Question to roman catholics

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Question to roman catholics 02/12/20 (Wed) 08:43:31 8303ef No.827195

Matthew 16:18

<I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly(church), and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

I'm not asking about the rock. Don't talk about the rock itt.

I have often encountered Catholics saying something like "even if our church were corrupt, this passage indicates that the gates of hell won't prevail against the Roman Catholic Church. There will never come a set of circumstances which merit leaving our church"

My question to Catholics is, if you take this view, what would it look like for the gates of hell to prevail against the RCC? To me it reads like an unfalsifiable claim, even if the pope is a fag enabler and the Vatican is explicitly putting out a false gospel one could point to this and say that the institution is still valid.

The alternative reading that seems quite obvious is that the gates of hell not prevailing means that through the church we find salvation from punishment in hell. If you're in the church, you don't go to hell.

So if we can set some clear criteria to describe the gates of hell prevailing against the RCC, there's now a real argument about whether the criteria have been met.

For example:

>Saint Peter's basilica literally being destroyed

>The catechism teaching a false gospel

>The pope declaring a false gospel ex cathedra

>Woman priest

>Woman pope

>50% homo clergy

>Majority of parishes just not administering sacraments

Interested to hear thoughts

____________________________

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02/12/20 (Wed) 14:20:17 06f156 No.827199

File: 634b2f9e0571b0a⋯.jpeg (42.07 KB, 600x400, 3:2, C0D6D659-051F-4E06-9B88-B….jpeg)

The gates of hell prevailing would be the church being destroyed completely and nobody worshipping God.

Think of the first Israel temple - there were times when the king introduced baal worship, LITERAL santanic altars and LITERAL , direct, worship of satan. The books of Moses actually got lost for a long time. Yet there were still 7,000 (and only 7,000) that didn’t bend the knee to baal and stayed true to the faith. And later the book of Deuteronomy was found, the paganism was removed, and the temple restored and the faith ultimately prevailed.

So even though the first Israeli temple was a thousand times more heretical than the modern churches, the faith prevailed to our time. Similarly, we had centuries of terrible popes in the second millenia and absolutely horrible heresies (e.g. indulgencies) but these were corrected and did not destroy the universal church.

Not infallible in this belief, but I think that, like God humbled David’s line by alowing the North Israelite schism, so too he humbled the Catholic church by allowing the Orthodox and Protestant schisms. But just as he preserved the southern kingdom of David’s line, so too he has (and will comtimue to) preserve the apostolic Catholic church. The Catholic church has a higher retention rate than other denoms and religions and continues to grow in Africa and China.

So no, the church did not fall to the enemy nor has reached anything near what we have seen the faith endure in the past.

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02/12/20 (Wed) 18:57:32 f87487 No.827207

>>827195

Protestant chiming in… Like >>827199 is saying, even if the whole of the clergy were wiped out and the Vatican burnt down, from a Catholic perspective I still can't see them abandoning the idea that authority still rested with Peter's successor and the Catholic priesthood… They would just rebuild the Vatican, find new priests, and they would elect a new pope. I can't think of any set of conditions that could ever realistically be met by which you could with 100% authority say that the gates of Hell have prevailed.

At the end of the day, a Catholic has to lose faith that the Roman priesthood actually holds the authority that they claim to before they'd be willing to cede that something is fundamentally broken in the system.

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