db533a No.807783
Christians, what do you think about abortion when a woman get raped? For me, you can't EVER punish the baby and kill him, but what are your thoughts on this?
____________________________
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842dbd No.807785
>>807783
If your position on abortion is that it is murder, then does your father being a rapist mean that you should be murdered? I don't see how a christian could support abortion under any circumstances.
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db533a No.807786
>>807785
I agree with you. Abortion is murder. But how can so many "christians" support it?
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c24bab No.807787
>>807785 I agree with this, however we need to stigmatize it to such an extent. Perhaps to punish abortion to a similar extent.
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27e616 No.807789
Copy-pasting my comment in the other thread:
Exactly. Also, I reckon it's not a sin to give your baby to adoption. Therefore, the victim, instead of murdering the baby, should give it up for adoption in the case she doesn't feel able to raise the offspring of her rape. As far as I know, there is a big waiting line for baby adoptions, so the child won't even have to live in an orphanage.
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842dbd No.807790
>>807786
I don't think most people bother taking their beliefs to their logical conclusion. It is already socially unfashionable to even be pro-life let alone the hard-line position that I take.
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981059 No.807791
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35c360 No.807793
The problem with rape is that 1) the woman could have hardly avoided it (so it's not a matter of having sex irresponsibly) and 2) there is a huge mental toll with having to bear and give birth to the son or daughter of your rapist.
Abortion is never acceptable, but there should be a little leniency regarding cases of pregnancy caused by rape. Abortion should absolutely not be the first option but it should remain an option. Let one's pastor decide what is the most spiritually beneficial option.
Abortion should absolutely never be considered at all in every other case, though. Not because of irresponsible sex, not because of incest, not because of high risks of transmitting a disease to the child, and certainly not because of eugenics. I'm 100% with outlawing abortion completely in all these cases.
Now, that's only my personal opinion, and I am not a pastor. The official response of the Church is more strict:
>Since the ancient time the Church has viewed deliberate abortion as a grave sin. The canons equate abortion with murder. This assessment is based on the conviction that the conception of a human being is a gift of God. Therefore, from the moment of conception any encroachment on the life of a future human being is criminal.
>The Psalmist describes the development of the foetus in a mother’s womb as God’s creative action: «thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb… My substance was not hid from thee, them I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest part of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance» (Ps. 139:13, 15-16). Job testifies to the same in the words addressed to God: «thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about… Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese? Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews. Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved by spirit… Thou brought me forth out of the womb» (Job 10:8-12, 18). «I formed thee in the belly… and before thou comest out of the womb I sanctified thee», says the Lord to the Prophet Jeremiah. «Thou shalt not procure abortion, nor commit infanticide» — this order is placed among the most important commandments of God in the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, one of the oldest Christian manuscripts. «A woman who brought on abortion is a murderer and will give an account to God», wrote Athenagoras, an apologist of the 2nd century. «One who will be man is already man», argued Tertullian at the turn of the 3d century. «She who purposely destroys the foetus, shall suffer the punishment of murder… Those who give drugs for procuring abortion, and those who receive poisons to kill the foetus, are subjected to the same penalty as murder», read the 2nd and 8th rules of St. Basil the Great, included in the Book of Statutes of the Orthodox Church and confirmed by Canon 91 of the Sixth Ecumenical Council. At the same time, St. Basil clarifies: «And we pay no attention to the subtle distinction as to whether the foetus was formed or unformed». St. John Chrysostom described those who perform abortion as «being worse than murderers».
