item. It would be the same as congress being able to legislate what may be privately published or possessed in a book on the grounds of interstate commerce even if the books were never even sold outside of one state or transferred to an individual from another state. Travel does not equate to commerce.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn, the (((Supreme Court))) is willing to call literally anything interstate commerce. Fucking assholes. Marbury v. Madison was a mistake, these retards don't have a Constitutionally granted right to interpet anything, they're fucking idiots.

>The second amendment does NOT only protect firearms acceptable to a militia.

Yeah, you might want to review this for that argument

http://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/common.htm

Btw, not sure how to bring this up, but legalizing high caliber machine guns that aren't man portable is probably less dangerous than legalizing LMGs/MMGs. While this would fit perfectly with the point that the Second Amendment is intended to allow individuals to arm themselves to defend against foreign armies that may invade or domestic tyrants, you can't go shoot up a school with a weapon that weighs 80+ pounds. Frankly, I'm not sure I want automatic weapons legalized so long as there are certain demographics in America. Obviously they're Constitutionally protected, but still https://www.amren.com/the-color-of-crime/

Reading about the poll tax just gave me a fantastic fucking idea. A state law requiring individuals to pass a Raven's Progressive Matrices test

-Completely unbiased culturally (no language involved whatsoever, pure pattern recognition)

-Accurate measure of intelligence

-You can test people on computers cheaply and easily (but they'll probably have to go to the DMV to do so, wew)

And set the passing average at 100. Congratulations, the Democrat party is now dead in your state until that law is taken to the Supreme Court and ruled le evil even though there's absolutely no Constitutional guarantee that stupid people should be able to vote, that's not discrimination based on height/age/race/gender/whatever it's based on "are you a fucking idiot or not."

>>475553

That's going well beyond my subject

>>475536

Thanks

>>475502

I'll rework that into the people behind the NFA know it was unconstitional when they made it (already sent him the transcripts for the NFA's inital hearings)

Any recommendations for retorts to possible claims by the congressman

All I can think of right now is him saying I'm not the only constituent. Would "You're right, there's over 750,000 other people being denied their rights right now" be a good response?

>>476212

I think I'd point out something along those lines: even if it wouldn't necessarily be "popular" in the short term with some voters, it would still be the right thing to do, and most gun owning voters would be A+ about it.

OK /k/. Here is a more revised list (list of Florida gunmakers is a separate printout because I'm going to be handing that to him)

The gun control lobby has always made it their number one tactic to convince the public into believing that every firearm is a machine gun. Terms such as “assault weapon”, “military style weapon” and “high power weaponry” were all designed to fool people into thinking they were machine guns. If they are going to call all firearms machine guns either way, it would be preferable to myself and other gun owners to actually be able to own machine guns.

Repeal of the NFA will bring jobs to Florida. As you can see from the list I gave you Florida has a lot of firearm manufactures who are burdened by the NFA's regulatory restrictions. If the NFA were repealed Florida's gun makers, large and small, would benefit from the new demand for formerly restricted firearms. Florida's small business FFLs would also benefit from being able to sell these new products.

The NFA is very confusing. When we first met I gave you an image showing what modifications to a legal pistol made it illegal. That image was just the tip of the iceberg. A survival rifle with a barrel for 22 and one for .410 bore (67-gauge) has to follow different rules from those covering rifles and shotguns. A revolver that can shoot .410 bore is still just a revolver until its rifling wears out from repeated use, at which point it becomes illegal.

This massive ambiguity of the NFA gives nearly unlimited power to the ATF, a organization corrupt to its core with unelected bureaucrats. ATF determinations of if the NFA applies are inconsistent and frequently reversed. In addition the ATF has committed many crimes against the American people, with Fast and Furious only their tip. Only loss of power, not removing replaceable cogs or fining taxpayers, will punish the ATF for their many abuses.

“NFA Items” are legal in many other, more restrictive, countries. In Canada short barreled shotguns and short barreled rifles (by American standards) can be shipped to your door. In New Zealand new fully-automatic firearms can be owned with just a shall issue collector's permit. It is insane that the US would have some of the most restrictive laws in the world.

Except for explosives, criminals have never used “NFA items” in crimes with any regularity. Despite Hollywood’s love of the Thompson in gangster films, few criminals use or used automatic weapons. Criminals overwhelmingly prefer concealable pistols, as FBI statistics will show. Those that did use “machine guns” stole their weapons from the government, to whom the NFA does not apply. Clyde Barrow, one of the few criminals to actually use a “machine gun” before the NFA, stole his BARs from the government. The Thompson was a huge failure built on a scientific principle that doesn't exist. 10 years after the Thompson introduction there were barely 10,000 in the world and Auto-Ordinance was deep in debt.

