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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 2c4bca79b81a461⋯.jpg (362.65 KB, 1039x1300, 1039:1300, 15647755-jesus-christ-pant….jpg)

2890ef  No.773315

Your favorite icons.

ea3d8c  No.773338

File: 982db0cd47a0e5f⋯.jpg (36.55 KB, 960x540, 16:9, 671831186-orthodox-cross-p….jpg)

File: 63da0dab56bee8a⋯.jpg (433.89 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 780581-1920x1080-[DesktopN….jpg)

File: 7b6e42fa3edf8b8⋯.jpg (309.12 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, Benedict XVI encourages di….jpg)

File: 31c65987a3d06d7⋯.jpg (128.18 KB, 700x715, 140:143, 31c65987a3d06d7af559f17f6c….jpg)


0eb1e1  No.773355

File: 7be431621821505⋯.jpeg (10.19 KB, 180x279, 20:31, serveimage (3).jpeg)


0f8fd1  No.773361


e9cc51  No.773483

>idolatry the thread


b7a1e5  No.773484

>>773483

>I'm a crypto-muslim, the post


893a2e  No.773665

File: 0985dff7b49cf16⋯.jpg (242.41 KB, 1080x1309, 1080:1309, IMG_20180519_224411.jpg)

File: 6c601acc930cfac⋯.jpg (2.54 MB, 1129x1600, 1129:1600, ca69dd24-7f1a-4d57-9a4a-4b….jpg)

File: 70acfcbfaabeaab⋯.jpg (308.3 KB, 1080x1503, 120:167, IMG_20180609_150807.jpg)


a23c61  No.773678

Exodus 20:4

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Deuteronomy 5:8

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Leviticus 26:1

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Someone please explain to me why icons are not idolatry. This is a serious request.


33b7d2  No.773688

>>773678

They're not graven images, for one. They are two-dimensional.

But even putting this aside (because statues are fine too), what is the reason for God forbidding that graven images be made and worshipped? Because they are necessarily idolatrous. Either one portrays something God created and worships it, and is therefore idolatrous, or one tries to portray God, and necessarily falls into idolatry as well, for the simple fact that God cannot be imagined or portrayed, the divinity is beyond comprehension, and any attempt to portray it necessarily portrays something less than it.

Furthermore, the command is not simply that one cannot make images of created things, but that one cannot worship such things.

We do not portray the incomprehensible divinity, and we do not worship either the saints or the wood and paint on which their images are drawn. The arguments in response to this are usually the following:

- 1) The commandment is that we cannot make images of anything, full stop. Any statue or drawing is sinful.

- 2) We cannot portray God. Jesus is God, therefore we cannot portray Him.

- 3) Religious imagery in Christianity is a very late innovation and is therefore to be discarded.

- 4) Using icons to focus on worship of God or veneration of the saints is necessarily the same as doing those things to the icons themselves.

- 5) All matter is evil, matter cannot be used for worship and therefore anything sacramental/liturgical is idolatrous.

To which I respond:

- 1) God commanded both Moses and Solomon to make statues of cherubims, fruits, and so on.

- 2) This is a faulty and heretical understanding of the Incarnation, and claiming this makes you a non-Christian. Jesus is fully man and fully God, and while we cannot portray the divinity, God has revealed Himself as a man, Jesus. Jesus's human nature was true and full, not a mere mask or puppet for the divinity, therefore we can portray Jesus, Who is God, in the manner that He has revealed Himself to us. Portrayals of the Father are canonically forbidden (but have crept in in some traditions, under Western influence, sadly) and the Holy Spirit can only be portrayed in the form that He is portrayed in the scriptures as well (as light, as a dove, as tongues of fire, depending on the scene).

- 3) Even if we disregard the traditions that consider Luke to be the first iconographer, the Dura-Europos synagogue that was unearthed is literally covered in religious images. Religious images wouldn't have been a bizarre thing to the early Christians.

- 4) In the liturgy, the priest says "Look down from heaven, O Master, upon those who have bowed their heads before You; for they have not bowed before flesh and blood, but before You, the awesome God". While "talisman" thinking is certainly a risk that exists, the liturgy itself combats such a thing.

- 5) This is straight up Gnosticism. Matter is good, and God wants us to use matter to worship Him. Read the latter half of book of Exodus - matter is constantly used to establish connection with God, not because He is too far away from us and needs an intermediary to be reached, but because, as a race of priests, it is our mission to take God's creation and offer it back to Him.


b7a1e5  No.773721

File: a0c6fe473d7d074⋯.jpg (303.19 KB, 1221x1600, 1221:1600, Theotokos Odigetria.jpg)

>>773688

Checked this beautiful response


c03918  No.773724

>>773678

I wasn't aware we were still living under the Mosaic Law. I trust you've been a good Jew by also following the laws about putting homosexuals to death and not wearing mixed fabrics.


33b7d2  No.773728

>>773724

Don't be ridiculous. The Law has not been abrogated, but it was imperfect because no one can fulfill God's will perfectly. Christ is the author of the Law and gives us its spirit, rather than its letter, and He gives us His Spirit to be able to fulfill His will perfectly this time.

The Law remains holy and edifying, and this is why the Ten Commandments are used so much, even if their interpretation changes with Christ ("do not kill" becomes "do not even hate", "do not commit adultery" becomes "do not even look at someone with lust", "remember the Sabbath" becomes "remember the Lord's Day", etc). You can't accuse someone of being a Judaizer for bringing up one of the ten commandments.


47d1e2  No.773828

File: 86e3e602b0fe83b⋯.jpeg (640.02 KB, 1600x1182, 800:591, 00c5d06fe72232cd54439975f….jpeg)

File: bbacc80121a1790⋯.jpeg (75.64 KB, 450x579, 150:193, 8ff8f6f9ead3a377edd653517….jpeg)

File: e877c16bdb27ce2⋯.jpg (1022.36 KB, 1904x1356, 476:339, 5df9ff7f88e6d514f127121ee8….jpg)

File: 58604b47b643902⋯.jpg (560.51 KB, 600x425, 24:17, 58604b47b643902e4ca8e4a03a….jpg)

File: 743bb3597ff5f04⋯.jpg (461.05 KB, 1000x869, 1000:869, 1520304283.jpg)

Not all of these are icons, but still

>>773688

Anti-trads btfo! How will they ever recover?


47d1e2  No.773829

File: 3143d668070da9f⋯.jpg (48.13 KB, 512x371, 512:371, 617de6ec21e826daaef78b5a64….jpg)

File: a0d24be1376221f⋯.jpg (185.96 KB, 1011x674, 3:2, a0d24be1376221f4481a27ebf2….jpg)

File: c28ec15b60bc252⋯.jpg (59.57 KB, 474x355, 474:355, download (1).jpg)

File: 604f7f9ca56fc98⋯.jpg (1.54 MB, 1823x3250, 1823:3250, Saint Paul.jpg)

File: 8316a5875ba098d⋯.jpeg (138.13 KB, 480x640, 3:4, 8316a5875ba098d1634bcf10f….jpeg)




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