/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Even many heathens knew they had sin. The issue is what all constituted as such. And how to escape it. Some turned to philosophy or other gods or some other attempt to enlightenment. Did they have answers? Christ declared no, in word, purpose, and action. "No one comes to the Father but by me." You either believe him or you don't.

Other than this, I can't begin if you don't even understand sin.

Why did you make three threads?

>>751870

I didn't, not sure what the heck happened

>>751864

>Why do I need God?

He fulfills a deep-seated spiritual need in all humans, the same way your parents are supposed to fulfill a certain emotional need in you.

>Why is sin even a problem for anyone?

Man was created with a divine nature, and to go against it by sinning is to oneself harm. It's similar to how rebelling against your physical nature by eating unhealthy foods all the time will cause you harm as well.

>What's with all the liturgical church services and prayers if Jesus saves me from sin?

Jesus only saves you from sin if you ask Him to. The church services and prayers are simply a formalized procedure of asking for salvation.

>How can I carry on sinning if Baptism brings me the Holy Spirit?

You can do whatever you want within the laws of physics. God's not going to physically restrain you from making bad decisions just because you claim to follow Him.

>What's the point of it all anyway?

Eternal peace in the presence of our God in Heaven upon the termination of our physical lives.

>>751883

>Eternal peace in the presence of our God in Heaven upon the termination of our physical lives.

That's not the final point, we will have resurrection and live on the new earth

>>751885

Okay but the important part there is the whole eternal peace in the presence of our God thing.

>>751883

This was exactly what I feared I would get. Just specific answers to examples I gave instead of the actual narrative that everything fits inside of. You completely missed the point of my OP about tabula Rasa and fragmented knowledge.

Start to think that you people can't even piece it all together yourselves and just believe random things.

There is no such thing as a Tabula Rasa in the Christian worldview, for starters. And you have a different conotation of sin, to begin with.

For Orthodoxy, the more common analogy for sin is that sin is a kind of disease, like leprosy but for the Heart, and Theosis being the cure and "point" of both this life and the next.

>>751889

But there are already booklets on what you want, they are called "CATECHISM".

>>751907

Catechisms don't answer anything, I've looked into them.

>>751911

Not that anon but what is wrong with the catechism? They explicitly lay it out in a simple, easy to read format

>>751889

Christianity is the religion of following Christ according to the Bible, which is God's word. Here's the world metanarrative according to the Bible:

Man was created at the beginning of time by God. Adam and Eve sinned and were cast out of paradise, and sin entered the world. Sin is an act of disobeying God, and it's a problem because sin separates you from God and His created order for you. Ultimately, if your sin isn't reconciled, your life after the physical will be eternity in Hell.

The Old Testament is a collection of scriptures from before Christ. Most of it is historical prose, including prophecy (thus saith the Lord), and poetry (Psalms). In the stories of the Old Testament we see how God interacts with His chosen people, how they rebel against Him, and most importantly how He declared He will send a messiah who will save man from their sins.

The New Testament is the scriptures beginning with the gospels, or the "good news" about Jesus. Jesus is the messiah who fulfilled all the prophecies of the Old Testament. In order to save us each from our sin, He lived a perfect sinless life and gave Himself up for sacrifice on the cross. Three days later, He conquered death by rising from the tomb, taught for 40 more days, then ascended into heaven. He left the "great commission" as the primary objective of Christians.

We are living after the New Testament period. We are entrusted with God's word and our goal is to carry it out obediently. Liturgy just means the structure of our Church services, but you're thinking of sacraments regarding salvation. The idea of a sacrament is that you need to participate in a physical ceremony to receive the grace that God gives, and you're right to identify a tension with this and salvation from Jesus by belief. Instead, the Bible teaches that you believe and are saved, and the ceremonies and works you do are instructions for after your belief.

by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph. 2:8-9

Upon belief, you are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, you're "washed by the blood of the lamb" meaning you're seen as innocent of your sin guilt, and your name will be found in the Book of Life. Having the Holy Spirit doesn't preclude you from carrying on sinning because you still have free will. Having sinned is not cause to deny your salvation. The point of it all is to conquer death.

This is how you can be saved: >>751873

>>751891

This kind of question is exactly the point of a place like this

>>751912

A catechism is a source for seeing one institutions teachings on a series of topics, and it's helpful, but not the same as a "gospel tract" or "cliff's notes" of the Bible.

>>751864

Rich jews wrote the bible to enslave citizens under the written law. They did this by phrasing it so that it takes advantage of the human traits morality, superstition and faith. Why? Because instead of stopping criminal jews, the believers were busy studying their book of laws to reach such unreachable things as freedom, heaven, paradise etc. They also wrote the Koran btw.