Several weapons fall into NFA categories from damage or malfunction. With sufficient use, any barrel will eventually become “smoothbore”. A lower quality SKS (a 50 State legal firearm and one of the most popular firearms in Canada) may “slam fire” and fire multiple rounds if dirty or damaged. This makes for a firearm very unreliable and unsafe for the user. This malfunction is not the owner's fault, but they could still face 10 years in jail if the ATF feel vindictive (which they often do).

>>476843

“Compromise” has gotten us nowhere. The NRA endorsed Senator Nelson's Undetectable Firearms Act in 1988 to alleviate a non-sentential fear of plastic framed firearms bypassing a metal detector, as though their slide and projectiles were non-metallic. This proved to be a massive foot in the door that emboldened the Brady campaign and led to the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. This also emboldened Senator Nelson who now wants to ban any gun with a polymer receiver (S. 533).

The ability to change configuration rapidly, putting a previously legal firearm into a prohibited position, is not a new invention and was around when the NFA was written. Many of the pistols of that era could be fitted with a removable shoulder stock that would turn them into an illegal “Short Barreled Rifle” and back to their original pistol without the use of tools. Modern innovations like the take down pins and separated receivers like those of AR15/M16/M4 family or modular components like the new M17 (SIG P230) allow even more rapid changes in configuration.

The NFA adds to the cost of new equipment for the military. Old equipment can't be surplussed to recoup cost and we must pay to have old equipment stored in a warehouse or destroyed. It stifles innovation by limiting who innovative products can be sold to, lowing research budget. It also stifles it further because the ATF approval process is long and expensive, furthered by how the ATF can and has revoked approval (Armsel Striker) so companies feel safer making derivative designs instead of original ones.

In the transcripts I sent you the people behind the NFA make it clear they knew it was unconstitutional when they made it. They openly talk about their desire to destroy American gun ownership and manufacturing. They were deliberately violating their oaths for power in an era with some of the highest levels of government corruption. The requirements for approval in the NFA were never set till the 1960s so the government could deny for any reason. They initially wanted to make the “tax” 5000 USD and even harsher taxes on manufacturers. Keep in mind that at the time Rockefeller, the richest man in the country if not the world, giving 50,000 dollars to the RNC was considered an obscenely large donation. The richest man in country the wouldn't be able to readily afford 10 guns under their original plan!

To give their oath breaking legitimacy, they cocked up US v. Miller. Miller was a very crooked case from start to finish. Miller was denied the ability to choose his plea and his choice of attorney. Heartsill Ragon helped write the NFA but did not recuse himself. Miller's Ragon appointed attorney abandoned Miller after “winning” his case. Miller was on the run from men he wanted to be safely away from in jail before the end of the trial, and the case was decided with no defense or defendant. Many of the judges who decided this would side with the state in Korematsu v. US, and we can safely ignore the opinion of any individual who claims the 13th amendment does not prohibit indefinite imprisonment based for no crime with no trial.

Nidal Hasan, the only American mass shooter who would have been trained in proper full auto use, used two handguns, an FN Five-Seven and a revolver.

The current situation in Europe is proof any criminal that wanted an automatic weapon can get one. This March the Spanish government seized 10,000 firearms plus artillery pieces from a single black market shop. Keep in mind the Spanish army proper only has 130,000 men and even with Civil Guard it only has a manpower of about 200,000. These weren't rusting World War era relics dug up from some battlefield either, at least 9000 CETME rifles were included.

New, high quality, manufacture isn't beyond criminal capability either. This (show R9 Arms machine pistol picture) was made from scratch by criminal arms makers and has shown up in the hands of European criminals by the thousands (The laser isn't stock going by other photos. It appears to have been added by its former “owner”. It's a P22 laser that can be bought for less than 80 USD.). That thousands is just the criminals who were caught with them, and Europe tends to have a very poor solve rate (UK is 29% of crimes they know occurred).

