/hydrus/ - Hydrus Network

>>3560

I also think having a decentralized IPFS Network of scraped Pictures is a great idea! Rule34 pheal took down almost half of its content because it was forced to, and I think that's just the beginning.

I also think Hydrus deserves a lot more attention than it gets, but I don't know if I want the community to grow too big. I love how you can directly involve yourself in the development of the program, and discuss with the dev what you think.

But, maybe we can make an IPFS thread, and share our databases. I heard of one guy in another thread using a program he coded himself to completely scrape some boorus, if he could make these public, that'd be awesome! I'd gladly "seed" at least!

>>3580

>I also think having a decentralized IPFS Network of scraped Pictures is a great idea! Rule34 pheal took down almost half of its content because it was forced to, and I think that's just the beginning.

Yup, the Internet won't survive without decentralization. It's getting more cucked by the day.

Long story short (and I've been thinking this out for a while) we need to scrape every single thing on the Internet, use it as building material for our own p2p communities, then build crypto-economies in these p2p spaces that tap into the entrepreneurial spirit and fuel the continued growth of the decentralized web. That's basically how I see the decentralized web coming into its own as a realistic contender to the current Internet.

>I love how you can directly involve yourself in the development of the program, and discuss with the dev what you think.

I like it too, it's good to find someone so dedicated to their work and so available for input.

>But, maybe we can make an IPFS thread, and share our databases. I heard of one guy in another thread using a program he coded himself to completely scrape some boorus, if he could make these public, that'd be awesome! I'd gladly "seed" at least!

I prefer to start with what people are already doing and just steer it a little. That's why I'm doing it the way that I am >>3560

Once I'm done tagging all my stuff I'll start doing major image dumps on various boards and including an IPFS link so people can download it p2p as well. I'm hoping it'll catch on & other anons will follow suit. You have to make it as painless a transition as possible if you want it to catch on.

>>3583

>we need to scrape every single thing on the Internet

Cool. Buy as all 10-exabyte external towers and we can get started!

Anyways, ultimately we need to take out the Bell Labs pacifier now that everything's going to shit and have a slow-but-decent open-source satellite-and-dish strong-encrypted network to p2p over. Slow as balls given the encryption, the p2p protocols, and little or nothing being stored on the satellites themselves (they're just the routers), but make it something anyone can build a dish and connect to and the die-hard paranoids will flock to it while the great middle will shy away and not completely overload it.

We'll need:

>Lots of money

>Cryptowizards

>Mechanical and aeronautical techs

>Great sysadmins

>Lots of materials

>Dedicated bands with strong enough broadcasting to punch through the inevitable government jamming signals, but fine-grained and high-frequency enough to transmit encrypted files with decent speed

>A way to keep the pedos from completely saturating everything and driving everyone else away forever like they did with freenet and tor

>Materials for dishes

>Ways to conceal or disguise the dishes

>Step-by-step instructions for building, configuring, and hooking up to PC various sized of dishes

The much cheaper and easier alternative to satellite is ham, which I'm told has some protocols to transfer images and even some encryption. The only problem is it's slower than Jabba.

>>3587

>Buy as all 10-exabyte external towers and we can get started!

You don't get the idea of distributed, do you?

>We'll need….

You're thinking a little too far ahead. I'm talking about simple things that we can do now, not laying down the infrastructure for a whole new Internet.. >>>/killcen/ is on the right track but they're too narrowly focused and they're using centralized storage like mega & mediafire in order to share stuff. hydrus gives us IPFS!

As far as money goes, an alternative network would have to be built in such a manner that it finances its own construction. The IPFS protocol will incentivize people with Filecoin to share their harddrive space. That can be the fertile soil we need for growing a p2p digital economy, attracting entrepreneurs and content creators.

You have to think grass roots, not top-down.

>>3588

You don't get the scale of every single thing on the Internet, do you?

>simple things that we can do now

>guis let's download everything on the entire internet lolololol

Have I fallen for a ruse or have you just not thought this through?

The problem with full IPFS as opposed to centralized storage is that if not everyone has massive enough storage/interest in everything on the internet, even what we "have" can go dark because someone dies, loses internet access, has money problems, or just loses interest…or they didn't actually make a backup and accidentally a hard drive, or their wife makes them delete their whatever, or they panic and reformat a drive, so on, so on. Idealism only goes so far.

>it finances its own construction

>you get a currency that…lets you download more of other peoples things, limiting or throttling everyone by default and crippling the system worse than ISP throttles?

>attracting entrepreneurs to filehoarding so that governments can take an interest, pass laws, spy, buy, and control it

Idealism only…nope, fuck it, if you think this will work try it out.

>grass roots

Media fluff term, anon. Decentralization is meritorious situationally because of its benefits, but it also has drawbacks, and it is not its own self-contained virtue, let alone an unconditional one. In the case of Hydrus and other distributed and peer-to-peer systems it can be great, but there are actually some very good reasons Freenet hasn't subsumed the internet.

You should check out Freenet by the way, very interesting system, fully encrypted and decentralized, would get faster and faster as more people used it…but less and less people did use it.

>>3587

>>3591

Shill please. Look up cjdns and hyperboria. Redditors have been doing what you think is impossible.

>The much cheaper and easier alternative to satellite is ham, which I'm told has some protocols to transfer images and even some encryption.

Encrypted HAM transmissions are illegal.

>You should check out Freenet by the way

If you like being arrested.

>>3592

>let me throw vague nonsense around, talk about le epic Reddit, and call people shills!

