/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Prot here. A lot of this stuff just looks like witchcraft to me. Between the prayer beads and the spooky-wooky stuff, and all the sex abuse. It's downright ridiculous.

>>764678

>prayer beads

I can't blame you for being suspicious on the rest, but beads were just a memory/educational device. Just like Calendars/feast days/and art.

The Fatima vision said Russia would be converted. I've seen none of that fulfilled. I've seen Russia properly restore the right church though and resist Roman Catholics as much as they can.

>>764685

She said in the end it will be converted and her immaculate heart would triumph, that is not to say it will happen in your lifetime. The errors of Russia have spread to entire Western world in the century since her apparition. Also

>Calling the Queen of Heaven a liar

She didn't ask for EO.

>>764687

Those "errors" (if you mean communism) started with Marx.. and were headquartered in America and the UK originally. The West itself owns it. And many Jews as well were included in the Bolshevik circles (and killed the Russian Czar as well). I find it strange that the vision lays the blame on Russia itself, when it was the actual victim.. and infiltrated by the West and by Jews. It was already a Christian nation. Now it's trying to rebuild the Orthodox church again.

>>764687

>>Calling the Queen of Heaven a liar

I didn't call her a liar btw. I call you Catholics liars, who abuse her name and image.

>>764689

She states that the errors of Russia shall spread to the rest of the world, not that Russia was the progenitor of its errors. At that time the ideology that overtook Russia was still underground in the United States and the rest of the Western world. It would take half a century for them to reach their way into mainstream influence, thus the errors of Russia had spread.

>>764691

Talk about a cope, sorry the Blessed Virgin doesn't show herself to schismatics.

>>764689

Pretty much everything you wrote in this post was incorrect. Bolshevism originated amongst jews in eastern Europe, who had been there for centuries. They emigrated to America and brought their mind virus with them. in the 20th century.

>>764693

Those apparitions aren't even consistent. I was just reading a book about "Our Lady of Kibeho" (before finally getting fed up and throwing it out), and that version of her suddenly pushes Vatican II syncretism, where "everybody somehow knows God" including heathens.

Like I said, Catholics abuse her name.. to push whatever trend or ideology needs an extra "oomph" at the time.

>>764685

>but beads were just a memory/educational device.

If you cut out the vain repetitions and pray from the heart, in the way of faith as instructed, you won't need pagan prayer beads.

>>764697

I agree. We're only supposed to learn from formal prayers.. much like (properly raised) kids learn how to address adults, for example.. or in the old days when we addressed kings. But the formal becomes habitual and the prayer of the heart is eventually informed by it. Every prayer should at least have spirit of the Lord's Prayer in it.. but Jesus did teach us that in a formal way first, for a very good reason.

>>764678

They think that they're demons posing as Mary.

>>764685

Fatima literally predicted WWII.

>>764704

How was it twisted as pro-vatican propaganda? You realize many Catholics consider the state of the Vatican to be in part consequence of not following the Blessed Mother's commands.

As an aside: A more important history of Medjugorje and Croation Catholics:

"In World War II, Pius XII, in his paranoid fear of Communism, did nothing to stop the massacre of 750,000 Orthodox Serbs by the fascist Croat Ustashi of the puppet "Independent State of Croatia" set up by the Nazis. Cardinal Stepinac of Zagreb [people here seem to love him] saw the Orthodox Church as an evil "almost greater than Protestantism," and Franciscan friars ran the most notorious of the concentration camps. In the Medjugorje vicinity, fifty men, women and children were thrown from a cliff-top, and all the monks at a nearby Orthodox Monastery were buried alive."

orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx

I felt like just taking quote alone (the rest of the article is actually a sober examination of the apparitions). I just found it funny that scoffing at Orthodox by calling them "schismatic" is the least you could do to them. It's almost nice actually.

>>764678

>whose every word has come true

Lol good one 😂👌🏻

>>764719

>There has been much analysis of the event from critical sociological and scientific perspectives. According to critics, the eyewitness testimony was actually a collection of inconsistent and contradictory accounts. Proposed alternative explanations include witnesses being deceived by their senses due to prolonged staring at the Sun and then seeing something unusual as expected.[6][7][8][9][10][11][12]

5 sources stating that the whole thing was probably faked. But I've never actually read the prophecies. I will read it now and come back to you to confirm the things you've said.

