/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>781910

Ortho LARPers online do this. Real, actual Orthos in the real world don't do this. Spend more time in meatspace.

t. normalfag Catholic

I think it was the italians that developed the better lenses, wasn't it?

>>781912

This. You can delete your useless thread now.

>>781910

Satan did attack Orthodoxy and still is doing so. A lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yuz46szpTk

>>781910

>I've seen Orthos unironically use this

And I've seen Roman Catholics use the same pathetic reason as well. What's your point?

>the fact that satan is not attacking your church so heavily

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Eastern_Orthodox_Christians

https://chelorg.com/2017/12/02/the-kidnappers-of-syrian-metropolitans-did-not-intimidate-the-church-said-the-patriarch-of-antioch/

Conflating pedo degeneracy with satan "attacking" your church is nothing more than a weak cope. Don't forget that Rome still has blood on its hands for the persecution of Eastern Orthodox as well.

>>781942

>Don't forget that Rome still has blood on its hands for the persecution of Eastern Orthodox as well.

Motes and beams, ortholarp, or are we just going to pretend that events like the Massacre of the Latins never happened?

>>782009

>but muh venetians made them do it!

Great Nuremberg defense there. Quite fitting actually.

there was

>isaac II byzantine emperor

who was deposed and blinded by his brother

>alexios III

so

>alexios IV, the son of the deposed emperor isaac II

asked the crusaders to help him against

>alexios III

and in the end he ended up being blinded and deposed by

>alexios V

the sack of constantinople was

<an attempt to put the rightful heir in the throne ON HIS BEHALF

<while also fueled by the massacred of the latins

>>781910

>satan is not attacking your church

as a prospective Catholic, this is a bad argument. Christ also said "by their fruits ye shall know them"

>>782088

>Quite fitting actually.

guaranteed (you)s

>>782088

>the greedy bankers that refused to pay for the ships out of their love for Christ dindu nuffin!

>the greedy emperor that couldn't keep his word dindu nuffin!

>those orthodox civilians that killed all those Latins dindu nuffin!

>the patriarch that schismed dindu nuffin!

The Eastern Orthodox, the official religion for dindus that dindu nuffin! Wew

>>782135

>Catholic crusaders dindu nuffin cause it was those pesky venetians!

>>>/pol/

>>782143

>muh /pol/ defense

Also if you actually look at the previous posts you can clearly see that fault was already admitted on the Catholic side. All of those brutes were excommunicated. The fact that the Orthodox still can't get over the fact that they are also at fault for The Fourth Crusade is laughable. You literally are acting like a dindu.

Look, I'll be the bigger person. I forgive the Orthodox for not keeping their word and I forgive them for massacring those Latins. Now can you forgive the Catholic Church for the sins of the Venetian Bankers and the brutes already?

>>782158

You gatholigs were the ones that brought up the 4th crusade in the first place here. But of course it's you guys' favorite example to bring up because you can shift the blame to everyone else in that clusterduck, but that still has nothing to do with the RCC's more recent persecutions of the Orthodox in Eastern Europe. What's the point of all that fancy scholasticism if you guys just end up cherry picking your history anyway, and get duped into believing the Filioque is the only difference that matters between the East and West.

>>782164

>But of course it's you guys' favorite example to bring up

We can bring it up because it's a common Orthodox talking point, and purely an Orthodox talking point because Ortho-Protestant converts are too new to really know the circumstances or the precedence of the Orthodox using it as their holocaust.

The catholicity of the crusaders is not denied, but that they were excommunicated shows you where the Church officially stands on the issue.

>What's the point of all that fancy scholasticism if you guys just end up cherry picking your history anyway

no clue, what does the scholastic philosophy have to do with history?

>and get duped into believing the Filioque is the only difference that matters between the East and West.

there's no "duping" going on, nobody really knows (or cares) about the theological difference between the two Churches, only actual Orthodox bother to learn the Palamist energies' argument, everyone else just smiles and nods because the argument is just foreign and ultimately inconsequential.

I actually appreciate much of Orthodox theology tbh (not all, but much). But in a way, the actual things that matter on a practical day to day level is the body of believers you're also joined to.. and the culture you're in. Orthodox are so seperate from anything I know. I'd have difficulty even following yours feasts and fasts (or Lent right now, as we speak), without the constant surroundings that, say, a Greek or Russian has with all of their friends and loved ones around. It's a bit like intruding on a family home you didn't grow up in. I don't know how converts manage it.

>>782166

>what does the scholastic philosophy have to do with history?

Scholasticism has to do with using logic to find truth, a process that is obviously not limited to philosophy. Come on now, I shouldn't have to be teaching basic Catholic traditions to an Catholic! Then again, I have had confirmed and supposedly well educated Catholics try to argue with me that no religion can have The Truth, and that there's no proof for the resurrection, so I'm used to hearing crazy things from you guys by now.

