/christianity/ - Christian Theology

>>5352

The only ones who will enter heaven are sinners.

Sola fide- Grace transforms you to nofap

Faith plus works-Grace is steriods to help you nofap

>>5367

The righteousness that merits your entry into heaven isn't your righteousness, it's Christ's imputed to you on account of your faith. Otherwise, you would have to be sinless, which nobody is.

>>5480

^This. A "Faith plus Works" based system is doomed to devolve into a "Works plus faith " or Works, period, system.

>>5367

>A.: No. You can repent only while you are still alive.

Exhibit A. No one dies in a so-called "sinless state of grace", outside of a supposed theoretical perfect death bed confessional right before death ("But the thief on the cross!"

If simply calling out to Jesus in faith "Remember me in paradise" after simply acknowledging deserving to be crucified, is a "perfect death bed confessional", that's a pretty low bar, and only serves to reinforce sincere faith, over the work of a perfect death bed confessional) , or theoretically becoming a so-called perfect "Saint" in the Catholic/Orthodox sense. All of us are going to die in some state of sin, whether it be unconfessed due to lack of opportunity, because of forgetfulness, or because of ignorance of the true weight of an action, or simply because of the fact that we will never reach full sanctification until Heaven. It is because of this hole in in the Faith plus Works based system, that extra-biblical loopholes, like purgatory, aerial toll-houses, particular judgments that can be prayed out of/worked out of by others, and a differentiation between "Mortal" and "Venial" sins, were invented.

And what do you get when you have systems in which you use your works to pay off the aerial toll house/particular judgement demons for your forgotten/unconfessed sins, or where someone else can either pray you out or alms/work you out of purgatory? You get more Works.

Only a transformation into a new man with a new tendency to fight against sin, and have righteousness and grace imputed through God's grace and mercy can biblically break the endless paradoxes requiring the invention of "bug fixes" created by a "Faith plus Works" system.

>>5358

^This also. Once again, the latter option puts you in the mentality of relying upon your own efforts and flesh, rather than on God. Also, the transformation brought about by Sola fide is often caricatured as instantaneous/"sin boldly from now on". It does not deny the process of greater spiritual growth and maturity brought about God himself through Sanctification. If one should go right back into a state of "sin boldly" after supposedly being transformed, were they sincerely transformed in the first place?

>>5488

What you just said is stupid because it means sola fide turns the believer into nothing more than some utterly passive puppet that is moved by God. Is this what Sola Fide is? Sola puppet?

Sola Fide cannot even account for all the New Testament passages where a judgement according to works is supposed or mentioned. Various warning passages also give the impression that one who is justified can fall away. Even if justification is by faith alone. This is why some Protestants actually say that God takes works into account for the final vindication or that there are now double justification.

>>5489

I'm tired today. Tell me whether or not you're actually interested in careful debate about sola fide or if you're just going to carry on with those strawmen so I don't waste my energy please.

>>5492

>Strawman

>Doesnt explain

Fallacy fallacy 101

>>5489

Even in the Old Testament, Abraham's growth in faith, is growth into greater obedience and surrender to God. Going from "I have to lie about my beautiful wife or God won't protect me from lusty kings killing me to take her"/"God's not going deliver on his promise, so I'll go ahead and have sex with Hagar." to:

God: "Go "kill" your son that I kept you waiting for, for decades.

Abraham. "Okey dokey." *Proceeds to go on a multi-day trip at the crack of dawn, to "kill" his son without any hesitation whatsoever, and indicates his absolute unwavering faith in God's promise when he says to his servants that both him and Isaac would be back (this was no idle white lie/fib, as Abraham had full faith in God delivering on his promise through resurrection.)*

Even Jesus mentions numerous times about doing what the Father sent him to do. Even when tempted by his human nature to abandon his sacrifice, what does he say?: "Not my will, but yours."