>>764696

My friend what you say its retarded.

There are lots of fake apparitions. The only apparitions certified by the Vatican are in Lourdes, Fátima and Akita, and yes many miracles happened at that place.

>>764739

What didn't happen?

>>764748

Well how?

Here's how it began.

Our Lady at the end of 1917 said if mankind didn't straight itself the Father would send a new war. Mankind of course became even more degenerate.

One or two years later (Lucia wrote the secrets and they were time stamped) Mary told her a great sign in the skies would indicate that a new war even worse than the first would happen during the reign of Pius XI (note that Pius XI wasn't pope yet, thus he had still not still not picked up the name Pius), and the second World wayr did start in 1938 (it began in Asia when Japan went nuts with China, 1939 was when the war started on Europe, note that if it was a fake the prophecy would change to match the standard date we hold, when Hitler invaded Poland, but the war was already going in Asia).

And then in 1938 a huge as winnie the pooh solar storm hits the earth and an aurora borealis appears in the Portuguese skies (this stuff only happens in the poles) and Lucia took it as a sign.

And Pius XI was really the pope back then, and that war was even worse than the WW1.

So whether we believe or not it was a winnie the pooh coincidence.

>>764796

>butthurt because the apparitions prove cathodox doctrine just like History

>>764800

>They're literally never correct in anything they say, very odd…

Such as…

>>764796

>angry because no approval of the Woman in the desert

at least you guys get toast

>>764800

fatima literally predicted the rise of communism and ww2

Why do prots hate Mary and everything related to her?

>>764806

Why indeed.

>>764797

to be fair, St. Mary never really shows up for Orthodox either. Orthodox got really angry at the idea they needed to be consecrated too.

What's funny is that even the Reformers liked Mary and believed for example in the Immaculate Conception.

>>764806

spirit of Satan

>>764808

Most orthodoxs believe in Fátima though, and the lady showed up on top of a coptic church so they say.

>>764810

>The mother of Jesus is satan now according to prots

What denomination are you from and how can I avoid you people.

>>764811

showed up without saying a word, which is really unusual for any marian apparition. also not approved by vatican, although they're just being really nice about it.

>>764812

you misunderstood, I'm saying the spirit of Satan is among some Protestant sects, and the biggest indicator is Marian hatred. Satan absolutely hates Mary.

>>764813

<I'm saying the spirit of Satan is among some Protestant sects

Oh, that explains more, sorry for sperging

>>764813

Yes its weird indeed, but at least lots of Muslims converted even if it was to the Eastern flavor of Christianity.

>Satan absolutely hates Mary

Genesis 3:15

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

>>764815

I'd argue that even resulting conversions aren't a worthy indicator of legit apparitions, Medjugore led to a lot of conversions, but the Vatican refuses to approve of it, and anyone involved with it says it's most likely demonic anyway.

Never forget, God takes good out of evil, which makes good work not a particularly worthy indicator of belief without Church approval.

>>764817

But of course. I don't really believe it, but i admit there's a probability though. Better orthodox than Muslim.

But as you said:

>Never forget, God takes good out of evil, which makes good work not a particularly worthy indicator of belief without Church approval

>>764806

We don’t.

>>764823

Then why do you get anal when people make art of her?

>>764826

That's not what I was referring to but okay.

>>764826

>Reread and read it again. If you cant find inconsistencies with what is claimed to have been said and when theres nothing to discuss with you.

I've read the whole memories of sister Lucia. There's no contradiction. Tell what are they then.

><Consequently: can you provide why Santa Muerte isnt a valid Marian Apparition?

I'm not an expert of Mexican memes, but the Vatican itself said that such practice was idolatrous and blasphemous. Here's your answer.

Only when the Vatican gives permission a Catholic can believe in the apparition even then one is not forced to believe.

>>764678

>Saints appearing to people means we can pray to them

Can someone please explain why "venerate" is specifically used to describe "honouring" the saints instead of "honour", because venerate can very easily also mean worship

>>764830

Because Venerate is a better word instead of honor.

>>764830

Find me a better translation for the word Dulia/Hyperdulia.

We consider veneration in the sense of homage more a less.

