[–]▶ No.68381>>68383 >>68385 >>68387 >>68389 >>68448 >>68486 >>68491 >>68844 >>68948 >>69085 >>69487 >>71613 >>78265 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
Why is it that, out of all the taboo kinks/themes out there, cub seemingly, and solely seems to get all the shit for the one that "goes too far"?
We got glorified depictions of rape, murder, torture, etc all over the place, and no one bats an eye, and yet somehow cub, even tame cub, always seems to be the one that sparks all the shitstorms and slander.
>Because some depict sexualized kids, anthro, feral or not, they're kids, and that's messed up
Ok, I get that, I'm not trying to say people can't find a problem with that, but why is that exclusively shamed, condemned, and the people who like/draw it get their name dragged through the mud with lies and slander, but things like graphic murder and brutal rape gets a pass? They're all fictional, neither have a victim attached, it didn't harm anyone in the making, and they're all equally taboo, so what's the difference?
>Well pedos use cub porn to groom kids into thinking sex is ok
No, no they don't. There's never been a documented record of any victims of CSA being lured in with furry porn, let alone fictional porn in general.
▶ No.68383>>68384
>>68381 (OP)
>There's never been a documented record of any victims of CSA being lured in with furry porn
There was that story about the guy who dressed a kid up in a tiger fursuit/costume and passed him around with some of his other buddies. Granted, the chargers were dropped, if I recall correctly, due to some kind of technicality.
While I am a cub-fan, I do want to say that claiming it's never been "documented" before is kind of disingenuous at best, and a falsehood at the worst. That said, fictional furry artwork of minors shouldn't be seen as real child porn as some in the twitter-sphere are putting it (with regards to Tacklebox's drama), and anyone who calls it child porn has some serious issues separating fiction from reality.
▶ No.68384
>>68383
That instance wasn't a matter of cub/furry porn being used to lure them in, so it's not an incorrect claim to make.
▶ No.68385>>68390
>>68381 (OP)
>We got glorified depictions of rape, murder, torture, etc all over the place, and no one bats an eye, and yet somehow cub, even tame cub, always seems to be the one that sparks all the shitstorms and slander.
Probably because that kind of stuff rarely, if ever, winds up in mass media.
A person being caught for murdering people in their sex dungeon and fucking the corpse isn't a "thing".
You might hear a story about it from someone, but it's not something that happens very often in real life, so it's easy to single out the one person that actually does it as an insane individual and move on.
Pedophilia is common enough that pedofags can be grouped up and labeled en masse, as well as be seen as something that could realistically happen.
You're all crib burglars and you'll all try to fuck your neighbor's kids if you even get a hint of a chance of getting away with it.
Unlike the serial killer/rapist, kiddie diddling doesn't sound as absurd to do, so it's also much easier to take seriously.
Especially when it has to do with something like children that basically everyone is hardwired to want to protect in some capacity.
Deal with it pedofag, get a good fetish.
▶ No.68387
>>68381 (OP)
Not me. If you look at the traffic Inkbunny gets, a large amount of furfags don't care.
Actual pedos like Dan Schneider creep me out.
There are just a bunch of vocal retards here that say it's horrible. Most people on /fur/ didn't give a shit until fairly recently, and there were a few shitpost threads made back in the day that came here. I bet most naysayers here are from halfchan, plebbit, or signposting for attention
For me at least, gore fetishes are far more disturbing than simple cub fetishes, especially when you can just say "he's 18 and has the ability to consent" or do what solatorobo did with Elh's age. You run into Sorites paradox (AKA Loki's wager) when you try to define what fictional body looks "underage".
Old n8 banners even acknowledged this "he's legally 18" loophole
SAGE for the 999th "cub ethics" thread
▶ No.68389>>68446 >>68449
>>68381 (OP)
>brutal rape gets a pass
It doesn't though, rape drawings cause a good drama if the artist is male, girls and anonymous artists usually got it easier though but their content is still seen as controversial, they kinda kill their chances of turning into big names in the fandom
>graphic murder
Gore fans are constantly called weirdos and mentally ill
>the people who like/draw it get their name dragged through the mud with lies and slander
Not really, the number of accusations is not much higher than the number of actual pedos, Zaush and PK and others just got caught
▶ No.68390>>68392 >>68396 >>69280
>>68385
>Probably because that kind of stuff rarely, if ever, winds up in mass media
The hell kinda hole are you living in? Every day there's a story about rapes and murders in the media, and by proxy it's something that happens very often in real life.
>You like X in fiction, so you'd do the same in real life
Ok Jack Thompson, should we go forward with banning violent video games as well? It's not that hard to get a knife and go kill someone ya know, people enjoy doing in in their video games, and it could "realistically happen".
Your logic suck and isn't mutually exclusive to any one thing, by your train of logic murder and rape are "just as easy" if not easier to do and no more "absurd" than diddling a kid you troglodyte.
▶ No.68391>>68393 >>68396 >>68412
Because you don't see murder and rape artists defending serial killers and rapists while A LOT of shota/loli/cub artists are openly pedos who support shit like child pornography and sex
Shadman and Minus8 are some examples of it, both not only draw those things, they openly support it
▶ No.68392>>68395
>>68390
>Every day there's a story about rapes and murders in the media
And the killer getting off on it?
OP was talking about murder as a fetish, not just a thing that happens.
>You like X in fiction, so you'd do the same in real life
You dense cunt, I was making an example of how pedos get grouped up because of what a couple of them get caught doing.
That's not what I personally think although I do think pedophilia is a pretty shit tier fetish regardless.
>by your train of logic
You already misunderstood me so the rest of this just goes in the trash.
▶ No.68393>>68394
>>68391
And your evidence of them or any cub artists supporting those?
▶ No.68394>>68396 >>68397 >>68400 >>68412
▶ No.68395>>68398
>>68392
>OP was talking about murder as a fetish, not just a thing that happens.
Given the overall context, it's clear OP meant murder/rape in general.
>You dense cunt, I was making an example of how pedos get grouped up because of what a couple of them get caught doing.
I wasn't referencing that sentence dipshit, I was referencing this "You're all crib burglars and you'll all try to fuck your neighbor's kids if you even get a hint of a chance of getting away with it."