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35c360 No.807794
>>807793
>The Church sees the widely spread and justified abortion in contemporary society as a threat to the future of humanity and a clear sign of its moral degradation. It is incompatible to be faithful to the biblical and patristic teaching that human life is sacred and precious from its origin and to recognise woman’s «free choice» in disposing of the fate of the foetus. In addition, abortion present a serious threat to the physical and spiritual health of a mother. The Church has always considered it her duty to protect the most vulnerable and dependent human beings, namely, unborn children. Under no circumstances the Orthodox Church can bless abortion. Without rejecting the women who had an abortion, the Church calls upon them to repent and to overcome the destructive consequences of the sin through prayer and penance followed by participation in the salvific Sacraments. In case of a direct threat to the life of a mother if her pregnancy continues, especially if she has other children, it is recommended to be lenient in the pastoral practice. The woman who interrupted pregnancy in this situation shall not be excluded from the Eucharistic communion with the Church provided that she has fulfilled the canon of Penance assigned by the priest who takes her confession. The struggle with abortion, to which women sometimes have to resort because of abject poverty and helplessness, demands that the Church and society work out effective measures to protect motherhood and to create conditions for the adoption of the children whose mothers cannot raise them on their own for some reason.
>Responsibility for the sin of the murder of the unborn child should be borne, along with the mother, by the father if he gave his consent to the abortion. If a wife had an abortion without the consent of her husband, it may be grounds for divorce (see X. 3). Sin also lies with the doctor who performed the abortion. The Church calls upon the state to recognise the right of medics to refuse to procure abortion for the reasons of conscience. The situation cannot be considered normal where the legal responsibility of a doctor for the death of a mother is made incomparably higher than the responsibility for the destruction of the foetus — the situation that provokes medics and through them patients, too, to do abortions. The doctor should be utterly responsible in establishing a diagnosis that can prompt a woman to interrupt her pregnancy. In doing so, a believing medic should carefully correlate the clinic indications with the dictates of his Christian conscience.
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3ed498 No.807795
>>807783
>Christians, what do you think about killing a baby when a woman get raped?
Please no.
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842dbd No.807798
>>807793
>a huge mental toll having to bear and give birth to the son or daughter of your rapist.
Does this justify murdering them?
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a0b490 No.807803
>>807783
No, a baby shouldn't be murdered under any circumstance. Put it up for adoption instead.
>>807793
>there is a huge mental toll with having to bear and give birth to the son or daughter of your rapist
There's a huge mental toll for many things in life. Enduring trauma from one individual does not give you a license to kill other innocent individuals.
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3c61a3 No.807804
>>807783
You can't punish the child for the crimes of thr father. Ergo rapebabies deserve life just like any other babies. Besides, rape/incest account for less the %1 of the abortions.
If we carve out exceptions for this statistical anomaly, eventually they Molochians will want more and more exceptions until an abortion ban is meaningless.
Rape and incest babies have a right to life too. They should not be punished because of the sins of their fathers.
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27e616 No.807809
>>807804
>>807803
This. And the woman's suffering can be somewhat diminished by adoption.
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3a5b83 No.807817
I am niether shocked nor suprised when people who are bought off say that not allowing abortion for rape is extreme. It's murder no matter what.
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073e28 No.807824
>sorry little jimmy; Your mom got raped so we're going to have to kill you.
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7a368d No.807832
Any compromised position is simply ridiculous as there is no right to kill a third party. That's the whole point. But people will keep being bought off into compromising in any possible way they can, if they don't really care about truth, but just want to "get along."
It just shows you who actually supports truth and who is only about appearances. All compromised positions are in principal no different to each other. But it's so easy to put one little chink in your position to cater to someone and still pretend you're not really abandoning the fight. That's how it shows you who is in it for appearances only and this issue really really shows that.
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79db9a No.807833
>>807793
abortion only makes it worse. She's going to feel guilt for the rest of her life regardless if it was a rapebaby or nah.
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dafa4c No.807835
Every single one of us has many ancestors who were the product of rape. If those children didn't deserve to live you don't either.
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456ee4 No.807846
Rape is not always rape.
What happens if a man and a woman conspire to have sex without a condom, and the woman claims rape only for the benefit of abortion? Even if the man is charged the woman would change her mind by claiming mental illness and the man would be set free.
I believe people are playing with fire and fraud here, and the best solution is to provide temporary sterilization procedures to prevent accidental pregnancies.
