/dir/ - 8kun's Board Directory

wew

Someone posted this on the gamergate general, they're all mad at you.

But whatever.

Stay strong, Board Owner.

ヨシヨシ
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゛~,,,….-=-‐√"゛゛Ｔ"~￣Y"゛=ミ

>>300

should have done this when baph was getting people swatted and snitching on the gghq board owner to the FBI.

no integrity at all HUAAAAAARGH THE FRENCH.

>>300

I think it's obvious that hotwheels doesn't give a damn about this site anymore. He spends more time jerking off with irc faggots than he does on here, and he never addresses any concerns going on. Pretty sad.

>>303

This isn't about Acid Man or Revolt's slapfight. This is about HW being apathetic to the point of letting BOs harvest post histories, combine them with dox, and send them in to alphabet agencies. Like it or not, there are boards here that may not be doing anything wrong but may still be of interest to them. I want to know where the line's going to be drawn. If Revolt did the same thing to people they're opposing and HW shrugged after giving the board special benefits on the condition that they not act up, I'd be against it, too.

I get that this is a clearnet site and any sense of true privacy is a myth, but this sort of thing seems to go against whatever principles HW had before. Where are they now?

>>306

8chan supports TOR.

If you dox someone, contact the FBI with their information, then brag about it on a stream. You're a dumbass.

The people on GGrevolt thought it was funny doxxing, snitching to the FBI and posting on baph trying to inciting leejun shit, I dindu nuffin :^), but then cry like bitches when it happens to them. It's pathetic.

>>307

>doxxing

>>>/reddit/

and you know as well as i do that any dox was removed from revolt.

also, how the hell can revolt's BO stop people from going to another board to dox exactly?

>>308

>and you know as well as i do that any dox was removed from revolt.

yeah, where they constantly referred to him as "coleslaw", a reference to the dox.

pure dinduism.

>>309

by that same logic everyone that called Brianna John flynt is a doxer.

You all seem to think this is somehow about GG or me taking sides in it. It's not. There are many boards on here that have nothing to do with Gamergate that are based on topics that could land someone on a watch list or cause them to lose their job. People talk about them here because they're allowed easy anonymity without the OPSEC risks that traditional identity-based forums would offer. Behavior like we just saw strips users of that anonymity, and the users of boards with radical or controversial themes here deserve to know just where the administration lies regarding anonymity and what a board owner's responsibilities are. Hotwheels's response left far too many questions unanswered on that topic.

>>307

This is like some telephone shit.

lol. It went from a stream that made fun of feminists and Acid (at the end) to a stream that doxed Acid to a stream that doxed, swatted, and bragged about dox/swatting Acid while also attempting to sell Korean sex slaves.

Hello. I have words.

I shut down the first board I made on 8ch over a thing with /b/ moderation a little while ago…deleted everything, it was just a place where I dumped content anyways. Then I promptly started using it as a sort of watchdog/archival/unfucking-8chan's-shit thing. There are a lot of things I have posted about, both angrily and reservedly, but I'm mostly trying to keep the narrative straight as waves and waves of these poli-SJW faggots keep trying to rewrite the very recent past. I don't know what I'm doing really, but anyways, I have this to say. It's not very bold or propaganda-like, but I think it's valuable information for people concerned about 8ch.

Hotwheels never offered people protection from hotpocketry from or identification by mods, at least at the start. In fact, any board admin could see the IP of every post made on their board. This was brought up pretty early on after the "migrations"…I don't remember exactly when. Close to the new year, I think. There was talk then, and later, first on /meta/ and then on /operate/ when that was made, about user ephemerality…should mods be able to track users between threads on their boards? Should they be able to know and do they need to?

There are a variety of things to consider here…obviously, admins can ban people. If they're looking for "numerous offenses" leading up to a ban instead of having a quick trigger finger, then it would be helpful in all but the most obvious cases to be able to track them throughout. Also, for admins who use "ban & delete all", they might accidentally wind up deleting half of the good content in their stickies because they lay down the hammer on a catalog-spamming autist who in the past few months was a useful-and-unique-information-posting autist. Now, they would deserve it for lightly using ban-and-delete-all, but that does exist for a reason…namely, when someone is catalog spamming. If you can tell they aren't the same IP as valuable posts, you don't have to delete every single bit of identical spam in threads and as new threads individually.

Also, I don't know if hash ephemerality would have even worked well with Infinity. So, anyways, IPs got hashed so people couldn't be traced that way, but admins/vols can still track people throughout their board by that hash.

>>313

Now, I like /dir/ and would be unhappy to see it go. People liked /undina/ (what it used to be) and were unhappy to see it go, though in a much smaller sense. So if you don't want to keep doing it, don't lock yourself into it, and by all means, if you have beef, I'm the last person who would say don't shut down a board over it…because I did. (The /b/ thing, by the way, gained ground somewhat but was never satisfactory resolved. Still, some points were made.)

On the motivation for /dir/'s closure, though, I feel obligated to say a few more things.

8ch was never a place to protect anons. Hotwheels may like and want to protect anons, or he may not give a fuck about anons anymore, but that's not the point as I see it. 8chan was created (or at least advertised) to protect free speech, be neutral, and allow anyone to make their own board, so on.

HW has not always remained true to this…he's done some manipulative things, had some less than canny interactions and things with board owners, but when he is caught he owns up and apologizes, and he doesn't seem to do this frequently. I think he's even admitted to things no one accused him of before, though I can't remember specifics, so maybe not. He has at times allowed his bias towards and affection for his ideal notion of /pol/ to affect his judgement or actions, he has supported /baphomet/ in doing some things contrary to some of his stated values when it seemed convenient or necessary to preserve 8ch when hosts and payment processors were doing debatably illegal and certainly unethical things to 8ch - and you all cheered them mutually on, I might add. He has displayed periods of unresponsiveness, apathy, or irrationality concerning some aspects of the site, and his organizational skills leave some things to be desired. He was formerly part of the very soul of Wizardchan, which comes with a whole host of conflicts I won't get into here.

However, Hotwheels in general has stated and has endeavored to follow a policy of non-interference with the running of boards. There have been some exceptions and missteps; there have been rather more fabrications by /intl/ attention whores. While I still feel somewhat uneasy about HW's consistency and that of other globals even moreso, it would be a clear breach of the admin policy to go and chuck out an admin because he's stalking users. Now one might argue exceptional circumstances call for exceptional measures, but one might also apply that argument to censor the fuck out of 8ch because of its constant stirring of racial hatred or whatever.

Continuing in next post.

8ch is not a safe space

If you are posting on a board someone owns, they can be looking at all of your posts by IP hash. Nothing new there. They can be a random asshole, a serial killer, an FBI informant, HW himself, a sociologist, whatever. Remember, anyone can create a board. That's fundamental to 8ch more than anything else. That's the original concept it was based around. Just fill out a captcha and make a username and password and go…email optional. As far as I know, I could just keep making boards all day, though I suspect there would be an anti-board-spam measure in place on Next if there's not one already here. Point is, you cannot trust any board admin of any board at all. They can try to gain your trust but they may have ulterior motives. No one can ever save you from that. It's misguided to try. If you want to remain anonymous on the internet…anywhere, even 8ch…you should limit, exclude, and/or falsify information, change IPs a lot (a good VPN is peace of mind), never use your home IP for anything (or that of a server which can be directly traced to you), and you know, practice a little OpSec. The vols and admins can see everything you post on the board under one IP by that hash if they're autistic/hotpocketed/paranoid enough to wish to. As noted in the first post, changing this to ephemerality would impact site function somewhat. The IDs are like thread IDs (which the gg board has or had last time I knew), just board-wide. Anyone can collect and collate personal info you give out if it's all in one thread anyways. HW can't save you from the boogeymen or from your own stupidity…though he can, and did, hash IPs for vols/admins so they can't find out where you live easily.

Really, there's all of this moral outrage, but how is it different from the #blacklivesmatter campus bullshit we've all been laughing at? Okay, granted, some shit actually went down and it was a board admin doing it in this case, but it's the same shit. "It's your job to protect us!" yells every stupid whiny SJW across reputable colleges (demonstrating reputation is bullshit incidentally), "No, you aren't supposed to protect freedom of expression, you're supposed to protect us from harassment!".

Nope. 8ch has a purer freedom-of-expression history than the Ivy Leagues could ever claim to. That's through the ability to create boards, not the ability to post whatever you want on any board…because anyone can own a board, and hotpocket as they like.

>>315

>If you are posting on a board someone owns, they can be looking at all of your posts by IP hash. Nothing new there.

Sidenote: Yes this is new.

Before the great migration and all those things, Board Owners could see post IPs and browse posts by that. Hashing them was a new development.

Go ask hotwheels about it, that's all info I have.

the goons support this action

visit our irc sometime if you want to talk

>>315

oh hey piss guy, what's up?

fancy running into you here

still writing those walls i see lol

well, take care

Now one might argue me saying this is a little hypocritical given that I was demanding specifically freedom of speech on /b/ in my own protest, but that was a matter of what HW and 8ch shillers told us we could expect…and HW made /b/ and formerly admined it during the transitions, with freedom of speech and a complete lack of random "fun bans"…even banning a vol for giving out "fun bans". Then he handed it off to someone else, and shit changed…on /b/, the one and only "anything goes" board…which had been that on 4ch right up until some daffy cunt decided a site-wide ban on GG discussion was in order. Anyways, trying not to get off on that too much (I wrote about it at autistic length on /undina/ already), this is rather different I think.

First of all, the 8ch /v/ cult has a long history of bullshit. Rulefaggotry, banning people for insulting them, >(1), and so on. It's pretty much always been rather worse and more banhappy than the rest of 8chan (barring political, general furshit, hugboxes, etc), and frankly anyone who posts on any boards under their control was asking to be screwed in some way or another. It's sort of like…why go to 8ch at all if you just want to suck mod dick?

What response is HW honestly supposed to give? "I'm taking over the gg board, violating my own rules"? "I'm putting the gg board up for claim with an active admin, violating my own rules"?