I didn't misunderstand anything, and my points still stands, try a better argument.
▶ No.68396
>>68390
>proxy it's something that happens very often in real life
You realize the media will dramatize anything or find anything for a headline because they need to make AD $$$.
I also disagree with the anon before, but I'd argue murder and rape have actually decreased over the past few decades.
>>68391
>A LOT of shota/loli/cub artists are openly pedos who support shit like child pornography and sex
2 artists is a small sample size.
>>68394
Can you give me stats like a poll instead of anecdotal information from a small number of artists?
Here's a poll anyone here can answer:
http://poal.me/n073jo
▶ No.68397
>>68394
Well shit, for once someone actually backs up their claims, even still, passing a guilty verdict on an entire subsection of people based off the actions of a single person is pretty stupid. Lest be buy the idea that all gamers are closet killers because a few nutty dudes said they used an FPS to "train".
▶ No.68398>>68401
>>68395
>Given the overall context, it's clear OP meant murder/rape in general.
>The "boohoo everyone hates my shit taste in kinks" thread isn't about kinks
>I wasn't referencing that sentence dipshit, I was referencing this "You're all... with it."
Yes, that was exactly what I knew you were talking about because I can actually comprehend what the fuck I'm reading.
Now once again,
>"You're all crib burglars and you'll all try to fuck your neighbor's kids if you even get a hint of a chance of getting away with it."
Is not what I actually think and was just an example of how you faggots get lumped together even when a vast majority of you know to you keep it in your pants.
Stop being retarded, your tastes in wank material are already bad enough.
▶ No.68400
>>68394
>minus8 is apparently every cub artist
That's fallacious and you know it. I don't even like the crowd myself.
▶ No.68401
>>68398
>The "boohoo everyone hates my shit taste in kinks" thread isn't about kinks
"General" as in kinks as well.
>Is not what I actually think
If that's the case then you lead in with something along the lines of "for example", when your "example" does nothing to distinguish itself as such and matches the tone and format structure of your actual feelings, they'll bleed together. It's basic sentence structure.
Take your own advice, and try suppressing your emotions when you type stuff, you're more focused on one-uping people than forming a coherent argument.
▶ No.68402
>>68399
>"General" as in kinks as well.
So you weren't disagreeing with me at all and just wanted to point out a completely irrelevant possibility?
>you're more focused on one-uping people than forming a coherent argument.
How was I one-upping someone in my first post?
I just gave my thoughts on OP's question and then called their fetish shit because it's dumb how many threads are being made about cubfags lately.
The one-upping didn't start until you replied.
Looking at it again, I'll admit there are a few things I could've done to distinguish that bit as an exaggeration. So far all I've gotten is an understandably misguided argument and pointless poking at my post instead of anything meaningful though, which isn't helping my opinion of these godforsaken threads.
▶ No.68412>>68472
>>68391
>>68394
I don't see any support for child pornography in those caps; if anything, it's almost the opposite.
Next time try providing a source for what you're actually claiming or quit bullshitting.
▶ No.68414>>68445
I think it's notable that most of the furs who got caught with CP didn't draw cub porn. Frank Gembeck is a prime example; he drew twink types, yes, but the head-to-body proportions said they were intended to be adults.
The one and only example I've seen where a furry artist was openly supporting CP was that guy, whose name I honestly forget, who was connected with Sherly Karu and smooth-talked a bunch of people into drawing rather rape-centered cub porn. His public advocation was that creating CP should be illegal, but possessing already-made CP should not be (and, of course, he got told this was a terrible idea.)
▶ No.68445>>68496 >>68550
>>68414
That was Betawolf. He would deny openly that he was a pedo, until the big FA hack and note leak in which we saw that he bragged abut having the real thing in private conversations.
Cub fans in general are pissy, selfish and will harass those who don't like their fetish. They tend to be above the rules too, they can make callout journals and sit and no one bats an eye, the secodn the person they harass tells them to fuck off, site staff gets mad.
Shit like this is why Chris Hansen should be given a gun and told he will not be prosecuted for killing the predators he catches. Pedos don't deserve acceptance.
▶ No.68446
>>68389
>Zaush and PK and others just got caught
Uh oh, here comes the "Zosh wuz fraymed by tha esjawdubyas" defense crew.
That explains the rash of SJW videos on Youtube and all the tweets and OH WAIT none of that happens because SJWs do not give a shit about this guy. Anita has been told and she's never once made a peep about him.
▶ No.68448
>>68381 (OP)
Immaturity and guilty consciences.
People feel weird for wanting to fuck animals. That develops into self loathing. They eventually become immature little nazis who scapegoat the cub porn and point fingers, as a sort of cover for their own fetishes.
▶ No.68449>>68454 >>68473
>>68389
>Zaush and PK just got caught
Let me know when you secure convictions and it's not just tumblr rumors.
▶ No.68452
I agree with the OP, cub porn is unfairly singled out often with extreme hatred. Whereas gore/rape is looked over, any disgust is much quieter. That's about where people draw the line separating hose who will act on their fantasies: "Rape? Gore? The people that like that are insane or whatever, I just won't look at it. -- Cub? Nope! Those people are pedos that'll rape any real kid within a hundred feet!"
Maybe it is singled out because the haters have some repressed desire? It is the vocal opponents that you have to watch out for. Look at all the reports of vocal anti-sex religious leaders busted for the very thing they were proclaiming hellfire and damnation.
▶ No.68454>>68473
>>68449
Rumors are the law now. If you hate shit, just gather a personal army by making accusations instead of getting the cops involved, because OH SHIT you might have zero evidence.
Hashtag Changethechannel...
▶ No.68472
>>68412
that was an example about pedophile acts and intentions irl, a child pornography example is Eevee(pk boyfriend) supporting it
▶ No.68473>>68481 >>68485
>>68449
>>68454
>zero evidence
>just tumblr rumors
the talks where Marl ask a 15 year old to fuck his dog are leaked in kiwi farms, he even comfirmed it by apologizing later, plus the fact PK, Eevee and her don't even tried to refute those claims instead they fucking close all their accounts and sites instantly
▶ No.68481
▶ No.68485>>68538
>>68473
Well then I'm sure you'll secure a conviction in no time.
