/fit/ - Fitness, Health, Exercise, Dieting, etc

It's hormonal, and you're going to have to go against the grain and eat mostly carbs and a lot less fat. (Do you think Chinese guy did keto? No, he probably ate rice and vegetables like every other East Asian.) I'm not saying you should eat rice. Actually, you'll do better if you get most carbs from fruit. Models don't have lots of fat on their bodies, so what should you do? That's right. Eat less fat. The less you eat, the less available to store on your belly. What little fat you do allow yourself to eat should mostly come from coconut oil, dairy, and chocolate.

When you eat more carbs you'll pump out more of the antistress hormones that make you look like Chinese guy. You need high levels of pregnenolone and low levels of cortisol. Cortisol will put the fat on your waist. Models have low stress phenotypes. Cortisol, adrenaline, and estrogen are the major stress hormones. Vitamins A, D, E, & K will oppose all these stress hormones in multiple ways, but they stay chronically high when you restrict carbs. Eating greens and liver and receiving lots of sunshine will take you a long way.

The perils of high fat intake were well known before his time, but it wasn't until 1963 that Sir Philip John Randle (16 July 1926 – 26 September 2006) outlined the details on the theoretical mechanisms at play in what has come to be known as the Randle Cycle.

Randle, P. J., et al. Mechanisms modifying glucose oxidation in diabetes mellitus. Diabetologia 37.2 (1994): S155-S161.

https://doi.org/10.1007/BF00400839

>The Glucose Fatty Acid Cycle as formulated 30 years ago and reviewed in the Minkowski lecture in 1966 described short term effects of fatty acids (minutes) to decrease uptake, glycolysis and oxidation of glucose in heart and skeletal muscles. Such short term effects have since been extended to include inhibition of glucose uptake and glycolysis and stimulation of gluconeogenesis in liver and these effects have also been convincingly demonstrated in man in vivo. More recently a longer term effect of fatty acid metabolism to decrease glucose oxidation (hours) has been shown in heart and skeletal muscle and liver. This effect increases the specific activity of pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase, which in turn results in enhanced phosphorylation and inactivation of the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex. Activity of the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex is the major determinant of glucose oxidation rate. It seems likely that longer term effects of fatty acids on this and other aspects of glucose metabolism could be important in the development of insulin resistance in diabetes mellitus in man.

Yet with such strong science behind the ideas of how chronically high fat intake results in obesity, insulin resistance, and eventually diabetes because fat and its metabolic byproducts both interfere with the proper glucose oxidation and increasingly accumulate in the body in aging, the public at large remains ignorant and ready to hop on fad diet trains, such as keto and paleo.

>>138665

>>138663

I highly suggest you didn't listen to this anon. Video related.

Models, especially asian models, are just skinny guys with a little arm development. A model body is something you can achieve within 2 years.

>>138667

>I highly suggest you didn't listen to this anon.

Oh no, it's the wrongthink police! Better pack my bags and stop referring to scientific advancements in the understanding of obesity and diabetes.

>>138668

Yes, outdated and harmful theories have no place in /fit/.

>>138669

The science never changed, but society's attitudes did. (Which is self-evident when you are only able to post youtube videos in responce.)

>>138670

Society's current attitude is that fat = bad and that if you eat fat you become fat. It's simple minded. "Science" doesn't support that attitude. I'd suggest you watch the videos, they're filled from start to finish with information.

>>138671

>Society's current attitude is that fat = bad

I mean, you say that, but all I hear people whine about is sugar nowadays.

>"Science" doesn't support that attitude.

But it does support it from the most basic premises. What's inside your fat cells? What exactly do fat cells store? Is it sugar? Go ahead. I'll let you answer this one.

>>138672

This video should answer your confusion. There are two types of sugars: glucose and fructose. Glucose is vastly superior to fructose due to how it's processed in the body. Glucose is first stored in the body as glycogen, when the storage capacity has reached it's limit it's sent to the mitochondria to be burned. Some of it of it isn't burnt and is instead made into VLDL fat through the process of de novo lipogenesis. VLDL is a major contributor to heart disease. Fructose is found in fruits and honey. Fructose isn't necessary to the body and nearly 100% of it is sent to the liver's mitochondria. A large portion, much larger than glucose, becomes VLDL. Not only that, but it also exits the cell as free fatty acids and leads to insulin resistance in the muscle. Not all of the fat can get out of the cell so fat accumulates in the liver and now you have fatty liver disease. It also promotes inflammation.

>>138673

>>138672

pls m8s make up your mind you're giving such contradictory advice here

>>138674

You're going to have to make up your own mind. Read the sticky, it has a lot of good information. Ignoring both of us is fine too. There are many ways to make it especially if the goal is just aesthetics.