Sure, he could act more concerned and less limpid and "well, they're my friends and they've contributed so much to 8chan that I trust them, everyone hold hands for unity against the shills"…if it's tone and lack of concern you're protesting, I'm with you on that. But if it's lack of a specific moderation act…your princess has never been in this castle. Any wretched treacherous sneaky underhanded dishonest exploitative manipulative vindictive bastard can make or claim a board on 8ch and take any sort of advantage they can manage to of its users…so long as they do not delete the majority of the pre-existing, relevant board content.

And okay, this is what I'm talking about:

>>306

>letting BOs harvest post histories

How the fuck's he going to stop them?

Preemptively know who's doing it?

Stop doing what he's been doing all along?

Just kick out whatever admins he doesn't like or trust or consider part of the collective?

Can't say it enough, that was never the way of 8chan under any circumstances, and when HW would misstep on that, he'd admit it.

Secondly, what's to stop any given dossier-hoarding faggot from changing his IP and making another board or reclaiming one he's been ousted from?

HW doesn't do background checks on people to let them have boards, that's the opposite of how 8ch has ever been. He put the IP hashing in to help without interfering with site function, the rest is and always has been up to the users. Hate a board? Don't go there. /gamergatehq/ isn't even a 4chan-named board. I remember when those SA wannabe Ayyteam faggots got the old /gg/ owner apathetic enough to ragequit and give them the login, and everyone was thinking it was going to be over (and really, it probably should have been at that point…e-celebs and biting obvious bait from feminazis fishing for oppression-fuel? Come on guys.)…I remember the "board war" with the three or four different options vying for space on the top 25…how two or three of them would be on it in different positions. There was /gamergatehq/, /gamergate/, and /gg/ if I remember. One of the latter, not sure which now, was the one Ayyteam nuked, which was then reclaimed by a random anon. HW confirmed the reclaim but no one had any way of knowing who it was or if it was just Ayyteam setting up for another round of whiteknighting.

Both /gg/ and /gamergate/ were owned by just some anons, and one of them beat out the endless shillery and false claims by the /gamergatehq/ posse and their official backing by Mark (which, if people were less stupid, should have prevented them from using it in the first place). Anyways, there was some other board for their admin meta-discussion where they talked about how they were going to shill their board and where and when, and sure enough they did. I was just watching this whole thing, but I made sure to redtext and post the links showing what they were doing and telling them to fuck off at the time. Sadly, the userbase was too damned stupid and /gamergatehq/ rose on a tide of propaganda to pass the other one and eventually drive it off the top boards in a battle of attrition. Then of course all of the new rules to "protect" the "community" from shitposters, and the "/pol/ is your ally" bullshit to bolster support.

>>318

I knew it was bad before, but when that board became the successor, even back when I still though Acid Man might be okay himself and talked to him a bit on some meta boards and threads, I knew GG was done. No one would listen, just endless sentimental me-too-ism. Anyone who's actually shocked and surprised that he turned out to be a massive faggot…I don't really know what to say to you. Again, HW is not meant to protect you from revealing too much and getting "cyberbullied" or "harassed online" if that means interfering with people's right to own boards even if he hates them.

Also, with /intl/, /pol/, /leftypol/ and the SA faggots' constant, endless initiative to stir up bullshit for their idiotic views and co-opt or influence or convert or manipulate any board split or disagreement, I'm skeptical about all of this victim bullshit. Let's be honest, if we're going to treat this shit like some sort of Harlem fronting, then /revolt/ snitched first.

You either pick "lulz" or you pick "principles" as the starting axiom in your srs bsns discussion on a chan. If lulz, it's all lulz and moralfags get ouuuuttt. Lulz started as a way to get people to not take everything too seriously, but quickly just turned into the imageboard version of "I'm being oppressed", to blow off any conversation at the point where it starts to become clear you're wrong. So, taking principles rather than lulz…this guy was doxxed, not unusual at all but certainly not in the interests of privacy…hell, do you want Benji and /baphomet/ nuked by HW if they ever dare to doxx someone on 8ch? I'm sure it's already happened, but they were probably people you can perceive as "outsiders" or "interlopers"…but 8ch isn't some sort of sacred echo chamber. Even if you take that as somehow unforgivable…the revoltfags did it first. Then they called the FBI for le epick swatting or whatever. Remember, we've put aside the "lulz crutch" so don't fall back on that. Harlem morality wise, they snitched. "Muh feel bro" wise they betrayed their fellow anon. Then whatsisname retaliates (allegedly) and (speculatively) has FBI links.

So if any of this was true (and remember, it could be 100% false at least based on what I know), the most preliminary foundational truth of the situation, and thus necessarily the most likely, would be the revoltfags "doxxing and swatting" which involved them stalking and collecting info on the admin of gghq and then calling the feds about him.

Is the falseness of their information or the "joke value" somehow a justification for them, but not for him? Is the use of mod.php hash stalking to "keep track of his enemies" really more disturbing than any other doxxing or stalking across the site, especially given he was apparently right to have this ace in the hole?

It's not as if this is a new development in vols/admins. The potential for exploitation was always there, open for all….see the entire >(1) thing and how it was aped on 8ch and then seriously applied in its own way.

I don't at all care for HW's withdrawn silence or the eerie feeling the site management as a whole has taken on, like the hush before a round of fingerpointing as stocks crash at a new business, or something…but in this case HW taking any sort of actual action against the BO would be contrary to what he'd always cared about, since the beginning. "The system works" - only when you use it. Voluntary user migration. Nobody's forcing anyone to stay and get their data harvested. Frankly, the IP hashing should have been enough as revoltfags should never have been discussing personal info or illegal plans or whatever on their "enemy"'s board. Now, wherever you go you don't know for sure who owns a board generally, and for all you know it might somehow be the same person as the one you left, or someone in league with them, so, as always:

- Do not give out factual personal information on goddamn 8chan, this is not a social network, and

- Change your goddamn IP once in a while

Guess that's all I had to write. If you do still want to close the board in protest of HW's general unresponsiveness, I can't pretend that doesn't make sense for me as it was some significant part of why I closed my little one.

>>316

Yeah I mentioned that if you read a bit further, but it's only "new" if you mean new as in several months ago.

>>319

>Also, with /intl/, /pol/, /leftypol/ and the SA faggots' constant, endless initiative to stir up bullshit

>still believing IRCwheels' narrative about le ebul goons trying to ruin 8chan

Opinion discarded.

>>320

You're not even trying anymore. You've worn false dichotomies out to the point where even the dumb anons are just not buying them anymore, and that goes double for the meta line about you and HW.

>>319

Trying what? I don't even what you're trying to say here, but your USI is off the charts.

>the dumb anons

Using a dictionary to fill out your posts doesn't make you smart, tripfag.

>>322

You're form /int*/, aren't you?

If yes, then you know exactly what is being said here. You're mentally disabled and you can't do anything other than scream "rulecuck".

>>323

Opposing rulefaggotry is a time-honored tradition on 8ch and kind of the whole point, but yeah, the difference with /int*/ is they're just well-poisoning and have difficulty not contradicting themselves within a single thread, let alone ever telling more than half-truths about anything.

>>323

Nope, /ggrevolt/. And I honestly don't know what the tripfag is talking about. False dichotomies? My meta line about me and HW? What is that even supposed to mean?

>tripfag hijacks a thread and derails it

what a surprise, couldn't see that coming.

>>317

>>320

>>322

>>325

>>326

samefag

Zan never doxed anyone, at most he reposted old dox someone else already did (without even confirming it) in #burgersandfries one time

the fact is that board owners (and volunteers) on 8chan are compiling post histories of their users. They're also using posts on other sites (like tweets linking to 8chan threads or claiming to have been an OP) to tie IPs together. I suspect some board owners are also cross-referencing their information against each other to target specific users.

There are numerous logs of Acid exposing post history for certain IPs publicly.

This isn't a problem that will be solved by simply removing Acid Man from gghq board ownership. Other BOs and volunteers are doing this too, they just aren't bragging to their dumbfuck reddit users about being FBI informants

>>328

If that is true, this website is practically halfchan at this point. I remember where old /jp/sies would get stalked by a janitor through post histories, filenames, and even going as far as using archive.moe.

>>328

mark from /v/ abuses post histories a lot

>>329

Again, 8ch never promised nor provided even the illusion of safety from being stalked by board admins.

>>331

BO and mods abusing post histories goes against free speech which is something 8 chan was advertised as, and it goes against what being an anon is all about. Sure you don't care though seeing as you're a tripfag who doesn't understand what chans are actually about.

>>331

>tripfag

>HW bootlicker

>redditor

>historical revisionist

>tripfag

Yep, it's cancer.

>>332

What 8chan is about is letting users create and manage their own boards without global interference so long as they do not violate US law or wipe the majority of the posts.

That is what it has always been about.

The entire point is to not have globals controlling every aspect of the site and deciding for the userbase what they think imageboards should be about.

>>333

It would be so much less obvious with just a little more effort put forth.

>>333

don't even need anything besides the tripfag part. Tripfags will never understand chan culture.

>>334

>It would be so much less obvious with just a little more effort put forth.

Agreed. You could start by dropping the trip.

>>335

That's why I listed it twice lol. But yeah, the other points are kind of unnecessary since they are already implied by him being a tripfag.

>>332

>>333

>>335

>>336

samefag

If you want site admins interfering with board moderation you need to go back

>>337

>tripfag can't take the heat

>bursts into treats

>drops the trip to accuse people who disagree with him of samefagging

lolcow detected, prepare to be milked

/monster/ here.

Good on you for standing up for what you believe in, /dir/.

>>338

Except its not even about how he moderates the board you fucking faggot.

It's about the BO being a corrupt little faggot collecting data on people he doesn't like and sending them to the FBI under a "claim" that he was SWAT'd.

God you fags might as well go back to Reddit at this point,

>>338

>implying hotwheels never interfered with board moderation before

>>338

oh and also

>saging a sticky

>telling others to go back

lmao

Wow, there's a lot to sift through, here. I'll just address it point by point, things that stick out to me.

>>313

>Then I promptly started using it as a sort of watchdog/archival/unfucking-8chan's-shit thing. There are a lot of things I have posted about, both angrily and reservedly, but I'm mostly trying to keep the narrative straight as waves and waves of these poli-SJW faggots keep trying to rewrite the very recent past.

That's actually a good idea.

>Hotwheels never offered people protection from hotpocketry from or identification by mods, at least at the start. In fact, any board admin could see the IP of every post made on their board. This was brought up pretty early on after the "migrations"…I don't remember exactly when. Close to the new year, I think.