▶ No.68486
>>68381 (OP)
Because women
▶ No.68489>>68490 >>68525
This CP drama on twitter is going waaaaay too far.
God forbid an artist uses reference of a real pupper for one of their characters.
▶ No.68490
>>68489
>asking to use a dog likeness
Dogs of a specific breed look identical, this is retarded
▶ No.68491>>68510
>>68381 (OP)
>Well pedos use cub porn to groom kids into thinking sex is ok
Why is this even considered a sound argument to begin with? You can use all sorts of things for nefarious purposes despite not being intended for such. You can use dolls and knives to teach people to stab.
All the reeing about Zaush and Tacklebawx is fucking stupid. Its some kind of extreme witchhunt to ruin people's lives over cartoons. Liking cartoons doesn't even necessarily mean said people like the thing in real life. Weebs figured this shit out decades ago. I don't know why furries are so dense.
▶ No.68496>>68525
>>68445
Why don’t pedos deserve acceptance? At least the non-criminal ones. I think we should be accepting of all people, because we’re all human beings. Hate the sin, not the sinner. So those pedophiles that have the self-control not to act on the impulses they were born with should by all means be accepted. Those that do unfortunately act on them, or feel they are at risk of acting on them, should receive help to overcome them and develop greater self-control.
You didn’t say it, so much as imply it, but people in this Twitter drama seriously call for the deaths of those artists, because they might be attracted to children, (and by extension calling for the deaths of pedophiles in general), and it really sickens me.
▶ No.68510>>68513 >>68533 >>68540 >>68550
>>68491
Wasn't Zaush ousted as actually looking at CP, though?
▶ No.68513
>>68510
No. And this is why cancer on twitter spreads so easily.
▶ No.68517>>68530
Because people have a mentality to protect children(minors) from all things bad and illegal.
>Children shouldn't be exposed to sex until they're ready.
Puberty is the age when children become sexually active. It would be better in the US and many other countries if children weren't treated as objects to be sheltered and hidden away from the dangers or shock of the real world.
Yes, human beings have sex. There is nothing morally wrong with a child wanting sex at the age of maturity or wanting to seek it out.
>But they're children, and they shouldn't be getting access to pornography or having sex until legally able.
The number of teen pregnancies beg to differ. Children who have reached sexual maturity should be taught about sex, abstinance, contraception, and abortion; mothers should also be able to have ready access to abortive care and contraception in their country.
>artists that draw cub or loli are weirdos.
Would you rather they draw art depicting rape or murder?
Consenting fictional characters that are underage having sex is somehow worse?
▶ No.68525>>68534
>>68489
Dogs look nearly identical so yeah this is retarded. Also why the fuss about it being someone's pet? Furfags refurence & trace stock photos of animals for their porn, why is pet ownership any different?
>>68496
Good post but sadly that'll never happen, if some pedo actually does seek out help such as psychiatry the doc will most likely report them to the police. This is the same reason drug addicts won't seek help.
▶ No.68530
>>68517
>But they're children, and they shouldn't be getting access to pornography or having sex until legally able.
>The number of teen pregnancies beg to differ.
What kind of fucking crazy logic is that?
Teen pragnancies are more dangerous than fully adult pregnancy with far more hypertension, preeclampsia and premarture birth cases
Also the fact that a child needs constant attention from the mother, a huge ammount of time that last until the early teenager years to be mentally healthy, Teenagers need to study and sociabilize building their social and professional lives so they simply can't give up this time to another, a teenager would have to sacrifice their best chance to build a career and social circles for the sake of their own child future,acomplished adults don't face this sacrifice because they already build their base.
▶ No.68533
>>68510
Nope, that was a false rumor because some people didn't recognize the porn actors in his screencaps. All the porn images were of adult actors it turned out
▶ No.68534>>68542
>>68525
I'd be open to having someone use a likeness of my dog, she's beautiful.
▶ No.68538>>68824
>>68485
This
It's been weeks since this was revealed and there is even real pictures of Marl going on the Kiwifarms thread and I haven't seen the police being involved when it's actually a good moment to act with that conversation.
There is one problem
PK deleted the floraverse discord, those faggots would say all those caps of Marl confirming the conversation were faked.
What goes then?
▶ No.68540>>68543 >>69123
>>68510
Nope
He was saying the truth, in fact those images were on google, from porn actors that have bodies of teenagers
Expect in the future to be illegal produce porn of girls that have the body of a teen
▶ No.68542
▶ No.68543
>>68540
>Expect in the future to be illegal produce porn of girls that have the body of a teen
It;s already a reality here, even adults wearing school uniform is legally considered cp
Such cases
▶ No.68550
>>68445
>Cub fans in general are pissy, selfish and will harass those who don't like their fetish. They tend to be above the rules too, they can make callout journals and sit and no one bats an eye, the secodn the person they harass tells them to fuck off, site staff gets mad
As a cub fan with an IB account, I don't see this in everyone. There are a handful of cub nuts who are like this, though, and they spam their whiny shit absolutely everywhere.
>>68510
As others said, no. The porn actress was IDed, and she looks like a teen. NOT like a pre-teen, incidentally. Zaush is most assuredly drawing teen characters, but he's not referencing actual CP.
Do we have any actual proof that cub porn is used to groom kids? I don't doubt that it's a possibility, but I haven't seen any actual evidence that someone has been caught doing this. Betawolf was really THE example of a cub porn lover (not an artist, admittedly) who was into the real thing. Again, most of the furs who were discovered to be downloading CP were not drawing cub porn, and from what I recall, most weren't connected with cub stuff at all-- if they did, it must have been private. That's not to say pedos don't look at cub, but it doesn't seem to be true that drawing or faving cub = molester/CP enthusiast.
▶ No.68553>>68556
This debate never ceases to amaze me. Both sides argue and nothing really gets resolved, but it is very funny and entertaining to watch.
▶ No.68556
>>68553
It's a debate that boils down to the feelings of moral crusaders melting down over the contents of a drawing, of course nothing's gonna be resolved, at it's core it's retarded that it's even an issue people get this worked up over in the first place.
