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/fit/ - Fitness, Health, and Feels

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File: 9f92b84a5093811⋯.jpg (14.98 KB, 481x347, 481:347, squidward.jpg)

 No.129616

I recently started a program alternating volume and high intensity training throughout the week and after having tried the volume training I can barely get in 3 hours of sleep. I've tried melatonin, but it makes me drowsy for a half hour and then I'm an owl again.

I've read that insomnia can happen after strenuous workout sessions so it makes sense that this is happening, but I've never had this problem before even when starting out. Will my body eventually adapt to this type of training or will it happen every time I increase intensity? Any lifestyle changes I should make to help adapt?

 No.129619

Do you go to the gym late in the evening? I have the same problem if I lift about 1-2 hours before I normally sleep. I need a little time to let the rush go by.


 No.129621

>>129619

I lift at least 4-5 hours before bed. The alternative is to lift in the morning but I'd be waking everyone else up.


 No.129626

>>129616

Try magnesium aka Natural Calm


 No.129629

try sleeping under more blankets, I was having a similar problem but that took care of it


 No.129631

>>129629

>>129626

I'll try the magnesium pills. I can't sleep when gets too hot. Is it the weight that helps? I might be bale to figure something out if that's the case.


 No.129636

>>129616

Do you have a decent bed? I was an insomniac for years but recently got a new bed. Now I fall asleep pretty quick. No more tossing for hours.


 No.129639

Lifting later in the day or evening, especially without eating a meal afterwards, can do this, as it interrupts the habitual hormonal cycle that allows one to sleep at night. Cortisol, for example, is ideally lowest before bed after supper, but exercise causes acute spikes in both cortisol and adrenaline which massively increase alertness and disable the ability to relax while their influence is dominant. Fasting also increases these hormones but more slowly than exercise, and balanced meals with adequate carbohydrates cause decreases in the alertness-inducing stress hormones. The summary of the opposing influences is to create a natural cycle where fasting from sleep normally causes the highest point of cortisol and adrenaline in the morning, and each meal following waking up proceeds to lower them more and more until cortisol reaches its lowest point at night after supper.

Either acute exercise at the wrong time, the wrong type of exercise, or a refusal to replenish fuel stores and lower stress after exercise are all ways to throw a wrench into this plan. Acute exercise is ideally done in the morning after breakfast, but failing that it can probably be done successfully shortly after lunch in certain contexts. Exercise right before supper is not ideal in the long run, and the worst sin against sleep is to exercise, starve, and lay in bed restless. The wrong kind of exercise would be that which induces chronic elevation of the stress hormones, usually by chronic, overwhelming increases of free fatty acids into the bloodstream which cumulatively damage the metabolism to the point of causing insomnia. The textbook example is breathless, endurance running, but any anaerobic exercise done long enough will eventually cause hypothyroidism and a dominating influence of stress hormones.

One of the ways meals and carbohydrates cause relaxation is by increasing levels of T3 while providing fuel to store as glycogen, but a metabolism damaged by the wrong type of exercise, lifestyle, or diet is unable to produce enough T3 to relax and oppose other hormonal forces. In this perspective, supplementation of T3 - especially with supper, if not a little with each meal - can restore a healthy sleeping pattern, and is a very reasonable treatment option when one doesn't understand how to otherwise fix the underlying causes of the problem but is still in need of relief sooner rather than later.

To those without access to T3, there are many mundane, over-the-counter alternatives that have properties similar to T3. One of which is caffeine. Although it is frequently mischaracterized as a substance only capable of creating alertness and inducing adrenaline, it is actually a plant analog to thyroid hormone. Frequent caffeine consumers are noted for their "tolerance" of larger amounts than casual consumers and will frequently report that they don't feel much from a cup of coffee or two. The reality is that in the beginning, caffeine consumption flushes fat from the liver which interferes with the oxidative metabolism of glucose while simultaneously using up available glucose causing a stress reaction. In the long term as caffeine is repeatedly consumed, the liver becomes less and less fat, able to produce more T3 on its own, and able to store more glucose as glycogen so caffeine ultimately promotes a healthy metabolism that is in a more suitable position for relaxation.

Effects of caffeine on anterior pituitary and thyroid function in the rat.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6104718

Chronic caffeine intake increases androgenic stimuli, epithelial cell proliferation and hyperplasia in rat ventral prostate

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3521899/


 No.129691

>>129639

Is there fucking nothing these days that wont fuck with your hormones and turn you nito a woman? god damn


 No.129698

>>129616

I work out late evenings and have no trouble. My trick is to

Step 1. Jog 2-5 miles on hillside. A good warm up

Step 2. Do some sets

Step 3. Then repeat steps 1 and 2

Step 4. Finish with another 2-3 miles.

Do this 2 or 3 times a week and you will be falling into your bed.


 No.129779

OP here. I moved my workout sessions into the morning and that fixed the problem mostly. The magnesium either helped calm my nerves too or was a good placebo.

>>129639

That's really interesting info. I've always avoided caffeine because I could never handle the the counter-reaction to the adenosine inhibition which, for me, kicks in after a half hour. I'll try slowly acclimating myself to it.


 No.129780

>>129779

The magnesium was a good move. Magnesium supplementation can often recreate many (but not all) of the benefits of thyroid supplementation as a lack of thyroid hormone causes magnesium to be depleted more quickly. Salt will help you retain magnesium even more, and it also has the added benefit of lowering adrenaline by lowering angiotensin II. Most people are hesitant to eat a lot of salt, but if you consume pure salt without iodine (Getting iodine levels right can be tricky.) it's pretty much always safe to consume as much salt as you want, as it starts to taste bad when you've had too much. Going "crazy" with salt consumption was one of the first positive dietary changes I made. Exercise increases electrolyte needs after all.

Control of sodium excretion by angiotensin II: intrarenal mechanisms and blood pressure regulation.

>Angiotensin II (ANG II) is one of the body's most powerful regulators of Na excretion, operating through extrarenal mechanisms, such as stimulation of aldosterone secretion, as well as intrarenal mechanisms. Considerable evidence suggests that the intrarenal actions of ANG II are quantitatively more important than changes in aldosterone secretion in the normal day-to-day regulation of Na balance and arterial pressure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3521337

Angiotensin II subtype 1 receptor modulates epinephrine release from isolated rat adrenal gland.

>To elucidate the role of subtypes of the angiotensin (AT) II receptor in epinephrine release from the adrenal gland, the effects of AT II subtype 1 (AT1) receptor and AT II subtype 2 (AT2) receptor antagonists on AT II-induced modulation of epinephrine release were examined. […] These results suggest that AT II increases epinephrine release from the adrenal medulla via the AT1 receptor.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7889190


 No.129830

>>129616

When I unloaded trailers at UPS this happened to me. Best way to go back to sleep is piss then drink some water & have a nice sandwich for a midnight snack.You'll be back to sleep in less than 20 mins.


 No.133568

OP here with an update.

I pretty much fixed my issue by moving my lifts to early morning and doing cardio a few hours before bed. I also stopped taking creatine at night. That was a big factor.


 No.133603

>>133568

I find this funny because in traditional chinese medicine, excess "water element" will lead to being wide awake and needing less sleep, and creatine increases water quantity in the muscles…


 No.133623

>>133603

That might be it. I get jittery after taking creatine and I always assumed that was because it increased DHT levels.




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