It was in about October or November of 2014, I believe. The scandal started because board owners could see all bans, reports, or histories across boards rather than just on their board, allowed BOs and vols to pass notes to each other on these users, and didn't hash IPs. Someone protested, and rightfully so, that they shouldn't be able to see histories across boards or discuss users with one another. Someone brought up the idea of having an unhashed IP as a risk to users who don't want their information harvested, and Hotwheels agreed.

>There are a variety of things to consider here…obviously, admins can ban people. If they're looking for "numerous offenses" leading up to a ban instead of having a quick trigger finger, then it would be helpful in all but the most obvious cases to be able to track them throughout. Also, for admins who use "ban & delete all", they might accidentally wind up deleting half of the good content in their stickies because they lay down the hammer on a catalog-spamming autist who in the past few months was a useful-and-unique-information-posting autist. Now, they would deserve it for lightly using ban-and-delete-all, but that does exist for a reason…namely, when someone is catalog spamming. If you can tell they aren't the same IP as valuable posts, you don't have to delete every single bit of identical spam in threads and as new threads individually.

That's why I'm ultimately against the idea of something like hash ephemerality. It does have its purposes. Really, the only answer I can see to this problem is reactive rather than proactive, unfortunately.

>8ch was never a place to protect anons. Hotwheels may like and want to protect anons, or he may not give a fuck about anons anymore, but that's not the point as I see it. 8chan was created (or at least advertised) to protect free speech, be neutral, and allow anyone to make their own board, so on.

The problem I have with this is protecting anons does protect free speech. If board owners are allowed to create dossiers on their users and use the board as a honeypot to populate that dossier, then that has a chilling effect on free speech on this site, does it not? I mean, illegal boards aren't allowed on here, but that doesn't mean that there aren't several boards that would be of interest to authorities.

>8ch is not a safe space

>If you are posting on a board someone owns, they can be looking at all of your posts by IP hash. Nothing new there. They can be a random asshole, a serial killer, an FBI informant, HW himself, a sociologist, whatever. Remember, anyone can create a board.

And that's irrelevant. What I want to know is not whether or not HW will "protect us," it's what he will do when it's obvious that a board owner's selling his users downriver like that? Is it going to be tolerated, and if so, what effect will it have on free speech? Can this site even call itself pro-free speech anymore if it takes the attitude that board owners can treat their boards as honeypots? There's a difference between it being possible to do something on a site and it being allowed by the administration. If I'm one of those people that you mentioned, I'd feel a lot more confident doing this sort of behavior knowing that Hotwheels will have my back, whether it's because he's actually fine with it, or because he doesn't give a rip about the community anymore.

>What response is HW honestly supposed to give? "I'm taking over the gg board, violating my own rules"? "I'm putting the gg board up for claim with an active admin, violating my own rules"?

He already crossed the Rubicon with that when he gave Acid a 12 hour ultimatum to prove he wasn't a fed, then was satisfied when Acid sent an email going "I'm not." Like it or not, he does have a history of interfering with board owners when he feels it will improve the community in some way. So, the line has been drawn, but we have no idea where it is or what it takes to cross it. That's my issue.

>How the fuck's he going to stop them?

>Preemptively know who's doing it?

>Stop doing what he's been doing all along?

>Just kick out whatever admins he doesn't like or trust or consider part of the collective?

Again, I feel you have to be reactive rather than proactive here and say whether or not a behavior like that is allowed as part of a site and act accordingly. All we've heard from him on the topic is that he doesn't want a dedicated FBI informant running a board. Really, you could say that him speaking up to begin with on the topic betrays all of those, because really, any FBI informant with an IQ over 80 wouldn't go waving his dick around about informing on people like HQ's BO did just now.

>Also, with /intl/, /pol/, /leftypol/ and the SA faggots' constant, endless initiative to stir up bullshit for their idiotic views and co-opt or influence or convert or manipulate any board split or disagreement, I'm skeptical about all of this victim bullshit. Let's be honest, if we're going to treat this shit like some sort of Harlem fronting, then /revolt/ snitched first.

This isn't about snitching, this is about the use of mod tools and position within the community to assist in that snitching. I guess if you want to, this could also extend to the unsubstantiated rumor (have to add that) that Mark took money in return for giving a dev a sticky to shill their game and agreeing to clean it of trolling. What allows for permissible BO behavior? He can't help who's a fed or not, no, that goes beyond the scope of his site. But if they use his site for certain behaviors, then that's within the scope of what he should concern himself with as an admin, in my opinion.

> - Do not give out factual personal information on goddamn 8chan, this is not a social network, and

> - Change your goddamn IP once in a while

These are both free speech issues and automatically treat the site as compromised. Probably wise if you want to discuss controversial topics, but you have to admit, they make free speech on here seem limited by the system and the admin's attitude regarding BO behaviors, don't you think?

>>309

that was a public BDSM profile, not dox, you nigger.

>>328

>>329

>Other BOs and volunteers are doing this too, they just aren't bragging to their dumbfuck reddit users about being FBI informants

This. During /pol/harbour around April 1st, the volunteers threatened me with revealing my post history he had been compiling, because I had revealed their collusion with the raiders and CrippleKike's blessing to intentionally fuck up /pol/.

>>346

well if a BO is openly doing this they should be removed.

>>342

I seriously doubt he was implying that. The implication seemed to be what we already all know…that it sucked every time HW interfered with board moderation.

>>344

>The problem I have with this is protecting anons does protect free speech.

At the expense of freedom to run boards, which 8ch already has. You don't have to be a board owner to collect information; lots of people are already stupidly giving it out in single threads with IDs. The only real difference is that you have to be more careful guarding against an admin, and that it can of course be seen as great abuse of power, like wiping more than half of a board…only it's data aggregation, not censorship.

>What I want to know is not whether or not HW will "protect us," it's what he will do when it's obvious that a board owner's selling his users downriver like that?

If HW protects us, that is giving up freedom of expression for the "person who doesn't deserve it". It's saying "you can make a board and participate in free speech unless you're one of those damn FBI informants, then you don't deserve it."

Which may seem fair enough, but it's the same policy campus tards take to…white males in general.

>Is it going to be tolerated, and if so, what effect will it have on free speech?

When the answer to "is it going to be tolerated" is anything but "yes" to anything but forms of assault, that limits free speech. Now you can argue that collecting dossiers and turning them over to three-letter orgs constitutes the internets equivalent of assault, but it's a little shaky I think.

>Can this site even call itself pro-free speech anymore if it takes the attitude that board owners can treat their boards as honeypots?

Yes, because that does not actually restrict free speech at all. You may restrict your own free speech because of it, or you may just decide to use multiple IPs and falsify information, which again I think everyone should be doing anyways on any imageboard just as a matter of basic principle.

>There's a difference between it being possible to do something on a site and it being allowed by the administration. If I'm one of those people that you mentioned, I'd feel a lot more confident doing this sort of behavior knowing that Hotwheels will have my back, whether it's because he's actually fine with it, or because he doesn't give a rip about the community anymore.

Historically, the globals have (with some missteps which everyone called them on) allowed BOs to do everything but allow/encourage cp and nuke their own boards.

Legislating on something as abstract as creating off-site dossiers to get 1984 with people just doesn't make sense to me. All they're doing is using mod.php to look at threads. Not only is that impossible for the admins to know anything significant about without employing admin-activity-logging software of much creepier vibes, but once they do know (if an admin goes full retard and does something like giving shit to the FBI), the damage is already done. At that point, it will be spammed on the board, and everyone who believes that it happened and has an issue with the admin being immoral as fuck has the freedom and social responsibility to jump elsewhere. It's an extension of the system Hotwheels already set up. Before someone shares a "dossier", they've no way of knowing. After someone shares a "dossier", everyone knows it and has a choice to make. They don't need HW to protect them from making a board choice - that was never the point of 8ch - and they need to make a choice on their own to get out of the hotpocket equivalent of a boring relationship. Ultimately, HW can't protect people in any meaningful way from initially being exposed, though. All he could do at this point would be to make some sort of magnanimous, divisive, hotpocketing gesture by taking out the BO. I mean, if the BO is a global, then I would say that'd be a definite thing to get rid of, but he's not.

I also have seen no actual evidence that the faggot in question did in fact give the FBI dossiers or whatever, and for all I know at this point it could just be some more /intl/ bullshit. Even if HW were willing to go back to breaking his own rules over this, can you really expect him to do it on hearsay? Is anyone digging for info on this, or is it still a social conversation at this point?

Most of us came to 8ch because we really cared about free speech. Personally I saw censorship happening on 4chan and I just got sick and stopped going there, I didn't even care or know what gamergate was until a year later when I decided to read up on it.

Now /undina/ wasn't a big board but it was one I really enjoyed checking out before you moved to .pl. /dir/ is an important resource and part of 8ch that I like. I've listened carefully to both of you and I hear your message.

Recently the site has basically been abandoned by hotwheels as far as I can tell. They're not bothering to fix the current software because they've got 'next' coming soon. Fair enough but it's seriously impacting the site for the worse. Next is too shiny and "2.0", I don't think our culture can survive on it.

On the other hand I know our culture can't survive without a board. Why don't we all join forces, and anybody else who has a dedication to free speech and build a new board? One of the things I've learned from 8ch - looking at it as an experiment - is that users being able to create your own boards works well.

>>344

>He already crossed the Rubicon with that when he gave Acid a 12 hour ultimatum to prove he wasn't a fed, then was satisfied when Acid sent an email going "I'm not." Like it or not, he does have a history of interfering with board owners when he feels it will improve the community in some way. So, the line has been drawn, but we have no idea where it is or what it takes to cross it. That's my issue.