▶ No.68568>>68572 >>68611 >>69117
The argument that CP or "FCP" increases the rate of child abuse is tenuous at best. Studies performed are kind of all over the place, and are likely prone to faults because functionally no pedophile is willing to come forward in a hyper-religious sex-negative culture (where even the banner children of sex-positivity as a political movement have a tendency to demonize and dehumanize someone over actions they haven't actually performed).
It actually shares a lot of similarities with whether violent video games increase violence from children. The studies for those are all over the place, as well, and for the most part it all suggests that there is way too much going into it that we can't just boil it down to one thing; my interpretation of the data we've seen is that we should more readily blame poor parenting on most things.
Here's what we know:
Not all pedophiles are child sexual abusers. Just as a lot of homosexuals once repressed their desires due to the attached stigma, a lot of pedophiles don't act upon their desires.
Not all child sexual abusers are pedophiles. There is a huge subset of rape and abusive activities that aren't inherently about performing the act, but displaying a position of power. If we wiped out all of the pedophiles from the world, children would still be sexually abused (at a rate that we don't know because no one wants to allege being a pedophile).
For example, a somewhat recent case I read about involved a teenaged boy whom was being groomed into some sort of actual religious cult; he was shamed about his body and his bodily desires, and was actually branded with a hot iron when he was younger. As he was discovering masturbation and his urges, his mother got increasingly angry with him, reaching the point of threatening to lock him in a chastity to teach him a lesson. This is sexual abuse to a child, and is completely unrooted in pedophilia.
So when you take those two above immutable facts, we reach the conclusion that child sexual abuse is a bad thing that can be committed by anyone, but pedophiles are put under scrutiny because of something that "might" occur. Some researchers have concluded that CP/FCP does increase the chance at being a sexual predator, while others have concluded there isn't even a correlation between the two. Who do we trust? Well.. Probably, neither of them, because of the heavy stigma associated to any surveys that require self-reporting.
There are certainly a couple of interesting questions we can ask, though. What percentage of the male population is turned on by the underaged? The only reports I can find on this suggest that men hooked up to a device to measure arousal saw notable reactions from up to 50% of men. What portion of sexual predators are inherently pedophiles? One study suggested 20%, but another cites that up to 76% of people arrested for possession have also abused a child. Maybe the scariest part of all of this is that in a decent amount of time searching, I never found a functionally solid research article at its source; it was always hearsay. Articles from Cracked linking to articles from Washington Post linking to an apparent court hearing where a couple of people stated supposed facts with no actual citations.
As a closing thought: There's no solid correlation between violent video games and violent activities. While there is seen an increase of aggression in children who play several hours of violent video games, there is no link that it's enough of an increase in aggression with lasting enough effects to lead to greater violence - and, in fact, the quantity of the video games being the primary source suggests that it's not related to video games at all, but rather the lack of physical activity leading to restless energy.
It's all very interesting, but ultimately it mostly falls under the same thing that all other politically-charged controversies do: A bunch of paid off researchers giving vague facts to confirm people pushing a separate agenda.
▶ No.68572>>68610 >>68611
>>68568
I didn't even really touch on my feelings on the matter because I got too railroaded in my own thoughts.
I think there's nothing even inherently wrong with such an age difference, but we live in a society where sexual activities have such a weirdly attached stigma. You have the religious folk saying that you can't nut even if it's Jesus riding your dick, and then you have rabid post-modern feminism shaming men and accusing them over rape for even more mild advances. It's a world of landmines when it comes to sex, and even being abstinent isn't a perfect defense.
In a theoretical world where sexual activities have no stigma, and we didn't have any risk of STDs, with perfect contraception... Maybe we could say the child could consent? Incidentally, this is precisely where cub is placed. Maybe not the perfect contraception part but you can handwave that away pretty easily as it's fantasy. But because there are very real, tangible consequences in the real world, some of which are biological, others which are entirely fabricated by society, introducing someone to these activities before they have proper knowledge or decision making is actually abusive. If we consider it that way, the Age of Consent being 16-18 can fail, because 18 year olds still make serious mistakes. Hell, people in their 30s can still make these mistakes.
So ultimately I have the firm opinion that the point of the age of consent isn't supposed to be some sort of moral guideline but a catch-all to cover all cases and maximize everyone's safety. I think, in theory, a 13 year old can consent, in the same way that a 23 year old can be too fucking stupid to consent, but I shudder to think of the logistical implications of having a court tediously go over each individual case of sexual activities to decide if proper consent was obtained. I consider the blanket age of consent to be a necessity, then, as it takes away a lot of uncertainty.
In the case of CP, its possession and distribution encourages the production of it, which is basic supply and demand - where the production of it involves an already pre-described illegal activity. In this case, possession and distribution would be acting as an accomplice, I suppose? Even if CP were legal, I'm sure you could still get in trouble under the case of being an accomplice.
But.. cub is fiction, and possession/distribution encourages the production of putting lines on paper.
My conclusion: People are just batshit insane.
▶ No.68576>>68577
Such hubris has man to intrude on God's domain; to ascribe rights and morals and values to its own crude artifices, built from nothing more than arbitrary markings on a page, or from the state of certain transistors in circuitry.
Blasphemers.
▶ No.68577
>>68576
On the subject of God's domain, I find it funny these people will kick and scream over an artist doing something that is only vaguely related to cubs, which isn't in the Ten Commandments, however will happily applaud and masturbate to Zaush's countless images of cuckoldry, which is immediately breaking the commandment of faithfulness.
▶ No.68610>>68619 >>68624 >>68890
>>68572
>I think there's nothing even inherently wrong with such an age difference, but we live in a society where sexual activities have such a weirdly attached stigma. You have the religious folk saying that you can't nut even if it's Jesus riding your dick, and then you have rabid post-modern feminism shaming men and accusing them over rape for even more mild advances. It's a world of landmines when it comes to sex, and even being abstinent isn't a perfect defense.
Don't worry, some religious folks agree with your beliefs on fucking 9 year olds
▶ No.68611>>68624
>>68568
>>68572
I have to say that these really are a couple of thoughtful, level-headed posts here. I don't have much to say myself (so I'll sage), but it's encouraging to see stuff like this on this board.