>>476844

I hope you will not allow your constituents to be drowned out by a minority amplified through a biased media. The “mainstream” media grows more and more irrelevant every day. Fox and Emerson College both found that independents trust the President over the media 2 to 1. They threw everything they had at Trump and couldn't stop him. Every pro-Second Amendment bill is met with horrific warnings of “blood in the streets” and it has never damaged future bills because it never happened. If they can't find something on you they'll make shit up whole-cloth: CNN claimed last month Hannity threatened Juan Williams with a gun and he was learning karate because he was spoiling for a fight with absolutely no basis for either claim, with Juan Williams himself denying it.

You can't make the assertion people support the NFA without data. Do you have a poll or some other evidence that people actually oppose repeal?

In 1994 support of an “Assault Weapons Ban” cost Democrats the legislative branch. In 2008 we tried McCain, who had spoken openly of his desire to impose financial requirements on the Second Amendment and to this day would rather see firearms destroyed than owned by the people. In 2012 we tried Romney, who supported bans on so called “assault weapons”. Not even half of Democrats care for gun control, even when including weak support (Gallup 196658). The American people do not support so called “moderate” gun control. How many times must we lose before we accept it?

In February you spoke of how people in Congress resisted change because “This is how Washington always worked” and expressed the need to act against it. The most effective way to stop it from passing is to stop it from being introduced. It is much easier for a bill to gain support when it has been introduced than when it is hypothetical. Theodore Roosevelt said that “It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed”.

With little fanfare an amendment can be added to the budget “modernizing” the tax stamp collection process into a register tax after a standard 4473. If you try telling the average mainstream media viewer about how the evil Republicans want modernize something about stamp from the 1930s they'll fall asleep because it's boring. They just want to hear about the celebrity marriages and their divorces three months latter.

Repeal of the NFA is ultimately the morally right thing to do. The right to keep and bare arms is a naturally endowed human right secured by a Constitution you have sworn to God, multiple times, you would protect and defend.

This list needs some sorting and overall polishing.

>>476843

Probably give a list of each restriction and how much money is lost having to comply with it.

>>476844

>(SIG P230)

P320*

Good luck Strelok!

Realized I didn't mention it, but stuff in parentheses is notes for myself, not stuff I say out loud without prompting (stuff I might be asked to explain further or give examples of).

I've added some more stuff since posting (mostly editing), here's the one entirely new bit.

The penalties for violating the NFA are massive compared to actual crimes. Violating the NFA is 10 years. In Florida manslaughter is 9 and quarter years. Child abuse and Battery on a Law Enforcement Officer are both “only” 5 years. Possession of a firearm by a felon is 3 years (with an optional 15 years imprisonment or probation at judge discretion): a law abiding citizen with the wrong gun is worse than criminals with guns!

>>477526

>Probably give a list of each restriction and how much money is lost having to comply with it.

No idea and I doubt it would be possible to calculate this… Actually when this guy was running for senate one of the candidates to replace him was a manufacturer and I asked him (and all the other candidates) about repealing the NFA. Pretty sure he mentions something about that in his response (he ran to repeal these laws but couldn't afford to keep up a campaign)… and he does. In it he says he has to pay a yearly 1000 USD "Special occupation tax" per location and a yearly $2800 ITARS registration, plus FFL costs. That's a good start. Doesn't tell me the costs of regulation though. Should add his business to the list of makers in Florida

Will correct the P320 bit.

>>477800

Checked, Jusick was Tactical Machining, which I already have listed

>>475472

we kill many nigger

I dont know if you have covered it already but Title II shit is retarded and needs to be repealed artificially inflating the cost of an m16 full auto lower because there can only ever be x amount is stupid and anti-american because competition.

>>477804

Getting him to introduce repeal of just the Hughes amendment is a backup plan I hopefully don't need to use.

Can this be the general purpose /k/ activism and advocacy thread?

A law just went into effect in Ohio lifting a statewide ban on campus carry, instead leaving it up to the individual institutions to allow or deny.

And to the surprise of absolutely no one Ohio universities decided unanimously to ban concealed carry on their campuses.

The question I'm asking is: What can be done about it?

>>477985

Start by finding your state legislators and nag them to do something about it. The cool thing about state legislators is they have to actually live in their district, and state legislatures aren't in session most of the year. Find them and bug them in person.

>>477800

Forgot to mention there, but I just sent him another letter asking if he had any ideas and (more importantly) if he could elaborate on the full cost of NFA compliance (testimony from a business owner in the district should help).

Calling district director's office. Unfortunately hasn't been in the office all week, only "in the field".

Just realized I never made a list of what the bill needs to have. Does this sound a good list of bullet points (remember you negotiate downward, so I don't expect to get everything here)?