>I also don't know anything about Freenet but I want to sound smart so I'll say something dismissive and pretend there's a consensus that the platform is insecure

You can't backpedal hard enough to get out of your own verbatim line about "every single thing on the internet".

>>3593

1. I'm not the same anon that you were talking too.

2. I called you a shill because you're actually shilling.

You've latched onto this one non-literal comment about scraping everything and thrown out strawmans about needing ridiculous equipment and personnel to decentralize the net when that's not true. Meshnets like hyperboria using cjdns are doing that right now.

Lastly the problem with Freenet isn't that it's insecure it's that the government has decided that it "has no legitimate use" and will visit you simply for routing FN traffic.

>>3594

> I'm not the same anon that you were talking too.

No but I am, and you're right. He's just being a literalist asshole. I was talking about something that would be continuous. "Every single thing" means don't just limit yourself to scraping images or even to multimedia & documents. I'm all for scraping entire blogs & wikis and storing them in a format that webmasters could import into their own darknet sites, build crazy mash-ups out of, etc.

>>3591

>You should check out Freenet by the way, very interesting system, fully encrypted and decentralized, would get faster and faster as more people used it…but less and less people did use it.

Build-it-and-they-will-come doesn't work. You have to tap into things that people are already doing and appeal to their own interests.

People share stuff on boards like >>>/killcen/ >>>/wg/ & >>>/wx/. Well Hydrus lets them share stuff.

People here have terabytes of downloaded shit and nothing to organize it with other than a crappy file system. Hydrus lets them organize it.

>Idealism only goes so far.

Why do you think I say it should finance itself?

>>3594

>2. I called you a shill because you're actually shilling.

Not that guy or anyone else involved in this conversation, but fuck off with that shit.

>>3594

I've been routing FN traffic for years and have yet to get a knock. This also ties in heavily with my point about "keeping pedophiles from saturating everything". The government can easily make that handwaving distinction about anything else just as easily as Freenet.

>>3596

>a literalist asshole

Get your solipsist bullshit out of technical discussion, you went out of your way to emphasize a literal, and that aside, I'm telling you that the amount of people who would actually do this, ever, aren't enough to archive even a small fraction of the discrete content on the internet, unless some silicon valley serverlords look down from on high, drop out of their clearnet hosting businesses, and devote all of their clusters to it.

>Build-it-and-they-will-come doesn't work

That's exactly what you've been advocating.

>You have to tap into things that people are already doing and appeal to their own interests.

Which freenet did a few years ago.

I'm not saying Hydrus isn't great; I obviously use it. I'm saying this idea of crypto-economies will never be so simple.

>Why do you think I say it should finance itself?

Honestly, because I think you don't entirely get what makes cryptocurrency valuable or desirable. Every time a new one is made, no matter how much better or less manipulable than Bitcoin it is, it only serves to make all of the other cryptocurrencies less used and useful, garner itself small novelty use, and Bitcoin marches on, flaws and all, because it was the first one to get popular and on the news.

>>3597

But he's right I'm le alphabet soup shill man for auditing his ideas instead of watching in silence as he puts massive effort in based on partial information and falls flat. It's not like I want the same sort of thing as he does and am cautioning him against going off half-cocked and making dead subnets by being too ambitious, I'm just here getting paid to discourage people from standing against The Man™, otherwise I would enthusiastically agree with everything as part of the counter-cultural hacker collective that must always agree and suck the dicks of the same few cultural icons over and over to prove how free and independent and anti-censorship they are. God I'm sick of that shit, collectivists gb2 punk rock raging

>>3598

>Get your solipsist bullshit out of technical discussion, you went out of your way to emphasize a literal

Well then it's relevant to technical discussion that I tell you why you're wrong and I'm not being literal. The scraping of content from the Internet is intended as a means, not an end in itself.

I want to see a thriving p2p Internet with original content creators, businesses, counterparts to patreon, amazon, eBay, etc all running on crypto. Not just a dead archive of everything on the current Internet. We have the technical tools for this, stuff like hydrus, zeronet, i2p, but there's just no serious social momentum behind it. Content creators and businesses want to set up shop where there is traffic and where Google can see them. So that's where most traffic continues to go and any alternatives just languish in obscurity.

I'm proposing a way out of this by scraping quality content from the web, sharing it in our own informal p2p networks and using it to grow our own alternative communities. I certainly don't mean every eight-year-old's Deviant Art gallery or the Youtube channel of every angsty teenager.

The idea is for these communities to grow to a point where they become their own sizeable demographic, and start attracting/producing their own content creators & entrepreneurs.

>Build-it-and-they-will-come doesn't work

>That's exactly what you've been advocating.

No, building yet another program for sharing stuff p2p, and then not bothering to promote it other than just telling people that it exists, is build-it-and-they-will-come. You can see from my original post that I'm doing something pro-active to get people interested in using hydrus.

>Which freenet did a few years ago.

Not very well then.

> I think you don't entirely get what makes cryptocurrency valuable or desirable

>Bitcoin marches on, flaws and all, because it was the first one to get popular and on the news.

Popularity & media coverage is one way but not the only one. "Made up" currencies became valuable even before crypto came along. Look what happened with the QQcoin (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HL05Cb01.html) as well as the market for MMORPG currencies. If a large community of people are using it then it takes on a real world value.