"Works" is ultimately about greater and greater surrender and obedience to what God wants us to do. Considering we are to be submissive or obedient to God's will in order to imitate him, yes: our ultimate goal is to essentially become a puppet/vessel/medium for God to work through. You think that Jesus/God choosing fisherman and tax collectors for his disciples, a man with a speech impediment (Moses), a scrawny little boy to slay a giant (David), bearing a nation through a sterile woman past child bearing years (Abraham and Sarah) and converting a fanatical Pharisee with a thorn in his side to become the author of most of the New Testament epistles and one of the preeminent apostles/evangelists (Paul) were accidents or coincidences? No. They were for the express purpose of showing that by God being able to accomplish his will in literally anyone, regardless of them being considered lower/weaker/disdained by secular society/worldly reasoning, that it is God's efforts, not ours, that ultimately move the world. Vessels truly capable of being moved by God only come about by greater and greater surrendering to God's will by his transformation of our sinful nature. Outside of this transformation, or works are menstrual rags, because even supposedly "good" works outside of God will be tainted by subconscious motivations like ego or pride. Ultimately our only role is to decide and surrender. We have the free will to try to do things our own way (like that Satanic song sung by Frank Sinatra), but we only truly become instruments of God when we allow him to lead us.

Is judgement by works/bearing fruit a judgement of how well we did of our own efforts, or is it a judgment of how well we simply listened to and obeyed God. Even in the parable of the talents, the unrighteous servant was ultimately condemned for not simply following God's instructions. God does not say to the faithful servants "Well done, good and faithful worker of your own accord." He says well done good and faithful ==SERVANT== . A servant simply does what the master tells him to do.

As for falling away: once again, either lack of sincere faith, or a crisis of faith from which one eventually comes back from. I fell away for about a decade and half. Even then, I could feel the call of God to come back. I tried to shout this down, and even became a gold medal level mental gymnast. It was all for naught. Here I am today, right back where I was, and even stronger in faith for it. Once I confessed faith and was baptized, all those years ago, His divine foreknowledge foresaw what it would take and that I would come back to my senses. Even when I inadvertently sin and try to rationalize to myself "maybe there's no God, or maybe I can get away with this", I inevitably come back to him, as the vacuum and hollowness in the aftermath is too great. I cannot resist him. My fate became sealed as soon as I confessed him. Stumble as I might, I will go running back to him, because I can't go back to life without him. Life in sin outside of God is too horrible and unbearable once you've gotten a foretaste of the Kingdom. He is like an addiction that I never wish to be free from.

>>5496

I'm going to take that as a "no"

Thanks

>>5497

Ok I stand corrected, different anon. And good. I rather have an explanation than nonsense unexplained.

I am glad you conceded what I initially claimed by saying the goal is to become a "puppet". Except the problem is, nowhere in the New Testament is the agency of the one whom God acts through or works with is destroyed. Agency is retained. Submission would be a better word than "puppet" and suits how God acts through the person without destroying what makes the person a person. I have no issue with saying human works outside of God is worthless, because Paul says this. But works that are fruits of the Spirit are not the works that are rags. They are also necessary and since believers are commanded, simply saying someone who acts that way is the evidence of change, does not cut it. Not when passages like Galatians show how those who are seen as justified are seen as actually at a real danger of falling away or are not acting as they should as in James 2. True the role is to surrender and submit to God's will but that entails effort and works by extension. Why? Because the way God works doesnt negate the believer as acting. Passive activity is still there where the will is active in surrendering and being led by God. But that is synergism as there are still two wills active in salvation. Unless somehow sanctification is some bonus option post saved.

Making a distinction of being judged according to how well someone does and how well one obeyed God is irrelevant. Both still end up as judgements in accordance to what the person has done, and what is done through what is given as the Spirit is required for all properly good works. Every side of the debate believes everyone who works, do so not autonomously but empowered by Grace. It is only a matter of acknowledging the active role of the will vs it being purely passive.