>Treat short barreled rifles, machine guns and large bore destructive devices as normal long arms and “short barreled shotguns” and “any other weapon” as handguns

(The part about treating those as handguns is for state laws about loading guns in cars only allowing handguns. Feel free to critique me on that)

>Destroy the “National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.” and other government records of formerly restricted items

Eliminate the “special occupational tax”

>Specify that less-lethal agents like CS gas are not “poison gas”

(Did they expose people to CS gas in Navy basic around ~2004? I know some branches do it, but don't know the timeframe for this. Would be helpful to know if the Congressman has been exposed)

>Eliminate restrictions on making firearms

>Allow explosives to be registered in lots with a single stamp, as the Assistant Director of the ATF has advocated in the leaked white paper. Fixes the issue of what is an single unit of explosive and simplifies paperwork for collectors.

(first thing to go in negotiating)

>Condemn the actions of the judicial system and US government in US v. Miller.

>>481728

>Eliminate the “special occupational tax”

>Eliminate restrictions on making firearms

Bring up the point that such restrictions and requirements only harms small businesses and startups. I'm sure you can find specific examples if you look into it. Just off the top of my head: ITAR registration requirement for gunsmiths.

>Just off the top of my head, get rid of ITAR registration requirements for gunsmiths

Why make SBSs handguns and not also SBRs? It should be both or neither.

>Bring up the point that such restrictions and requirements only harms small businesses and startups. I'm sure you can find specific examples if you look into it. Just off the top of my head: ITAR registration requirement for gunsmiths.

ITAR registration was created by Ford's Arms Export Control Act. Then again there's no reason the bill couldn't do that. Added.

Already have it hurting small businesses in my main document. As for specific examples, I've already sent a letter to the head of a local manufacturer I contacted before asking him for some. Unfortunately I haven't heard back from him yet after a few weeks.

>Why make SBSs handguns and not also SBRs? It should be both or neither.

So 18 year olds can purchase an M4 and join a well regulated militias to secure a free state without waiting 3 years. Also giving companies a reason to keep making 16 inch barrels as the "standard" is counter intuitive. (The Brady Bill+GCA is another fight I'm going to leave till NFA repeal actually passes, let alone get introduced). Meanwhile sawed off shotguns were marketed for car defense pre-NFA (Ithaca Auto-Burglar).

Also calling a sawed off shotgun or MP5K a "pistol" is a lot easier for my autistic brain to handle then calling an M4, P90 or AKS-74U a "pistol".

Meeting is set for May 8th.

>>482038

why do people think brady/GCA repeal is harder than NFA? Both Brady and GCA are much more recent, affect more people, and have an easy case to make: that they are nuisance regulationa and that the background checks don't work anyway.

>>482376

I don't. I just have made the NFA my priority and asking for the Brady/GCA at the same time is a little much to ask. Also Brady/GCA has court cases that make it pretty high while nobody is attacking the NFA on the legislative side.

>>475475

CORE rifle systems is also in Florida.

I just thought of something.

Under the NFA, anything considered 'readily convertible to full auto', which is a completely arbitrary judgment under the BATFE's discretion, is restricted in the same matter as a full auto, and thus unobtainium. This includes anything that fires from an open bolt.

You have no idea how much this stifles innovation by forcing engineers to constantly tread on eggshells trying to make their guns as hard as possible to convert to full auto.

Want to make a reproduction of a historic open bolt firearm? Better be ready to spend six figures re-engineering the gun to fire from a closed bolt.

Want to do something new and exciting with trigger mechanisms? Say, having an electrically actuated striker, divorcing the trigger from the firing mechanism and allowing you to arbitrarily set the trigger weight, pull, reset, et al? Too bad, BATFE considers that a machine gun.

God help you if the ATF decides they want to arbitrarily fuck you over. That gun that you've been producing for years and have already sold thousands of units? BATFE says it's a machine gun now. Doesn't matter that they gave it the all clear when you started production. Better be ready to recall and account for 'every single unit or get v&.

You get the point.

Oh, I don't seem to have mentioned it yet, but my congressman is Ron Desantis (Fl-6). Anyone else district (preferably his Palm Coast office) should call and say they want NFA repeal.

>>482989

I've already covered this in a new section I've added since.

Here's a pastebin (because Ghostbin has ass formatting) of my newest version

https://pastebin.com/FL6btaVD

Parentheses are notes for myself if I'm asked to expand on something.

One of the things my congressman regularly brings up at town halls is the unelected bureaucracy that makes laws without congress. That's why I refer to it the ATF being one much as I do.