What game currencies share in common with cryptos like Filecoin, Safecoin, Storjcoin, is that they incentivize what people are already doing anyway. Game currencies reward gameplay. Filecoins reward the hosting of files. If it seamlessly integrates with what the community itself is all about anyway then it can gain a large userbase. Plus they can always exchange for Buttcoin if they want to.

>>3600

>Not very well then

Look, Freenet was not always like it is now. It almost made it, it almost became what Tor ended up being for a while. In fact, it had a very similar life and death. The nations of Freenet (and Tor) lived in harmony - until the pedo nation attacked. It's not just that pedos drive away sensitive people (the constant gore on any darknet could do that just as well, so the pedos really serve no useful purpose), it's that they aggressively overtake anything that doesn't drive them out with torches, like furries do on the clearnet only a thousand times worse because an even greater percentage of them are thoroughly terrible people and they are absolutely and unquestionably persecuted to the point that no one would deny it but most of the world's population is adamant that it should continue. I'm not going to go on a diatribe about how things "should" be or whether or not this or that makes things worse or better or about pedophilia's moral questions at all, I'm just going to tell you what I've seen: basically no content creators, absolutely no businesses or entrepreneurs, and fairly few interesting, skilled, or knowledgeable people want to associate with pedophiles or use things associated with pedophiles, be it out of the massive social stigma, panic or reservations about being arrested, or, and more commonly with internet-goers, they're familiar with and just fucking despise pedophiles. That's the real reason for the continuing lolicaust, its origins aren't with the SJWs at all, the continuing and often overzealous censorship of anything that is or even can be construed as pedophilic is the overall global vox populi, even in a world that's becoming pozzed as fuck otherwise.

There was all kinds of cool shit on Freenet once upon a time, and some of it is still "there" or listed, but it's slow as hell or downright unavailable because everyone fucking left, not just because of cp and lots of pedo discussions, but because they pushed their pedoshit into everything, any comment section or forum. Same shit on Tor. Really, the only socialization other than a few anon pastebins is G2 (last I checked, could be dead now) because the pedos always had a strong hold in the various hiddenwikis and forums and G2 is like the only social site I know of that absolutely torches them and has (or had) active mods to do it. Now Tor and Freenet both have some security and legality limitations, but make no mistake, the reason they are dying is above all not the feds or that they didn't appeal to anyone, it's because people do not like pedos and do not want to browse cp or hear about how some autistic guy wants to fuck kids. (that's not a generic insult, pedophilia is much more common with actual autists because they often grow to adulthood with the psychological profile of children, it's this whole thing)

So the problem with any decentralized, anti-censorship thing that anyone makes, ever, is that pedos ruin it. Whether you blame pedos for acting badly or society for causing them to is up to you, I'm just telling you what I've seen year after year.

I don't bring this up because I want you to never try to do anything, I bring this up to make sure you understand the problem and hopefully can find a solution.

I can't so far. I keep on trying, but ultimately you either have a centralized system of censorship/control/moderation for your decentralized system of sharing (which comes with risks and downsides and will discourage a lot of people) or you have pure decentralization and the pedos take over everything. hydrus is cool in that anyone can set up tag nodes and file nodes, but it's still sort of a combination of nodes and p2p, so it may be more promising…you just have to make sure you have "node alliances" of sorts or giant supernodes where the person running the node has the right amount of control over what is shared without repelling everyone.

If we're very, very careful we might be able to create something cool that will last a while. I'm not being a pessimist, I'm just explaining what does and will happen if some sort of careful balance and countermeasures are not taken.

Final note: If anyone reading this is a pedophile or a lolicon or whatever, there's really no need to lash out at me for telling it like it is. You should be more familiar than me with this problem, and how pedos make themselves miserable by driving everyone away and then lose interest in a platform themselves. If you want to ever have any chance at all at having anyone else tolerate you, you're going to have to drop the bullshit as a demographic.

>>3605

>you're going to have to drop the bullshit as a demographic

That's like telling all homosexuals to stop being gay.

It will never happen.

Never.

I enjoy loli to the fullest extent and I will do everything in my power to preserve and spread it.

>>3605

I've always kept the entire subject of pedos at arms length. But I think you've already laid out the solution to the pedo problem: diligent, trustworthy, responsible mods. Technology will only go so far and it always takes people to make things work.

A censorship resistant platform has to be tempered with proper moderation in the communities that are built on that platform.

btw are you signalling that we've spoken in a certain thread together sometime before? on pol?

>>3611

>preserve

That's your thing.

>spread

Frankly, fuck you for undermining every attempt at decentralization or prevention of censorship for your bullshit that you know everyone's going to continue to hate and react to.

>>3612

This is what I mean by idealism. If there's anything, anything you just "don't know how to deal with", it will be taken advantage of to unbelievable lengths every time you want to make something cool and not full of rules and centralization. I don't even need to give you examples, I mean, have you not noticed everything that happened with 8ch and HW from its inception on to the present day? It was an incredible demonstration of nearly every single thing that can go wrong with stuff like this.

>signalling

No newspeak pls :^)

But no, I don't browse /pol/, because it's become far too much of an echo chamber since the first month or so of the /pol/ migration, honestly.

I want to remind you that there were a LOT of people trying to make both Freenet and Tor work, smart and diligent people, some rather well-equipped and well-funded…and while there is still use for Tor and some places on it worth seeing or posting on, it's for the most part dead in the water for everything other than obfuscating clearnet browsing.