>>751929

just read gospel nd you will know Jesus is the greatest man on earth then read the old testament an realise that his coming was predicted and taht he is God, then read apokalipse to know he will back

>>751929

if rich jews wrote law for this then well it didn't work XD

>>751932

It's certainly a well putted story, but why do you think there are so many unbeliever? Is it maybe that religions are filled to the brim with plot holes? My little statement on the other hand makes total sense and fits in timeline perfectly.

Also if your faith is strong enough you may dare to ask me what god really is and how you are committing atrocities beyond imagination against him.

>>751933

I'm sorry, who has overthrown the earth with lies and deception, and in what state is the faith of the cross currently?

>>751913

That was helpful but I'm still confused about some of the things you said. What was the point of the old testament period if God knew they would rebel and fail? What is Grace and why do Sacraments give them to me when I can just believe in Christ?

>>751937

These are good questions

>What was the point of the old testament period if God knew they would rebel and fail?

I take a position called open theism, where God didn't know because God is in time. Some say that God allowed all these negative events to happen so that He could tell the story.

>What is Grace and why do Sacraments give them to me when I can just believe in Christ?

"Grace" is getting something you don't deserve, like salvation. The Bible says "The wages of sin is death", meaning we deserve death because we sin, but God graciously forgives us.

Sacraments do not give you grace, you are only saved by placing belief in Christ.

>>751939

Why do Christians do things like pray, go to church, follow morals if all you need to do is believe in Christ? Why go to confession and stuff? Or does doing those things make you closer to God so he rewards you for your work?

>>751936

>It's certainly a well putted story, but why do you think there are so many unbeliever?

Christianity is 2000 years old and cult of YHWH far older, times change, people misinterpret old mythology or storys and think there are smart freethinkers

I dare to ask you.

>I'm sorry, who has overthrown the earth with lies and deception, and in what state is the faith of the cross currently?

ok i meant old testament because new is not about law but love, in fact old is about love to but its second bottom.

judaism was local religion the not converted anyone but the children, christianity is universal religion and ist old and corrupted now like Jesus says it will be

>>751942

Because they're instructions from God, in the Bible. You're not done once you're saved.

>Or does doing those things make you closer to God so he rewards you for your work?

Yes to both, but not in the "Joel Osteen" way

>>751944

So could you explain more about Sin. When we sin we separate from God which screws up his plan for our life and going to heaven, then we need to believe in Christ to bring us back to God out of sin? And priests forgive us? Also what about sinners before Jesus and sinners today who have never heard of Jesus?

>>751943

>is not about law but love

No it's about you trying to find excuses as to why you constantly break all those laws you suppose to follow. This is how they tricked you into a loop…all these laws are impossible for a human being to uphold, because we constantly lie, murder, steal etc. Yet the "believer" who can't comprehend this fiendish trick is endlessly gonna come up with justifications like…I only kill animals, I only stole taxes, I only lied about my age. See in this world are three kinds of people…criminal jews who lie and get away with it, honest people who use the truth to stop them, and a massive amount of "believers" who are trapped in the jewish scheme of blindly following communism, capitalism, religion, atheism and what have you not…thereby preventing the truth to reach the target.

Wanna know the big secret the Vatican is hiding from the world? The criminal jewish involvement in the creation of the Bible, the Koran, and the scriptures. And before you give me any shit about the jewish existence in that timeline…they stole that name too.

>I dare to ask you.

God, the creator, the entity who created all life…who created us really? Who sculpted the earth? Who's responsible for all the wonders around us? Who made all the species looking different? Who created a biosphere in which all life can live together in a balanced environment? Who gave us all our traits? What are all our morals based on? What did we turn into when we finally perish? What was always there for us? What always listened to whatever we say? What is the one thing that connects everything on this planet? IT'S NATURE ITSELF. That's our winnie the pooh god, a god who puts it's own life in the hands of it's creation. A god that strives when we worship it and care for it, and in return makes our own lives better. It's such a logical conclusion, GAIA, mother earth…why the f-u-c-k do you think the jews are so persistent in destroying the natural order?

And now think deeply about what you, I , we all did to the animal kingdom, to this planet, to nature itself, to our true god…sickening isn't it?

Now tell me how your religion explains the world better than mine?

>>751956

first step is understanding that story of Adam and Eve is admission of guilt, you must accept that you are not perfect and never be , but you can be alweys better than you are now.

you are right thet

>all these laws are impossible for a human being to uphold

thats why we need savior

>See in this world are three kinds of people…criminal jews who lie and get away with it, honest people who use the truth to stop them, and a massive amount of "believers" who are trapped in the jewish scheme of blindly following communism, capitalism, religion, atheism and what have you not…thereby preventing the truth to reach the target.