>>482376

Think it stems more from a mindset of wanting to remove all of the wallpaper at once rather than multiple layers of it over time

Somewhat related, Trump's soliciting opinions on what departments should be reformed or eliminated and the ATF's on the list.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/reorganizing-the-executive-branch

>>483058

WHY ISNT THIS STICKIED????

>>483058

>select as many as applicable

>can only select one or adjacent things

>>483070

I guess I should have made a new thread.

>>483094

Ctrl+click.

>>483100

Thanks.

Does anyone see the NSA on the list?

>>483106

That whole wiretapping thing, they were just digging their own grave

that and the retarded russia file which turned out to be some /pol/ anon's fanfic

If you're going to sticky my thread for something, can you at least point to my newest version of prepared notes too ( >>483033 ) ?

Oh and don't forget to say abolish the department of education too.

>>483033

*anyone else in the district should call (preferablly his Palm Coast office)

>>483058

wrote an essay on why the atf should be remove, anyone is welcome to use it to write in, if they want atf gone but dont want to write some shit out. its a slam-bang job, but its as much effort as i cared to put into this and definately does need improvement, but its better than nothing. i think i covered most of the ridiculous ATF shennanigans.

The ATF is redudnant, has too much power, and there is nothing that the ATF does that could not be done, and done better, by the FBI. My case for why the duties that are performed by the ATF should be absorbed into the FBI are simply that the ATF is bad at doing its job, which i will describe in detail. In addition, i believe that defining the laws as set forth in the NFA,GCA and FOPA should not be delegated to an executive branch, as this has led to what is and is not legal being chosen seemingly at random, and is quite frankly not fairly enforceable in its current state, and the US Attorney general should put out a letter encouraging attorney generals to not prosecute such cases until these laws can be defined in a way that is consistent.

The FBI already handles the firearms background checks, and is more than capable of enforcing the law.

Every single major operation conducted by the ATF that received media attention has ended in disaster, and brought about Orwellian visions of the present and future. see: Ruby Ridge, where a mother and child were shot and killed over the length of a shotgun barrel. There is also the waco siege, where people were killed over a theoretical (victimless) crime, in which the ATF required support from the FBI, which begs the question why they are even a separate branch in the first place if they are incapable of enforcing their mandate by themselves. Then there is opeation fast and furious, in which ATF agents deliberatly gave firearms to criminals, which were then used to kill americans, meaning they performed the exact opposite of their mandate, and failed to achieve the objectives the set out to achieve in performing such an action.

The ATF has as vast power in determining what is and is not legal in regards to firearm legality, to the point of crippling america's firearms industry. Anyone who wishes to build an entirely new firearm has to get the express written consent of the atf to do so, since they must determine that the firearm design is sufficiently incapable of being modified to be fully automatic. the waiting period for getting the ok to make your firearm from the ATF is arbitrary and ridiculous, and serves only to incentivise small gun-makers to stick with the same old designs, just to avoid this process. They can also change how these laws are defined and enforced on a whim, meaning they have the power to put a company out of buisness if they so choose. And in yet another example of the ATF's ineptitude, from 2004-2007, all shoestrings were considered machineguns and therefore de jure illegal (http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/). even today owning a garand action rifle and shoestring could theoretically could be defined as constructive intent. Their definaintons are so byzantine and rediculous that putting a particular kind of rifle to your shoulder is considered manufacturing an short barreled rifle and therefore illegal. for examples of the rediculous nature of ATF definitions of firearms, see the attached links.

http://2static2.fjcdn.com/comments/I+m+not+trying+to+start+a+flame+war+or+anything+_fccefe63c14573d7f7477569d292cfbe.jpg

http://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Common+sense+firearm+infringement_aff0df_6115592.jpg

The benefits of removing such a heinous branch are, most obviously, budgetary; removing several thousand employees, as all the logistics that go along with running an organization of that sort, should be obvious. while it is most likely that the budget of the FBI will have to increase, there is no reason it should go above the net cost of operating the ATF, meaning that it would still be a net decrease in budget. It would also be good for PR, as there are a great many people who have an intense dislike of the ATF.

In summation, the ATF is bad at doing its job, which is redundant, and should not exist in it present state. eliminating the entire agency would only benefit the united states of america

>>483260

The guy behind it is on the dime for doing jack shit during WW2. Ask anyone who says he's good what he did other than not screw up World War 2 and they'll either stutter or tell you his economic policies his own treasurery secretary called a massive failure.