I mentioned Galatians and James 2. These two instances show Paul and James not saying their audiences never had true faith or were not sincere. They are both saved and justified. Pulling the foreknowledge card wont help you here because that is simply God acting in a manner that still reserve potencies and contingency. That means you still have the potential to fall away, a potential Paul takes as real which is why he kept on warning the Galatians and in the letter of the Hebrews, a very stern warning of this. Providence working to bring back those who apostasized isnt an answer, as God does it in a manner where the possibility of falling away is still there. Therefore implying OSAS fails, otherwise the stern warnings given throughout Scriptures would make zero sense at all.

So overall, a lot of words but still unable to show how sola fide can accommodate judgement and warning passages. There is a reason why even the hard determinist Qumran Jews never had a system where one is always saved, because that knowledge is only for God to know and perseverence to the end is ultimately how one knows which John's Gospel makes clear. Those who fall, were never the sheep that was given to begin with. The apostles in John 6 given their anxiousness shows how despite the fact that God gives whosoever to the Son, on the human level, those who truly are, must endure to the end, they cannot fall! Again, nothing about once saved always saved there.

A sinner cannot enter heaven. We are saved by trust in Jesus Christ that he died for our sins. The effect of that trust is that you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit cannot sin. That is why you can enter heaven after you are saved. God looks at you and sees the righteousness of Christ looking back at him.

You do not need to repent of sin to be saved. Repentance of sin is works(Jonah 3:10).

AFTER you are saved and until your body dies you still have the flesh(the Old Man) which can still sin. But since your spirit is permanently renewed there’s nothing you can do in the flesh that can soil the spirit to nullify your salvation.

“But what about pedophiles and homos?”

If you’re burning in lust for flesh that is not convenient then God already gave you up such that you cannot be redeemed in the first place. This is the Romans 1 reprobate doctrine. Yes, if you reject the truth one too many times, even God has a line. Remember Pharoah?

Just trust fully in Jesus Christ and then … rest.

Reading your King James Bible regularly and assembling with brethren will ensure that you will walk in the spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

>>5488

I like much of what you wrote here. But it seems that you think I am proposing a "salvation through works" doctrine while I am not.

Anyone having a true faith has love because anyone who claims to be in the light and hates his brother is still in the darkness. Anyone who loves his brother remains in the light, and there is no occasion for stumbling in such a person. (1 John 2:9-10) True faith brings love and love unites you with God in the Holy Spirit because who loves is born of God and knows God because God is love. (1 John 4:7-8) Union with God equals salvation. This is how the things work: when you love Christ you want to work for Him and Christ gives you to do greater works than his works because He loves you too. (John 14:12)

Do these works save you? No, they are just a "side product" of your salvation. If, however, you don't want to work for God, then you don't have love and if you don't have love then you live in in the darkness; such a person does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. (1 John 2:11) You know that Christ was revealed to take away our sins, and in him there is no sin. Whoever remains in him does not continue in sin, but whoever practices sin has not seen him and does not know him.' (1 John 3:5-6)

I am not sure if you are proposing that when one has faith, then he doesn't have to fight the sinful urges in order to be saved. If you do, then this is sad. If you think that you have faith but you don't work for God, then your faith is dead, you are like the one who dug in the ground the talent given to him by the Lord. When his Lord comes he will say Throw out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:14-30)

> If simply calling out to Jesus in faith "Remember me in paradise" after simply acknowledging deserving to be crucified, is a "perfect death bed confessional", that's a pretty low bar

This isn't a pretty low bar, not at all. The confession of the thief was a sincere renouncement of everything bad. If you renounce everything bad now, then you will sin no more and you will have works. And if you don't renounce the bad in you in such categorical way, then why do you think you will be able to do so on your dead bed?

While we are in these bodies, we can change our mind. In one moment we can be in the light and united with God and in the next moment we can turn to the darkness and to the insanity of the sin. The life of a Christian is like a life in a war where you have both victorious battles and lost battles. But the war ends with our death. At our death we are about to make our last and ultimate choice which will determine the outcome of the war.

> And what do you get when you have systems in which you use your works to pay off the aerial toll house/particular judgement demons for your forgotten/unconfessed sins, or where someone else can either pray you out or alms/work you out of purgatory? You get more Works.

