c40556 No.5886
Gays are reprobates. So why not kill them?
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21b334 No.5887
>>5886
Because we don't have the continuing biblical prerogative to from leviticus, and since we won't have a God-ordained theocracy until the millennial reign it would be better to remove them from your society unless they committed an offense with a victim (pedophilia, gay rape).
Plus they aren't necessarily reprobate meaning all incapable of receiving salvation, homos can repent
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0e9be5 No.5888
>>5887
Hold on now, do we really need a God ordained theocracy or a millennial reign to enforce God's law.
For example the Levitical law punishes murder and we also punish murder, in some States with the death penalty just like the Levitical law. The fact that we don't have a biblical prerogative to punish murder, doesn't mean it's not a good idea to punish murder.
Why should we not do the same with things like fornication homosexuality and adultery. In the past we did punish these things through the law, perhaps not as harshly as Levitical law, but certainly we didn't just let it go. . . And the level of degeneracy was much much lower in those times.
I mean really isn't the fact that we don't punish sexual sins through law enforcement just a product of the sexual revolution and the increasing secularization of society?
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21b334 No.5889
>>5888
Capital punishment for murderers goes back to Noah. Our use of it is not an arbitrary application of Leviticus.
Leviticus is a book of laws for the Hebrew nation at that time. When it makes moral declarations ("it is an abomination"), that is an absolute judgment from God, but when it gives an instruction on a punishment ("they shall surely be put to death"), other nations aren't failing by not having such a policy in place.
We, not being OT Israel, are not collectively sinning against God somehow by not killing fags (or adulterers, or kids who curse their parents) because he didn't tell us to.
>I mean really isn't the fact that we don't punish sexual sins through law enforcement just a product of the sexual revolution and the increasing secularization of society?
Naive. The moral revolution, sexual revolution, civil rights movement, etc. were all enabled by the state. The US people at large were against it all at every turn.
Giving the government more power is always the wrong idea, because the government is inevitably corrupted.
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0e9be5 No.5890
>>5889
Isn't that the same argument that pro choicers make
"we shouldn't give government power over people"
And I don't know if the old government established by God wasn't corrupt. Saul certainly became corrupt, So did David when he married Bathsheba, so did Solomon by his foreign wives -
Heck even parts of the OT like ecclesiastics talk about corrupt judges and government officials
God never stepped in and said, "hey guys, looks like the government is corrupt, better put a hold on the law for a while
Heck by your arguement we shouldn't have any laws altogether because government is corrupt
Yes we should stand up to bad laws and bad enforcement, but the fact that bad laws and corrupt enforcement exist is no reason not to push for good laws.
Further, why would something be a good law for old testament Jews and not for us. I understand the cerimonal law was to set them aside as God's peple and doesn't apply after the coming of the Messiah - hower the civil and moral laws weren't done for that purpose.
Why was the civil law a good idea for old testament Jews and suddenly a bad idea for anyone else, that makes no sense. Wouldn't God have made the best possible law for his people?
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d536e0 No.5895
>>5889
Are you a Christian? If yes - you're not under Mosaic law anymore. Turn to Christ with all of these thoughts. Nowhere in the New Testament it says to overcome govermnents and enforce your will on sinful people. There will always be sinful people who reject God, and putting them in a state of oppression won't change anything. You won't force them to be saved, why bother that much what people around you do? Take care of your local Church, prepare as a Bride for the coming of Christ, who will come for His church
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d7afd9 No.5897
>>5890
>Isn't that the same argument that pro choicers make
No, they make the argument that abortion is a right that the state needs to provide at the taxpayers expense
>Heck by your arguement we shouldn't have any laws altogether because government is corrupt
As little as possible yes
>Why was the civil law a good idea for old testament Jews and suddenly a bad idea for anyone else
It was a bad idea for them too. The Hebrews begged to be like the other nations against God's wishes.
>>5895
What? How am I arguing for oppression?
I'm saying that the government ought to be severely restricted in favor of voluntary interaction. Right now the government forces you to serve fags at your restaurant, and forbids you under thread of force from refusing service. That is oppression.
Maybe you replied to the wrong post?
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fad60d No.5898
>>5888
>For example the Levitical law
Are you a Levite? Are there any Levites? Levitical law has nothing to do with us. "For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also."
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e4b06f No.5907
It's only ok to save gays.
Killing them is a grave grave sin.
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035230 No.5909
>>5907
murdering themselves is a great sin - but executing people who engage in homosexual activity after a fair trial seems to be in line with scripture and a buffer against a degenerate society
Lets face it, there was a time when the legal system took action against homosexuals and fornicators, and social ills and degeneracy was much less of a problem back them - we didn't have the legions of single mothers, the STD epidemic, the loneliness and spiritual deadness, the disconnection from community . .