I should ask the congressman about legislation to put President Coolidge and John Browning on the dime

>>483332

I know full well what a faggot FDR was.

>>483337

>mises institute

You are a good person

>>483466

>ancap just before the xanax overdose kicks in.jpg

Tomorrow (17th) the congressman has a town hall. As it's local I'm just going to go, meet the district director again to confirm some details, then sit and watch so I can get a better feel for the things he feels (or at least claims to feel) are important that I can incorporate into my notes (I've spent the past month looking up interviews with him for lines and points to use.)

>>483827

自閉症の力ってすげー！

Went to the event. No serious attempts at disruption, even though there was a packed location (~250 people going by seating capacity and standing people).

Didn't note anything I could use for my meeting beyond a slight change in verbage to one of the possible responses (they said the video of the event will be on Youtube next week if you wanted to watch it yourself. It was a pretty mild event.).

>SCCY is moving out of the state

Shit, having to take an in-district maker off my list sucks.

Hearing about Handel in Georgia, going to call her office in the morning and make a donation if she's supportive of NFA repeal. Hope my congressman can do it, but never hurts to have a few backup plans.

>>485293

Is that some airshit?

1 week left.

Even though my Congressman was in the Navy, would it help to cite the Soviet AKM manual (which I actually have a physical copy of for some reason) for automatic fire being useless? Anyone have an American manual that mentions this (All the military manuals for the M16/M4 I can find are parts list and maintence instructions)?

Called CZ-USA after learning about the hats they were giving away. While the guy I got (who says he saw my post on another website before I called) said he wasn't sure if there was anything he could add, he agreed to look over my notes and gave me a good point I didn't even consider: Having to wait 8+ months between a product being ordered and shipped is a huge waste of money for a company.

>>475472

>Future Fascists

wat

>>488112

While Winston Churchill never actually said "The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists", someone did and it's a well known enough line the connection should be obvious.

What order should I present my notes in (I'll have about half an hour)

Thinking

>many endorsements and petition so he doesn't think I'm alone

>lack of use in crime (as it's shortish, and the strongest actual reason the NFA shouldn't exist)

>it makes no sense (segways into next bit)

>NFA enables the corrupt ATF (ties in strongly with his most prominent talking points at town halls of unelected bureaucrats)

>other smaller points

>>488557

>many endorsements and petition so he doesn't think I'm alone

>other smaller points

>lack of use in crime (as it's shortish, and the strongest actual reason the NFA shouldn't exist)

>NFA enables the corrupt ATF (ties in strongly with his most prominent talking points at town halls of unelected bureaucrats)

My opinion

>>488562

>>other smaller points

>it makes no sense (segways into next bit)

>>lack of use in crime (as it's shortish, and the strongest actual reason the NFA shouldn't exist)

>>488562

Shouldn't I lead with something strong instead of my random bits like "It's harder to make a semi-auto closed bolt gun than a full-auto open bolt one" and "You've repeatedly said Congress should have to follow the same laws as everyone else. Congress's Capitol Police are exempt from the NFA."?

Got call back from District Director. Travel issues forced me to be rescheduled.

However my list of stuff the bill needs to do was well received and has been given both to the congressman directly and his legislative staff. Final version of that had the following listed as "prospective goals"

>Treat “short barreled rifles”, “machine guns” and large bore “destructive devices” as normal long arms and treat “short barreled shotguns” and “any other weapon” as handguns except for the purposes of the Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act of 1985

>Require the disposition of the “National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.” and other government records of formerly restricted items

>Remove the requirement to notify the ATF when the owner moves or transports the item across state lines.

>Eliminate the “special occupational tax” of the NFA and ITAR registration fee from the 1976 Arms Export Control Act

>Specify that less-lethal agents like CS gas are not “poison gas”

>Eliminate restrictions on individuals making firearms for personal use.

>Allow explosives to be registered in lots with a single stamp, as the ATF has recomended in the leaked white paper. This fixes the issue of what is a single unit of explosive and simplifies paperwork for collectors.

>Censure the actions of the judicial system and US government in US v. Miller.

and some random names.

>>488579

Names for the bill I mean.

>>488579

>>488594

I'm not really the creative type, but I'll try.

Common Sense For Gun Rights Act?

Repealing of Outdated Gun Laws Act?

Simplification of Gun Laws Act?

2nd Amendment Restoration Act?