▶ No.68619
>>68610
And since they are the winning demographic, we can do everything sexually soon. At least as guys.
▶ No.68624
>>68611
I try, I enjoy perhaps way too much rambling on about my thoughts and trying to understand various problems. I know I'm not perfect and that a lot of people will disagree with me, which I also love to hear if it's constructive, but discussions on the Internet tend to be kind of... lackluster, these days. The Reddit mentality of "downvote = disagree" means that there has to be some amount of hivemind agreement for any opinion to surface whatsoever.
In this case, I think it's level-headed only in that I'm mostly just stating we don't really know enough to form a scientifically-based consensus. That might mean it's in favour of fictional stuff being negligible, simply because of the sheer number of factors going into what makes a sexual predator being high enough that picking out specifically one by itself is scapegoating.
It's frustrating trying to get a real answer, though. I don't suggest googling for CP studies like I did unless you want to be put on a list (like I presumably now am, but I probably have been for a decade) but you'll get "facts" siding with literally every possible side you could take on the subject. I think the only thing that has really reached a consensus is that pedophilia is rooted in the brain in the same way as homosexuality, so it's either a natural sexual urge, or both are a mental illness.
>>68610
To play devil's advocate, as I understand, it's mostly just child marriage that is considered acceptable from your implicated religious folk. Not that I expect them to precisely follow the rules when they're going so far, but I think there's something about no penetration until a certain post-pubescent age is reached.
As far as the meme of catholic priests, I would say that's just incidental in that anyone can be a sexual predator; and perhaps pastors and priests would be occupied by the type of man who seek positions of power and thus would feel vindicated in their actions. Just a guess, though - nothing to back either of those up.
▶ No.68824
>>68538
I know I'm extremely late to respond to this, but Marl's logs were from when he lived in a different state. He got reported to the FBI, not the local police precinct. Those investigations take weeks to months, so even if they could secure a conviction, they have to go subpoena Google, wait for a response, etc. And that's only if the victim herself also filed a report, which nobody has heard any word from.
▶ No.68844
>>68381 (OP)
Because, until you definitely prove fictional porn does not "make" people want to rape real children, kub will be stigmatized.
You can start.
▶ No.68890>>68900
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>68610
Way to strawman, faggot. The problem isn't age but the ability to understand and handle sex, 18 doesn't automatically make you understand and able to have to sex.
Is there really a difference between an 18 y/o having sex with a 30 y/o vs. a 17 and 364 days y/o having sex with a 30 y/o? Does being a day older magically make them fully able to grasp the understandings and consequences of sex? No. Ok, so what about a 17 years and 363 days old person having sex with a 30 y/o? What about a day even less? Where exactly is the line?
If you want to be a "maturity" faggot then to be logically consistent with your view that means we should actually raise the age of consent, because your brain isn't fully developed until you're ~25.
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051
Way to ruin fun, you unbelievable faggot.
▶ No.68900
>>68890
It's hard to tell the intention of the post but I didn't take it to mean that I was being compared to what they thought were barbaric religious folks - I took it to be a jab at Islamic faith which has child and forced marriages.
If anything I think it highlights how sex is such a culturally loaded problem when it probably really shouldn't be. I agree that it's a maturity thing but logistically ruling on a maturity thing would be nigh impossible, so I agree with the overall blanket age of consent law.
Hypothetically speaking; if a child were to have sex with an older person, and the child at the time consented to the best of their ability, with there being no or minimal risk of consequences (conception, diseases, etc), does it actually have any long-lasting psychological damage to the child if society weren't pressuring the child about how wrong it is? I think there is some merit in maintaining sexual activities to be held between loved ones, but outside of that I think society's needless judgmental attitudes inflict the majority of any psychological suffering a child receives regarding sexual conduct.
▶ No.68909>>68983
I tried unsuccessfully to debate with this bitch about the merits of art, even if it depicts something that people find disgusting.
Apparently even sympathizing with people who sexualize children can land you in hot water.
>"I think anyone who has sex with kids should die."
But it's not real, it's fiction.
>"It's wrong for people to look at that."
That's just the current viewpiont, that can change.
>"I just think that anyone who looks at that stuff or wants to share it should be killed."
Are you saying that people shouldn't draw certain things because it's obscene?
>"yes, because it's illegal."
They don't (or refuse to) see the bigger picture. What affects one person can be used to affect everyone else. You will eventually have to tread carefully about what you do, even if it isn't real, because it still "hurts" folks.
Freedom of expression -1
▶ No.68922>>68926
>place talks against doxing and drama and shitposting in the rules
>literally a whole thread of it and people attacking each other over morality in art
monkaS
It seemed like it had an idea of what it was doing for the first thirty seconds of looking at it...
▶ No.68926
>>68922
I don't think you know what doxing and shitposting is, bud.
▶ No.68948
>>68381 (OP)
>not knowing human psychology
humans are sheepish and are raised to like rape and guro at a young age from horror movies and creepypasta, therefore they have a higher tolerance for it.
humans are raised from a young age to hate pedophilia of any type, therefore, that's what humans know.
god forbid humans try anything new or use actual logic, they just follow the same bullshit patterns that were planted in their minds as kids.
▶ No.68983>>68992
>>68909
Gotta love people hiding behind freedom of expression to argure loli/shota/cub. It reminds me of "muh second amendment.
▶ No.68991>>69014
Personally I'm just sick of how mainstream cub has become among furries, to the point where people don't even fucking recognize it anymore. "Cub" is probably the most underutilized tag on e621 and putting it on your blacklist does very little to filter out underage images.
What's more, attempting to tag things cub will more of than not result in its immediate removal along with the dumbest excuses:
>He looks 15!
>But he has a big dick
>I don't care if the proportions are obviously closer to a child's than an adult's, the canon age of this character is 30
>It's simply not cub, no debate allowed
If they've got the morphology and size of someone who's under 18, it's fucking cub according to the tag's own definition. You can't just slap giant genitals on and expect that to change everything. I can't tell if people legitimately don't understand what the definition is, or if they're so paranoid about being called pedophiles that they'll defend every questionable image as "mature" to give themselves plausible deniability. It's infuriating because not a single other fetish gets this kind of slippery leeway, except possibly rape; when was the last time gore, scat, watersports, or any other controversial kink got brushed aside with "oh it isn't really like that".