KEK

>Wanna know the big secret the Vatican is hiding from the world? The criminal jewish involvement in the creation of the Bible, the Koran, and the scriptures. And before you give me any shit about the jewish existence in that timeline…they stole that name too.

>i totally disagree and I believe that you can afford more

>Panteism

partly true but it's not all i believe there's a lot more

>And now think deeply about what you, I , we all did to the animal kingdom, to this planet, to nature itself, to our true god…sickening isn't it?

yep it is, and its nothing now for christians

>Now tell me how your religion explains the world better than mine?

I can't. God, through Christ, revealed himself to me and filled my life with meaning, although it was long ago nothing else in life equaled this experience

>>751956

also if you really want understand that read some church fathers or comentary to bible, the best will be to read interlinerane translation of bible, and other way is pray to God/univers/absolut what ever you think there is to show you the way

>>751964

So Jesus died for our sins, but why is it necessary for me to do anything at all now? Why do I even have to believe in God, Jesus or be a good person if Jesus has already done everything for my salvation?

>>751976

>>751980

>Adam and Eve

Another man made story, shrouded in unexplainable mysteries, taking place in the environment of our dreams and hopes. Billions of humans questioned it, believers spend endless times on defending it, and if it were written by the Brother's Grimm even a kid would see that it's just a tale to teach us simple morals.

>you can be always be better than you are now

Not if you're dead because you let yourself be tricked into ignoring evil directed at you.

>that's why we need savior

Another dream instead of creating one yourself. We were given the talents to create, the consciousness to judge, and the power to uphold the morals our common sense dictates us. Would you even be able to spot a savior if you see him? Hitler was the last Jesus walking on earth, Yasser Arafat tried to be a savior, John F. Kennedy saw the light and started to take down evil, shortly before he was slain by the deceiving jews who killed all the others.

>KEK

What's so funny about that? How is our twisted world, in which next to no human can make out any sense, a better explanation than the simple facts I stated? These three groups explain everything going on around us, yet you won't even try to look at it.

Just look at the atheists…the term was created to lump together all the people who didn't fall for the jewish lie of religion. Then that term was used to not only discredit them for being unbelievers, but to sick the believers against them to convert them (with violence). Now fast forward and look where the atheist ended up…hedonistic worshipers of capitalism (another jewish religion) and oh boy are those guys fanatics to the point of self destruction.

>Panteism

Another unnecessary term for something so logical. When we die, we become dirt (check out the FBI's death-house to see that process in all of it's glory), and dirt becomes part of life again. A never ending cycle of nature. How can a common sense truth like this be called a belief?

>i believe there's a lot more

Of course, butt loads full of criminal activities those beasts want to hide to escape judgement.

>No, that's called faith. Magnificent natural trait of human beings and one of the most powerful motivators we have. You just been tricked to direct it at a prison, you put yourself into. A jew made concept that makes you vulnerable, that prevents you from helping others in dire need of it and that gives the non believing jew the freedom commit atrocities. Believing in something that gives evil more power over you is evil in itself. See faith was given to you to use at your convenience to whatever deserves to get it. That also why a mother can put her faith momentarily into herself to lift a car under which her child is stuck. And if some average Joe like me can see something as logical as this, then a criminal jewish mastermind could see that thousands of years ago and use it to trick a bunch illiterate nobodies to become believers. Did you see any plot holes in that explanation? Any thing that needs imagination to believe?

>to show you the way

Oh I'm good. I've faith. I'm a believer. I don't need a guide, I'm a leader…my own and the ones that put their trust in me.

>>751982

Ask yourself why after 2019 years religions are still so unclear about themselves that people like you have to ask.

>>751992

Made a mistake…

>filled my life with meaning

No, that's called faith. Magnificent natural trait of human beings and one of the most powerful motivators we have. You just been tricked to direct it at a prison, you put yourself into. A jew made concept that makes you vulnerable, that prevents you from helping others in dire need of it and that gives the non believing jew the freedom commit atrocities. Believing in something that gives evil more power over you is evil in itself. See faith was given to you to use at your convenience to whatever deserves to get it. That also why a mother can put her faith momentarily into herself to lift a car under which her child is stuck. And if some average Joe like me can see something as logical as this, then a criminal jewish mastermind could see that thousands of years ago and use it to trick a bunch illiterate nobodies to become believers. Did you see any plot holes in that explanation? Any thing that needs imagination to believe?

>>751992

You are really arrogant, you are even taking away the possibility of empirical experience of something that may not have been given to you

ofcourse you thin you are god

this was first sin, pride, it will cost you everything

>>751997

I'm neither arrogant, prideful and certainly not delusional enough to call myself a god. In fact I'm introspected, keep silent most of the time, and only ever speak when I can apply the truth that makes others think. This made me a lot of friends and enemies. I don't shy away from critic, but I would rather read about your thoughts on my arguments instead of your insults against me. If it's all bullshit, then by all means take me apart.