Agreed.

> Only a transformation into a new man with a new tendency to fight against sin, and have righteousness and grace imputed through God's grace and mercy can biblically break the endless paradoxes requiring the invention of "bug fixes" created by a "Faith plus Works" system.

Agreed with a small correction. God does not force righteousness. If you want to fight against the sin, then God can strengthen your desire to do so. But God is not going to install a "new tendency" to fight against the sin if you hasn't already chosen to do so.

>>5497

> our ultimate goal is to essentially become a puppet/vessel/medium for God to work through.

A puppet is unworthy to be a vessel of the Holy Spirit. In the union with God one gets wisdom and knowledge, he sees what is good and agrees that it is indeed good, he knows what God wants and he also wants what God wants. You are right that the submission to God is important in our spiritual path. The union with God, however, produces not puppets but sons of the Most High.

>>5504

> God is stupid. When he looks at you he doesn't see your sins because Christ stands before you to cover them so you can cheat and enter the heavens. Salvation is cheating. And since cheating is a sin, don't even try to fight the sin. Just trust fully in Christ, rest and continue with your sins.

>>5521

>>5521

2 Timothy 1: 16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:

17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.

18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

Onesiphorus is dead

Faith is a spirit that can be described as a chick that wishes to be under the wings of God. If one stays in this spiritual condition called faith then naturally Works occur from it.

We are not to judge according to appearances but according to the inner conditions of our inner self as that is how God judges us.

Therefore two people that do works can have very different spirits. 1 may be of hell and the other of God.

Likewise one may judge that someone is not doing works and yet God might see their heart and see that they are in fact doing more Works than the one that judge them.

>>5693

God is a spirit and those that wish to worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

>>5696

Agreed

>>5696

Well one person of the Trinity is a spirit, but not the other two

>>5352

>If salvation is by faith alone and not by works, does that mean a sinner can enter heaven?

Everyone is a sinner, so obviously. Salvation means being forgiven for your sins, it does not erase them, nor does it negate the earthly consequences of them.

>Does it mean that we can continue in sin and don't have to fight sin through things like nofap?

No, you have to actually try to stop sinning. If you continue to deliberately sin, then you will not see heaven. Hebrews 10:26,27

>>5698

There is no trinity, that is complete nonsense with no basis in scripture.

True conversion happens by deliberate decision to turn from sin (change your mind) because the Holyspirit has drawn you to accept and believe on Jesus as the son of God. When you change your mind by his prompting and confess him as Lord you become a believer. It's life changing and distinguishable, and from that faith should flow the works. As many that were led by the spirit of God they are the sons of God. God will always look at the heart, the word of God doesn't return void it prospers in the thing that he sends it to, it either saves or condemns.

I was just reading Hebrews 6 and I was wondering to myself when he says v4 ''For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened - continue to v6.. I wonder if he meant it as a closed statement instead of a possibility? As in It's impossible for a true believer to fall away" or is he saying (emphasizing the if ) "It's impossible for them to return if they fall away" .. ? I would have to have a better understanding really, but what I do know is that Jesus said the only thing you won't be forgiven of is blaspheming the Holy spirit which is not believing in Jesus and always rejecting his spirit.

>>5707

Yes. So stop posting blasphemy like "the holy spirit is God".

>>6117

Christianity, just like the Bible, has always affirmed that God is triune. If you want to larp as some pseudo-biblical heretic be my guest, but not here.

>>6120

Quote the bible stating that the holy spirit is God. The bible clearly states, multiple times, that the Holy spirit is a helper, not God. Jesus confirms that the Father and Son are one, multiple times. He never suggests the holy spirit is part of that.

>>6133

>The holy Spirit has a helper doesn't preclude him being divine.

It clearly precludes him being God. And again, quote anywhere in the bible where it is stated that the holy spirit is God, or that God is three. The bible repeatedly states that the Father and Son are one. Where does it say the holy spirit is God?