Unless you have people they didn't have (and it's not as if computer-literate imageboard users were not aware of or on board with either of these things), you're not going to be able to get away with being squeamish about the topic of pedos while community-building without it becoming a whole thing. That was the problem with Tor, the devs and hosts themselves just never talked about it, it was just muh freedoms until suddenly they were knee-deep in cp and getting deeper, and everyone started to split. I mean any random .onion link has like a 1 in 3 chance to be or contain cp or some reference to it.

Okay lets be technical. If you want to help decentralize the internet, starting with the physical links:

Satellites are never going to be the answer to anything. It costs about $1,200 to get 1lb to low earth orbit. The hardware itself will also cost a large amount of money to design and construct. The spectrum that you're using for broadcasting will also cost an enormous amount of money to be licensed, if you can even find any free spectrum these days. Plus you will need to build, launch, and maintain several of these satellites to have a usable network. The amount of effort and funding required makes this idea impractical. But there are some crowd funding scams centered around this idea if you want to believe.

Running wire, unless you're running from your property to your neighbor's, is also impractical. As above there are some legal issues that you must overcome and the startup costs make it nearly impossible for anyone except the tech titans like Google to start laying their own fiber. Entrenched ISPs will figuratively murder you for trying to break into their markets.

If you can't go too high and you can't stay on the ground that leaves wireless. It's actually not very hard or cost prohibitive to run a WISP and service an entire city. A downside to this is that it still has the gatekeeper problem of regular ISPs. A solution without the gatekeeper problem is having ad-hoc networks using off-the-shelf wireless routers running third party firmware. A downside this is that coverage sucks unless people in your local area are interested in it. Personally I favor this approach because if you're reading this then you have access to the hardware required. Netsukuku, BATMAN, cjdns, take your pick. Using HAMs for networking is a no-go.

I'm going to completely ignore the legislative approach because that's a joke.

Now for the software. IPFS will go a long way to reducing the cost of websites. Specifically the cost of distributing the data. The more people that can afford to run their own websites and services the less power Google, Amazon, Facebook, etcetera have over everyone. Right now you cannot host a bandwidth intensive site like YouTube without having a YouTube-scale data center, CDNs, and up-links, but with visitors rehosting your content temporarily or even permanently this will become feasible for an average person. Or that's the dream at least. The idea that everyone needs to be able to store everything OR ELSE is a strawman argument. What happens when someone loses interest in hosting a file on the regular web? What happens when a old file drops off Freenet? It's all irrelevant because IPFS helps with distribution not storage.

Freenet, Tahoe-LAFS, and other distributed data stores while interesting have some major problems and aren't really comparable to IPFS. First being that these require users to run their own standalone clients whereas anyone with a browser can access an IPFS powered site. One runs ontop of the internet and the other is attempting to seamlessly integrate itself with the current internet. With Freenet everyone helps hosts everything and there is zero moderation. This is not the case with IPFS and the problem of unknowingly helping to distribute illegal material does not exist. Great idea for anonymously accessing data but terrible for running websites. It takes forever to get that one file you want out of the 100GB of encrypted trash you're storing and it's very difficult to do real time dynamic content. Not compatible with the current web full of live steaming media.

Retroshare, I2P, Tor, and the rest are tools designed to provide anonymous communication and don't do much to combat centralization.

While there is a bit of truth in what >>3605 said distributed and decentralized systems are not always anti-censorship and I think it's wrong to associate them with pedophilia. This is turning into a bit of a tl;dr so I'm just going to stop here.

>>3614

>will never

>talks in terms of current costs

Ya blew it already.

>It's actually not very hard or cost prohibitive to run a WISP and service an entire city.

But it's not all that common, because it's still easier to lay down a little copper, and you still run into frequency licensing issues unless you're just going to jam the home wifi of everyone not interested in your thing and get sued for your trouble. It's not as if you set up a city-wide wireless system of any kind and no one notices and it's not under massive extra legal and city planning scrutiny and gets on the evening news with all of the worst things they could find on it prominently displayed/spoken about. Then it takes a few of the "something must be done" crowd and your ambitious wireless project is outlawed by bureaucrats.

You can also only ever communicate with people in your immediate area via this system. Even assuming everyone interested in decentralization and privacy lives in cities (good joke, that), it still leaves you talking to an insular community only able to communicate over the decentralized protocols by either encrypted landline stuff (defeating the point of pretending to be independent of ISPs) or by sneakernetters with vans full of racks.

>The idea that everyone needs to be able to store everything OR ELSE is a strawman argument.

No, it's not, brush up on your basic fallacies. It would at least make sense as an accusation if you called it a red herring, but that would also be wrong as I was responding directly to a repeated claim which the claimant later said was "just like irrelevant bro like I didn't even mean that, I just kept repeating it for no reason man".

>What happens when someone loses interest in hosting a file on the regular web?

A 404, redirect, or file missing splash page.

>What happens when a old file drops off Freenet?

It takes fucking forever to discover that it can't assemble a full copy, if it figures it out at all, and you can't tell if it's just being slow/having trouble finding it or if it's actually completely gone, and if it will be back during different hours or is really just entirely gone. That is the exact problem. Same problem with torrents and seeding, just more complex and compounding.

Now hydrus has the advantage, as far as I know anyways, of any file not available just not being visible until it is, which is a boon. It solves the management problem. It does not solve the reliable content availability issue inextricably linked to user-hosted content, nor is this an issue that has a solution as such, it's just something to be wary of, and again it was brought up in response to the repeated calls to "save every damn fucking thing on the entire internet we've gotta get everything I'm downloading an internet right now!!!1!!11!".