The NRA Will Probably Lobby Against This Because They Own Collections of Banned NFA Items And They Don't Want To Lose Muh Investments Act?

Okay the last one doesn't have a ring to it, but I think the 2nd Amendment Restoration Act does.

>>488699

I like common sense for gun rights act, would help get tons of anti-gun lemmings who won't even read the text on board.

>>488850

Yeah, I thought it'd be funny to use MUH COMMON SENSE buzzword back at them.

>>488850

>>489013

Wouldn't that also have the adverse effect of causing a kneejerk reaction from pro-funs who have understandably come to associate the phrase "common sense" with "we're taking your guns away because of feels"?

Wouldn't they pretty much cancel each other out?

>>489078

Pro gunners generally actually read the laws, at the very least to find out how hard they are gonna get fucked this time around.

>>489079

I've met too many fudds who don't pay attention to that shit at all to believe that.

>>488850

Names that don't involve guns hasn't really helped the HPA all that much beyond its overall branding of suppressors as safety devices.

>>489556

Never. He's either not going to bother or get paid to cuck out.

>>489556

He didn't really mention any of the names I suggested. I really don't even care what it's called.

And reminder anyone who is in FL-6 needs to call the congressman's office.

Well I called a local gun store to see if they had a variant of a rifle they were advertising (they didn't), but I mentioned the meeting and that they should. Maybe that will get a few calls.

>>483240

Jesus christ nigga fucking spell check that shit. I fixed it for you

The ATF is redundant, has too much power, and there is nothing that the ATF does that could not be done, and done better, by the FBI. My case for why the duties that are performed by the ATF should be absorbed into the FBI are simply that the ATF is bad at doing its job, which i will describe in detail. In addition, I believe that defining the laws as set forth in the NFA, GCA and FOPA should not be delegated to an executive branch, as this has led to what is and is not legal being chosen seemingly at random, and is quite frankly not fairly enforceable in its current state, and the US Attorney general should put out a letter encouraging attorney generals to not prosecute such cases until these laws can be defined in a way that is consistent.

The FBI already handles the firearms background checks, and is more than capable of enforcing the law.

Every single major operation conducted by the ATF that received media attention has ended in disaster, and brought about Orwellian visions of the present and future. see: Ruby Ridge, where a mother and child were shot and killed over the length of a shotgun barrel. There is also the Waco siege, where people were killed over a theoretical (victimless) crime, in which the ATF required support from the FBI, which begs the question why they are even a separate branch in the first place if they are incapable of enforcing their mandate by themselves. Then there is operation fast and furious, in which ATF agents deliberately gave firearms to criminals, which were then used to kill Americans, meaning they performed the exact opposite of their mandate, and failed to achieve the objectives the set out to achieve in performing such an action.

The ATF has vast power in determining what is and is not legal in regards to firearm legality, to the point of crippling America's firearms industry. Anyone who wishes to build an entirely new firearm has to get the express written consent of the ATF to do so, since they must determine that the firearm design is sufficiently incapable of being modified to be fully automatic. the waiting period for getting the OK to make your firearm from the ATF is arbitrary and ridiculous, and serves only to incentivize small gun-makers to stick with the same old designs, just to avoid this process. They can also change how these laws are defined and enforced on a whim, meaning they have the power to put a company out of business if they so choose. And in yet another example of the ATF's ineptitude, from 2004-2007, all shoestrings were considered machine-guns and therefore de jure illegal (http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/). even today owning an M1 Garand action type rifle and shoestring could theoretically could be defined as constructive intent. Their definitions are so byzantine and ridiculous that putting a particular kind of rifle to your shoulder is considered manufacturing an short barreled rifle and therefore illegal. for examples of the ridiculous nature of ATF definitions of firearms, see the attached links.

http://2static2.fjcdn.com/comments/I+m+not+trying+to+start+a+flame+war+or+anything+_fccefe63c14573d7f7477569d292cfbe.jpg

http://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Common+sense+firearm+infringement_aff0df_6115592.jpg

The benefits of removing such a heinous branch are, most obviously, budgetary; removing several thousand employees, as all the logistics that go along with running an organization of that sort, should be obvious. while it is most likely that the budget of the FBI will have to increase, there is no reason it should go above the net cost of operating the ATF, meaning that it would still be a net decrease in budget. It would also be good for PR, as there are a great many people who have an intense dislike of the ATF.

In summation, the ATF is bad at doing its job, which is redundant, and should not exist in its present state. Eliminating the entire agency would only benefit the United States of America.