>>138673

I recommend a high ratio of carbs come from fructose in the case of diabetes. Sucrose and fructose have been used in the treatment of diabetic patients since at least 1864 in Paris by P. A. Piorry

and 1867 in England by Dr. William Budd in which they were able to stabilize their patient's health through the addition on supplemental sugar to their diets which they were otherwise losing through the burning away of muscle tissue. I will paste some quotations I have been collecting in the hopes I would eventually write a full fledged article on fructose below.

>Some of it of it isn't burnt and is instead made into VLDL fat through the process of de novo lipogenesis.

This is a protective mechanism. The de novo lipogenesis works to primarily create saturated fats in the context of a diet which is already high in polyunsaturated fat. Saturated fat and cholesterol being created in the liver protects against lipofuscin and glycation. The cholesterol is used to shuttle garbage out:

Itakura, Koichi, et al. Detection of lipofuscin‐like fluorophore in oxidized human low‐density lipoprotein. FEBS letters 473.2 (2000): 249-253.

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0014-5793(00)01539-8

Don't put the omega-6 fatty acids or other trash in there to begin with, and the problem is solved.

>A large portion, much larger than glucose, becomes VLDL.

The production of cholesterol by fructose is a marvelous benefit. Cholesterol is extremely protective in aging and works to eliminate toxins in the liver and bloodstream. The density largely has to do with the type of fat in the diet. If it's largely omega-6 as seen in this study, fructose will contribute to VLDL creation:

Trugnan, G., et al. Short term essential fatty acid deficiency in rats. Influence of dietary carbohydrates. Lipids 20.12 (1985): 862-868.

https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02534769

>In the EFA-deprived rats (D + SU), sucrose resulted in little increase in plasma cholesterol concentration (Table 3). In rats fed the sucrose/EFA-adequate diet (A + SU), plasma TG concentration was two-fold higher than in the control group (i.e., before the experimental diet).

(EFA = so-called essential fatty acid, or in this context, corn oil)

Or alternatively in the case of a higher ratio of saturated fat the particle size increases:

Sjogren, Per, et al. Milk-derived fatty acids are associated with a more favorable LDL particle size distribution in healthy men. The Journal of nutrition 134.7 (2004): 1729-1735.

https://doi.org/10.1093/jn/134.7.1729

So we begin to see the villain as omega-6 fatty acids, and fructose as a helpful defender. It is also the case that estrogen decreases LDL particle size.

Campos, Hannia, et al. Effect of estrogen on very low density lipoprotein and low density lipoprotein subclass metabolism in postmenopausal women. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 82.12 (1997): 3955-3963.

https://doi.org/10.1210/jcem.82.12.4437

>>138677

One may begin to imagine that any potential toxin or hazardous substance (excesses of estrogen create hypoxia.) reduces LDL particle size, and when fructose is simply working to eliminate these threats by creating cholesterol, it gets blamed for being present, doing its job. Not only does cholesterol work to eliminate threats, but it also is associated with longevity:

Forette, Bernard, Danièle Tortrat, and Yves Wolmark. Cholesterol as risk factor for mortality in elderly women. The Lancet 333.8643 (1989): 868-870.

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(89)92865-1

>Cox's proportional hazards analysis showed a J-shaped relation between serum cholesterol and mortality. Mortality was lowest at serum cholesterol 7·0 mmol/l, 5·2 times higher than the minimum at serum cholesterol 4·0 mmol/l, and only 18 times higher when cholesterol concentration was 88 mmol/l.

Which is exactly what you would expect if some individuals are helped by increasing toxin elimination and others—on the extreme end—are under such a high chronic toxin burden that they die sooner. Also with good reason one may be inclined to theorize cholesterol is working to make people smarter:

Xu, Guorong, et al. Relationship between abnormal cholesterol synthesis and retarded learning in rats. Metabolism 47.7 (1998): 878-882.

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0026-0495(98)90130-5

>Chronic inhibition of 7-dehydrocholesterol-Δ7-reductase reduced cholesterol and increased 7-dehydrocholesterol levels in plasma and brain, and was associated with impaired learning. Cholesterol feeding corrected plasma and hepatic sterol levels and reduced brain 7-dehydrocholesterol concentrations to reestablish normal learning.

Black, Stephen L. Serum cholesterol and visuomotor speed: inverse or direct association?. The American journal of clinical nutrition 81.2 (2005): 537-538.

https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn.81.2.537a

>… the higher the cholesterol concentration, the higher the visuomotor speed—a direct association.

