/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>761757

Do you have an answer or not?

>>761757

Simply epic

>>761751

Look at the example of:

eating - obesity

alchohol - drunkenness

smoking - cancer

sex - disease

arguing/ hatred - violence

cheesy examples. but you get the point

>>761751

>Is smoking sinful?

*is it a virtue?*

get dabbed on by Fr Paisios

>>761751

its more of a practical sin imo,

smoking = less time to grow in grace/repent, same with being unhealthy in general

Self-harm is irrelevant as to whether something is sinful or not. To sin is to separate oneself from God. If you were to trade your faith for a pack of cigarettes, you'd be in sin, but I think that's hardly the case here. More importantly, you should not be shooting so low as just abstaining from sin, but should instead be aiming at making yourself perfect, so that in being irreprehensible in your conduct you might become a light to the world. This includes forsaking doing certain things that, though neither pure or impure, might cause your weaker brothers to stumble through their example.

I assume you mean smoking cigarettes.

My priest told me it is a sin, because it is harmful to the body, gives a high, and can cause addiction.

>>761788

Your priest is a moron.

>>761788

Get another priest if he doesnt even know what a sin is or isnt

Smoking is an unhealthy stupid behaviour (which I admit, I do occasionally) but it doesnt damage your relationship to God and is technically not a sin. It could theoretically get to the point where it does (your worship of God is cut short by smoke breaks eg during mass) but thats a sin of addiction, the same way addiction of alcohol is sin but not alcohol itself

>>761788

popebenedictlightsup.jpg

>>761790

he's misinformed, be more charitable

>>761794

>>761798

>>761790

… Why the vitriol? Is there some official teaching that "smoking is not a sin" that I missed?

>moking is an unhealthy stupid behaviour (which I admit, I do occasionally) but it doesnt damage your relationship to God

That's an oxymoron.

>>761804

>that's an oxymoron

not really, for most of human history people didn't know it killed you. if you understood how mortal sin works, this automatically makes it a non-sin for a huge swathe of catholics in history.

even now, it's arguable that "moderate" smoking is a non-sin. it takes so long and there's a thousand different ways to go.

>>761804

>Is there some official teaching that "smoking is not a sin" that I missed?

No but there's plenty of church teaching that condemns gnostic anti-materialism as heresy.

God created everything, and it was good. We humans are the ones that abuse it.

>doing stupid stuff damages your relationship to God

Uh no it doesnt.

>>761812

>Uh no it doesnt.

being intoxicated or doing drugs is considered sinful; even mortally sinful depending on the severity

>>761810

>if you understood how mortal sin works, this automatically makes it a non-sin for a huge swathe of catholics in history.

I don't really care about Catholics. I'm not a Catholic.

>for most of human history people didn't know it killed you

… And now we do. What is your point?

St. Barsanuphius of Optina, St. Paisios of Mount Athos, and other saints taught against smoking. And you did not address what I said - that it is harmful to the body, that it takes away from sobriety, that it has a high risk of addiction.

>>761812

>No but there's plenty of church teaching that condemns gnostic anti-materialism as heresy.

>God created everything, and it was good. We humans are the ones that abuse it.

If something hurts us, then we are not making natural use of it, and we are sinning.

Do cigarettes give you a quick and short high? Then they take away from sobriety, and therefore it is a sin to smoke.

Unless you mean that it is only by smoking too much that we abuse what God has created. Time to start eating fly amanitas then, just don't eat too many.

>>761819

>And now we do. What is your point?

I don't know and don't really care what the Orthodox teach, but by most standards smoking wouldn't necessarily be considered sinful because the knowledge of its harm was not known for centuries.

>St. Barsanuphius of Optina, St. Paisios of Mount Athos, and other saints taught against smoking.

cool story orthobro

>And you did not address what I said - that it is harmful to the body, that it takes away from sobriety, that it has a high risk of addiction.

nobody really knew this for centuries, but you can lay the claim of sin at their feet if you wish.