Adoration/worship is the kind of thing we have for God (latria as opposed to idolatria)

>>764825

Huh???

I’m not the other people in this thread.

>>764838

Sorry.

>>764678

>2 Corinthians 11:14

<And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

>>764833

>Find me a better translation for the word Dulia/Hyperdulia.

Worship

>Adoration/worship is the kind of thing we have for God

And this would be why. By your admission, the only legitimate difference is that God is the object.

>>764748

>Trusting Wikipedia

You can't expect me to take you seriously

>>764854

>Worship

But Dulia isn't Worship.

>>764678

This was probably the wrong way to start a thread if you wanted a useful discussion. Let's put it this way; I'm not sure about your Marian apparitions, but it would be nice if they were real. However, I have no doubt also that a good uninspired prognostication can feasibly ape inspired prophecy.

>>764863

>grug no call dulia worship, so dulia no worship

>>764881

It's not though, there's a difference.

>>764881

So is respecting the national flag or commemorating soldiers who dies in a war also idolatry?

>>764847

Except the apparitions reveal nothing knew and are 100% in agreement with the Catholic doctrine.

Shitty try devil you have made lots of people to convert/getting stronger in their faith and asking the virgin Mary to protect them from the devil even more.

Maybe he is masochist or something.

>>764854

>Everything is worship.

<St. Something pray for me to God

>you are worshipping that Saint as a God

facepalm.jpg

>>764678

We don't hate Mary; we simply recognize that you've inserted her into a slot that pagans have worshiped far before Christ was born.

http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/pagan_origin_mary_worship.htm

>pagans worship female deity for some reason completely alien to Christianity

Vs

>Catholics who venerate, not worship, a human virgin lady who happens to be the Mother of God Incarnate and ask Her to pray for us to her Divine Son, that the Scripture Itself say that the said lady will smash Satan's head, the source of all pagan deities

These two are the same guyz

I mean take the full redpill and say Christianity is based of pagan myths.

tips

Ps: therefore true Christianity began, not even at the protestant reformation, since the Reformers loved the Mother of God, but only when protestants got to America.

>>764905

>We don't hate Mary

>But we call her a pagan moon goddess who thinks Molech is kosher

Come on.

>>764913

We don't call her pagan moon goddess; you do. If anybody is disrespecting Mary, its the people who swap her real identity with one from ancient Egypt.

>>764911

Do you believe that Christ was born on December 25, too? Why do you think you historically celebrate it on that day?

>>764917

>We don't call her pagan moon goddess; you do.

Here you go again, making up lies. Mary is the Mother of God.

>>764919

So we should stop believing in Christmas?

Are you a Jehovah witness too?

>>764921

Answer the question, coward.

>>764922

I'm not the person you're responding to, non-trinitarian anti-Christ.

>>764923

>refuses to seek the truth

>resorts to name calling

Absolutely filtered, my slanderous dude.

>764924

>calls someone a coward

>responds in kind

>I-I'm going to filter you because you called a bad name

And yes Jesus's birthday is on the 25th of December, metaphysical wise.

>>764883

Showing respect for dead warriors and calling forth someone's soul to entrust one's soul and wellbeing to them are exactly the same things

>>764678

Why do catholics turn Mary, a primus inter pares, but still infinitely damned if it werent for Christ (like the rest of humanity), into a goddess figure straight out of roman paganism?

>>764917

>real identity with one from ancient Egypt

Lol. If you accept this atheist stance on Christianity why don't you accept as well the claim that Christianity is based on paganism?

Also I would like you to explain why early Christians venerated Mary.

I guess everyone was an heretic until pastor Anderson showed up.

>>764932

I don't really know. But that's what I've been told since the first century.

I don't really like those novelties from the 16th onwards.

Call me a conservative I guess.

>>764959

No one hates it

>>764925

Stop practicing Saturnalia

>>764966

The whinne the pooh is that?

>>764971

"Christmas". Just watch this video and compare it to Christmas

>>764974

Oh wow, I don't care about what paganoids did, Christmas is on 25 of December, don't get upset over that one.

>>764977

That wasn't strawman though and I was asking a serious question on the basis that most protestants don't like Mary and hate having her brought up.

>>764899

>Except the apparitions reveal nothing knew and are 100% in agreement with the Catholic doctrine.

