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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: b2dc76707fcdf33⋯.jpg (27.53 KB, 810x500, 81:50, archbishop_durocher_1920x1….jpg)

e3a7ff  No.780165

Canadian archbishop pushes women deacons as ‘first step’

March 5, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – The time has come to take women’s place in the Church “seriously,” according to the Archbishop of Gatineau, Québec. The French-speaking bishop, Paul-André Durocher, openly promoted the idea of a female diaconate that would include the celebration of the sacraments of baptism and marriage.

He was speaking on Radio Canada’s Sunday evening chat-show, Tout le monde en parle (“Everyone’s talking about it”), where he had been asked to comment on the recent Vatican Summit on sexual abuse.

Archbishop Durocher made clear that he would have women play a ministerial role in the Church besides taking up increased down-to-earth responsibilities. “If women were deacons, for instance, they would have the power to celebrate marriages and to baptize. They would be part of management teams. I think that would be a first step,” he said.

This goes beyond the role deaconesses are purported to have played as “helpers” of the Christian community in the early centuries of the Church. Nowadays, male deacons, be they permanent or preparing for the priesthood – in which case, they promise to remain celibate –, are ordained ministers and have the power to celebrate the sacraments of marriage and baptism as well as being allowed to preach during mass.

The diaconate — being in this sense an element of Holy Orders — has been reserved for men in the same way and for the same reasons as the priesthood, which configures the ordained priest to Jesus-Christ himself, who was a male according to the flesh.

It is the same logic that traditionally prohibits girls from being altar servers and from playing a public role in the church as lectors or ministers of Holy Communion – although these traditions are often breached in the new Roman rite.

Durocher was somewhat circumspect in his statement, but went several steps further than previous trial balloons he had sent up on the same subject on previous occasions. Last Sunday on Radio Canada, he discreetly raised the even more controversial issue of women priests, stating that as far as priests are concerned, reality is more complex. “The problem on that level is that the Pope has said that that could not change, that women could not be priests. The only way for that change would be for there to be a plenary council of all the bishops on that issue, and that won't happen for a long time,” he said, noticeably avoiding any statement on the radical impossibility of allowing women into the priesthood.

The Archbishop of Gatineau clearly wants to move forward in stages. He is of the opinion that “we should work now on what we're capable of doing,” in particular in the local churches, in order to make clerical institutions more egalitarian.

The idea of promoting women in the church is not a new one for Paul-André Durocher. A prominent member of the Catholic hierarchy in Canada – Durocher, 64, is a former president of the Canadian bishops’ conference –, he was present at the second Synod on the family in 2015 in Rome where he devoted his own three-minute intervention entirely to the “place of women” in the Church.

At the time, he suggested allowing them to hold decision-making positions within the Church and to have access to the permanent diaconate, making a distinction between “ministry” and “priesthood”: “It's a just question to ask. Shouldn't we be opening up new venues for ministry of women in the Church?”

He also brought up the question of preaching by women – going directly against St. Paul's ban on women teaching within a church –, by asking the Synod fathers to “look at the possibility of allowing married couples (…) to speak during Sunday homilies so that they can testify, give witness to the relationship between God's word and their own marriage life and their own life as families.”

(cont) https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/canadian-archbishop-pushes-women-deacons-as-a-first-step

11a924  No.780173

>>780165

>Canadians being Liberal

News @ 11


bffe46  No.780371

Why does the church not issue rebukes to these people pushing obvious false doctrine? It would be so simple to just tell him to shut up about this kind of thing qhat he's saying goes directly against the teaching of the RCC.


8130a4  No.780384

>>780171

The council of Nicea wants to talk to you.


8130a4  No.780386

>>780371

Because it would have to kick out 50% of its clergy, which would be good tbh, but they are the ones in charge.


8130a4  No.780392

>The only way for that change would be for there to be a plenary council of all the bishops on that issue, and that won't happen for a long time,” he said, noticeably avoiding any statement on the radical impossibility of allowing women into the priesthood.

This bishop has got the theological knowledge of a rock.

St. JPII decision about no women in the priesthood is infallible and binds all catholics to it.

It could only be revoked if Jesus Christ himself came down here and said he was wrong during some councils and when the pope spoke in His name, which will never happen unless the Antichrist comes and is larping as Jesus.


1b8dd6  No.780430

>>780384

The Quinisext Council wants to talk to you.

Nicea I says that deaconesses in the Paulianist sect are not considered clergy by the Paulianists so they are not to be received as such. It does not say that deaconesses in the Orthodox Church are not clergy.


00eca3  No.780437

>>780392

It's not infallible based on what he said, it's infallible because it's true but not based on his statement, it wasn't ex cathedra, it was just an encyclical

However if we had a real pope someone would just make an anathema for women clergy and homosexuality and be done with it


bb451d  No.780478

>>780430

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Catholic Church rejected that council?


bb451d  No.780479

>>780437

It wasn't an encyclical and the pope spoke with authority and forcing all catholics to believe this. Those who don't are anathema.