Oh, well that's disappointing. Disregard large parts of my previous post, I guess. Obviously, even Acid not being a fed doesn't mean he's an informant, even if we trusted his "I'm not". It seems bizarre that HW would be that trusting of someone and so paranoid about some other groups, but…and I hate to repeat it, because every time I do some /intl/ faggot just spams it more when it doesn't really apply…that's what comes of IRC cabals. "We're all friendly neighbors here in the moderating community, and those posters just don't understand." Even Jim said this a little when he said something about "you can trust us, we're old internet here". I think he genuinely wants those days to not be gone and dead forever, but they were too naive to live. If the Rubicon has been crossed…I'm with you on this, lame response and lame reaction. Like more of a token gesture than anything else. Maybe HW is just waiting on more info to rise to the top, or maybe he's just decided (and this is the reason for his reticence?) that if well-poisoners are going to twist whatever he says and lie alongside it, he'll just play the silent yin and give them no bait. Part of the reason, I think, is all of the fanatical hero-worship of him earlier on because people were glad to have another pre-cocksucker-era moot with a new and promising site. Presenting the appearance of loyalty and trusting to a fault, then someone says one word or two as soon as they get bored and they turn into a raging mob. Newfags being impressionable and easily manipulated prevent him from accurately gauging community response and issues, it's like flying blind. So if you turn to and trust major board owners, well, they're invested in the community and in touch with a large portion of the users, so it seems ideal, time management wise and just to avoid the trolls and abrasiveness while trying to actually figure serious site shit out. I get why HW does this, but it does isolate him from the community in general, not just the portion of it that never pays attention or remembers anything and just yells fake headlines. And it leads to BOs being able to manipulate his judgement if they work together and are subtle about it. It's a real problem.

>All we've heard from him on the topic is that he doesn't want a dedicated FBI informant running a board. Really, you could say that him speaking up to begin with on the topic betrays all of those, because really, any FBI informant with an IQ over 80 wouldn't go waving his dick around about informing on people like HQ's BO did just now.

AMEN. PREACH THAT SHIT.

An ounce of written admin policy saves a bucket of autism. The problem is that no one on 8ch's moderation team wants to do general community documentation, aside from maybe Nunu. Hell, I'd do writeups for them if they'd send me information and answer questions by email and decide on things that need deciding on and post whatever I finished writing up somewhere where people could have a link to it. But the whole non-coding documentation thing is (incorrectly) associated with political correctness. In fact, a lot of people wrongfully associate clarity with PC, which is stupid because PC pushers do whatever they can to avoid any actual clarity. So I don't know if anyone would get anywhere with the documentation thing. Least of all me, having talked lots of shit about IRC and probably antagonized people. However, it would be an important next step forward after Next itself…HW and others could just point to policy when redundant shitstorms rise. That said, the introduction of every single little obvious policy, whether it allowed more free speech or whatever, would be accompanied by /intl/ cooking up a shitstorm and trying to get the baby to leave 8ch along with the bathwater. Great trials and tribulations, and if only there were more documentation earlier on, but at some point I think it needs to be done, and hopefully before 8ch gets coopted by freedom-hating SJWs taking advantage of the vagueness, then laying down draconian policies.

>But if they use his site for certain behaviors, then that's within the scope of what he should concern himself with as an admin, in my opinion.

Okay, I think we're on the same page. I have no love for Mark, but I'll try to avoid commenting on the unsubstantiated rumor for now.

>These are both free speech issues and automatically treat the site as compromised.

Well, yes. It's user responsibility to do that these days, sadly. The uncomfortable truth is that 8ch is and always will be somewhat compromised. Josh seems to be doing a good job with responsible practices on Next, but as /tech/ would say,

>php

The whole internet is compromised. Our hardware is compromised and we don't know which hardware has backdoors until someone finds them. Hotwheels can try to protect us, to some extent, but we can never be safe. Ultimately, it does come down to his (unclear and situationally changing) policies. I get that he wants to keep it flexible so that he can survive and not get too much limelight from influential organizations and their extra-legal partners, but at some point there is going to have to be a clear policy defined. If you want to close down >>>/dir/ until that happens (and beyond if you dislike the clear policy), I can definitely see that.

>Probably wise if you want to discuss controversial topics, but you have to admit, they make free speech on here seem limited by the system and the admin's attitude regarding BO behaviors, don't you think?

Yes. I do think that's an unfortunate truth that's beyond HW's power to ever change, but perhaps he can mitigate it somewhat.

>>346

Keep fighting the false flagging wherever you see it, and

>>347

That, I actually agree with. "Conspiring with outside forces" to fuck up your own board with spam and manipulate your users into trusting you and thinking they need you…that's worse, board nuking wise, than deleting most of the ultimately temporary threads on the board at any given time. HW being involved with that is certainly one of the most rustling things about 8ch.

>>349

>Personally I saw censorship happening on 4chan and I just got sick and stopped going there, I didn't even care or know what gamergate was until a year later when I decided to read up on it.

Same. Well, really, I knew but didn't care much until the SJWs went full gestapo, then I cared for a bit, then it became full of various shills trying to use GG, and I bailed early.

>Now /undina/ wasn't a big board but it was one I really enjoyed checking out before you moved to .pl.

Actually I just posted a bit of stuff on .pl way back when and never removed it.

>Recently the site has basically been abandoned by hotwheels as far as I can tell. They're not bothering to fix the current software because they've got 'next' coming soon.

I, for one, believe HW when he says Infinity is too fucked to fix. Scalability problems, it was always tacked together from bits of things, he was pretty transparent and detailed about the problems going on back when it first started getting rocky…and I am familiar enough with PHP to buy it being just not worth fixing rather than start over.

>Fair enough but it's seriously impacting the site for the worse. Next is too shiny and "2.0", I don't think our culture can survive on it.

I don't think 8ch's culture is reliant on the burichan/yotsuba/etc look, but the way it's being coded does sometimes give me those data aggregation vibes. Well, I've complained about it enough over on my "watchdog" thread, won't start that up here. Josh has said it's going to be different, and the custom CSS for boards does seem a little easier to work with, though it's regrettable it'll all have to be rebuilt. I just hope the reply box channel and inability to actually close the reply box, even now that it can be moved and minimized, goes away. I know I'm not alone in that one by any means. Also the blue gradients between the most recent posts…but this isn't /next/. I think Next could be anywhere from greatly beneficial to fatal for the existing 8ch community depending on how the globals handle things and what decisions Josh makes about coding from here on out. To his credit, he does usually at least listen to people asking about (or loudly demanding) things.

>hy don't we all join forces, and anybody else who has a dedication to free speech and build a new board? One of the things I've learned from 8ch - looking at it as an experiment - is that users being able to create your own boards works well.

Ironically, I now own more boards than when I was going to ragequit 8chan. If we're going to do it, I think it should be on that board that the former 4chan mod made to first talk about the corruption in 4chan modding. I visited it the other day but now I can't remember the name. If it's abandoned, I can claim it. I think it's important to keep the old threads there and it would be a good place for more srs bsns discussion about 8ch.

>>346

this is really fucked up. do you have any screencaps or similar?

>>351

>If we're going to do it, I think it should be on that board that the former 4chan mod made to first talk about the corruption in 4chan modding

>>>/irc/ maybe? I'm not sure

>Really, there's all of this moral outrage, but how is it different from the #blacklivesmatter campus bullshit we've all been laughing at?

>Which may seem fair enough, but it's the same policy campus tards take to…white males in general.

Poseidon I am quite sick of your "You're just like SJWs" argument.

Being a white male is something you're born with and doesn't actively harm the community. Being a FBI informant is a choice you make, and that choice actually has results such as sending Information directly to the FBI.

I agree with you so far but those points are cheap shots so far. I'd request you stop using them if you really do want a serious discussion about this.

>>353

Not the one I was thinking of, but good to have.

I was thinking of >>>/forfree/

I've changed my mind, though. We need a board specifically about 8chan. >>>/irc/ still looks active, and I don't really want to take over >>>/forfree/ or change it even though it's dead. Instead, I'm going to make a new board and archive everything currently on these two boards and posts the archives there for posterity. Then I'll consolidate my archives of things there and do a little sorting and pasting. The board, which surprisingly wasn't already created, is >>>/watch/. It will take me some time to get everything set up there, so it may look sort of sketchy for a while, but I've started. Now I can stop abusing the scope of this sticky…sorry about that, /dir/ BO.

There's the problem of over-reliance on archive.is…if anyone has any ideas about alternatives, do tell. If 8archive.moe does become reliable again that's good…but it is under 8ch control. Sometimes I save copies of threads to my desktop, but it's very disorganized and also anons can't know I'm not editing the source files to manipulate it. Screenshots are good but not edit-proof and time-consuming.

>>354

Noted, but I'm quite sick of "freedom for only the good people" as it always, always goes wrong. I agree and will try to drop the argentum ad hitlerum and suck less dick, it's just lazy and needlessly divisive. That said, I'm not just fucking around about getting bad vibes when anons demand that admins protect their identities for them.

I don't promise to stop drawing parallels altogether, because sometimes it's the only way to wake anons up from a hypocritical witch hunt to actual noticing things. /b/ propaganda does take its toll on reasonable people. I'll just draw fewer, better, and less aspersion-casting parallels.

We all may as well try to be less bombastic with the administration as well…though I wouldn't go so far as to say we should be less confrontational.

If I get the time, I will try to lurk in some IRCs and actually pay attention/keep logs. make some dossiers for the FBI :^) :^) :^) fucking Acid Man

If I do ever have enough time on my hands, I may even try to initiate a direct conversation with admins, which I think is much more complicated that it may seem. I mean, wouldn't it suck to just wind up making anons think you were manipulating HW to harm them or something? Caution and transparency are needed. HW set a good example for that early in this year, I suppose we ought to step up to the plate sometime ourselves.

>>355

If you're into archiving you might like rizon #bibanon

You people should have listened to us from the start

-t. /intl/

>>356

Thanks, I'll check it out.

>>355

>which I think is much more complicated that it may seem

Go to #8chan-moderated and ping copypaste, he's there sometimes.

If that doesn't work, Linear is L(Coded for 8ch and leads the global volunteers) and n-tech is Josh.

>>359

Heh. About having to contact moderation through IRC….well, that discussion was had. But I will. Eventually.

>>311

>>360

what is #8chan-moderated

>>361

It was mentioned just now you idiot.

>>361

it's an IRC channel on rizon.

I seriously doubt copypaste will reply.

>>362

I know it's an IRC channel, but what is it for

>>364

Oh

Its basically #8chan except its actually moderated.

It serves no use officially, but useful if you want to avoid the dumbass on /operate/ called Nunu.