>>761822

>but by most standards smoking wouldn't necessarily be considered sinful because the knowledge of its harm was not known for centuries.

>nobody really knew this for centuries, but you can lay the claim of sin at their feet if you wish.

I assumed the OP meant "is it a sin if I smoke a cigarette in a first world country in the 21st century". My apologies if that's not what the thread was about, I'll step out if that is the case.

>TFW will never have a good cigar with G. K. Chesterton

>Unless I make it to Heaven and smoking is permitted on the New Earth

>>761804

Ehhh…. I'd liken it to self harm in my opinion. I mean, God blessed us with self-healing bodies that heal in due time. And there is proof beyond, thru and thru. But, we need to let things heal in due time and in due process… and stop winnie the pooh about with the process. You abuse it past the threshold of healing? Then uh oh, to the doctor's office with you.

>>761838

>and stop winnie the pooh about with the process

WtF??! I did not type that. Freakin satan. Things heal in due process. Stop abusing the process when your body is trying to heal itself…. winnie the pooh…. LOL. I have no idea where that came from.

>>761751

>is smoking a sin?

I usually ask my self that question as well, since I do struggle with it. Had been a smoker since I was a teenager, and probably did it for more than 12 years, at some point started hand rolling my own tobacco.

I never really wanted to stop, but I did so and turned to vaping because of how bad it affected my performance in gym, still I had some frequent relapses from time to time, until eventually got back to smoking full time.

So yeah, its not something good, forget about that developing cancer when you reach old age, it has some very present day to day effects, like smelling, real breathing issues, and something very underrated and common to all addictions, being unable to control yourself has a very real impact on your motivation for achieving goals in other areas of your life.

So in turn, smoking by itself may not be a sin in itself, but the habit of being a smoker spirals down into some other bad tendencies that aren't very christian.

Eg, currently vaping still, but ran out of nicotine, now I really want to rid myself of this. Its been two weeks since smoking, one week without nicotine.

>>761861

I agree and disagree with this. The real issue with smoking in my opinion is it addictive qualities, which make you subservient to it rather than to God. Just because something hurts you doesn't mean it's evil.

>>761963

You do realize that pipes and cigars are just as harmful and addictive as cigarettes, right?

>>761966

No, I don't realize that.

>>761861

Is eating junk food while having a sedentary lifestyle sin?

>>761967

Well, maybe you should. It's still tobacco, still contains nicotine and carcinogens. Addictive and destroys the lungs. Just because you find something aesthetically pleasing doesn't mean it isn't a sin. Remember: Lucifer was the most beautiful of angels.

>>761971

Nicotine is not inherently bad. It has some beneficial properties, like reducing risk of Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. You can get tobacco with few or no additives whereas most cigarettes are loaded with chemicals. Also, you can smoke pipes or cigars in moderation - like a couple times a week - whereas cigarette smokers almost inevitably smoke many cigarettes per day. Cigar and pipe smoke may elevate your risk of some diseases but not nearly at the same level cigarettes do. All sorts of things can increase health risks, diet, living in the city vs. the country, exercise, but no one harangues Christians for not jogging to reduce their cardiovascular risks. Only tobacco is worth complaining about, apparently.

>>761977

If you compare the amount of tobacco in a cigarette to the amount of tobacco people put in a pipe or roll into a cigar, it tends to even out. Depending, of course, on the size of the pipe bowl.

>>761965

Top kek, I actually own a pipe, but I hardly ever smoke, nevertheless it does harm your body and cigs are a definite no

>>761861

>>761867

I just can't fathom where do people like you crawl out of…

>>761969

Yes it is. Should be fairly obvious. It's a failure on your part to maintain the body God gave you.

>>761991

No u mr. Non-argument.

>>761757

Why do people like you respond so unchirst-like?

>>762021

at one time people may have. High-quality tobacco has a pleasant smell, the stench that we associate with it today is due entirely to cheap cigarettes. Moderate usage of addictive things, in a way that doesn't lead to dependence on them, isn't a bad thing.