>How do Prots reconcile Marian Apparitions?

>>764975

Christmas is just the name the pope gave to Saturnalia

The Roman Catholic Church is a continuation of Roman paganism

>>764985

>YOU KNOW WHO ELSE SLEPT IN BEDS????

>DA POGANS

>>764987

>pagan worship festivals are ok when we do it!

>>764989

>worshiping God on a certain day makes you a pagan

>>764985

Literally made up. Dec 25 was sacred to Christians before any fagans arbitrarily moved the winter solstice to that date.

>>764791

>My friend what you say its retarded.

>

>There are lots of fake apparitions. The only apparitions certified by the Vatican are in Lourdes, Fátima and Akita, and yes many miracles happened at that place.

Even Lourdes is a joke and was propaganda for the recently dogmatized Immaculate Conception 4 years prior. Every one of these is a campaign. And I'm not retarded for not understanding your religion or what's "officially" approved or not. Just about all of it is fake, except what you shared with the ancient church and what we beckon you to come back to.

>>764993

Protestants are not the true Church.

>>764995

I'm not a Protestant. What does that have to do with anything? Protestants don't believe in the ecumenical councils. They're just as Catholics are, and set themselves up as little "popes" in their own rights. Instead of councils, they all have the delusion of by fiat proclamation. They learned from the worst.

>>764999

Well you aren't a baptist then if you aren't a protestant.

>>764959

But we believe in that.

How is that against the doctrine that saints can pray for us?

Is this bait?

>>764982

Exactly another proof in an ocean of them.

But I don't blame you. When you guys mental gymnastics over the bible and ignore the church history because it's against your doctrine I believe in everything.

>>764985

t. Jehovah Witness

>>764993

Its fake because I say its fake.

OK kid.

>the recently dogmatized Immaculate Conception

The founders of your cults also believed in that. Unless you thing the Reformers were heretics too (with that I agree)

>>764999

Orthodox I suppose? It's funny because there's an orthodox Chapel in Fátima to honor the Lady of Fátima.

>>764932

>People who are full of grace go to hell

100% heretical

>>764985

Lmfao so, what? 500 years ago you finally created the true Christianity? Gtfo of here retard.

>>765014

Are you retarded, too? Mary was full of grace, to consider her a first among equals is blasphemous.

>>765021

Impeccable theology I guess I'm leaving the one true Church now.

>>765005

>Orthodox I suppose? It's funny because there's an orthodox Chapel in Fátima to honor the Lady of Fátima.

Because we don't have popes or centralize.. and there's a lot of wrongheaded thinking there too. I already pointed out an article that said as much. Here it is again: http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx"

>>765005

>The founders of your cults also believed in that. Unless you thing the Reformers were heretics too (with that I agree)

What "cults"? The Immaculate Conception is only a Catholic thing. And it comes from your equally stupid idea of Original Sin.. because you hang on every word of Blessed Augustine. He may be blessed, but it's not the teaching of councils. Orthodox barely listen to him.. Different idea of sin, therefore no need for IC.

>>765024

>Because we don't have popes or centralize

So some kind of apostolic protestantism?

>because you hang on every word of Blessed Augustine.

SAINT Augustine. I really don't know why you guys hate him damn it. And yes he is a Saint in your denomination as well.

Saint Augustine bad, but Palamas and the following turning orthodox mysticism into some kind of Christian nirvana is ok.

>What "cults"?

I didn't know you were the same anon. I assumed you were protestant

>So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her to give life. She bore as a strong man, with will. . . . [Implied as pain during childbirth is the consequence of sin Gen. 3:16] (Odes of Solomon 19 [A.D. 80]).

> St. Irenaeus

>Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, "Behold, 0 Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word." Eve . . . who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband — for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children . . . having become disobedient [sin], was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient [no sin], was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).

>St. Hippolytus

>He [Jesus] was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle [Mary] was exempt from defilement and corruption (Orat. In Illud, Dominus pascit me, in Gallandi, Bibl. Patrum, II, 496 ante [A.D. 235]).

>Ephrahim the Syrian

>You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is neither blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these? (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A. D. 361]).

>Proclus of Constantinopole

>As He formed her without any stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain (Homily 1[ante A.D. 446]).

