e6c393 No.814401
Is contraception the root of the current state of moral depravity? Should a righteous government ban it?
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e6c393 No.814407
>>814401
>Pope Paul VI made four rather general "prophecies" about what would happen if the Church's teaching on contraception were ignored.
>Infidelity and moral decline: The Pope first noted that the widespread use of contraception would "lead to conjugal infidelity and the general lowering of morality.
>Lost Respect for Women: Paul VI also argued that "the man" will lose respect for "the woman" and "no longer (care) for her physical and psychological equilibrium" and will come to "the point of considering her as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment and no longer as his respected and beloved companion."
>Abuse of Power: Paul VI also observed that the widespread acceptance of contraception would place a "dangerous weapon… in the hands of those public authorities who take no heed of moral exigencies."
>Unlimited Dominion: Pope Paul's final warning was that contraception would lead man to think that he had unlimited dominion over his own body.
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591b88 No.814411
>>814401
It's the root of a lot of evils, but there is no righteous human government. If they can it, cool, if not, whatevs
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e6c393 No.814412
>>814411
>there is no righteous human government
Why not?
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7f6299 No.814700
humans have free will, government can only do so much. What the people need is conviction, and that's not being offered. Instead, society supports and pays for people to be gay and have their body parts cut off and pilled up, evil is called good and good is called evil.
1 Tim 6:10 the love of money is the root of all evil, think about who benefits from this decadence.
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fa3d34 No.814708
There is no single root of the ills of the modern world.
Just some retarded movements that have been cross-polinating each other for the past quarter millenia.
>>814700
> think about who benefits from this decadence
A funny assortment of greedy amoral folk.
And the devil, first and foremost.
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6f968a No.814787
Hardly anyone in the Church, even a large percentage of practicing Catholics and a few Traditional Catholics follow the Church's teaching on contraception. And it is not hard to see why, to be honest.
First off, the idea that everyone should be having as many kids as they will allow is impractical. Especially considering how we live these days in big cities. If every businessman, scientist or doctor was having 10 kids, we wouldn't be able to have the society we do now.
Even the Catholic Church knows this. That's why they relaxed the teaching on contraception and allowed the rhythm method back in the 50's. And the rhythm method is all well and good, but it is easier and more effective to just use a condom. The problem is trying to convince people that the rhythm method is more "holy" than a condom. I believe that the current explanation is that condoms are a more active blocking of natural function but the rhythm method is more passive. But its clear that the explanation isn't effective enough to convince people to not have sex for half the month when they don't want kids.
The teaching on contraception is a bit of an unusual problem for the Church. With other controversial things like homosexuality, the Church can appeal to things like natural law and reason and scripture. And even if people don't agree with it, the arguments are strong enough and are intuitive enough to accept. But with justifications for the contraceptive teachings, like the rhythm method vs condom teaching, it seems to the eyes of many as weak. Hence all the dissent on the issue.
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69f57c No.814793
>>814787
>First off, the idea that everyone should be having as many kids as they will allow is impractical.
Don't want kids? Don't have sex.
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d2db2b No.814794
>>814787
the natural method actually requires you to have a bit of an chastity and patience within marriage, whereas condoms ( literal demographic weapon against society ) do not, not even mentioning it's artificial.
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854ecc No.814805
>>814787
NFP is not Catholic birth control. If you are trying to not have a child (unless you have a GRAVE reason, like threat to the mother's life) that is onanism. And this is an erroneous idea of Catholic doctrine–these are not simply "ideals" (a popular idea about the sacrament of marriage too, currently) but integral to the Catholic faith.
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5c47f3 No.814807
>>814805
Onanism is masturbation or unnatural intercourse with a woman. NPF BY DEFINITION is neither of those. I think you should always be prepared to have children if you're going to do it, but saying it's onanism is false.
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72e229 No.814876
>>814787
On the contrary, I think the main problem is a lack of catechised Catholics and a sizeable population of lukewarm and cafeteria Catholics. I also believe that this problem extends to other denominations, but the Catholic Church is what I'm most familiar with.
The solution is simple then: teach our brothers and sisters the truth by living out the Word as is expected of us. Have big families with joy and appreciation of God's gifts to you and your spouse, and be steadfast and well read in your principles.
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b58a95 No.814879
>>814401
>Is contraception the root of the current state of moral depravity?