I don't really care if cub exists per se because there's an ongoing demand for it, and there's nothing I can do to stop people jerking off to things they like. However this constant bullshit being pushed about how cub imagery is not weird or different or in any way alternative compared to standard furshit needs to stop, if nothing but for the sake of people who want to fap to adults without being interrupted by mistagged children.
▶ No.68992>>69032
>>68983
Wow, what a spicy take. Retard who hates 2nd amendment also hates 1st - who could have guessed?
▶ No.69014>>69034 >>69036 >>69086
>>68991
I feel your pain (somewhat, maybe theoretically). What worries me, is the sheer rise of the type of drawings that attempt to make children (human or not) to be attractive. It's either weird people are born in larger numbers, or there is some bullshit conspiracy to push for acceptance (of drawings at least).
Not sure if that is bad or good, just noticing a trend.
▶ No.69032>>69033
>>68992
Because reasonable limits and boundries are a bad thing.
▶ No.69033>>69090
>>69032
When said "limits and boundaries" pertain to what amounts to thoughts and ideas, yes, it's a bad thing to basically thought police.
▶ No.69034>>69065
>>69014
As much as I love cub, my time on /pol/ tells me that such degenerate trends are the work of the jew to undermine the west. You can indulge in it if you want, but your moral duty to prevent total degeneracy from spreading
▶ No.69036
>>69014
>rise
Yeah, I'd like to see some evidence for that, if you don't mind. If anything, what I'm noticing is people becoming more vocal against it.
▶ No.69065
>>69034
>going to /pol/
Throw yourself in the trash.
>cub is a jew conspiracy
Literally everything is a jewish conspiracy according to you retards. Fun is a jewish conspiracy, furries are a jewish conspiracy, this post is a jewish conspiracy, the shit I took 5 minutes ago was a jewish conspiracy; I'm out of toilet paper. Fucking jews.
>moral duty
Nice spooks, faggot.
▶ No.69085
>>68381 (OP)
people love a good outrage OP, basic beings that live their lives for lust and immediate pleasure love nothing more than a good old classic public execution, pedophilia being the "boogeyman" of the current global gynocratic system simply gives these people an outlet for their inner savagery, which manifests in that vitriol that you describe.
murder, blood, war, gore, death, all are publicly available on TV and clearnet internet, but a pretty 8 year olds cunny or a little boys rear is forbidden territory, well, unless its in a war situation where said boy is running for his dear life away from bomb blasts, in which case its OK simply because dozens are dying in the back, so its not porn its just a document.
hypocrisy is the bread & butter of the world, and in this fandom, said hypocrisy is passed through the enhancing catalyst of mental illness, exponentially multiplying the retardation of everyone involved. within the confines of the fandom, cub is the perfect bully victim, its a victim that cannot defend itself without automatically looking bad.
hope that cleared your doubts OP
▶ No.69086>>69116
>>69014
>push for acceptance
it was widely accepted in the past, only when women took over every aspect of life and men became mangina soyboys it became widely vilified. They gotta keep the value of their pussies up or else the pussy market crashes and they lose their reign over men, who are the only ones capable of doing shit to keep the infrastructure of civilization up.
▶ No.69090>>69093 >>69110 >>69117 >>69141 >>69153
>>69033
Except when those thoughts and ideas are from people who have a tendency to act on them. It's like how people were surprised that crazy racist, Robert Mugabe, turned the richest country in Africa to a shit hole with in years of ruling it.
When a pedophile who has tonnes of loli and shota porn rapes a child, you DON'T blame the porn feeding his fantasy?
▶ No.69093>>69098
>>69090
>blaming digital information
can you go be stupid somewhere else?
▶ No.69098
>>69093
Dodging the question.
▶ No.69110
>>69090
And who are these people who act on it exactly, random weebs and furfags with drawings? Not likely. A grand majority child rape/exploitation cases come from members within the same family and/or close communities/neighbors. You're assuming the same people who like bug eyed anime blob lolis/shota and anthro/feral animal cubs, even those who like said things for the fact that they're fictional/fantasy, like and pray on actual children by proxy for no other reason than associative assumptions.
And before you say it, yes, i'm aware there are a few cases where people with loli/shota got caught with real CP/raped a kid, but to say everyone in that subsection is guilty of/prone to the same crime because a couple of dudes fucked up is idiotic, should we ban all film because multiple murders/thieves/rapists based their actions off movies? Should we do the same for vidya? Murders have cited them in the past? If you believe one form of fiction creates a monster and should be censored/banned, then they all need to be censored/banned, by your own logic they're all guilty of the same crime, so no cherrypicking.
And no, child rapist don't jump from anime/furry porn to full blown child rape, they go from actual CP/a lust for actual children to rape, because they were already screwed up, the anime/furry porn didn't create or foster the monster, it just gave em something else to fap too, removing/banning it doesn't suddenly make them "normal".
What/who I do blame is the relative that likely diddled them as a child and fucked em up mentally, turning them into the same monster and perpetuating that harmful cycle.
TL;DR, it's not the fictional content that creates the monsters, nor does it feed their actions, so no, banning it doesn't "make the problem go away", nor does it fix anything.
▶ No.69116
▶ No.69117>>69146
>>69090
I talked about this earlier here >>68568
In short, it's a very uncertain and unproven link to suggest that child porn leads to more child abuse and all scientific studies have shown that at the very least there is far more going into the cases of child abuse than such a simple sequence of events. What we should be asking is if FCP consumers go on to become child abusers, or if child abusers go on to seek FCP? We also very certainly need to control for the cases of child abuse that is actually unrelated to pedophilia.
By the way, evidence leans towards the latter, given that a lot of countries where restrictions on CP and FCP were loosened has seen a decline in child abuse cases.
▶ No.69123
>>68540
Wasn't there some scandal in Australia (iirc) where porn stars weren't allowed to have A cup breasts, because that's too similar to underage girls?