And you don't want me to quote Augustine and the rest of the gang.

Btw those fathers above were Eastern, I didn't even quote the western ones so I could prove my point.

I guess that in some cases St. Augustine went back in time and taught this guys differently.

>inb4 St. Chrysostom, St. Basil and another one whose name I don't remember didn't believe in that.

Like you said the words of the Fathers aren't infallible like the ecumenical councils.

This is to show that we didn't pull this one out of our ass. In fact the prophecy of Genesis, the proto evangelium, only makes sense if a new Eve makes the right choice and sticks with God, crushing the devil's head. Just as Eve was with no sin, Mary had to be in the same circunstances.

God preserved her from sin at the very moment of her conception.

>>764806

We don't. We just don't get why Catholics worship her.

Turboprot here.

I ask that Mary and several saints pray for me daily. I just don't usually pay attention when someone in trashcanistan allegedly has a vision that is intended for their benefit/salvation and not mine.

I must also admit that I am skeptical of how commercialized the church has made such visions: but that is the fault of the Church and not of the god-bearer.

>>764795

>God sent WWII

And this is a large reason why I stay far away from Rome.

>>765131

>1500 years of tradition™ destroyed just by reading the bible

Really makes you think.

As a Lutheran, I understand Mary to be the Theotokos. Now, as to why she in particular would appear to anybody is beyond me. Why not Moses and Elijah? Jews leave a seat open for Elijah during Passover in case he shows up. Why not Gabriel? Why not Jesus Christ Himself?

>>765165

>Arius

>Nestorius

>Theodotus

>Apollinaris

>>764678

High Church Anglicans and Lutherans have Marian devotions and often veneration of the Saints.

>>764704

>She said this in the apparition of the 25th of March. That's the feast of the Annunciation in the Orthodox Church. She was referring to the conception of Jesus, not to her own conception.

Immaculate Conception was dogmatically proclaimed in 1854. Lourdes happened in 1858 and she used the exact term in French local dialect. Why didn't she say "I am the mother of the Immaculate Conception"?

Your explanation is doubtful.

Funnily, Catherine of Siena said the Virgin Mary said there was no Immaculate Conception. Fast forward to when official proclamations are made on it, and suddenly Virgin Mary said there was.

But the best part is the typical weaseling Catholic leaders do if confronted with things like this: "Even saintly people can misinterpret their revelations, and Catherine was so influenced by her Dominican teachers, who opposed the teaching, that 'even in her mystical rapture this holy woman could not sufficiently immerse herself in God to overcome the suggestion' (Archbishop of Split)

Not to say I approve of Catherine of Siena either. She's another troubling person. This is the same woman who said she was married to Jesus and he gave her his foreskin as a wedding ring.

>>765188

Aren't you that "Orthodox" guy who kept giving Catherine a bunch of trouble for being a woman in that other thread?

>This is the same woman who said she was married to Jesus

Scripture itself describes the union between God and the human soul in marital terms, do your research. Song of Solomon is almost entirely a metaphor of the arrival of Christ.

>Funnily, Catherine of Siena said the Virgin Mary said there was no Immaculate Conception. Fast forward to when official proclamations are made on it, and suddenly Virgin Mary said there was.

"There is also a revelation attributed to S. Catherine of Sienna, that the Blessed Virgin was conceived in original sin, and which is mentioned by S. Antoninus. | But as there is no trace of that revelation among the visions and revelations of S. Catherine, collected by the Blessed Raymund of Capua, there arises no slight suspicion, that this has been added to them, and is therefore to be accounted apocryphal, as is shown at length by Cardinal Gotti,|| and Martin del Rio" - Pope Benedict XIV

https://archive.org/stream/heroicvirtue03beneuoft/heroicvirtue03beneuoft_djvu.txt

>But the best part is the typical weaseling Catholic leaders do if confronted with things like this

Weaseling is to make grand claims you cannot back up.

>Not to say I approve of Catherine of Siena either.

Who cares who YOU approve of? You're obviously not a great source.

>>765087

20 And David returned to bless his own house: and Michol the daughter of Saul coming out to meet David, said: How glorious was the king of Israel to day, uncovering himself before the handmaids of his servants, and was naked, as if one of the buffoons should be naked.