Prehaps we could unsticky this and replace it with a new thread telling American anons to call their Congressman and Senators?

Can we replace this sticky with

>>497203

?

Miami judge rules Florida’s new Stand-Your-Ground law is unconstitutional

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article159394094.html

http://archive.is/HZqRp

>>502167

Hope a cokehead finds him an easy target and source of drug money

>>488699

AMERICAN FIREARM SAFETY ACT

>>488579

The following are the reforms that I have in mind.

-Federal Constitutional carry which nullifies all anti-carry statues in the country

-Federal Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground law

-Allow truckers to carry

-Repeal NFA

-Forbid any Federal Assault weapons ban,overthrow any state-level assault weapons ban, including guns banned by name,and banned features.

-Reform importation rules so you could import guns like this AK,and the mp7 without any fuckery that's sporterization which makes the guns unreliable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJs9sBBjLls

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY_lPyHyqLU

-Force the military to allow vet bring backs,force military to dump Ammo &Small arms onto the surplus market, ban them from destroying ammo & small arms.

>>481728

You forgot to get rid of the import bans, especially the norinco import ban and also to get rid of the ap ammo ban. It's completely unconstitutional and only makes ammo more expensive given many surplus rounds are steel core.

Also the ATF have applied it to all ammo, pistol and rifle when it was only meant for pistols.

And ap ammo is very easy to make, especially pistol ammo.

Just get some tool steel, cut it to .3 inches, sharpen it and then harden it and it stick it into a hollow point. Make sure the diameter is large enough to get a tight fit. You now have ap pistol ammo.

>>510401

Sporting purpose and armor piercing is already covered in the Lawful Purpose and Self Defense Act (HR 2710) so I don't need to get anything related to that introduced. Norinco ban is a president directed sanction from them trying to sell fun-switched AKs to gang-bangers.

Really wish a mod would unsticky this and sticky

>>497203

in its place.

>>512610

If you need us to see things quickly its best to report em so we can see them immediately.

Anyway, time to sticky a new thread and unsticky this one?

>>513624

Sticky the shtf general so the sperg OP doesn't keep bumping, complaining of sliding.

>>513624

Already did report and yes it is.

>trusting american electoral politics

I got some news for you Annon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig&t

>>475472

Okay so I managed to mail my congressman Kenny Marchant (Tx 24th district), So far he's voted for these:

Voted YES on prohibiting product misuse lawsuits on gun manufacturers. (Oct 2005)

National cross-state standard for concealed carry. (Jan 2009)

Loosen restrictions on interstate gun purchases. (Oct 2011)

Allow veterans to register unlicensed guns acquired abroad. (Apr 2011)

Require video recording of every firearm test by ATF. (Jan 2011)

Interstate transportation of firearms is federally prote. (Feb 2015)

Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC. (Mar 2007)

Apply concealed carry permit to all other states where legal. (Feb 2009)

I don't know if will read my mail but I'll get a friend who had his Eagle Ceremony (and talked to him) to write him a letter. Hopefully he doesn't get displaced by the influx of the pajeets who think murder is wrong whatnot, "Americans are savages" and that gun owners are lunactics.They voted for him last time cause he promised reduced taxes lol. Did I also mention that the cops in the area actually seem to appreciate the gun owners? I had to run off a fucking pajeet who was sitting on my retaining wall and told me "it's public property 4m away from the damn sidewalk, and the (middle schoolers who threw rocks at my house). Cop actually didnt give a fuck that I was under 18 LOL on both occasions

>It's funny how I'm supposed support-gun legislation as an Asian-American I guess my gramps getting purged by the commies and he didn't have a gun (anymore) play a role in that

Meanwhile I also mailed John Cornyn (Current Senate Whip) But he did make a gun control bill, that arsehole.

>>525235

Good job. Be sure to visit local office too if possible.

>>525245

You know if it's worth trying to convince my classmates? My schools filled with blacks/spics/pajeets though. We have like 4-10 white people in a class of 220. I actually got flak for convincing someone to go to range I wasn't even at school talking about it wtf??

Do you think we can try to play the get the minority vote for the rep to back the bills I know hes republican? His district has a lot of Chinese, viet, and Korean the last two which are based as f cause they came from post war Korea and Vietnam as refugees That district has a >13% asian population.

>>525266

Im high school lol.

I tend to go to range outside my district cause I need to work on my long range shooting I live on top a hill

Unstickied this thread due to another big one coming up, sorry lads, keep up the good work!