>>761867

>Working out merely hurts your body, smoking destroys your lungs

I see, you're right, care should also be taken that no excessive damage is done.

For example, people drink and enjoy alcohol responsibly, the same can surely be done with tobacco.

>>761971

Cigars and pipes are smoked differently than cigarettes are, lessening the effects on the lungs. Now I would certainly object if someone I knew was smoking his pipe every day, multiple times per day, but once in a while is absolutely fine. No adverse affects; hell, my doctor doesn't even consider it 'tobacco use' when I mentioned I have a cigar once every few months or so.

>>761751

Its ok to do it if you aren't addicted IMO. Just enjoy a cigar once in a while and don't smoke a cig every day. Ask god to relieve you of the shit in your life, don't let drugs make your life shittier.

>>761751

>How bad/unhealthy does a habit have to be for it to be self-harm and therefore sinful?

The object is not sin the thing you do with it is potentially sin. You shouldn't-self harm, waste large amounts of your money, or create trouble for those around you (your exhaust fumes aren't humidifier mist.) Doing these things with reckless abandon is cruelty toward yourself and others.

>>761757

Heads: desperate for attention. Tails: wanted to delete a thread they don't like from the back of the catalog.

>>761774

>obesity

Is caused more by depressive inaction than eating. If you want to slay the obesity dragon then attack the despairing heart (metaphorically speaking.)

>drunkenness

Unless a person is so drunk that they're on the verge of losing consciousness, their behavior mostly amounts to lack of impulse control. People would control their impulses better - drunk or not - if society didn't spoil the guilty and transfer punishments to the innocent.

>cancer

You don't need a single cigarette to get cancer. Truth be told my own father smoked himself to death as an act of spite after waving the cancer card around like it was a credit card. The tobacco wasn't the problem; the mentality was. The same applies to a gun or a baseball bat or a boot or a jug of liquor.

>disease

Is not caused by sex per se; you can have sex fifty thousand times in your life and not catch herpes or HIV if you're having sex with the same person throughout and they're also only having sex with you. Likewise, the person who infects another through sex could also infect them through violence or drug use or even just being a lazy worker.

This isn't really a disagreement it's more "that's a bit too simplified there."

>>761790

>>761798

+1 each

>>761812

>God created everything, and it was good. We humans are the ones that abuse it.

Absolutely this. Inanimate objects aren't sins; choices souls make with their allegiance are (potentially) sins.

>>761854

You're not supposed to ask yourself.

>>761861

Modern cancer patients didn't get cancer from tobacco, they got cancer from the stuff used to help tobacco keep it's light (and customers.) Burn down the additive factories if you want to be the historical hero against cancer.

>>761863

Malicious destructive cruelty toward yourself is evil. Not all pain is cruelty but a slow torturing death is cruelty. If someone takes this route of smoking 1+ pack of mass market cigarettes a day despite knowing where these products lead, then they are self-hating and you're not supposed to hate.

>>761963

<why can't we go back to expensive handmade products instead of cheaper mass produced products

You can if you feel like; you can't decide for the rest of the world.

>>761966

They're not equal - mass market cigarettes have a vast many additives and some of which would be entirely useless to a smoking pipe. There's glue to hold the "strands" together, paper to bind it all together, sulfur to keep it lit, then each company's proprietary recipe of rat poisons to enforce customer loyalty. If you're smoking JUST tobacco then this isn't the polar opposite but it's far from the same.

>>761969

As with every *single* one of these "redpill me on X" questions, it's not so simple. Should you exercise? Yes, to the extent of your abilities. You can also use exercise as a tool of doing evil deeds just like a gun or a liquor jug.

>>761991

The land of insecurities and need to act better than everyone.

>>762073

All other imageboards are just /b/ with a theme.

>>762098

Brimstone keeps the fire lit.

>>762277

People who post these threads aren't asking for guidance they're just asking for a spectacle to eat popcorn in front of.