/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

It was Christ. That event is called a "theophany".

Angels aren't God, and the person of the trinity who is a man is Jesus.

>>763072

Yeah, I thought that, but while searching in the Internet, it was primarily about being a angel, so I got confused.

The Wikipedia page title talks about being a angel, along with various depictions of a angel with Jacob, and none of Jesus Christ.

>>763080

It is part of the Torah, so any articles written by Jews will deny that it was Jesus. We know that this angel was a person of the Trinity, for He states it in the passage: "You have struggle with God". As for why He is depicted in artwork of this scene as an angel, it is because prior to the incarnation, Jesus appeared as the "Angel of the LORD".

>>763080

wikipedia is commie

>>763090

hence the reason it is free

>>763098

They actually get their funding from voluntary donation, not state confiscation

>>763067

>It seems that the man's identity is debatable, from being a Angel to Jesus Christ. How should I interpret this passage ?

If you were actually part of the Church, it's not doubtable at all. It's called an Old Testament Theophany of Christ.. and has been since the beginning. Only faggots who reinvent the wheel (Catholics and Protestants) don't teach it.

>>763125

The very premise of the Reformation is a reform back to NT practice in retaliation to rcc extrabiblical additions

We teach it was a christophany

>>763130

I commend that (and pardon my French above.. but it honestly aggravates me), but many Reformers didn't exactly go back to early practice. They went to Augustine and equated that with "early" (chiefly Luther and Calvin), and followed his error here.

>>763088

>It is part of the Torah, so any articles written by Jews will deny that it was Jesus

That's true. Just look at the Wikipedia article on the word "almah". They'll do anything to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, no matter how small the detail.

>>763133

Is that true? Luther and Calvin didn't teach that it was Christ?

The Jewish Targums call the appearances of the Angel of the Lord… wait for it…

Memra.

The Word.

They knew what was up. Whatever you hear from Jews now are post-Christian synagogue posers. They're miserable people with zero resemblance to the old religion (because they have no temple).

>>763141

>Is that true? Luther and Calvin didn't teach that it was Christ?

Actually, I can't be sure of that now. I've heard this from Protestants elsewhere, but not quite sure if them. I do know they were real sticklers for Augustine, but one could say his teachings had more impact on Catholicism.

>>763145

Well you're right as a general principle that calvinism is the natural evolution of augustinian neoplatonism, I wouldn't say the same about Lutheranism

>>763149

>Well you're right as a general principle that calvinism is the natural evolution of augustinian neoplatonism, I wouldn't say the same about Lutheranism

I mostly attributed it Protestants because of Augustine.. but also just how they view "salvific" history. As if that was the only purpose of the Logos' existence. Not all Protestants may think that, but it's usually the standard meme they live by. There are some truly crass views in the Calvinist world (I mentioned this in another thread recently, but I remember listening to a sermon where RC Sproul literally said that Jesus could have incarnated as a grown man and just died on the cross immediately. As if anything else he said or did didn't matter). It's this view that Jesus' only real title is Lamb of God, and he had no real purpose to be around outside his material Incarnation. It's a poor understanding of who the Son of God is… or I should say, God the Son. He is means by which God created the world and interacts with us. Even in OT times.

It's incredibly heartbreaking and I feel like calling people faggots again.. but I'll try to stop ;)

>>763123

Sure, but they very clearly have an agenda that is in line with leftists.

According to the consensus of the Church Fathers, this is a metaphor for a Super Smash Brothers Melee match that Jacob had with an angel. The opinions are divided, but the majority opinion is that Jacob either played as Jigglypuff or Kirby.

>>763072

God wasn't man before the Incarnation.

But it could be very well be the 2nd person of the Trinity.

>>763067

OP he fought with God in his dreams.

God is One so there's no need to make distinctions.

>>763501

No, he literally wrestled with the Angel of the LORD, who was the pr-incarnate Christ.

>>763501

he had a limp aftwerwards. Did he dream that too?

>>763602

>To be serious, only the Orthodox teach what the Church fathers taught.

Which is already a ridiculous claim, because the Church Fathers contradict each other on many finer points of theology. The entire point of having an authentic Church vested with the authentic Holy Spirit is to make declarations on what is orthodox and what is heresy/heterodox.

>Catholics just teach what ONE taught…

Patently false, have some shame. You're not doing any Orthodox any favors with lies.

>>763072

Nah, no theophany. It's just Christ.

>>765441

I hope you just don't know what a theophany is and you're not implying Christ is not God.