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e4b06f No.5915
>>5909
>seems to be in line with scripture
The spirit of the scripture though?
Back in those days the executed them because they couldn't afford the resources for prisons and quarantine facilities like we can today. They didn't kill them to punish them , but to stop degeneracy from spreading to the youth. Today we can do that without killing them by separating them and working for their salvation in isolation.
To reject reason for the sake of literalism is against the spirit of the Gospel.
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035230 No.5921
>>5915
>Back in those days the executed them because they couldn't afford the resources for prisons and quarantine facilities like we can today.
I don't believe that's true
>They didn't kill them to punish them , but to stop degeneracy from spreading to the youth.
That's probably closer to the truth - killing them serves as a powerful a deterrent effect for others while also removing from society a person who - if allowed to continue - will drag others down with them
so when exactly in your opinion did these concerns of deterrence and removing the authors of confusion and degeneracy from society stop being a concern?
The issue I take with people who say that the civil law was just for the Jews is this - if the civil law came from God - wouldn't it's principles and goals and general rules be the best possible set of laws. I understand that not everything can be transferred and applied exactly from dessert Israel society to ours, but it should at least serve as the close template for the laws of just society
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d7afd9 No.5929
>>5915
what is the "spirit of scripture" and why would it matter against the text of scripture
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e4b06f No.5933
>>5929
Jesus rejected the pharisees because they concerned themselves with the letter of the law and not tue spirit of the law. What kind of christian are you if you don't know this?
>>5921
>I don't believe that's true
But it is. Prisons were few and far between and resources were sparse back then, keeping people locked up was a huge waste and it was reserved mostly for important prisoners.
>killing them serves as a powerful a deterrent
It also serves as a powerful incentive to drive them undeground and infiltrate your society.
>so when exactly in your opinion did these concerns of deterrence and removing the authors of confusion and degeneracy from society stop being a concern?
It didnt I just got smarter about it. If you have a fire of rebellion and you keep spilling oil at it, you are going to get burned. You will never detect all homosexuals. And the ones you dont manage to pick off will grow resentfulmand worm their way towards positions of influence. They have all the time in the world to do that because no wife or kids tie up their resources.
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035230 No.5935
>>5933
1. Prisons didn't not exist back then because of sparse resources, they weren't used because people understood they were a retarded solution to crime
2. >[killing them] also serves as a powerful incentive to drive them undeground and infiltrate your society.
see pic related
>It didn't I just got smarter about removing degeneracy]
what you mean smarter than God when he wrote his commandments?
also
>Jesus rejected the pharisees because they concerned themselves with the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law.
Do you have an example of this? Because I don't see that in the bible - that seems like a modernist concept
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035230 No.5936
>>5935
here is "pic related" from previous post
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50edc8 No.5937
In the ideal Christian society, we would help fags to become normal. Sodomy is an abomination. Locking people in cages is already torture and prison in the Western world is definitely torture, but the Bible says a lot of things that people don't get locked up for, like adultery, are capital offenses. We need to help some people to become normal, force others to become monks, and execute others.
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fad60d No.5940
>>5933
>Jesus rejected the pharisees because they concerned themselves with the letter of the law and not tue spirit of the law
No he didn't. He rejected them because they ignored the letter and spirit, they followed crazy babylonian superstition. What kind of christian are you if you don't know this?
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e4b06f No.5965
>>5940
The pharisees were all about following the letter of the law and think themselves above everyone else for doing so.
>He rejected them because they ignored the letter and spirit
So you agree…
>they followed crazy babylonian superstition
prove it
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e4b06f No.5966
>>5935
Well then you clearly must read the bible more.
Start with Matthew 23.
In the New Testament, Pharisees are seen as people who place the letter of the law above the spirit (Mark 2:3–28, 3:1–6). Thus, "Pharisee" has entered the language as a pejorative for one who does so.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines Pharisee with one of the meanings as A person of the spirit or character commonly attributed to the Pharisees in the New Testament; a legalist or formalist. Pharisees are also depicted as being lawless or corrupt (Matthew 23:38)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan (Luke 10:25-37) is one of the New Testament texts to address this theme. The passage concerns a dialogue between Jesus and an "expert in the law" or "lawyer". As described in verse 25 ("a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him saying, Teacher what must I do to inherit eternal life?," NKJV), the intent of the dialogue was to trap Jesus into making statements contrary to the law. Jesus responds by posing the question back to the lawyer, as already having knowledge of the law, ("What is written in the law?" verse 26) The lawyer quotes Deuteronomy 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind and your neighbor as yourself.", NKJV) and Leviticus 19:18. The question "Who is my neighbor?", that follows in verse 29, is described as being asked with the goal of self-justification.