No
>Should a righteous government ban it?
Yes
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374333 No.814918
>>814916
>Contraception is removing liberalism from the genepool
I'm afraid this is not how it works.
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de27f4 No.814922
>>814401
People will fornicate WITH or WITHOUT it. Look at any 'cultural Catholic' nations that bans or discourage their usage or managed to turn contraceptive into something bad PR-wise for example, people there disregarded the use of contraceptions and a lot of people ended up something like trailer park trash family with 15 kids without proper support and proper care and those poor children will most likely grow up to be trashy adults. It is a symptom of something worse and to cure this pandemic we need to get it at the root of the problems, namely fornication.
What the worldly ministries should do turn the public opinion on fornication back to what it should be. Bad and shameful, to discourage people from doing it and the contraceptive problems will solve itself.
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cc435f No.814928
>>814401
In a lot of ways, yes, it is the root of moral degradation in the West. I would say it's an aspect of the general godlessness that is truly responsible for all our ills. Paul VI is very controversial because of the NO, but on this much he was prophetic. And, yes, a righteous government would not only outlaw contraceptive but they would also outlaw abortion and unnatural sexual acts. Don't think things like oral and anal sex are also inconsequential, they have the same principles as contraception.
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374333 No.814940
>>814922
>people there disregarded the use of contraceptions and a lot of people ended up something like trailer park trash family with 15 kids without proper support
I don't like this argument.
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1ab724 No.814975
>>814401
>Is contraception the root of the current state of moral depravity?
literally watch E.Michael Jones.
Contraception is the door who leads to faggot tolerance and faggot marriage.
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57b78d No.815070
>>814916
This is a very dangerous way of thinking, bordering on eugenics...
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faff57 No.815353
>>814787
>The teaching on contraception is a bit of an unusual problem for the Church. With other controversial things like homosexuality, the Church can appeal to things like natural law and reason and scripture
Contraception can also be perfectly explained by natural law. The final cause of the penis is what it is, and for similar reasons masturbation goes against natural law.
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44008c No.815426
This is pretty much the final boss for me. I try and follow all of the Church's commands, but birth control is just so painful for me. My wife and I are dirt poor and she is not very healthy, her doctor is not sure now is a good time for a baby for reasons I won't share here out of respect for her. But we love each other and long to show it through the act of love and hope to one day have children.
Obviously, birth control as it stands today (with basically 100% effectiveness) is just not natural and none of our ancestors had access to such technology. But then again, the medicine I received at the ER which saved my life and kept my heart from going into a more dangerous rhythm was also not available to my ancestors. I feel conflicted as all of this technology and medicine is somewhat against nature and yet only the sexual medicines are condemned by the Church. (I understand why of course). But if a marriage is open to children, I feel like birth control could be allowed for a reasonable time until people are healthy or not so impoverished.
Obviously that is contrary to the Church and I don't hold to it. But it's just a gut reaction to a few minutes of thinking. Anyways I'm a sinner and I need God's help, because we do use birth control at the moment. Pray for me I guess.
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65a730 No.815428
>>815426
Natural Family Planning. You can present your case to the local priest for prudential support.
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d1cf69 No.815454
>>815428
A fair response, but I personally know two couples who used it and got pregnant. A quick google will also show you forums filled with hundreds if not thousands of women who use it to the point of OCD and still get pregnant.
As far as i can tell, we are pretty much screwed. Her doctor is insistent that she currently remain on birth control for health reasons while we sort things out and so basically we can just never have sex until she is ready to have a child which could be 1-3 years from now. Not sure how things will go when we confront this issue, as I’m sure she didn’t expect to live as a monastic after getting married to me.
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65a730 No.815461
>>815454
well, it is a procreative act.
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591b88 No.815462
>>815454
Afaik using it for health reasons and not trying to prevent children, you can still do the marital act, and it not be a sin. This is what married Caths tell me, so if this is the case, you have no issues
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b807d8 No.815569
>>814922
>People will fornicate WITH or WITHOUT it.
Removing the "undesirable" (by worldy standards) consequences of an action is bound to increase the practice of such action, like removing punishments increases crime.
>and a lot of people ended up something like trailer park trash family with 15 kids without proper support
This is the same argument /pol/ uses to push abortion.
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