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3ee2a3 No.807865
What I what most people criticize on pro-life is that they don't care about them once they are born so they can now live in misery or poverty with families that didn't want them
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eb5fcb No.807872
>>807865
I've always thought that it was a dumb talking point. That's like stating why people should feel compassion from a homocide/suicide despite them never intervening. It still doesn't make murder acceptable.
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eb5fcb No.807874
>>807871
What OT did you read? The version where twitter leftists quote it out of context to justify their sins?
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9aed94 No.807877
>>807871
>Prohibiting abortion in case of rape would destroy societal integrity, because it would allow the most useless, retarded scumbags to have children with the hottest, smartest, best women by simply raping them.
thats a bit of a stretch friend; most women who are raped are often close to their rapist and know them; its pretty unlikely that at the top of the social ladder there's literal goblins accosting women and forcing them to bear their kids.
>The OT has several passages approving abortion, several passages approving the slaughter of children. It's all a matter of just cause for death, and being the unwanted child of a rapist is one.
The old law is no longer in effect, we follow the new covenant.
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eb5fcb No.807885
>>807876
Really? You're quick to believe in an implicit statement that can be interpreted differently by everyone else out there, but you want to deny an explicit commandment that condemns man to murder others? Unless if it explitictly states that infanticide is allowed, then it's not allowed.
I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but it's best to stick with verses that are clear cut. Don't fall for the lies of leftists because they all ultimately want to murder babies. Georgia permitted abortion in the case of rape, but they still said that it's not good. Give an inch and they will take it to mile to the point where they endorse infantcide.
Rape accounts for 0.5% of abortion. If you want to see what the majority of abortions are like, look at r/abortion. You'll see plenty of women who want to kill out of convenience.
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64b312 No.807918
>>807865
Even then it doesn't make sense as an argument.
<this baby will be poor and probably a little less fortunate than others
<so let's just kill it
I don't know about you, but I'd rather be living in poverty than dead.
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2b0e72 No.807938
>>807875
If we killed off anyone who was descended from somebody who displayed distasteful behavior, we would have to all kill ourselves.
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e42be0 No.807940
>>807783
You know, I dont understand why we cant develop ways to extract the fetus without killing it.
With modern incubators keeping it alive until it is old enought shouldn't be a problem.
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092182 No.807942
>>807786
They're low-iq normalfags who are easily swayed by abortion propganda
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15e912 No.807959
Women who procure abortions should be executed with the doctors
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ae87a8 No.807964
>>807959
I was about to say the same thing
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79db9a No.807967
>>807904
>>807880
once again, this shit right here is why protestantism is shit. Sorry if it looks like i'm looking for a excuse to shit on protestantism, but i just can't help myself to point this out.
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d31c51 No.807988
>>807959
>>807964
Or maybe they should be talked out of whatever hopeless situation they feel they are in instead, you know, like a Christian would.
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9aed94 No.807996
>>807940
that's a negative, at least in catholicism. iirc the church says that a natural birth with a child in the womb is what is best.
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79db9a No.808000
>>807993
lel no wonder russia's abortion abortion rate is the greatest in europe
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c8fe1c No.808003
>>807871
>it allows the scum of society to have children with the hottest, most intelligent women.
Your utilitarian and materialistic view of the human being is not supported by God or Christianity.
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99db01 No.808022
Murdering an innocent baby will not unrape her mother.
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8f8bde No.808024
>>808005
are you catholic?
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c8fe1c No.808034
>>808024
>>808005
>are you catholic
Previously not because Utilitarianism and Materialism are heresies.
t. Cat-o-lic
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c8fe1c No.808035
>>808034
>Previously not
I meant Obviously.
using autocorrect is apostasy
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2d96a7 No.808059
>>808022
No, but Christmases really suck when dad's there.
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2b5836 No.808082
As an Alabamian, it makes me happy all of these roasties, fags, etc. got so buttblasted about my state trying to be more Christian. Abortion is murder.