Additional references:

Parasassi, Tiziana, et al. Cholesterol protects the phospholipid bilayer from oxidative damage. Free Radical Biology and Medicine 19.4 (1995): 511-516.

https://doi.org/10.1016/0891-5849(95)00038-Y

Bohr, Iwo. Hypercholesterolemic diet applied to rat dams protects their offspring against cognitive deficits. Simulated neonatal anoxia model. Physiology & behavior 82.4 (2004): 703-711.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.physbeh.2004.06.009

Staprãns, Ilona, et al. Oxidized lipids in the diet accelerate the development of fatty streaks in cholesterol-fed rabbits. Arteriosclerosis, Thrombosis, and Vascular Biology 16.4 (1996): 533-538.

https://doi.org/10.1161/01.ATV.16.4.533

Qiao, J. H., et al. Involvement of the tyrosinase gene in the deposition of cardiac lipofuscin in mice. Association with aortic fatty streak development. The Journal of clinical investigation 92.5 (1993): 2386-2393.

https://doi.org/10.1172/JCI116844

Michikawa, Makoto, and Katsuhiko Yanagisawa. Inhibition of cholesterol production but not of nonsterol isoprenoid products induces neuronal cell death. Journal of neurochemistry 72.6 (1999): 2278-2285.

https://doi.org/10.1046/j.1471-4159.1999.0722278.x

>>138679

This is a list of quotes from experiments and studies ranging from 1874 - 2006 in which positive or neutral things are said regarding fructose in relation to diabetes.

just gib me a good workout for model body m8s

>>138784

>argentina

Niggers get a good bod from doing pushups and running so don't worry

>>138785

Not just niggers

>>138818

Gotta eat big to get big

Don't eat do alot of cardio about it. Abs are from low bodyfat maybe even sub 10% if you have shit ab genetics. That asian guy has nice biceps too so prob at least works out his arms. You can achieve that physique with dumb bells and bodyweight maybe get a chin up bar.

just fukin lift

>>139048

Oui bien sur.

>>139059

How would you shit with that diet?

>>139689

Just fine. Fiber is not needed for bowel movements. Even that guy that fasted for over a year took a dump once a month. Shit is largely made from dead intestinal bacteria. If you eat carnivore or fast they actually feed off your ketones and leftover digestive juices and survive just fine..

>>139698

>>139700

Thanks for the new knowledge anons I guess maybe I'll try to experiment with lower fiber diets

>>139720

Oops. "What the fuck is this shit?" was supposed to be in reply to >>138663

>>139721

>What the fuck is this shit?

Well? Did you mean to make an argument here for me to reply to or something? It's okay. You can keep being sure of yourself. I'm only advocating a scientific perspective which does not imply that it is impossible to have low body fat on a low carb diet. The higher carb lower fat diets are repeatedly shown to be healthier and to promote more youthful hormone production. If you were too busy being proud of your results, maybe you didn't have time to look at the longer term points of view. My position will always be whatever fat you retain due to eating more carbs is generally a healthier state of living, and that the way to lose body fat when eating high carb is to eat less dietary fat.

There is such a thing as healthy and unhealthy body fat, and which it is all depends on context. Models don't just become models because they have little fat but rather because they also look healthy—a measure of beauty and grace. In the long run, low carb will destroy that beauty by increasing stress and aging. The reason I point this out is because it is possible to both preserve youth and maintain low body fat. Are those white hairs on your chin? Maybe that's what you want, but you're in the modeling thread.

>>139722

High blood sugar leads to Alzheimer's.

>>139727

Excellent, because a high carbohydrate diet that isn't made in a lab will keep blood sugar low. Low carb diets have a way of keeping blood sugar elevated by increasing stress hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline which actively keep blood sugar elevated. Naturally high carb foods such sweet fruits come with cofactors that help get sugar into and used by cells instead of waiting around in blood. High fat diets further prevent this utilization of blood sugar, and the damning evidence has been known for ages.

>>139728

The fructose is still less efficient than protein as an energy source since fructose doesn't repair muscle use like protein does.

>>139730

I'm not sure what your point is since nobody said stop eating protein. I only suggested that fructose is wrongly vilified and provided evidence for its positive qualities earlier in the thread.

>>139722

>If you were too busy being proud of your results

Why don't you post your results with your low fat high carb diet?

>Are those white hairs on your chin?

I'm 40. Have had grey hair since late 20s and I've eaten a high carb diet until I was 38.

>>139740

Okay, but one of the things that improved the most was my face and its skin quality. My jawline is squarer from vitamin K. I prefer to remain anonymous. I was shedding considerable hair before as well, but now that has stopped along with major improvements in acne severity, which is gone everywhere but my back now. (I may apply a special ointment there to remedy this remaining quirk, but sunlight exposure may also do the trick.) I also had a chronic allergic rhinitis that's 90% gone now.

