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3e47f4  No.6357

Other than denomination, what factors should people look for in a church and when should we break with a church.

1. Doctrinal differences

Should we leave a church because they are or are not calvinist, arminian or they hold pre-millennial or amillennial views? Of course we don't want to go to a mormon church or a LGBT friendly church- but how extreme does the doctrinal differences have to be before we leave.

2. Sinfulness

Should the sinfulness of the congregation come into play. I've never been to a church where I've seen them kick out a repeat sinner. Should this be something to consider?

3. Preaching

How important is preaching in a church? If the preaching is terrible and unedifying, but the doctrine and congregation are good, should we stay? If the preaching is good should that keep us in church despite a sinful congregation and bad doctrine.

4. Community

How important is a community in a church? My finding is that protestant church communities and small groups tend to be pretty insular and hard to break into. Catholic churches on the other hand tend to lack community.

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5a17d2  No.6363

I would say that all of these are necessary conditions (doctrinal orthodoxy, church discipline, sound preaching, fellowship), but I would prioritize the preaching. Preaching is the most important thing that happens every Sunday morning.

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bbefda  No.6370

>>6357

Agree with >>6363 that all four of these criteria are equally important. It's like a four legged table: Overemphasize, or underemphasize a leg or two, or even be missing one or two or more, and the table is effectively useless (unless you're s fan of Post-Modern "art", which is unfortunately an apt metaphor for your typical Liberal mainline church.) Overall, a good church should have a fairly good balance of all four aspects, rather than us overly compromising on some aspects for the sake of others.

>1. Doctrinal differences

Outside of blatant and flamboyant heresies, I'm still working through this myself. For example, I'm not a fan of Calvinist theology, and consider myself firmly in the free will/Armenian/Molinist leaning camp. Nevertheless, Calvinists have some great resources and scholarship, and many seem to have great faith in Jesus. For now, I stick with a congregation that is in favor of my aforementioned inclinations, and refuse to attend a church with a firm Calvinist stance.

>2. Sinfulness

Obviously, expecting perfection is not realistic. At the same time, there is a line where a congregation as a whole is clearly not even trying. Ultimately, in my experience, it's the little things that add up. Such as a casual acceptance of cussing, lack of friendliness, and a general vibe of worldliness that's hard for me to put into words. It's like what one individual once said about pornography (roughly paraphrased off the top of my head): "I don't know how to precisely define it, but I know it when I see it."

>3. Preaching

Absolutely important. Should be passionate, edifying, and informed. I like the church where I go to, in particular, because I get the best of both worlds: topical preaching on Sundays, and expository preaching, going through books of the Bible, on Wednesdays. If it's boring, flat, and lacking vigor; if it's obviously the product of Biblical ignorance or a poor education; or if it's just feel good self-help new agey platitudes, it's no good.

>4. Community

Critical, and should not be overlooked. Worship and learning are obviously important, but there is a reason why the Greek word used in the Bible for church (ekklésia) means "an assembly", and not "a building." Ultimately, the body of believers make a church. We are not only there to worship, sing hymns, and be educated. From the church, is where we should form our closest friendships, and relational bonds; a place for us to engage in fellowship; carrying each other's burdens; discussing the Christian life; praying for and encouraging one another; sometimes even gently correcting each other in accordance with Matthew 18:15-17; and also from where we should find our future spouses, and subsequently a healthy community that forms the village that helps us raise our children.

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