>>363

He may or may not depending on if he's there. I'm sure he does have a lot of things he's doing. I'd email him but I don't know about that, vc had no luck with it at all even though he runs the email server. I think I have a copy saved somewhere of the /tech/ thread he made where he'd disabled HW's email over getting zero response for weeks to the redchanit email problem.

>>364

It's a moderated channel for 8chan discussion. Like #8chan but moderated and somewhat withdrawn from the shitposters in #8chan.

Which means I'm not a fan of it, really. Because I never liked #8chan from the beginning either, lots of Wizardchanners circlejerking about how terrible 8chan was right from day one.

>>300

http://8ch.net/faq.html

(expired meta link in the faq) https://archive.is/USWmY

check the part where a BO can lose his board. There's nothing about being FBI informants or shit like that.

If I remember well, there were some boards that were legit honeypots like /hebe/ owned by laurelai and even in that case copypaste didn't take away the board from the fbi tranny informant.

copypaste won't do shit because he has the belief that people can abandon a board if they're not comfortable with the management. Just like how people migrated from one gg board to the next one.

But yeah, it would be nice if hw were to make another global rule regarding snitching to the alphabet agencies unless its about CP or illegal shit DONE ON THEIR OWN BOARD. not like this acid nigger.

>>306

I remember hearing that thing about special benefits, can someone mention them?

>>366

Is there any way to get copypaste's attention?

>>368

ROLL THE DICE AND WIN

That's my experience so far, anyways. Linear is more responsive but dunno if he can actually do anything.

>>315

>8ch is not a safe space

"Hey cops help us we're being mugged!"

"Uh, the streets aren't a safe space. You're just like SJWs!"

Fuck you.

Having standards of conduct doesn't make you an SJW.

Calling everyone who disagrees with you a harasser makes you an SJW. Being a deluded faggot who thinks that men can become women, that sex is different from gender, that there's nothing wrong with homosexuality, makes you an SJW.

Hallucinating microaggressions and 'racism' where it doesn't exist make you an SJW.

Saying board owners should respect the privacy of their users, or be removed, doesn't make you an SJW. It means you support a privacy policy.

Which is something we can talk about, but you're not here to talk, you're here to obfuscate.

>HW can't save you from the boogeymen

You're the only one who brought up the boogeymen, cuck.

Putting words in peoples mouths shows you're either dishonest or deranged. Fiction isn't a substitute for truth.

>how is it different from the #blacklivesmatter campus bullshit we've all been laughing at? Okay, granted, some shit actually went down

I found the difference.

>"No, you aren't supposed to protect freedom of expression, you're supposed to protect us from harassment!".

Who the hell is speaking against freedom of expression here? We're in favor of removing board owners who datamine their users.

>because anyone can own a board, and hotpocket as they like.

And HW can remove any board owner, and transfer and board he likes.

Shit, you're like a shill who says that because the police can never make you 100% safe, we shouldn't have cops.

Fuck off, Shlomo.

>>370

>mugged

"Help I showed my face in public and someone told the FBI I'm here".

Removing board owners who aren't preventing the freedom of expression of their users is against freedom of expression, because the ability to create and manage your own board is core to the freedom of expression of 8ch. I explained that. The discussion then moved to how the leaks and gathering may limit anon freedom of speech.

>And HW can remove any board owner, and transfer and board he likes.

Were you just not here during the migrations?

Nice /pol/posting, by the way. "Don't call me an SJW, you jew!"

>>>/jim/1811

calling out Jim.

>>315

>If you want to remain anonymous on the internet…anywhere, even 8ch…you should limit, exclude, and/or falsify information, change IPs a lot (a good VPN is peace of mind), never use your home IP for anything (or that of a server which can be directly traced to you), and you know, practice a little OpSec

You know, this is just as bad as the "nothing to hide" argument. If I have to go through all these hoops just to post on a site that's broken by design and still have to censor myself, I'd rather just go to fucking reddit or make my own echo chamber website. There's certain kinds of original content that you can't apply full OpSec to, myself and many other anons are here for them as well. If everyone assumed that they're being watched at all times, almost nobody would post anything of value in the first place. There would be no drawfags, no /krotchy/, no devs coming to /v/, none of the many things that made 8ch worth coming to for most of us. (even if you didn't appreciate any of them) And the irony is, actual shills, attention whores and other community leeches would be unaffected because they only make "official" posts and don't try to actually engage in discussion with other anons.

And it contradicts the principle of free speech. Free speech means nothing if you can be tracked for it. The only way you can have free speech on this site like that is by making your own blog board and posting only on it.

Don't defend bad site security by pinning it on the users, or you might as well be telling people to unplug their internet altogether, or kill themselves before someone else does it first. Acid is a cunt of the highest order. This isn't a "tell me I asked for it" kind of deal, it's blaming people for being executed when their home became a police state overnight, or raped when their country accepted thousands of "refugees" that they never asked for, and didn't allow them to own a gun either.

>>351

We're pretty much on the same page, but I'll say this.

>If you want to close down >>>/dir/ until that happens (and beyond if you dislike the clear policy), I can definitely see that.

I'll open it up again if I dislike the clear policy, but I'll either start looking for greener pastures, or make a new imageboard of my own. It might run on Next, it might be a traditional one, but either way, I won't go acting like the users owe me something or shut myself in an ivory tower of IRC shitposting, and I'll address issues as they come up rather than simply pretending they don't exist.

>>361

>just go on IRC

No, fuck that. The fact that he can't be asked to go on his fucking site and address his users that give him money to run it is why I'm doing this to begin with. I'm tired of him acting bigtime and requiring people to jump through flaming hoop after flaming hoop just to get his attention. I don't want to hear about this through Nunu, I don't want to hear about this on a Youtube video, I don't want to hear about this through Twitter, I want to see him talk to his users rather than prove all the people going >mootwheels right YET AGAIN. This all could have been prevented if he acted like he gave a flying fuck about the community he's supposedly leading.

are any of you guys familiar with infinity next development and what the best way to submit a feature request is? I sent Hotwheels an email asking him to consider removing the ability for board owners and volunteers to see post history for a given ID, but that might not be the best way to bring this issue to the attention of the Next developers

>>374

you have to understand that infinity is a house of cards that's been falling over for a year now. HW and maybe some volunteers have been on the clock trying to keep it running, but Next is where the show has to be.

You're essentially asking him to straighten the house of cards again. Focusing on Next is what he should be doing right now, not telling you why straightening out the house of cards is a bad idea

>>375

>what the best way to submit a feature request is?

>>>/next/ is Josh's board, and he's the lead dev. He stores every feature request posted here, even if it isn't time to add it yet.

Maybe its not a good time to do that right now, though. He's not really receptive at the moment.

>>371

>Removing board owners who aren't preventing the freedom of expression of their users

No of course he's not doing that, he's just reporting people he doesn't like to the FBI.

I understand you're desperate to defend your messiah because otherwise you'd have to do the uncomfortable task of admitting you put your faith in an FBI informant in a huge error in judgment, but Acid's actions speak for themselves. And all this has managed to do is showcase the complete ineffectiveness of Libertarian principles in being properly practiced, since "freedom" as a goal leads has lead us to our freedoms being infringed by Acid's FBI buddies. Freedom can't be a goal, because it always makes itself less free.

>>376

This isn't the technical end of things, though. This is about board and site policy and HW's overall vision for what he wants this site to be. These problems won't magically go away once we roll over to Next. There will still be the question of what is unacceptable behavior by board owners and who HW will side with when a BO uses his position to compromise your anonymity.

>>368

Try twitter.

@HW_BEAT_THAT and @infinitechan

Time it with a few others for when he actually weets so you know he's there. Fill his replies so if he ignores you all it's obvious.

>>375

>what the best way to submit a feature request is?

Well there's a few ways you could do that.

1.you could, as some have already recommended, take your feature request to the >>>/next/ board.

2. or you could instead go on the beta, and make your request there. https://beta.8ch.net/next/

chat logs from a ggr guy trying to get gghq removed:

http://pastebin.com/NYzJPN78

http://pastebin.com/rn5g6GHw

>>381

thanks dude

>>374

>Next

I don't like next

why not join with me and maybe poisidon if he's interested? >>349

>>352

I had the threads archived on (what was then) archive.today, but I am afraid I lost the URLs as I can't find them.

I guess I'll try to search for it on archive.is via screenshots of post numbers, perhaps I'll strike gold.

The volunteers in question claimed to have relinquished position in the meantime, but they could have just as easily lied as they did in the past. No proof was provided when anons clamored for it.

>>346

>>352

>>385

Found it!

/pol/ volunteer with ID d9f830 threatens with revealing post histories of multiple people at post #1622309 and #1622519. (just over 3/4 down the thread)

You can confirm him being volunteer as he posts with the same ID at post #1620711 in the thread. He probably did it more in the thread.

And HW was okay with this 8 months ago. He didn't lift a finger to handle that situation while he was shitposting on /pol/ during the raid.

>1622309

https://archive.is/8CmqA#selection-51139.0-51145.0

>#1622519

https://archive.is/8CmqA#selection-53701.0-53707.0

>volunteercode confirmation

https://archive.is/8CmqA#selection-25277.0-25283.0

>>386

The raid was coordinated as a false flag to set up more harsher rules on that board. It's the scummiest shit I have witnessed, even more when you have the volunteers on that same board pushing agenda driven narratives such as the shemitah.

>>367

CrippleKike removed the original /pol/ BO when he took it over in his 24-hour coup de /pol/ just over a year ago, and didn't give it back because he didn't like his moderation stance on shills and shitposters. So IRCwheels is only selectively adheres to this supposed autonomy ideal, and abandons this when it suits his own interests.

>>374

>but I'll either start looking for greener pastures, or make a new imageboard of my own.

You might want to take a look at >>>/volknet/

>>387

>The raid was coordinated as a false flag to set up more harsher rules on that board.

That is not what happened, revisionist. The BO, volunteers and HW imposed lolbergtarian moderation on /pol/ and colluded with /int/ to start 'funposting'. They did this by actively protecting their IRC raiding buddies and banning the board users opposing the lolbergtarian moderation. This was done by HW's explicit consent, who admitted to hate /pol/acks calling him a shill when he was on his shitposting sprees as anon. The lolbergtarian moderation, including HW, ironically abandoned their freedom ideals to abuse their power and enforce a modus operandi not wanted by the board population.