▶ No.69141
>>69090
>Following the effects of a new law in the Czech Republic that allowed pornography to a society previously having forbidden it allowed us to monitor the change in sex related crime that followed the change. As found in all other countries in which the phenomenon has been studied, rape and other sex crimes did not increase.
>Of particular note is that this country, like Denmark and Japan, had a prolonged interval during which possession of child pornography was not illegal and, like those other countries, showed a significant decrease in the incidence of child sex abuse.
▶ No.69146>>69148 >>69157 >>69204 >>69271
>>69117
>scientific studies
why do you even bring this up? there are scientific studies for both sides and people STILL act like it was a religion, they believe in the studies of one side while throwing the studies of the other side in the furnace, metaphorically of course.
▶ No.69148>>69149
>>69146
Yeah, let's just talk about what we feel is true instead.
▶ No.69149
>>69148
dont you see its the same thing in this case?
you haven't read the study, neither has anybody else. they choose to believe in it because it fits their agenda/feelings and it makes them feel better about it
>"le science xD" backs me up! i cant be wrong!
▶ No.69153
>>69090
>When a pedophile
You mean if, not when.
▶ No.69157>>69171 >>69178
>>69146
Can you give an example of a study showing a causal link from increase of porn viewing to the increase of child rape/abuse? There are studies showing correlation between child porn viewing and child sex crime, but what does that prove? Of course people who diddle kids also watch child porn.
▶ No.69171>>69176 >>69181
>>69157
Stop being retarded. Telling pedophiles that their sick lifestyle is cute and acceptable is what enables them to act. If everyone treated it like the reprehensible thing it is then they would seek help for their disease, they wouldn't lose themselves in a false world of yes men and encouragement.
▶ No.69176
>>69171
Stop dodging arguments and take your own advice, drawings don't "enable" nor do they create pedos. Pedos, (and I mean actual "lusting after/praying on real children" pedos, not the misused catch-all buzzword you sling on artists/content consumers you disagree with), already had those feelings towards kids long before they may or may not have discovered loli/shota/cub porn, them seeing it doesn't do any more or less to "fuel" their desires, especially when most have a large stash of actual CP already.
And believe it or not, the people looking at these cartoon characters are doing such specifically because they're cartoon characters, ever think of that?
▶ No.69178>>69192
>>69157
i can give you a study that proves harm caused from child/adult relationships comes from environment and society, the Rind study, but you'd just call it bollocks anyway.
▶ No.69181>>69183
>>69171
Nobody molests kids thinking it's a "cute and acceptable" thing to do, stupid. They know it's fucked up. But it's their wiring--you can't un-pedo yourself if that's the way you're wired once the sexual cement dries, so to speak.
You gain nothing by demonizing even legitimate pedophilia. Stigmatizing it pushes them and their urges underground, where they fester and grow. Treating it like something that's not to be ashamed of (as we should, because there is ZERO benefit (you compensating for your low self-esteem by shitting on someone you deem inferior doesn't count) in shaming someone for something they can't control), but like any other illness that needs treatment, THAT is how you get pedos to want to seek help.
▶ No.69183>>69191
>>69181
>it's a "cute and acceptable" thing to do
but it is
>molests
you're already reprogrammed to believe its bad, so arguing with you is pointless, like trying to prove a religious person their god/prophet is the wrong one
▶ No.69190
>cub artist finds out I dislike cub
>callout journals, insults, lies because they think me not liking their shit is violating the first amendment
>block them and all their fans
Brought it on themselves or being a crying faggot. I'm the intolerant one? This bitch is the one making shit up and turning people against me because I don't like what they like. I hope they die of cancer. Their fans have zero excuse to pull the "well I didn't know they had an issue", they posted fucking JOURNALS which hit watcher inboxes. You wanna talk liars... no I don't need or want their fanboys watching my account, fuck them.
Of course they played pretend victim when I called them right back for their shit.
Again, I hope this person dies of fucking painful, untreatable cancer. Miserable shits like this should suffer as much as they make other suffer over non-issues.
▶ No.69191>>69196
>>69183
it IS bad, you dub motherfucker!
Oh I forgot, this fandom thinks rape of all kind is okay, why should small children be an exception? Not like an adult with brains will ever consent to fuck you.
▶ No.69192>>69196
>>69178
knowing how many conservatives are into this shit, and how conservatives are good at ignoring any facts they don't like, that's a given.
▶ No.69196>>69200
>>69191
>rape
>bad
>>69192
you just couldn't help yourself could you? you just had to bring your salty ass /pol/shit here
>my retarded side of the 2party politics is the right side xDD
>>>reddit
▶ No.69200>>69227
>>69196
How can someone be this retarded.
▶ No.69204>>69227
I don't really know how this thread got derailed so much, but good job I guess.
>>69146
I understand what you mean, and I kind of agree. That's actually the point I was making - all of our studies are conflicting enough that it shows we don't know what's going on there, which especially suggests that it's too complicated to make a reductionist argument suggesting that all it takes is pornography to incite someone into sexually abusing a child. The truth is, there are a lot more factors going into it...
But the evidence that we have, which is cold hard facts about cause and effect, suggests that access to fictional child pornography lends to a decrease of active child sexual abuse cases.
Considering the rest of the thread, I'm not particularly inclined to take your arguments in good faith, but I felt I should posit that my point actually meets yours, if you were so inclined to read what I originally posted instead of memeing with a dumb picture.
▶ No.69207
▶ No.69227>>69237
>>69204
>suggests that access to fictional child pornography lends to a decrease of active child sexual abuse cases.
i agre, but i still believe adult/child relationships are possible and positive if allowed to take place naturally
>>69200
care to elaborate, or do you think that an appeal to majority is an argument?
▶ No.69237>>69256
>>69227
>i still believe adult/child relationships are possible and positive if allowed to take place naturally
That's where things get kind of messy with human nature. I don't disagree with you, in that I think in theory we could have healthy relationships like that, but practically speaking there are a whole lot of problems with it, particularly in that there's always going to be the type of adults who seek those relationships specifically as a source of power and abuse, and this creates an unhealthy relationship in precisely the same way it would with anyone involved in such an archetype, except it's even worse for children because they have even less autonomy to seek outside help than an adult would have, and most adults are very incapable of escaping abusive relationships in the first place.