It is then that Jesus responds with the story of a man beaten by robbers who is ignored by a Priest and a Levite, but then rescued and compassionately cared for by a Samaritan. Priests and Levites were Israelites whose qualifications and duties were very meticulously set forth in Mosaic law, (Leviticus 10, and Numbers 5-8) while Samaritans were descended from Israelites who had intermarried with their Babylonian captives and had been forced to establish a sect with an alternative interpretation of the Law. In the story, both the Priest and Levite follow their prescribed regulations dutifully, yet do not help the injured traveler, even crossing to the other side of the road to avoid possible rule violations. The Samaritan, whose very existence is based on a refutation of Jewish law, (specifically those post-Pentateuchal biblical books that identify Mount Moriah as the proper place of worship specified in Deuteronomy 12; the Samaritans considered only the Pentateuch canon, and worshipped Yahweh in their temple on Mount Gerizim) goes above and beyond simply tending to the injured man. He takes him to an inn and gives money for the man's care, promises and then actually does return to inquire about the man, and pay any overage incurred. Jesus concludes by asking the lawyer which of the men was a "neighbor" to the beaten traveller, to which the reply was "the one who showed compassion".[2] Then Jesus says to him "go and do likewise".
Now to the rest of your points
>1. Prisons didn't not exist back then because of sparse resources, they weren't used because people understood they were a retarded solution to crime
You cant prove that. And its not a retarded solution.
>what you mean smarter than God when he wrote his commandments?
which commandments? The ten? One of those is Thou shall not murder.
>>5937
>In the ideal Christian society, we would help fags to become normal.
this
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fad60d No.5979
>>5965
>So you agree…
No. You said they followed the letter and ignore the spirit. They did nothing of the sort, they ignored the law entirely. Modern judaism is the same as pharisaism, they follow the doctrines of the talmud.
https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/judaica/judaism-or-pharisaism/
>>5966
>One of those is Thou shall not murder.
Executing criminals is not murder.
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e4b06f No.5984
>>5979
See >>5966
They did follow the letter and ignore the spirit of the law. Its time fo you to admit that you were wrong.
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fad60d No.5995
>>5984
>the bible is wrong because my feelings say so
That's not how it works.
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e4b06f No.5997
>>5995
Except the Bible itself says that following the letter of the law over the spirit of it is wrong.
See >>5966
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035230 No.6004
>>5997
none of those verses cited in the example shows the pharisees following the letter of the law
In fact I can't think of a single part of the bible where the pharisees were following the letter of the law over the spirit
I see several verses where the pharisees were accused of teaching man's law for Gods (ie teaching things that were not in levitical law) and several others where they were accused of nullifying the law with their added commands (eg swear by temple but not gold in temple etc) but that's making the law null in void.
I can't think of a single time where they are shown following the letter of the law. They accused Jesus of not following the letter of the law, and Jesus outwitted them, but there is never a time when they themselves were shown following the law.
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fad60d No.6015
>>5997
I didn't say otherwise. I said pharisees did not follow the law.
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699da2 No.6019
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848844 No.6022
>>5887
>homos can repent
This. Some of the most powerful Christian testimonies come from ex-homosexuals.
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e4b06f No.6028
>>6004
>none of those verses cited in the example shows the pharisees following the letter of the law
Even if that was true, the point I was making is that following the letter of the law over the spirit of it is wrong. Now did Jesus come to cure the sick or did he come to punish the guilty?
We can find several stories in the NT where Jesus forgives sinners and even saves them. Jesus in his acts shows charity. He loses his cool against money changers, not adulterers, fornicators or the like.
Not to say that sexual sin is okay, but Jesus demonstrates forgiveness, not punishment, so in His spirit, homosexuals should be helped, not killed, because they are sick.
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741ad7 No.6032
>>6004
>t.being a contrarian in order to dodge having to reflect on the teachings of Jesus regarding forgiveness and curing the sick
Protestantism was just the codification of pharisaic attitudes.
Come to orthodox and repent your heresy!
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361186 No.6033
>>6032
How is that contrarian?
You're just asserting that your bad, novel take on the sin of the Pharisees is the majority one.
They were hypocrites. They said one thing, but disobeyed it. They had political objectives over obedience to God.
You're only encouraging the internet larpodox stereotype of being all platitude and no substance.
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e4b06f No.6036
>>6033
>novel take
Troll detected.
/sage
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