Many of the things which changed for the better are not conveyable through a picture, especially since I have completely stopped lifting weights or running since adopting a new diet. No diet could have stopped the inevitable atrophy of muscles from ceasing to lift, but I reside at a steady and comfortable 165 lbs in spite of moderate total fat intake from frequent ice cream. (It's true I could choose a lower fat desert if I wanted more body fat loss but this is the only way I eat eggs now. Avoiding excessive omega-6 is way more important to me than avoiding fat altogether, but for the sake of those in need of help, total fat intake must be cautioned against.) I may begin lifting again one day as I have an abundance of energy lately. The reason I stopped was because I hit an energetic and motivational low point shortly before changing my lifestyle.

The mental and spiritual changes are what I appreciate the most. Sugar isn't magic, but it gave me the energy to persevere long enough for breakthroughs and healing (still ongoing). I was a very serious, depressed, stressed out, chronically angry person. I realize now the tragedy of a human being I was becoming had much to do with excessive polyunsaturated fat consumption and chronically high serotonin. The brain has a very high rate of oxidative metabolism and requires many carbs for normal functioning, but I superstitiously avoided sweet things and had no habit of fruit eating for many years. I simply wasn't going to make it at the level of dysfunction I exhibited no matter how much I unleashed my rage with a barbell on dark lonely nights in my garage.

Happiness was previously a rare thing for me, but the first thing of note to happen when I focussed on thyroid function was a spontaneous goofy grin that burst into laughter for the first time in a couple months of morbid depression. This was the first assurance I had that I was on the right track. From there my mood continued to improve. I suspect I had bipolar disorder which was only getting worse but miraculously I have somehow avoided the manic states that used to overcome me for days at a time and the low points just don't appear.

I kept at it for months and months. I would find myself taking weird supplements to undo the damage caused by polyunsaturated fats and various deficiencies along with little tweaks here and there to further remove impurities from the diet. I was and still am little more than a weird loner, but back then I was dead inside and suffered in anguish resenting where life had taken me and wallowing in the meaninglessness of it all. Then came the breakthroughs. Not just once but on several occasions I sat there quietly watching anime or simply contemplating whatever in my room that insight shined its light on my cold, frozen heart that had only known chains of despair since late teenage years. No, the 2D animations had not cast a spell. They simply helped me remember that I could let go of 13 years of pain bottled up inside. Tears of joyful relief poured down my face. What the hell was that about? It seems my efforts against serotonin were not in vain. Serotonin causes fibrosis of the heart as well as depression.

More recently I had the happiest day of my life since childhood for no reason in particular other than I've been hitting all the right metabolic notes and spending time in the sunshine. There's not even anything special for me to be happy about. I'm still poor and alone with no career prospects or anything in particular to look forward to. I'm just laughing like a kid again. Along with the return of laughter is love. Although I have nobody to share it with, I finally stopped punishing myself through masochistic disciplinarianism, and I experienced for the first time in my life what I would call true serenity. I felt at that time like a ghost given permission to finally pass on, where previously I was fated to become a demon haunting for eternity should I face death.

>>139745

Carbs won't do all that for a person. I did a hundred different things to fix my problems. I keep harping on the omega-6 fatty acids because these are probably the single worst poison of the modern Western diet. A lower total fat intake generally means less of those, but I recommend vitamin E for partial protection against what remains. Macronutrient ratios are simply an elementary foundation to a much larger strategy. I don't eat bread anymore for example. Carbs = bread for some people, but for me it means sweet tropical and subtropical fruits and melons. One of the main ideas is if you manage to keep carbs high—and a high ratio of fructose—along with relevant vitamins and minerals, it is possible to stop making so many of the hormones associated with stress and aging—estrogen, serotonin, cortisol, and adrenaline—and more T3, androgens, and progestagens. Along with carefully chosen supplements, this is why I'm aging in reverse now.

You can diet however you want, man. I just like to make people aware of grander possibilities. Sorry for the blog. There's empirical evidence for my diet, but clearly my personal experience is a factor in my bias.

>>139745

>>139746

>I don't have any results worth sharing.

That's what I thought.

>>139777

It's okay if you ignore that I did get results. I wasn't lifting though so the best I can do is describe what happened. If I lift again in the future, I don't mind sharing progress pics. You're leaner than me. There's just other things that can happen to someone on a new diet. Body fat % is only one. A thing to consider is that environmental toxins are often stored in adipose tissue, so losing fat can make people feel like shit.

>>139779

>It's okay if you ignore that I did get results

tits or gtfo