>It's all irrelevant because IPFS helps with distribution not storage.

This is like saying "it's irrelevant what the US mint does because banks are about distribution not production". If the reliable storage problem continually sticks with the distribution mode, saying "oh that's nothing for me to be concerned about" is entirely absurd. Storage and distribution are two inextricably entwined aspects of accessibility. The users you want to attract (and this thread's topic IS "ideas for promoting hydrus", not "why hydrus is good", you'll note) don't care how good the software itself is if the connection and overall accessibility is shitty, and will not contribute to making it better if it's unreliable enough to begin with. That problem is entirely within the scope of the issue the OP raises, and I would first call into question the usefulness of yelling "not our problem" at any potential obstacle not directly related to the software itself. The software is developed by hydrus_dev; that does not rely on anyone else to do anything thus far and as far as I'm aware. So what exactly are you bringing to the table by insisting that everything is fine and wonderful and there can be no problems that are within the limited scope of your concerns?

>This is not the case with IPFS and the problem of unknowingly helping to distribute illegal material does not exist.

Yes, this is a great point for hydrus, and the speed is certainly much better. What's even better is that nodes can be curated by the owners easily and content blocked (I hope). Still a lot of maintenance to do in practice, but better than nothing. About as good as imageboards themselves, really.

>Retroshare, I2P, Tor, and the rest are tools designed to provide anonymous communication and don't do much to combat centralization.

If we're getting technical, Hydrus completely centralizes both metadata and file discovery and access (unless I missed something about how the servers work). Yes, the files themselves are stored in a decentralized form to reduce the load, but that's a lot like what torrent trackers already do…it's just easier and better than torrents. You're still reliant on the tag and file servers to share freely and easily.

>distributed and decentralized systems are not always anti-censorship

There are degrees of anti-censorship. Anyone who is looking to forsake the speed and convenience of the internet for a more limited and restricted alternative medium likely have some motivation(s). I don't think it's outside the scope of discussion of this software's promotion to acknowledge that common reasons include wishing to avoid censorship, identification, and legal snafus.

>I think it's wrong to associate them with pedophilia

Deny, deny, deny. If everyone pretends there's no correlation between decentralization, encryption, and things like pedophilia and drug trafficking, surely it will all go away. We've been through this same old dance for decades now with decentralization and cryptography, and still everyone shies away and blinkers themselves and pretends like it's not the main problem, it's not the reason any promising new alternative gets shot down by governments or abandoned by users before it ever gets there.

Compartmentalization may keep you in your comfort zone, but it does nothing to advance decentralization and ensures that the general public will warm more and more to Orwellian control schemes if the alternative is to "see no evil". Again, it doesn't matter what individual views are on the subject itself, what matters is the aggressive group behavior that drives away the vast majority of an otherwise interested userbase.

I can try and answer IPFS questions if anyone has them. I've messed with it quite a bit and try to keep up with the development. I didn't read the entire conversation so far.

>>3614

>It's all irrelevant because IPFS helps with distribution not storage.

IPFS itself doesn't need to be concerned with storage, it's a spec for building tools on on top of like HTTP, people have already built opt-in cache tools that allow you to essentially subscribe to a list of hashes that you will then mirror. I bet it wouldn't be hard to hook this up to Hydrus itself in the same way the FileServer service works, you subscribe to someones DistributedFiles, download a hash list from them (probably over IPNS) and then mirror them with your IPFS node. The hash lists themselves could be fragmented so that people can only mirror what they're interested in, and since it's all content addressed the fragmentation of the lists doesn't fragment the providers.

The reference IPFS implimentation isn't finished yet so the base is still improving and with it third party tools. Things like "pub-sub" could aid in this a lot when it's finished.

The official sister project "Filecoin" will also help with this as well, you donate your storage and bandwidth for a currency you can exchange for the same service. So you can donate your resources when you're not using them then cash in those tokens for when you are without your content being left unhosted. This will probably not be finished until the reference IPFS implementation is finished though.

I've seen lots of talk of people making some kind of Freenet-like and/or Perfect Dark type of opt-in "global" implicit sharing as well, you could really take your favorite approach and implement it utilizing IPFS since IPFS itself does not rely on one specific storage mechanism by default, it's intended to be hooked up to other things and/or built upon like this. However you would like the system to be you could just implement it that way and not have to write all the distribution/networking code, much like with http but with less address/domain problems. It really boils down to something as simple as "IPNS hash X has a list of IPFS hashes, parse it, get new stuff, remove deleted stuff", the only thing to worry about is who can publish to the IPNS hash and how that list gets managed. Again pub-sub should help with this. The orbit project may be interesting to look at too, it's a chat program built on IPFS so you can see how they handle distributed real time data between multiple peers currently.

https://github.com/haadcode/orbit

Speaking for myself I'd contribute my storage and bandwidth to hosting images for Anon.

>>3616

>What's even better is that nodes can be curated by the owners easily and content blocked (I hope).

The IPFS team maintains a blacklist that you can use or you can make your own, or merge any of the lists together kind of like a host file. So it's easy for individual nodes or gateway providers to maintain a list of content they will not download, store, or distribute.

For an example see this DMCA'd hash on the official public gateway, the gateway refuses to distribute or even seek out the hash.