>Why would anything non-God be listed beside God, to be said in the name of it?

Because the holy spirit is the Lord's messenger here on earth, sent to guide us. If the holy spirit is God, then surely you can quote scripture stating that, rather than just decree it must be so because you like the sound of it.

>>6140

>quote anywhere in the bible where it is stated that the holy spirit is God, or that God is three

> If the holy spirit is God, then surely you can quote scripture stating that

I don't need to, because not every doctrine needs to be explicitly stated. There are implicit doctrines that are equally valid, you can't do systematic theology without them.

Example: in your system, find a passage stating that Jesus and the Father can both be Good without compromising the oneness of God. You cant, because this is a christological paradox. We have to move from the explicit to the implicit.

Here's a challenge for your position, why would blasphemy of the Spirit be a sin if the Spirit is not God?

>>6132

>Quote the bible stating that the holy spirit is God.

Sola Scriptura adherents BTFO

>>6141

>There are implicit doctrines that are equally valid

Bullshit. Made up doctrines are not equally valid to those explicitly stated in scripture.

>You cant, because this is a christological paradox.

No it isn't. You're trying to invent a paradox out of nothing. We're not talking something esoteric here, just a simple clear question. What is the holy spirit? Nothing says or suggests it is God. It is explicitly referred to as a separate entity by Jesus, multiple times. It can not be God.

>why would blasphemy of the Spirit be a sin if the Spirit is not God?

"Why would coveting your neighbors wife be a sin if your neighbor is not God?"

>>6146

I don't think you understand what implicit means in hermeneutics. An implicit statement is one that logically follows but is not explicitly stated.

A paradox is a doctrine that is demanded by the text and is non-contradictory, but the details of which are left to divine mystery.

>Why would coveting your neighbors wife be a sin if your neighbor is not God?

Your sarcastic retort doesn't get you out of your conundrum.

Here's the logical problem

1. Blasphemy exclusively refers to God.

2. The Bible says not to blaspheme the Spirit.

3. The Bible is inerrant

Therefore

The spirit is God

Find the flaw

>>6159

>An implicit statement is one that logically follows but is not explicitly stated.

There is no such thing as an implicit statement. A meaning can be implied, a statement can not. Implied meanings are not equal to stated meanings because as we constantly see, people invent all sorts of implications that do not really exist.

>Blasphemy exclusively refers to God.

Quote scripture.

>The Bible says not to blaspheme the Spirit.

Quote scripture.

>Find the flaw

You making shit up instead of providing scripture.

>>6182

"no u" tier reply

My job is done

>>6189

>can't provide scripture to support his heresy

>my job is done

>>6132

>Jesus confirms that the Father and Son are one, multiple times. He never suggests the holy spirit is part of that.

On the contrary.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19)

He is a person because He has will:

"All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills" (1 Corrinthians 12:11)

And He is not some lesser spirit but God:

"Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit […] You have not lied to man but to God." (Acts 5:3-4)

It is by faith and grace that we are saved, but if you truely have faith you would desire to do works as well. Faith is what saves, but faith without works is dead. If you desire to be saved by faith without performing works, then you do not truly have faith.

>>6256

By grace, through faith. Your faith is the necessary condition for receiving God's grace.

>>6253

>"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Baptizing in the name of the holy spirit does not make the holy spirit god.

>"All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills"

The "he" who wills is God, not the spirit. Read the whole thing.

>"Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit […] You have not lied to man but to God."

Lying to God's messenger is the same as lying to God. That does not make the messenger God.

God is two, not three:

“Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness'” Genesis 1:26

“So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” Genesis 1:27

Jesus is the Father:

“Philip said to Him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father?’ ‘ ” John 8:9

“I and the Father are one.” John 10:30

He does not say "I and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one". The holy spirit is a helper, not God:

“I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you always.” John 14:16

Jesus will forgive you if you talk shit about him, but not if you talk shit about the Spirit. This clearly means they are not one:

“And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.” Luke 12:10

It is even explicitly stated that the Spirit has no will of its own:

"“But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me" John 16: 13-15

>>6263

>Jesus is the father

Absolutely not. They are separate persons.