Just look at HW's failed coup of /pol/ when he lifted all bans and heavily reduced the ban times, for another example.

The 'harsher' rules were a ham-fisted attempt to appease /pol/acks and stop the heamorrhaging of leaving users. But of course these 'harsh rules' are nothing but an empty gesture and a carte blanche for the likes of imkikefy to hotpocketeer to their leisure. As nothing is done against obvious bait threads and the like. The board is big majority NatSoc/Fascist/Traditionalist and don't actually want a shitposting free-for-all on that particular board. It creates a situation where quality discussion is discouraged in favour of single sentence "funposting", which might be desirable for regular/other boards but is a deathknel for political discussion boards.

I'll leave the full/pol/-history discussion at this. Always remember that HW himself destroyed 1st exodus /pol/.

>>357

how did you guys know?

>>382

Jesus Christ. Is that first log real?

>>390

Yes.

>>>/ggrevolt/78138

>>391

I mean, it all sounds like his writing style, but I have a hard time believing he's that far gone. If he is, I'm out. I'll put /dir/ back up, but no more support.

>>392

I should also add that the guy behind it went about it all wrong. He went in for a goal other than answers. This goes beyond Acid and GGR.

Oh, and /sp/ is happy with their new BO. He's a good dude, I don't get why HW lets that decision color his views so much. If that's what's holding him back, then he needs to understand that mistakes should be learned from and not ran from.

>>393

I agree that he did it in a stupid way. But as far as I can tell, it's him.

Only way to know for sure if he rolls out of his cancerous IRCirclejerk and explains himself. Which won't happen according to that IRC chatlog.

Honestly, I am mostly angry at how both the Admin and Owner directing the outraged onto eachother. It's plain cowardice.

>>393

>and /sp/ is happy with their new BO

Hehe nice meme

/sp/ is just 4 guys now after that fiasco

>>373

>You know, this is just as bad as the "nothing to hide" argument.

No it's not. It's basic principles of opsec. HW will cooperate with law enforcement himself if they have something to go on, and if he doesn't, Jim will. 8ch is hosted in the US. Get your slippery slope shit out of here when you're the one wanting HW to make a special exception to his own standing rules.

> If everyone assumed that they're being watched at all times, almost nobody would post anything of value in the first place.

Everyone who is not retarded assumes they are being watched at all times. After the shit people have pulled and posted about on 8ch? If you think none of this is being aggregated by a bot and sifted into lists for men in suits to look through as suits them, I have bad news for you: this is not the 1990s. Hotwheels absolutely cannot protect you from being retarded and divulging your personal identity online. If you think you need to do that to produce content or have interesting discussion, you are clearly very new to imageboards. If no one would post anything of value under these circumstances, then no one would ever have posted anything of value on 4chan from the day it was founded on.

8chan is not, for any value of the word, safe. It strives to be secure. Admins are in charge of imageboards. The security of those specific imageboards is largely up to them. This is by design. If you trust a shitty admin despite constant indications that you shouldn't and then screw yourself over in the process, and then try to blame HW for it, no wonder he doesn't talk to you.

>And it contradicts the principle of free speech. Free speech means nothing if you can be tracked for it.

This is innately false. Freedom of speech does not mean blanket anonymity. It means you can say what you want to on the platform. Hotwheels will not shield you from US law (this is not new) and he cannot shield you from US-based censorship. That is where the servers live. Imageboards strive to provide blanket anonymity for those who want it. When you throw it to the wind through your posts, you are the one denonymizing yourself. There is no excuse for not knowing an admin can see your hashed IP, as I've said before. This isn't some new concept. Opsec preserves anonymity in the same way that no matter how good a security system is, no one can stop a moron from giving all of the information necessary to access it to someone down at the pub in casual conversation. If you care about anonymity, practice it. It is impossible to have a system which prevents people from denonymizing themselves without censoring all posting of personal information.

Summary, if someone:

>doesn't practice opsec at all

>posts valid personal information about themselves

>…on boards of their enemy who they know censors the fuck out of people obviously doesn't care about them, or free speech, or anonymity

>…on the website where that is explicitly allowed because you can make your own board and run it however you like

>…where anyone can test out being an admin and see the exact capabilities it entails

>and then does something illegal to that person

>and that person then shows their hand as someone who doesn't give a shit about freedom of speech or anonymity or their users (no shit) by handing their creepy dossiers off to the FBI apparently detailing illegal things they talked about doing

>and then they cry to HW and blame him for not protecting them somehow for their own stupidity

Then really, how is that not entirely their fault?

Let's say HW betrayed his own principles (again) and removed the admin rather than just make the token gesture of talking about it. This would not stop any other admins from gathering dossiers if they're going to. They can just do the exact same thing only not announce it on their own board when they hand the docs to the FBI, and HW will never have any clear idea whodunnit, nor will anyone else. There is absolutely no way HW can protect you from exposing your own identity if you're going to, even if he got rid of persistent IP hashes (which would make spam cleanup a much more tedious process, and which on /operate/ was generally argued against).

>Don't defend bad site security by pinning it on the users

Security cannot prevent you from exposing yourself. Ever. 8ch is based from the ground up on the "anyone can be an admin" policy. The security hole in that is obvious. 8ch was never, ever, from the beginning, meant to protect your anonymity at the expense of user freedom to create and manage their own boards. HW has betrayed that himself a few times before, and been rightly called out on it.

>>396

To reiterate: 8ch allows for free expression within the confines of US law. The servers are in the US. The FBI/NSA/whoever can be watching you all the time. They can make boards. They could own 70% of the boards without anyone ever knowing if they don't do what Acid Man did and actually post that they are doing it right on a board. This should be readily apparent to everyone given that anyone can make a board. Hotwheels can do nothing about it unless he closes off board registration, which defeats the entire purpose of 8ch's existence. Your anonymity has always been yours to protect, on 4chan, on 8ch on any given board, everywhere.

P.S.: Your internet service provider is also logging your activity. Even if they say they aren't. If you're not using proxies of some sort, even though 8ch ISPs can't see who you are, your ISP can see what you're connecting to, what files you download, and what you're posting unless you make sure you're always on HTTPS.

Those are just some more things HW cannot protect you from.

>>397

I think that if there's someone who owns a board saying that he's going to report you the FBI, even point the FBI in your direction under false claims, then that's enough to remove that BO.

>>374

I'd be interested in seeing more imageboards built around clear-cut moral, practical, and security issues. I have a few somewhat intricate ideas myself for building "utopias" which if I ever get the time I'll try out. Preliminary functional rulesets to maximize freedom of posting and minimize interference from mods without clear-cut circumstances. I think Next will be a boon once finished; as it's open-source, people can always change things they dislike.

One of the problems with imageboards is that, by all indications, whether they're large or small you have to constantly be deleting cp because many anons are actual constant retards, which wears down moderation teams.

Agree about IRC, but I've been over that before so I won't add to it here.

>>375

Write something on one of the following either in a general thread or in its own thread depending on which seems more likely to receive attention:

beta.8ch.net/next/

beta.8ch.net/fucknext/

Any of the other main beta boards honestly.

infinitydev.org/infinity/

8ch.net/next/

8ch.net/operate/

IRC

etc, etc

Depending on if Josh sees it and what mood he's in you may get somewhere if he hasn't already made a decision about the thing you're asking about.

You could also open a git issue, but you know, on any project that's just asking for a "won't fix" with a brief justification.

>>>/ggrevolt/78292

I think my time here is coming to a close.

>>395

It was doing very well up until page freezes crippled it, and they had to move twice. Yes, the people there are happy and the people that bitch make a full time job of bitching about the site, so I don't know just how valid their complaints are.

>>394

>It's pure cowardice.

I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing that. Cowardice or laziness, I can't decide. What I gathered from that, if it's true, is that he honestly doesn't care at all. He's going to handle the technical end of things, but when it comes to the people that make up the site, they can get fucked. Pretty similar to the pattern of behavior I've seen from him.

>>400

>Jim is now censoring dissent as well.

This is rotten to the core. I have been mad at HW and his ilk before, but this situation is even worse than what triggered the exodus.

I wish I had the knowhow to set up an alternative, but alas, I have to wait until I am led to one.

>>401

Masterchan's looking pretty good about now.

>>378

>I understand you're desperate to defend your messiah

If you lurked in /operate/ at all, you'd get how funny this is.

>because otherwise you'd have to do the uncomfortable task of admitting you put your faith in an FBI informant in a huge error in judgment

If you'd actually read my posts just ITT you'd realize how funny this is.

>Acid's actions speak for themselves.

They have since almost the very beginning, he's a prick and I've been saying it since the last gg bustup when they shilled his new board. I briefly gave him the benefit of the doubt once they botted and shilled it up irretrievably after the other board was set to take its rightful place by legit popular opinion, but quickly realized no he really was as shit as I suspected. On the rare occasion I went to /gamergatehq/, it was without fail to tell you not to be retards and trust Acid Man, upon which I was told to stop shilling and invariably banned with everyone returning to their hugbox. Now here you are telling me I'm the one who got taken in by Acid Man because I'm pointing out that you should be less retarded and stop revealing your identities. What have you never seen /cow/ or something?

>And all this has managed to do is showcase the complete ineffectiveness of Libertarian principles in being properly practiced, since "freedom" as a goal leads has lead us to our freedoms being infringed by Acid's FBI buddies. Freedom can't be a goal, because it always makes itself less free.

Actually it works fine if you're smart enough to do the very obvious rather than begging for obviously immoral, manipulative and censorious admins to fuck you. No one who actually gives a shit about their freedom of speech or anonymity should just be carelessly posting on /gamergatehq/, ever, and this isn't new information. Hotwheels never intended to create a safe space, he intended to create a permissive space. That extends exactly to the boundaries of the site and no further. The FBI will not be more permissive, nor will the US government.

>>382

I'm glad to see this. This is extremely well said by Hotwheels and in keeping with the fundamental principles of 8ch. It seems like a lot of people don't know or are confused about 8ch's principles, and some of that is copypaste's fault to begin with, but at least now we have some consistency. Definitely archiving these, thanks for posting them.