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmVBEScm197eQiqgUpstf9baFAaEnhQCgzHKiXnkCoED2c

>>3615

>save every damn fucking thing on the entire internet we've gotta get everything I'm downloading an internet right now

Dude you are just gonna keep harping on that, aren't you? I want the clearnet to be completely replaced by the p2p net. I want it to reach a point where webmasters, content creators, etc just voluntarily put their content on the decentralized web themselves. At that point, scraping stuff is no longer necessary because it takes on a life of its own as p2p becomes the way people share stuff on the Internet and everybody shares their bandwidth & storage to make it all work. So in a way, YES, I was being literal okay? Ya GOT me!

But NON-literally I mean let's not limit ourselves to just scraping & sharing images. There's so much more potential IF we think of the so-called "Internet" as merely a source of free, scrape-able content for building the REAL p2p Internet. We scrape anything and everything.

Other Scrape-able Content

-ALL multimedia

-documents

-software

-blog & wiki content, stored as sql files for easy import into eepsites

-Google Map data

-pirated pay-wall content from news sites (you might not care about lamestream media, but let's hurt their fucking profits)

-Kindle & Kobo books (hurt THEIR fucking profits)

Offline Content

-books & magazines scanned with OCR

-local newspapers, classifieds & personals scanned with OCR

-recorded local radio broadcasts

-recorded local television

Non-English Content

Basically all the same stuff I just listed, but a reminder not to be anglo-centric. There's a LOT more content out there.

Okay can we go back to specific concrete things that can promote hydrus to a larger audience? I've covered the reasons why, how I think this could be instrumental as a way of getting more people to use decentralized technologies like IPFS. But without specifics we're just building castles in the clouds.

Here's a thread from >>>/hentai/3360 that I just scraped from cuckchan. You'll see a few more similar threads if you go to catalog view. I mention in the subject line and in the first few comment lines that I've scraped this from cuckchan using hydrus.

The pitch is that they can leverage cuckchans user activity to get more content, more posts per hour, more exposure and more traffic, which in turn will translate into yet more content. And it's all facilitated by hydrus' ability to scrape threads.

It's basically testing out of the idea I've proposed here that mass content scraping can be used as a way of getting more traffic, which I want to apply to the decentralized Internet in general by scraping mass amounts of content from the regular Internet in general.

Any suggestions on better ways to word it/present it? Any ideas on what other venues I could try this out in? I know that various porn tubes have their own discussion forums, because let's face it porn sharing is going to be a major driving force in this.

>>3620

>The pitch is that they can leverage cuckchans user activity to get more content, more posts per hour, more exposure and more traffic, which in turn will translate into yet more content. And it's all facilitated by hydrus' ability to scrape threads.

Nobody really gives a shit about the 8chan/4chan drama anymore, after the whole infinity fiasco. If anything you'll turn off people using that kind of slogan.

I'm pretty sure Hydrus' features are marketable enough without having to rely on memes.

>>3621

No need to limit things to cuckchan then. I scraped a thread from 7chan as well: >>>/hentai/3208

The idea is to showcase hydrus' ability to scrape threads by demonstrating it as a way to boost the amount of quality content on 8chan.

>>3619

>I want the clearnet to be completely replaced by the p2p net

That's even more delusional than the idea of downloading the entire internet. Also, replacing the internet would cause a standardized p2p net to be subjected to as much or more spying, scrutiny, censorship and legislative blocking as the internet is now, only if it's all through sharing hubs, the way to do that would be for governments to pass laws that restructure the internet so only they can run hubs and it's illegal for anyone else to run or connect to non-government hubs. For your own protection, citizen.

I think we've all been saving whatever we want from the internet for a while now, not just images. I mean, I'd hope. If you want something that will attract users to download from p2p rather than just scraping off the net (hydrus is one of the best and most flexible programs I know of for scraping in addition to its other features, but it's not the first or only such tool. Everyone loves scraping from the internet, and sharing what you've scraped through hydrus is even better. The best part is that it grants the user a measure of obscurity. We don't have to ask content creators to switch platforms because we can just scrape the content and no one cares or is watching for the most part, because we're sharing off the internet.

Let's think about this for a moment:

>down with le media le epic kill the online books DRM a bad!

Yeah, sure, but content creators don't think this way. A lot of content takes a lot of time, and they want to get paid for that, be it through ad money or directly. Saying "we have probably illegal copies of everything, everybody use it" will cause a lot of content creators to say "no, fuck off", and a lot of consumers to say "no thanks, I don't want to the fucko squad at my door and it would take too long for me to find out for sure what the risks are and how to avoid them".

Now you always have your free libre copyleft content creators, but they're going to post their stuff both on the p2p net (if it gets good and high-traffic enough to bother) and on the clearnet/centralnet/www so more people will use it and they'll get more feedback or downloads and know they spent their time well.

If you want to supplant the www (pls no, for the various reasons I listed above) and spark le revolution, you should go about it by making some juicy exclusive original content so amazing that everyone's salivating over it and make it only available via p2p….and then, naturally, someone will scrape it from p2p and just put it on an imageboard or mega or torrent trackers or whatever on www, to increase the availability and convenience.

That's what it's all really about to the mass of downloaders; convenience. That's what's giving hydrus traction, it serves the user, it drives to the content's house, gets it to strip on the way over while writing down any useful information about it, drives it to your house and presents it wet and ready while handing you a clipboard full of basic info about the content, and then it does it as many more times as you want with other content as it can.

Supplanting one net entirely with another removes user convenience and choice and generates hassle. No matter how sure you are that it would be totally better in every way and no matter how much you hate centralization, you still can't fight the user tendency to gravitate towards the convenient, which is different from every user.