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3c61a3 No.808137
>>808132
No it wouldn't, modernist. Having her murder her own child will bring FAR more disgrace than having her take responsibility for her actions and carry the baby to full term. She doesn't have to keep it. She can always give it up for adoption. Murder of the most innocent of beings is never okay.
REPENT!
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149c23 No.808145
To abort a fetus conceived in rape is to meet evil with another.
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e42be0 No.808147
>>807996
I know it is not ideal but is the only way to make both parties happy.
In an ideal world, abortion woudn't be a thing but this protects a life.
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3c61a3 No.808181
>>808147
>wanting to make satanists happy
Why?
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3ed498 No.808185
>>807875
I'd start killing everybody on sight then because I can guarantee you that everyone is blood-related to a murderer, thief or rapist.
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5c2780 No.808193
>>807993
>The Orthodox church allows abortion in case of rape by turks.
Are you sure that is the case? A quick search would suggest that the Orthdox church makes the case against abortion in principle, thus it would be somewhat strange for them to back-pedel from it, even against turks and such:
http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/abortion.aspx
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Abortion
http://www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/abortion2.htm
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e578e6 No.808224
>>808193
>The high rate of rape resulted in the temporary permission of abortion in Cyprus by the conservative Cypriot Orthodox Church.[127][128]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus
I'm pretty sure that this has been the case throughout history.
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e578e6 No.808229
You people are Americans, you live in sheltered mixed-race societies of abundance where carrying out and even raising the child of rapist presents no significant discomfort to anyone. Ironically it is such dysgenic societies which are most suited for these strictest abortion laws that are incapable of bringing them into force. You think you will ever overturn Roe v Wade? Sooner will the US collapse.
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60c936 No.808238
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3c61a3 No.808252
>>808229
With God all things are possible, /pol/yp. Roe v Wade will be overturned and order will return to this nation.
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165af9 No.808253
>>808229
Cry harder, molochian
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98b44f No.808261
>>808252
I'm of the opposite camp on that one. I believe Roe v Wade will be strengthened, causing more trials and tests for Christians.
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7368e2 No.808263
>>807787
Not a nugget or 03 springfield… 98 mauser?
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3c61a3 No.808301
>>808261
>if you make legislation making abortion illegal the satanists win
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5dd54e No.808444
>>808263
Its a FN m/30 Mauser chink contract, made for one of their wars, possibly seen combat in Their brutal war against Japan.
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b59396 No.808461
>>808261
Strengthening RvW isn't going to help distract everyone. Instead, RvW will either be repealed remanding the issue to the states to keep the matter in the news for the next ever, or the Alabama law will be struck down by a slim majority depedent on RBG, keeping the matter in the news for the next ever. Meanwhile, trans-positive sex ed will be pushed on fourth graders on the theory that it would reduce abortions.
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b5f972 No.809131
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eb8d57 No.809149
>>809131
It takes two to tango
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b5f972 No.809155
>>809149
Do you know what rape is?
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cdbd83 No.809211
>>809155
Did you know that not all fornication is rape and is actually consented to?
Did you know that rapebabies still have the same right to life as anyone else? Did you know that abortion accounts for less than 1% of the reasons why women get abortions?
Did you know that no one has the right to murder anyone?
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589bf2 No.809219
All abortion is murder 100%, however I sympathise with those who would allow it for victims of rape. Rape is a brutal, life-ruining experience which can take an unbearably heavy mental and spiritual toll on a woman. Some women never recover from the experience, some go on to self-harm and even take their own lives because of it. Having first experienced the torture of the rape itself, if the victim falls pregnant then she has to endure nine months of her body being compromised - a normal pregnancy is an exhausting, painful, daunting emotional experience, but a joyful one in the end - pregnancy by rape will bring all of the hardships and emotional volatility of a normal pregnancy, but might bring additional hardships as the woman carries a constant reminder of her rape with her.