>nobody really knows (or cares) about the theological difference between the two Churches

Thanks for proving my point. That still doesn't stop most of you guys from acting like divide is all political bs, as if any of you actually understand the problem.

>>782174

>Scholasticism has to do with using logic to find truth, a process that is obviously not limited to philosophy

…scholasticism is a valid philosophical school of thought with objective tenets, trying to re-apply that to some anons bringing up the 4th crusade on /christian/ is nonsensical.

>Then again, I have had confirmed and supposedly well educated Catholics try to argue with me that no religion can have The Truth, and that there's no proof for the resurrection

If some Orthodox came to me and said Dostoevsky was the secret Patriarch of Constantinople, would that make it ok for me to presume all orthodox are blockheads?

>Thanks for proving my point.

Which is? The energies argument is literally unknown in western spheres, there is no way you can take this argument and attempt to re-apply it 200-300 years before it was even a thing.

The West and East did not schism over the energies' argument, it is not the thing standing in the way of any reconciliation.

>That still doesn't stop most of you guys from acting like divide is all political bs, as if any of you actually understand the problem.

There isn't a problem. Nobody in the west has seriously treated the energies argument before, we don't even know if it is a problem.

>>781910

In general I would say you should be wary of anyone converting to any denomination or even different faith who converted not because of theology but for other reasons.

But yes what you're saying is fairly prevelant among Western meme converts and online larpers from what I know sadly.

May that change.

t. Hungarian Orthodox inquirer

>>782176

Was it your goal to see how many strawmans you could fit into a single post? Because if so, I think you hit your mark. The only thing I'm going to dignify with a response is bringing up the Essence/Energy meme, because that's literally always bundled in with the Filioque meme. News flash: there are bigger issues with the Roman doctrine than divine simplicity. The west's concept of "original sin" and the hack that is "immaculate conception" spring to mind, but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

>>782198

>Was it your goal to see how many strawmans you could fit into a single post?

Like?

>The only thing I'm going to dignify with a response

Weak.

>The only thing I'm going to dignify with a response is bringing up the Essence/Energy meme

It's not a "meme", the West has never seriously considered the argument before. Really cute that you instantly say you're going to address the "meme", then instantly start going off on other things.

>The west's concept of "original sin" and the hack that is "immaculate conception" spring to mind, but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Sure, go on. The difficulty that you'll encounter of course, is that you'll inevitably have to consider the idea that St. Augustine was actually a vile heresiarch, but that's a pitfall neither you nor any other Orthodox could ever hope to avoid. It's truly a thing of derision that you are saddled with a Saint you never be rid off, though you deny him constantly.

>>782298

I’ve found tradcats sometimes bring up the massacre of Latins in Constantinople by peasants as a kind of atrocity propaganda but they neglect to mention the crusaders sacked other Orthodox Christian cities that had nothing to do with that massacre. Mistakes were made on both sides and it isn’t either of our faiths faults today.

>>782210

>but do not conflate higher up professional opinion on Augustine with online Orthodox memes by the laity please thank you.

I don't, but if every Orthodox willing to open the mouth bemoans Augustinian doctrine every time; bewailing the Latins for "intellectualizing" Christianity, it is difficult for one to not come away with the impression that the wider Orthodox Church disdains the good Saint completely. The reason of God prevails, however.

>Calling St. Augustine a heresiarch or anything of that sort, or even anything less than a Saint is a Heterodox view simply and should at best be laughed at.

Thank you.

>>782302

Thank you too.

>>782614

I’ve never heard this said about St. Augustine, but many Orthodox believe the Roman church moved away from the mystical aspect of the faith and towards movements like scholasticism and rationalism. It’s sort of a generalisation but if you look at the Eastern icons versus the Western icons a difference certainly emerges. The West gets into naturalism but the East focuses more on mystic depictions, not totally lifelike.

Idk maybe it’s just I’ve just been staring at Icons for hours.

>>782646

I think that's more true of Protestantism.. and Catholics get unfairly bundled in it, because it's all the "West" to some.

What's worse is Protestants truly ran with the rationalist approach where within a few centuries, they produced myriads of pozzed scholars who doubted the scriptures.. and gave us the craptastic modern age we're enduring now.

>>781910

>If anything, the fact that satan is not attacking your church so heavily should be a sign that your church is not the true Church of Christ.

That doesn't really make sense unless you're already presupposing a given church is the true church. For example, an orthodox could argue that it is attacked by the devil, namely the catholic church, and a catholic could claim that protestantism is satan, or that sedes are satan, and even a prostestant could argue that other protestant movements are satan.

>>782647

It's definitely more true of Protestantism than RC. Some crazy sects even deny that there are any mysteries.

>every "Orhtodox" I've talked to online was just a larper and never went to an Orthodox mass

>>793780

You might spit on god but NEVER on God.

And what exactly do you consider God's failures?

And for which of HIS actions specifically should he take responsibility for?

God is not just a father.

>>793784

It is just a Charlie post.