So if you really, actually want to promote Hydrus, drop the David vs Goliath SJWshit and the whole "we're gonna take them down for daring to do thing we dislike with their own resources" thing and just…serve content.

Here's a good line of advertisement for promoting Hydrus:

Hey guys, do you like [type of content you know the group you are addressing probably likes]? Hydrus helps you download, tag, sort, and share content with your peers, and it's free! It's fast and easy to download and install too! Come give it a try, after installing see the help and try [these few basic helpful tips you know about it not featured prominently in the help], and here are the links and setup instructions for the official tag and file servers! Also here's the link to my own hub which has some more quality, curated [type of content group will enjoy]! I also have [this original content that is of quality and topic you are likely to enjoy, which significant effort and time was invested in], check it out!

>but a reminder not to be anglo-centric

Okay Tumblr, thanks, we all need to be reminded because you know us evil white males forgot the rest of the world existed and only browse 8chan and Facebook ::::^^^^))))))

>>3627

This really is my answer to the OP question btw, so let me repeat it for those who tl;dr this post. A general good idea for promoting hydrus is just its convenience, something simple and organic like:

Hey guys, do you like [type of content you know the group you are addressing probably likes]? Spend a lot of time trying to download from [whatever sites are likely to host it]? Hydrus helps you download, tag, sort, and share content with your peers, and it's free! It's fast and easy to download and install too! Come give it a try, after installing see the help and try [these few basic helpful tips you know about it not featured prominently in the help], and here are the links and setup instructions for the official tag and file servers! Also here's the link to my own hub which has some more quality, curated [type of content group will enjoy]! I also have [this original content that is of quality and topic you are likely to enjoy, which significant effort and time was invested in], check it out!

Only more conversationally and less of an advertisement monologue. Remember to inform rather than shill, users in general don't want to hear a really indignant argument about how wonderful it is and why they should use it, just tell people about it and if they tell you to fuck off, fuck off, and the lurkers who actually try things might come give it a look either way.

>>3624

Frankly, it wouldn't be so bad if more people used hydrus both for scraping and sharing. I don't know anything about the servers, so I don't know if using the "official" server or making more of our own would be better, and anyways I certainly don't have the bandwidth to run any type of server software myself.

>>3627

>>3628

Hey thanks anon. That was good & I'll try it.

>Okay Tumblr, thanks, we all need to be reminded because you know us evil white males forgot the rest of the world existed

Gaaaaah! Don't lump me in with that SJW shit please! But I guess that was a cringeworthy SJW-ish kind of word just the same. I'm just exploring every possibility for sucking in massive quantities of raw content.

>>3628

>Frankly, it wouldn't be so bad if more people used hydrus both for scraping and sharing. I don't know anything about the servers, so I don't know if using the "official" server or making more of our own would be better, and anyways I certainly don't have the bandwidth to run any type of server software myself.

I don't know if there are any hosting service providers that would allow you to install your own custom server software, and I think hydrus server is pretty "custom" at the moment.

I would use IPFS but I don't know how to configure it. Anyone could help me?

>>3641

Check the first 2 videos here

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmZ8Modb7dmRVEcMxunxqEy9R3qQse4E51CCNohbfLSZzw

All you need is to know is how to run the daemon, after that in hydrus go to services > manage services, click the remote tab, ipfs daemons, click add, enter a name for it , then click test credentials and see if it worked.

Just make sure the daemon is running whenever you have hydrus running if you want to use IPFS with it (for pinning, downloading via ipfs, etc.)

>>3641

hydrus help page steps you through it

https://hydrusnetwork.github.io/hydrus/help/getting_started_ipfs.html

>>3627

>you still can't fight the user tendency to gravitate towards the convenient

who says a decentralized Internet can't be convenient? IPFS is very convenient. yes it's all command-liney & shit right now. But they're designing it to be entirely transparent and look just like normal web browsing.

>will cause a lot of content creators to say "no, fuck off"

There are reasons why content creators would actually want their content copied. Youtubers like The Golden One have asked people to start mirroring their videos in case they get taken down for "hate speech" or something. Plus Youtube censors things based on what country you're in. Scraping & sharing can get around that.

piracy has been a thing since cassette tapes and VCRs. Content creators haven't fucked off yet. They've adapted with things like patreon. They will have to move to a model where people crowd-fund for fresh new content. They could still milk it for a little while afterwords by getting ad revenue off of it, but nobody will ever maintain complete and total god-like control over what they've created forever. It would be antithetical to an open and free Internet if they could.

No content creator expects to be able to rest on their laurels forever unless they're the exception that proves the rule.

>only if it's all through sharing hubs, the way to do that would be for governments to pass laws that restructure the internet so only they can run hubs and it's illegal for anyone else to run or connect to non-government hubs. For your own protection, citizen.

God I hate this train of thought: the guvmint is all powerful and they will always win and it's as inevitable as the tides & the seasons and so get used to it. They're omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. Swallow your pride, drop to your knees, and take a big gooey shot of the NSAs cum all over your face. Fuck that shit.

I'll grant that it's not enough to just think in terms of technical solutions. But spare me the fatalistic crap.

>>3638

I get you, it's a good point, I just had to nag you for your problematic language which can create a toxic imageboard environment :^)

>>3639

>I don't know if there are any hosting service providers that would allow you to install your own custom server software

There are. You can get all sorts of different hosting that lets you build not only your own stack but your choice of kernel/OS, either from a list they select or you can just upload your own homespun Linux server a lot of places, I think. What you'd probably want starting small is a VPS, as distinct from something like startlogic that serves as a stack-ready "website builder"/host.