John 1:18 NASB — No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

What do you even call your christology?

>>6265

Which part of “I and the Father are one." is confusing you? You have not seen the whole of God, only the Son. The Son and the Father are of one.

>What do you even call your christology?

The bible you fucking heathen.

>>6270

Your view contradicts all the numerous verses that observe the Father and son being separate persons. Classical christology reconciles the separate personhood but the oneness of God with the paradox of the Trinity. How do you do it? It sounds like you just reject the premise that the father and son are observed as separate. How can you do that faced with the verse I quoted?

Try demonstrating the Godly characteristic of being slow to anger when you reply next. You're being very aggressive for someone who's just asserting a position.

You should have both; works show your faith, and your faith influences your works

>>6263

>God is two, not three:

>“Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness'” Genesis 1:26

>“So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” Genesis 1:27

Where do you see "two" here? The two sexes? Really?

If you use a more literal translation, you will notice that instead of "mankind" the Hebrew text says "Adam", that is "man".

>Jesus is the Father:

And yet he prays to the Father. Schizophrenia? Or an actor playing before the audience?

Of course not! However, if you want to have proper understanding of how God is one nature in three persons and how Christ is one person with two natures, you have to ask humbly the Holy Spirit to help you. This is not a joke. Without this knowledge from above, you are like a blind man who doesn't realize his blindness, a fool. "I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see." (Revelation 3:18)

>He does not say "I and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one".

You'd better learn what the Scripture says, not what it doesn't say.

>The holy spirit is a helper, not God:

So now God is not helper? "Behold, God is my helper" Psalm 54:4

>Jesus will forgive you if you talk shit about him, but not if you talk shit about the Spirit. This clearly means they are not one

Watch out because you talk shit about the Spirit.

>It is even explicitly stated that the Spirit has no will of its own:

>"“But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me" John 16: 13-15

I've already given you a quote proving that the Spirit has will of his own. And your quote proves that the will of the Spirit is the same as the will of the Father and the Son. Why? Because there is only one God with one will. The will of the Spirit is the will of the Son and the will of the Son is the will of the Father.

>Baptizing in the name of the holy spirit does not make the holy spirit god.

We don't baptize in the name of the Holy Spirit. We baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, the one God in three persons.

>The "he" who wills is God, not the spirit.

Ah, the quote is very clear: "the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills". But yes, the Spirit who wills is God, you are right about that.

>Read the whole thing.

Actually, you read the whole thing:

"Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God"

There are different gifts but they all are given by the same Holy Spirit. All these gifts are our services to the same Lord Jesus Christ. All these gifts/services are activities (energies in Greek) of the same God the Father. Because any action of the Spirit is action of the Son and any action of the Son is action of the Father.

>>6272

>>6260

These two pretty much have it right, but I'll expand a little. It's the faith we have in Jesus that saves us (check out these verses https://www.openbible.info/topics/justification_by_faith_alone) but the works brought about by our faith show that our faith is strong and correctly placed. If a person puts their faith in a false idol they create, let's say they think Jesus said gay people don't go to hell, then their works will show that their faith is placed in that idol and not in the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus tells us to judge a tree by its fruit because we can't see peoples' hearts like He can, so we need to see the fruit of their faith to know whether they're faithful to Him or not. That's why faith without works is dead, because a saving faith is one that causes the new man of the spirit to do good works.

>>6278

>the works brought about by our faith show that our faith is strong

The works brought about by our faith show that our faith is not strong enough.

"Amen, I tell you that if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will tell this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you!" (Matthew 17:20)

Our weak faith (or even wrong faith for some of us) is not an occasion to be carefree like >>5504

"It is not everyone who tells me, ‘Lord, Lord’ who will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that Day, ‘Lord, Lord, did not we prophesy in your Name, cast out demons in your Name and do many deeds of power in your Name?’ Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from me, you who do what is wicked.’" (Matthew 7:22-23)