Take this section here:

<Janitor01> I disagree. It's like the reddit system
<Janitor01> "go make your own subreddit"
<Janitor01> that rarely works
<Janitor01> ggrevolt is proof of that not working

So it's obvious that ggrevolt doesn't just want HW to protect them or whatever. No, they want the rules changed, the fundamental site changed, so that they can be in charge and have control and only moderate the "right" way. That would be a website which enforces free speech. 8ch allows free speech. I have myself thought of making an imageboard which enforces free speech and disallows admin spying, and I may do exactly that at some point, but it is a two-edged sword and not one 8ch has ever pretended to wield to my knowledge. The open board system with migration is the system 8ch is built around, it will not change, it was never going to change, and it does work for everyone but the dregs of the two biggest migrations who just cannot or will not take their heads out of their asses and abandon their safe, censored spaces with shitty 4chan-tier administration for greener pastures and continue to participate in BDSM shenanigans with their shitty dysfunctional moderation, then complain to HW about it while refusing to choose a different board, or make one themselves. It's psychotic. Board migrations have worked without fail when admins were shitty enough, or admins would resign on their own over user complaints, except when associated with the core cults of /v/ and /pol/. I don't think it's fair to expect HW to fix stupid and I'm glad he's wised up and stopped interfering in board affairs, though it would be nice if he'd knock off his passive-aggressive man-on-the-mountain approach of never posting. Maybe he'll quit sulking when Next comes around, remains to be seen.

In that IRC log, he resolved why the Rubicon was crossed; because impersonating the FBI is highly illegal. With that resolved, it seems like he's acted perfectly appropriately…but it seems a lot of anons (and here I'm doing my best to assume good faith despite some extensive personal suspicions) just never really understood how 8ch was meant to work. Well, I spent my time on /meta/ and I've read the FAQ more than once and board non-involvement short of legal issues is how 8ch was always meant to work. HW was wrong before when he interfered (especially with /sp/, but also with /pol/ and with asking the admin of that one board to delete something), and he's right now that he's stopped, according to the founding principles of 8ch.

>>403

look at the screenshot of when Hotwheels first said why he was removing him as a BO, "having and FBI agent as a BO is not good for the users"

For a second there, he acted like he cared again, and then changed his mind.

>>386

Good stuff, glad to have those archives. This is all in keeping with HW's actual policies and provides a good marker to note that they have not changed. Thanks for digging.

>>388

The whole site, I mean the whole site flipped shit on HW for the /pol/ thing and they were right to, and he apologized. To be fair, /pol/ is uncommonly shitty, manipulative, and infuriating, but that doesn't in any way justify what HW did. Ironically, HW holocausting /pol/ even gave them a strong legitimate base to push

>muh persecution

to the rest of the site and pretend that /pol/ used to be something other than pages of

>shill detected

and HW ruined it.

So he deserved all of the flak and blame he got for that one.

>>392

Just have to repeat one more time: this was always how 8ch was meant to be. The HW who interfered in board affairs is the one who was traitor to his own cause. This is him doing what he said he'd do…with regards to leaving boards alone. He also said he wouldn't withdraw from the community, but he has.

There's nothing wrong with goatbro (I think that's the same BO), but there was something very wrong with HW not waiting for the board to go up for claim. In fairness, the previous BO was violating the spirit of the rule by just logging in, doing fucking nothing, and logging out. But then, in fairness, everyone but toothpase and a few other no-fun-allowed people wanted a very loosely moderated, spammy, power-level-listing, porn-posting fun board where sports also got talked about…which is what goatbro ended up running.

So the argument could be made that a new admin really wasn't that urgent for /sp/, and either way HW should have just stayed hands off like he said he would.

>>395

They all moved over to beta to shitpost and talk about divegrass because their server was kil. You just missed the bus I guess. Go there, it's cool.

>>398

Right, and you have a point, I'm not saying that would be a bad or unreasonable policy for a website to have. I'm saying it wouldn't be a magic bullet, and that it would undermine the morals and organization which 8ch specifically was built on. It can never be all things to all people, and credit where it's due, HW did make his role in board operations plain in the beginning and on the FAQ and what documentation he did write up. He failed to abide by it and for a time fell to "but this is how it really is", but he realized he was sabotaging his own system and pulled himself back up. If he can now come out and actually talk to people and be transparent once Next is implemented, hopefully we can continue to improve mutual understanding. I mean, you get how the constant /intl/ and /pol/ and /leftypol/ shills masquerading as genuine concerned users would get him down as they waste his time false-flagging, right? It annoys me as much as anyone else to be just brushed the fuck off about a legitimate concern because they don't think my tone is subservient enough, but it's not as if they have no motivation to be sick of people's shit, either. All that said, it is their responsibility to actually maintain some sort of half-decent communication with the userbase, even if a good quarter of it is just retards and shills. HW was adamant about that from the beginning as well and he needs to live up to it.

>>400

To be honest here, I'm kind of getting the impression that you want a kind admin more than you want a fair admin, which is a truly terrible policy for any site with a large userbase, especially one that hosts multiple clashing communities and allows free expression of the full range of ideologies, because kindness can be manipulated, used by one party against the other on false pretenses, whereas fairness cannot unless evidence is fabricated, which takes effort and can often be exposed. I know no one wants to hear it, and that's noted, but you know who's the best at manipulating kindness? Social justice warriors and everyone who shares their ideology. There's always a reason why more rules have to be put in place to protect people, and why central authority has to keep limiting any given institution more and more. If the central authority ever doesn't, it's just because they don't care about you. That is the kind of well-meaning "let's compromise" thinking that has led to a worldwide nanny system where people can get sued or jailed for things that shouldn't even be illegal or even controversial, and even what's legal people are hesitant to do because of social stigma or being accused of harassment of some kind for disagreeing. It always starts small, honest, and well-meaning, but when policy is abandoned for kindness, there is then no stopping the train without someone pointing out the unfairness. Since HW was foolish and tried to be kind to show he cared, now he's realizing he has to stop it, and he's doing it, and everyone's rightly pointing out that it's unfair, but it's better than the alternative.

>>401

Jim has said multiple times that /jim/ is where he shares pics of himself and his life, it's a personal blog, it's for his mom and so on. It's not meant to be another /operate/. This has been made clear time and again on /jim/ but people (starting, of course, with /intl/) insist on going there and posting about their shit on his personal board, and instead of just deleting their threads from it (as he said he should do), he's so far actually given some sort of response. Now, I would not have deleted that one comment if I were him. (I saw the archive from before when I made my own archive after).

I would have told them that was not what the board was for and that I was going to delete the thread in three hours when they'd all had a chance to read, and then I would have done that.

However, I'm not the admin of /jim/. /jim/ is, and it never promised any freedom from moderation; it is his personal blog, for his personal use. I would not have made mine as any 8ch board, but again, it is not my thing. If we're going to criticize Jim for being eccentric, I think we all have to back up a little and take a good look at 8ch as a whole. Were he not eccentric, were he an actual NORP, he sure as hell wouldn't have offered to host 8ch back when every other host was dropping it and HW was low on cash and out of options.

Frankly, it's discouraging when everyone ignores actual issues with global mod inconsistency when people like me point them out, because they have no power to affect them, but then when something like this happens everyone's all up in arms displaying a total lack of impartiality or understanding of how 8ch works.

>>404

Good. He remembered that admins need to be fair and not be manipulated by kindness. The only thing that can ever protect freedom of expression is a combination of admin non-involvement (without legal obligation) and admin impartiality in function.

Hotwheels as an anon would love to tell that useless faggot Acid Man to fuck off and just blow him straight out, but the same could be said of lots of faggots. I don't think he even likes Mark, not anymore at least. If HW starts ripping shit mods up by the roots for the good of the people, the short term effect is an increase in post quality and diversity and muh freedoms on the boards where the populations are too stupid to migrate to boards with less shitty moderation. Long term, though, the population that's too stupid to do that will be unable to handle something that's not an Orwellian hugbox and will always demand to somehow go back to that. But even worse, then 8ch will go from being "you can make your own board and run it however you like and the globals won't interfere unless it's illegal, and if you don't like a board you can make an alternative" to "You can make a board and run it as long as you conform to Hotwheels' arbitrary whims and his personal vision for what the site should be and how anons should and should not be able to post".

Which is exactly what moot did, which is exactly why 4chan went to shit. Because, and this was sort of pointed out to me by someone from the bibanon IRC (I know, I know, IRC…I got logs, don't worry) - moot's vision for the 4chan community constantly interfered with the actual community.

Now, HW is making a point not to interfere, and everyone's just acting like his non-interference somehow interferes with their posting. That could not be more false. His non-interference (and the non-exclusive nature of boards) is exactly what prevents your posting being interfered with.

To paraphrase Jefferson (I think):

"He who would sacrifice great and enduring liberty* for a little temporary security deserves neither* and will lose both** is a massive faggot.***"

*admin non-interference, anyone can make and run a board how they wish

**it's slightly harder for people to expose their own identities through stupidity because admins are punished if they use the IP hashes they already must have access to for nefarious ends, and then openly post about it, which they usually wouldn't, they'll get b&…that right there is extremely little security

*** you are begging for the hotpockets

**** globals in control of board management, elite circlejerkers controlling all major boards to a much greater degree than now (I've already widely criticized the board admin circlejerking on /undina/ and /opeate/, so yeah I'm quite aware of it), and still nothing stopping people from going full retard and revealing their identity for both circlejerking admins and mere users on ID-enabled boards from dossiering them and sharing anything with anyone including their parents or the FBI

* Like a cubed faggot, really faggy

>>406

Oh yeah, spoilers. Well, that fucks up the footnotes, but those of you who know how spoilers work should still be able to interpet it.

>>406

Are you on voat? did you follow that drama with the /askvoat/ subverse that they were talking about in the logs?

Basically they had cancer mods on a large subverse, and the admin stepped in to ask what should be done about it. Admin listened to the community, weighed the options, and passed a decision that everyone was satisfied with. They weren't going to remove the mod, but they delisted the subverse.

>>406

>Jim has said multiple times that /jim/ is where he shares pics of himself and his life, it's a personal blog

And I wouldn't have faulted him for deleting the thread because it was outside of the board's topic. But he didn't. He only deleted the one post calling him out.