Of course the pope had no need to say it since it was already Catholic doctrine.


1b8dd6  No.780485

>>780478

It was organized as an addenum to the 6th ecumenical council, so that the 5th and 6th ecumenical councils may actually have canons. Canons of the Quinisext Council are mentionned at Nicea II as being those of the 5th and 6th councils. Pope Sergius I's apocrisiarii had assented to the council's decisions, but the Pope himself rejected them, because the council attacked a lot of Roman practices, with the intention to harmonize Rome's practices with those of the other patriarchates. Pope Constantine would eventually give verbal assent to the council, except for those canons that attack the Church of Rome's practices.

Anyway, deaconesses in Western tradition were laywomen, and deaconesses in Eastern tradition were clergy. I am not Catholic. However, please don't die on a hill to defend that deaconesses were never clergy. The Roman Church was not the sole Church to exist before the schism, and the tradition of deaconesses being clergy continues in the East. You're right to defend that there are no reasons for deaconesses to be "ordained" in Canada today other than satanic feminism, and even to defend that deaconesses would not be clergy in Western Catholic tradition, but to say that "deaconesses are clergy" is the same as "women can be priests" is a stumbling block, especially if you're going to use the "in persona Christi" argument when deacons do not even consecrate the Eucharist.


bb451d  No.780488

>>780485

Yeah I had the thought that the Pope rejected some of the things of that council.

We in the west never considered deaconesses as part of the clergy because the 19th Canon of the council of Nicea says so:

>We refer to deaconesses who have been granted this status, for they do not receive any imposition of hands, so that they are in all respects to be numbered among the laity.

It's weird the Eastern churches don't comply with this.


3c9fd7  No.780490

>>780485

>You're right to defend that there are no reasons for deaconesses to be "ordained" in Canada today other than satanic feminism

Aren't you glad we have nothing to do with this quagmire? Feels good.

But as for Canada and "satanic feminism": this issue wouldn't exist at all if Rome simply beat them to the punch and maintained the ancient guideline in the first place. This way it would have always been under the umbrella of traditional teaching, and not an issue eventually abused by liberals. Suppressing it arbritrarily has only come back to haunt people again in the modern era with liberals trying to use anything they can to undermine the church and making the traditional church look like the "oppressive". When actual tradition was never "oppressive" at all. It only became that way when the RCC made it's innovations and shut the door.

The same could be said for rules on celibacy in the priesthood. It's a blessing if that is a man's vocation, but forcing it across the board has borne bad fruit. Should have just stayed like the Orthodox.

Here's another: Lack of enthusiasm for liturgy and scripture in the vernacular inadvertently opened up the RCC to be assailed by all of the post V2 innovation in the 20th century. It was like the floodgates opened, rather than a steady stream of solid, vernacular suggestions.

Same could be said for the trend in Catholic bible scholarship. Very little enthusiasm here as well, but the minute it was encouraged, it opened up the most pozzed form of bible scholarship that mostly borrowed from Mainline Protestant university teaching.

None of these "opened floodgates" have hit the Orthodox in the same way exactly. I hope Catholics get a handle on all of them in the same fashion (not trying to be too harsh here.. I really do mean this).


00eca3  No.780491

>>780479

Proof?


00eca3  No.780492

>>780488

Pope can't just say something like that and it be infallible unless it's a council or ex cathedra, which it was neither, but if you have proof otherwise let me know. If it was that simple then Pope Francis and everyone else could just say JPII infallibly defined it as Dogma, but he didn't.


1b8dd6  No.780527

>>780490

To be fair I don't think that the office of deaconness was suppressed in the Catholic Church arbitrarily. It was simply not useful anymore, and likewise the office was largely disbanded in the East by the 11th century, although not abolished as deaconesses still continued to be a thing here and there and the office was brought back to the limelight since a couple of centuries. But deaconesses not having a real clerical status in the West to begin with certainly didn't help with keeping the office relevant.

The problem is with liberals finding out that the office existed a long time ago and deciding to bring it back, re-interpretated as what they want it to be, ignoring that the office continues to exist in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches and doesn't mean what they think it means.

Also, likewise, the service of adelphopoiesis is brought up by liberals as proof of gay marriage in the ancient Church, not knowing that the office was still done in Eastern churches as late as the 20th century.


5a0bb6  No.780673

>>780491

>>780492

>Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.

>>780527

Yeah of course. They try to appeal to wtv they understand as tradition to make think the modern church is wrong because it used to be more liberal as they want to portray her.

>the service of adelphopoiesis is brought up by liberals as proof of gay marriage

How can anyone believe it?

Getting to be a bother of someone else is not the same as being a faggot.

Is friendship between two dudes gay now?

What's next? David and Jonathan were gay now?

I can't stand these people.




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