21 And David said to Michol: Before the Lord, who chose me rather than thy father, and than all his house, and commanded me to be ruler over the people of the Lord in Israel,

22 I will both play and make myself meaner than I have done: and I will be little in my own eyes: and with the handmaid of whom thou speakest, I shall appear more glorious.

23 Therefore Michol the daughter of Saul had no child to the day of her death.

In the NT:

And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

My protestant friend, it is simple. We acknowledge that Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant in the fullest sense of the term, and we love her, and will not be ashamed, just as David was not ashamed for dancing before the Ark.

>>765191

>Aren't you that "Orthodox" guy who kept giving Catherine a bunch of trouble for being a woman in that other thread?

I said she was a silly woman. Just like a man can be a silly man. You want me to point out the flaws of your Padre Pio too.. for the sake of "gender equality"? It won't be difficult. Your saints didn't heed the earliest wisdom of our shared saints or desert fathers and chased after visions… the biggest no, no to the earliest church. And just about every Orthodox (at least ones who appreciate history) points this out. Catherine is a good example of how strange the West went after the schism.

>>765191

>Who cares who YOU approve of? You're obviously not a great source.

Simply quoting the sources is not a "great source"? OK then. Enjoy your clown masses or something.

I'm here just to give Protestants more information than they have already. They'll appreciate it. They tend to avoid this stuff and just do the sola scriptura thing. I'll hold out hope for the occassional tradcat who realizes how inconsistent and/or what a joke things have become, but I won't count on it.

>>765168

No you are talking about heretics. And the only good thing they made was making the ground for freedom of thought and modernism.

While it was the Catholic Church that handled all the difficult matters like the Trinity ans Christology.

Besides don't try to compare the Church Fathers and medieval theologians with meme protestant ones.

Btw CS Lewis wasnt a theologian, and only became a Christian thanks to his Catholic friend JRR Tolkien.

But the same can be said of Luther, Calvin and os many others.

If they actually had theological formation they wouldn't be protestants in the first place.

Specially Luther who's thesis just show how he didn't understand shit about theology, no wonder he lost ever debate with Catholic apologists, and in one of them he was forced to admit that ecumenical councils weren't inspired by the Holy ghost and was forced to deny the papacy.

If you actually read the history of protestantism it wasn't even Luther objective to make a new church, rather he was forced to it so that wouldn't contradict himself.

>>765187

Immaculate conception is a term created since the middle ages and widely popularised between catholics. It was taught in every catechism even before the dogmatical definition.

Also hundreds of scientifically unexplainable miracles happened there either way.

>>765200

>And just about every Orthodox…

…has a complete bias when they pitch in about Catholic Saints, since it would be self-refuting to accept that they are in fact, Saints. It'd be too much of a good thing for you to realize this, so you'd rather act uncharitable. I cannot blame you, it seems encouraged in the wider orthoprot internet community.

>Simply quoting the sources is not a "great source"? OK then. Enjoy your clown masses or something.

You don't even bother addressing my source (from a Pope!) that outright contradicts yours? It's plain that whomever your quoting didn't do the research and is just responding to the unfounded accusation against St. Catherine.

>I'll hold out hope for the occassional tradcat who realizes how inconsistent and/or what a joke things have become, but I won't count on it.

"Tradcat", internet orthodox, and the Sedes all seem to share the same spirit of intellectual dis-ingenuousness and schism.

>>765337

Don't bother lad. Ortholarpers and protestants are the same.

They quote something spurious or a stupid conspiracy theory, you some them they're wrong and they need insisting in what they said despite being proven wrong.

If it was the opposite they would mental gymnastics around it or like in the bible claim that some books who prove certain Catholic doctrines aren't Canon just because.

>>764685

Explain why Putin has inquired heavily into Fatima from fr Gruber and why he asked Pope Francis to consecrate Russia. Explain why the muscow patriarchate has excommunicated Constantinople and suggested that they prefer to be subject to the Pope than to the patriarch of Constantinople. Explain why Moscow lifted the excommunications with Rome in the 60s and profess to be in communion.

Russia is coming home.

>>769008

>and suggested that they prefer to be subject to the Pope than to the patriarch of Constantinople

>Moscow lifted the excommunications with Rome in the 60s and profess to be in communion.

Source?