I haven't played with hydrus server at all but my guess is that it can run on Windows Server or Linux rather than being its own kernel-to-service package. Windows Server isn't particularly good, but it's not particularly bad either, regardless of what angry GNU sysadmins say. The downside is that you need Windows Pro desktop, or at least Home Pro, I forget the cutoff, to use Windows' built-in virtual desktop thing with Windows Server…otherwise you have to mess around with TeamViewer and so on. If you have a server with WS and an admin client with WPro, you should be fine and it's pretty easy, it's basically like any other Windows with some specialized stuff and some limitations.

>>3645

>piracy has been a thing since cassette tapes and VCRs. Content creators haven't fucked off yet.

They also haven't joined underground cassette-sharing groups, for the most part, which is my point. They will stay on clearnet in general, and the public will remain there to catch the content they drop, paid or otherwise.

Besides, crowdfunding is kind of shit because it's a scammer's paradise and just simply doesn't reward legit creators as much as scammers.

>God I hate this train of thought: the guvmint is all powerful and they will always win and it's as inevitable as the tides & the seasons and so get used to it. They're omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. Swallow your pride, drop to your knees, and take a big gooey shot of the NSAs cum all over your face. Fuck that shit.

>I'll grant that it's not enough to just think in terms of technical solutions. But spare me the fatalistic crap.

No, asshole, I'm telling you that trying to force a new decentralized architecture and putting it right in everyone's faces as the new default is playing right into the hands of people who want to scaremonger and restrict internet communication. I'm saying your "fuck the system we taking over" line of thought is exactly what fucks up the chances for meaningful decentralization for the people who actually care about it. The general public is, was, and always will be the screen. There's nothing "fatalistic" about me telling you not to smash your neck repeatedly against the chopping block. It's just common sense. Unless you're going to start another retarded bloody revolution to support your ideal architecture and ensure it takes its rightful place at the head of the network, you're just giving more material to people who will fabricate excuses to fuck everyone over with. The problem is that you're trying to "win" or "lose" against governments, which for the most part do still represent the approximate issues of the vague majority of the people you represent. That same vague majority is the people you're trying to attract to achieve primacy. You're eating your own tail here; are you rebelling, or uniting? You can't unite people to rebel against themselves; the pseudoprogressives keep trying every few years with hilariously retarded results and entirely pointless results. You cannot fight the vox populi for the vox populi, and trying would only demonstrate that you don't understand the vox populi. That is the heart and soul of the problem.

>>3649

>The problem is that you're trying to "win" or "lose" against governments, which for the most part do still represent the approximate issues of the vague majority of the people you represent.

The majority doesn't give a shit what architecture the internet runs on just as long as it works. I'm not representing anyone. That's why I'm trying to find ways of appealing to peoples immediate interests in a way that coincides with my own goals. The only reason I'm even talking about it now is because I'm talking to people who give a shit about these kinds of things.

>is playing right into the hands of people who want to scaremonger and restrict internet communication

>you're just giving more material to people who will fabricate excuses to fuck everyone over with

I don't care what the majority thinks. Any plan that relies on their approval is built on quicksand because they're too easily swayed by scaremongering. Just because I'm talking about it here doesn't mean that I'm trying to convince large numbers of people through logical argument to do anything. All I trust is self interest.

>Besides, crowdfunding is kind of shit because it's a scammer's paradise and just simply doesn't reward legit creators as much as scammers.

There are right ways & wrong ways of doing everything.

>>3717

Forgot my BO trip–this is me.

>>3719

thx BO. I like the line from this anon >>3628 as a way to present hydrus to people. I've also decided to cut down on the frequency of posts to maybe once a week instead of every day like I was doing. Then I could broaden the number of boards that I post on.

>>3743

Don't worry, 4chan doesn't have /christ/

>>3743

This software is targeted at users organizing their files. It's like an improved File Manager they run locally. It doesn't go online by itself and is not part of this website's software.

To put it more simply and aptly, it's like asking if your website can opt out of Windows Explorer. It doesn't apply. Hope this helps.

>>3649

Hey anon I hope you're still lurking. I wanted to ask you a bit more about these hosting providers that let you set up your own server software. I've wanted to set up a server for hosting an eepsite on i2p. I've asked about it over on /tech/ but haven't gotten an answer yet. Do you know of any providers I could talk to?

>>3649

>The downside is that you need Windows Pro desktop, or at least Home Pro, I forget the cutoff, to use Windows' built-in virtual desktop thing with Windows Server

Remote Desktop clients exist for all versions of Windows. It's only The Remote Desktop Server which is restricted to pro; and I'm very certain it's in all editions of Windows Server.

>>3793

You can opt out of Windows Explorer though. There are other, though crappy, shells for Windows. And many programs for file management.

I do believe he's objecting to the OP's image though. And I do agree with an objection to it, but differently.

Ideally, no thread should ever be nothing but simple reposts from another.

Doing what is suggested there is toxic reposting spam that, while it may attract attention, discourages activity.

Opting out boards would be ineffective, easily bypassed, and a waste of time.

I don't think uploading to boards in such a way should ever really be supported in the first place, personally.

Even if you're reposting shit, you could just limit it to a few hand picked interesting ones, or ZIP it up somewhere.

>>3812

Literally every other provider, but try digitalocean, can build what you want from OS up.