With abortion being available as it is now then ultimately it is up to each individual victim to decide whether or not she can bear the burden of rape pregnancy. regarding those who can't, I acknowledge it is a sin, but it's a sin commited out of desperation and the desire to alleviate one's suffering rather than out of carelessness or a desire to commit evil. Sins can be forgiven.
One thought I've had is that in such cases the rapist might also be held responsible for the murder of the aborted child, maybe that makes sense from a worldy-justice perspective but I don't think it gets to the heart of the issue and wouldn't make the situation any less tragic.
As a man all I can do is hope and pray that none of my loved ones ever have to suffer the horror of rape. Not only for their sake but for mine as well, it might sound selfish but I don't think I could handle it if a woman I love fell pregnant by rape. It would be a massive mental and emotional burden for me as well.
In a way it's a relief to see that less than 1% of abortions are due to rape - obviously every abortion and every rape is tragic but I take it to mean that conception by rape is very rare. Obviously where it happens it can't be ignored but it seems like abortion discussions always get diverted by exceptional cases like these and descend into whataboutism
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759339 No.809354
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2f6d80 No.809544
Their main argument (at least the ones who aren't patently evil) is that it's fine to kill that which is unborn. What are your arguments for life beginning at conception?
Some Christians say that foetuses are not life and instead property as in Exodus 21:22-25 if a woman is injured so as to have her miscarry, the aggressor's compensation to the husband isn't "life for life". Some misconstrue this verse to mean if she aborts it herself, which I can't see it being read that way in good faith.
Other arguments are a few Bible verses that equate the beginning of life with breath (Genesis 2:7, Adam's life began when he first drew breath). There are many more verses about life inside the womb, so I think this is easily dismissed.
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4dbdea No.809545
>>809544
Adam's life didn't begin with his breath. It began with God's breath. But ever since, this power has continued, like an eternal electrical current starting with Adam and animating all life automatically. Adam wasn't born like we were. He was formed from the earth. But we experience animation into life instantly and seamlessly. Not merely when we breath like he did, but when we are in our mother's wombs (which Adam didn't experience). The wonder of human life has never stopped since that first moment.
That argument about breath being the only indicator is borrowed from rabbinic thinking. The Jews are lost. No need to listen to them. Even the Didache condemned abortion, and that was a peer document with the Gospels and Epistles since it was written in the first century itself. And not only does it condemn abortion, but it separates that from the other crime of killing a baby when he/she is "born". They couldn't be more explicit and no one has any excuse. They knew the difference and both types of killing were equally repugnant.
"Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not corrupt youth; thou shalt not commit fornication; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not use soothsaying; thou shalt not practise sorcery; thou shalt not kill a child by abortion, neither shalt thou slay it when born; thou shalt not covet the goods of thy neighbour" - Didache 2:2
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89b62a No.809547
In Israel, abortion is 100% legal and 100% free.
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f8ae56 No.809553
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9beb06 No.809569
>>807875
Natural determinism isn't Christian.
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3c61a3 No.809570
>>809569
Seriously, this. Behavior is learned nit engrained in the DNA. If that were true than I would be an alcoholic like my paternal grandfather and uncles. It's a /pol/ish lie to justify hatred of all blacks and lump them in with ñiggers.
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62e05d No.811342
>>807875
>preemptive killing is justified
>people don't have free will
Are you sure you're a Christian?
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e87260 No.811448
>>807865
The child still deserves the opportunity to live a fulfilling life.
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f9068f No.811484
>>807865
By this logic we should kill born babies that live in poverty as well. We can't solve every single problem that comes with living in a fallen world, but we can point to literal baby-murder and say "hey that's wrong."
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2abc37 No.813882
>>807793
Agree. Plus the Church has been ok with capital punishment
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2c9a76 No.813883
>>813881
Except you aren't, baby murderer.
It makes no sense to punish the child for the sins of the father.
Babies conceived by rape have every right to life as much as a baby conceived naturally.
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