I think first before messing with anything at all, we should fix the cultural issue of sexual exploration being something that's actively ignored or discouraged. It should be considered natural that a child wants to explore themselves, not the devil's handiwork or something along those lines. I'm not sure if that's something that we could really even attain, though.
▶ No.69256>>69264
>>69237
> I'm not sure if that's something that we could really even attain, though.
not under the gynocracy. the vaginas don't want to lose their only real in-born value.
▶ No.69264>>69272
>>69256
You also have to realize that:
>sexual exploration being something that's actively ignored or discouraged.
Is conterintuitive and spawns all sorts of degeneracy.
And society is trending toward people reaching autonomy and maturity later in life, not earlier. For example, the current university trend is pushing for people to not be responsible for themselves until their early 20's, compared to having your own home and wife at 18-20 in my grandparent's day. People typically aren't accomplishing that (ownership, not renting) until nearly a decade later now.
▶ No.69271
▶ No.69272
>>69264
you can blame the debt economy and womens equal rights but-not-equal-responsibilities movement for that, and i don't want to sound like one of those beardy soyboys who aren't capable of expressing emotions that aren't unidimensional emojis, but good job white people, you CUCKED yourselves (and the world) to death because you didn't have the foresight to look 50 years into the future and see the consequences of giving a demographic group that is not mentally, physically, and emotionally equal to men, the same rights as said men.
we didn't pass the "shit test"
▶ No.69280>>69285
>>68390
>Ok Jack Thompson, should we go forward with banning violent video games as well?
sure why not
▶ No.69285>>69307
>>69280
should ban assault Vans too now since an incel just drove one through a sidewalk murdering 10 people. Don't you see? cars cause vehicular violence! BAN VEHICLES.
▶ No.69307>>69314 >>69321 >>69329 >>69334
>>69285
Vans have a purpose, to move goods and people.
Video games are just mindless toys, guns are only meant to kill, and cub porn is just child rape lite edition.
▶ No.69314
>>69307
video games can be used for training; guns are for self-defense, hunting, cutting trees, calling out for help during SOS; cub porn is for admiring artistic quality and fapping. Shoot yourself, SJW cunt.
▶ No.69329
>>69307
I've never seen a post so autistic.
▶ No.69334>>69335
>>69307
People who can't tell the difference between a fictional drawing and a non-fictional action need to be put down.
▶ No.69335
>>69334
that is pretty different from saying "drawings of guns cause shootings HURRRRR" you retard.
▶ No.69338>>69341 >>69343 >>69344 >>69358 >>69366 >>69421 >>69435
Saging this. If you want to discuss cub, do it in the cub thread. There is no discussion going on here. This is some autistic "see who can repeat themselves the most" fight and this is not the place for it.
▶ No.69341>>69455
>>69338
>saging
It's called bumplocking you cuckchan immigrant.
▶ No.69343>>69455
>>69338
There was some decent discussion before some autist derailed it. I disagree with this kind of moderation - especially with the board so slow, what difference does it make for a thread to get shitposted to its maximum?
This comes off as "I don't like the subject matter, therefore I want it gone"
▶ No.69344>>69455
>>69338
this is why your board is dead
▶ No.69353>>69357 >>69389
EVERY THREAD'S GETTING BUMPLOCKED
BASED VOLUNTEERBRO REPPING THE NEWFAGS
▶ No.69357>>69455
>>69353
>defending rulecucks
you're pathetic
▶ No.69358>>69455
>>69338
>saging
It's an anchor you retard.
▶ No.69366>>69369 >>69455
>>69338
Are you for real? The cub thread is for people who like cub; nobody else is going to bother going in there. A thread like this invites discussion from both sides. If you're upset that it became so heavily derailed why the fuck don't you just delete the shitflinging instead of bumplocking the entire thread?
>Saging this
Oh so you're just literally retarded then, good to know
▶ No.69369>>69455
>>69366
because he's a rulecuck who doesn't care about having a quality board, he only cares about the endorphin release of applying authority, feels good doesn't it?
▶ No.69389>>69455
/furry/ used to be pretty big on 8chan before the spambot spooked most people away. /fur/ will never grow as big with bullshit moderation like this.
I rarely even post here due to the lack of traffic. I never know what I can and cannot post due to ambiguity in the bullshit rules. After I make a few posts here, Buzzmod decides to delete all images from my IP (including every thread outside of here). No reason given.
>>69353
Hi buzzmod
▶ No.69421>>69455
>>69338
>the absolute state of this board's moderation
▶ No.69435>>69455
>>69338
You suck ass, your moderation is shit. Buzz off, faggot.
▶ No.69455>>69457 >>69514 >>69795
>>69344
>>69357
>>69369
Samefag
>>69435
>>69421
>>69389
>>69366
>>69358
>>69343
>>69341
Waaah, waah waaaaahhhhh :'( We should be able to defend our kid fucking! Waaaaaahhh!
▶ No.69457
>>69455
so you object to this thread because of its topic and because you, personally, don't like it. Not because it breaks the rules.
case in point. you're a faggot.
▶ No.69487
>>68381 (OP)
People don't understand that taboo porn like guro and cub exist because people get off to the IDEA of it, not actually doing it in real life
The whole point of cub is that you DON'T grow into pedophilia because you have a substitute for it
▶ No.69514
>>69455
I'm anti-cub you reactionary autist. Just because you don't like one side of the debate doesn't give you justification to shut the whole thing down like an Orwellian cuntlord.
I hope your fragile ego leads to an early suicide.
▶ No.69795
>>69455
Hi buzz. Why don't you take a step back from the computer for a while, I'm sure the board would do much better
▶ No.71613
>>68381 (OP)
Most normies are part of the problem and as such they need a scapegoat to blame all their life's mistakes and lack of success on. Once they became aware that the devil isn't real, the only source they could pinpoint blame onto was pedophiles. Pedos are usually very nonviolent people so it's clear they won't fight back to bullies.
▶ No.78265
>>68381 (OP)
Aren't there cub threads running right now?
What kind of content is considered "crossing the line". You mean like toddlercon?