THAT is one clear example of mod inconsistency.

delete if this is a doublepost pls

>tfw ignored by /dir/ BO

>>408

8ch is like Reddit in (some minor aspects of) functionality; Voat is like Reddit in community and functionality with some compromising changes.

I actually do not go to Reddit at all unless someone gives me a specific link to something. I get that a large portion of the users of all imageboards browse Reddit regularly while screaming on imageboards about how anti-Reddit they are as some sort of weird roleplaying, but I actually just do not want to participate in it. I'll scrape content from relevant boards if I want that content, but I'm never going to have an account there. Not with shadowbanning and so forth. Karma is cancer.

That said, I did give voat a look just to see if maybe it was actually okay. The first thing I saw was some discussion about someone being banned from some group or sub by the globals, not the users, for posting too many vitriolic comments of some political sort…probably it was some stormfag or other.

So I turned 360 degrees and walked away never to return. I'm glad 8ch isn't (usually) like voat.

>>409

Jim's not a mod and if he edited every single one of your posts to say "I am a silly yogi" there would be nothing wrong with that…or if he'd done it to just that post.

But I did take note of that one post in particular being deleted when I saw the previous version of the archive I was making. Posted both archives in /watch/ for posterity. It's nothing wrong at all, but it is significant I think.

>>411

what are you even arguing about? Every post of yours is a wall of text that hurts to read

BOs are releasing post history of users, this is a problem that needs to be fixed. It's not up for debate

I don't give a fuck about acid man and nobody should

The plot thickens. Apparently Acid is into some more heavy shit (if this is legit).

https://archive.is/MfDae

>>412

Oh, come on. If you want byte-sized simplistic opinions, that's what Twitter is for. I'm providing information and giving in-depth opinion.

>It's not up for debate

This. This right here is why I compare people to SJWs. "Hotwheels NEEDS to protect us by doing something he never intended to from the beginning of 8ch and this is not up for debate, it's his duty to change positions and change the site because I said so." Fuck you twice. Yes it is up for debate. Everything is up for debate. This is not 4chan.

>>413

governments are getting your de-anonymized posting history on an anonymous imageboard dedicated to free speech and you have no problem with this

sorry moron but the problem here is with you

>>413

>This is not 4chan.

It isn't? I am less convinced of this every day.

And yes it's his duty to change positions if his initial positions conflict with eachother and as a result has abandoned them in the past already. Of course he should at least publicly engage with his users to and explain his position.

He was not okay with an FBI agent as BO two days ago, but is okay with someone who is on first name basis with one and furthered 8chan user info to them using his special BO privileges, which he attained by striking a personal deal with IRCwheels?! muh board autonomy my ass.

Your autism crusade in favour of BO autonomy is, in this case, defending an self-admitted hotpocketeer felon. And even futile because HW showed that he doesn't care about this site and abandons his libertarian ideology whenever he sees fit anyway.

>>405

>In fairness, the previous BO was violating the spirit of the rule by just logging in, doing fucking nothing, and logging out. But then, in fairness, everyone but toothpase and a few other no-fun-allowed people wanted a very loosely moderated, spammy, power-level-listing, porn-posting fun board where sports also got talked about…which is what goatbro ended up running.

>So the argument could be made that a new admin really wasn't that urgent for /sp/, and either way HW should have just stayed hands off like he said he would.

It was over the BO starting a banner thread, then ignoring 2 months of banner uploads out of laziness. HW fucked up by passing it off, but really, there's been no major difference between the two boards apart from a lack of yuros.

>>384

Once I get the money, I intend to do that. I know /sp/'s looking at leaving.

>>414

Nice false flag there. Which magic wand did you want Hotwheels to wave to make people not post on boards with IDs and abusive hotpocket admins, again?

The one where he takes over all boards himself and you can just blame him directly whenever you have a problem?

>>415

No, I'm not defending anyone, actually. I'm explaining how 8ch has always worked and why it should continue to work that way. If you can't even separate people from policies, why should anyone take you seriously?

New from /b/, it's /leftypol/'s board owner on /ggrevolt/.

>>416

Honestly, guys, I hate to say it because I really want 8ch to work out, but I don't know if it's going to. It's actually more the userbase than the globals, from my perspective, that's the problem. It's just that I talk about the admins and what I can fix there because the userbase is beyond saving. Everything is infected by the proxy war between /pol/, /leftypol/, and outsiders who are obsessed with the "this free posting thing cannot work and I must show it cannot work so it won't be allowed to continue" thing, like an edgy messiah complex.

I've watched the things 8ch did right and wrong and I think there could be a less free, yet still bearable imageboard with the right setup and distinctions made. It would never be as good as 8ch had the potential to be, and there would need to be plenty of banning retards (like "old 4chan" only less arbitrary, which is sad because I dislike that atmosphere), but I feel I could maintain the objectivity to admin a sort of shitposting and content heaven without reducing it to an echo chamber. However, I haven't the funds or the time or the experience or knowledge to set up Infinity or run servers, and it seems really cold to just grab it as soon as it's done and run off with it, open source or not. I really doubt anyone would want to run and pay for servers so I could try to build an autistic utopia. Frankly, Hotwheels got really lucky with that one. Granted, if you just absolutely tossed out the pedos altogether based on their without-exception destructive behavior and bad faith on 8ch (and how the continue to endlessly spam cp here and on 4chan necessitating endless cleanup), you could avoid some problems with hosts, but it wouldn't stop them from spamming cp anyways so cleaning that up would still be a significant chore. An active, public policy to report all cp spammers directly to whichever authorities could fuck them up the most might be somewhat effective on the lazy/timid ones, and would be lulzy.

The problem I have with going to anyone else's autism castle is…I've talked to a lot of people on 8ch, and I just don't know if I trust any of them to consistently and reliably make official moderation decisions in a manner that follows a policy they lay down to the letter and regardless of their own emotions or situations. I know if I were writing up rules for an imageboard, there would be detailed clauses for "if any given group does these things to this extent of spam, and evidence of it can be presented, they can face this consequence". Because, practically, static rulesets do always run the risk of exploitation by borderline retards who think they "found the flaw".

>>397

I never called for Acid's removal, and never asked for a tutorial on what the internet is, fag.

There is absolutely no reason for a board owner and his volunteers to have access to all this information. Fixing that would make 8ch objectively better without contradicting its mission statement.

I pity you if you have nothing to hide and nothing worth sharing that could identify you. That means you're a very, very boring person.

>>418

So you didn't read the part about hash ephemerality, then.

You also didn't read the part about how I stressed everyone should always take steps to remain anonymous as admins cannot do their opsec for them.

That or you just don't get how lying about what I wrote, to me, in the thread I wrote it in, is impractical.

Really, if you're not going to read the thread, just don't bother responding.

inb4 complaining about walls of text because actual information doesn't always fit in a tagline.

just found this >>>/list/

well that didn't take long

>>420

Can't say I'm surprised. If he's willing to put in the upkeep, good for him. I'm fine with passing the torch at this point.

>>419

typical tripfag behavior.

contrary, narcissistic, self-aggrandizing

can't admit that your posts could benefit condensing? i get that it's english as second language, but still, you clearly grasp enough of it to avoid cringe thesaurusposting, disorienting syntax, and weedy rhetoric

it does all attempting to participate discussion with you a disservice. wot=r

>>417

the one that removes the ability for BOs and volunteers to see post history (the only thing enabling them to track their users)

>Nice false flag there

you don't even know what 'false flag' means

>>422

Yes, it's my fault you responded without reading and have a sharply limited vocabulary, anon.

>>423

So what I'm hearing is you've actually never looked at how mod.php is set up.

>you have no problem with this

That is the false flag. If you didn't even read, what are you responding for?

>>424

you're the fag who jumped in arguing with me idiot

all I said is we need to remove the ability of board owners and volunteers to see user post history in the first place to prevent them from leaking it to the feds so that there is no problem

>>426

I really feel that you made a purely impulsive decision without really thinking this through when you decided to do this. From reading some of the posts in this thread, and a few others across the site. Its clear that people are somewhat divided

over this issue. Perhaps you should have simply made a thread to discuss this issue, rather than closing down the whole board. That would have been a good middle ground.

It'd really be a shame if you stopped contributing to 8chan. I honestly found this board to be incredibly useful, and i loved that "The Differences Between Boards" page you recently made.

>>427

I'll put that directory and those pages back up, but I'm honestly a little upset that someone mirrored my board in response to this. And yes, while it was probably a little bit impulsive on my part, I wanted to start a conversation on the topic, and unfortunately, to not just become another guy ranting about the state of the site, you have to do something to draw attention to it. On top of that, the changes in attitudes regarding how the site operates really upset me, and honestly, it still does. What's the difference between this and the shit that Jim and HW circlejerked about Hiroyuki doing? Remember that, how they got mad about Hiroyuki peddling info to political parties? Now they're defending a BO doing the same exact thing, and HW is even encouraging it because he's asshurt that people are questioning his decision-making.

I guess you're right, though. I don't want to cause collateral damage as a result of this. I'll go back to doing what I do. This is for the community, after all.

>>427

>>428

so I suppose there is little reason for >>>/list/ to continue to exist

>>429

Yes and no. If people like it better, they'll go there.

Hopefully Josh puts a nice enough system in Next that neither board needs to exist.

>>433

You might want to copy over the list on /list/.

They did an audit and updated all the board titles.

>>434

Their standards are a bit different than mine, but I'll give it a look. It just didn't feel right to me, doing an audit until the site rolls over. Too many posting problems, and you never know who will leave because they dislike Next.

>>394

IRCs seem to bring nothing but needless and cancerous destruction to boards. There was a recent event on /b/ also happening with another IRC blunder, some complete slop getting it after a few months and completely gutting a board.

>>435

fair enough, but you ought to at least compare the board titles. /argentina/ is no longer AskReddit for example. Theses were all updated on /list/

>>438

I'll do that when I audit again.

Note to #BO:

there is no reason to audit now, as changes will be reverted when Infinity Next is out

>>443

Looks like HW's advertising this board again. If you want /dir/, email me, okay?

>>446

/politics/ mod here. Just want to say, you are doing a great job!

BO here. I handed the board off to the owner of /list/. He'll be running things here from now on.

Thanks for using my little project, anons. I really appreciate it.

>>448

thanks for all you have done, if you have any issue or criticism of how I manage this board let me know anytime