>>751982

It's really the alternative, God will let you choose to defy him and suffer the consequences

The Bible doesn't allow for universal salvation

>>752000

You are redpilled about jews and have good points problem is that world is going to end and as a christian i will stand for what is foolisch to you becous i belive in Jesus the greatest man and God himself, and i know in your eyes its stupid but i know its true and when the times come world will see and confess that Christ is the Lord.

>>751999

Checked!

>so what are you evangelizing for here?

I'm not the merchant selling lies, I'm only here to offer a simple explanation that makes sense, instead of books full of contradictions that make some anon 2019 years later ask a question like "Why do I even have to believe in God?" How insane is it that a human being in our times, with our evolutionary make up, can ask this question and the believers can still not give him a satisfying answer?

>your meaningless evolutionary bi product of good and evil

Something all holy scriptures are constantly referring to, also the core human ability to judge morality by applying common sense. Doesn't seem meaningless to me at all.

The rest of your answer is a convoluted wall of text that not only not addresses anything I said, but frankly confuses me. How is it that at lost sheep like OP comes to you for answers and only ever gets vague scriptures, empty promises, and walls of text? Why do you not have straight answers to simple predicaments they face presently? And even if OP is a troll, the content of this thread and your answers to him are the same thing billions of people faced while asking believers of all religions for answers.

Why can you not answer directly? Tell me how nature itself as the creator of all live, doesn't explain everything the religions are struggling to answer for millennia? You can go outside and dig your hand into the dirt to feel that it is alive, that is more truth than religions ever gave the believers.

>>752013

I don't judge you for what you believe in, I call you out for what you don't do while believing in it. Your people are out there dying and you give them nothing because of your believe. Get Jesus on your shoulders, put the crucifix on and get out there helping your kin. That's what Jesus would have done.

>>752020

Jesus done everything, he opened the window in heaven for everyone, everyone who heard about him has a choice, I am not ashamed what i believe and try answer question but you and everyone have free wil and its not on me

>>752023

>its not on me

Yes it is. You are the savior if you want to be the savior. And since you're a part of a collective of believers, you're an army of saviors hiding from their responsibilities. You could be there with the people in France who need you, standing together in the name of Jesus Christ showing the evil of this world the holy cross. You can even do this completely non violent. You could be the moral compass this world needs right now, instead you chose to hide behind jewish fairy tales. Why? Why do I not see a Christian holding the cross into the face of the police shouting "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER" ? Is that too much to ask?

>>751992

ok, if you really want my thoughts

>Another man made story, shrouded in unexplainable mysteries, taking place in the environment of our dreams and hopes. Billions of humans questioned it, believers spend endless times on defending it, and if it were written by the Brother's Grimm even a kid would see that it's just a tale to teach us simple morals.

its old story like our consciousness or maybe subconsciousness (((shrouded in unexplainable mysteries))) this is the simplest admission of guilt taht we humans winnie the poohed up. is this really happened you ask, does it matter? its true in some way

>Not if you're dead because you let yourself be tricked into ignoring evil directed at you.

i meant until dead after it you can't do anything, silly

>Another dream instead of creating one yourself. We were given the talents to create, the consciousness to judge, and the power to uphold the morals our common sense dictates us. Would you even be able to spot a savior if you see him? Hitler was the last Jesus walking on earth, Yasser Arafat tried to be a savior, John F. Kennedy saw the light and started to take down evil, shortly before he was slain by the deceiving jews who killed all the others.

so you implying, you can save yourself and know evrything best? I think i can separate Jesus from Hitler but would I be able to spot a savior if I see him? i hope so.

>What's so funny about that? How is our twisted world, in which next to no human can make out any sense, a better explanation than the simple facts I stated? These three groups explain everything going on around us, yet you won't even try to look at it. Just look at the atheists…the term was created to lump together all the people who didn't fall for the jewish lie of religion. Then that term was used to not only discredit them for being unbelievers, but to sick the believers against them to convert them (with violence). Now fast forward and look where the atheist ended up…hedonistic worshipers of capitalism (another jewish religion) and oh boy are those guys fanatics to the point of self destruction.

Its not /pol/ you know, i know the Jews issue but you can't classify people like that, there are good jews and a lot of bad other races. I understand you see it like this but i have different perspective.

>Another unnecessary term for something so logical. When we die, we become dirt (check out the FBI's death-house to see that process in all of it's glory), and dirt becomes part of life again. A never ending cycle of nature. How can a common sense truth like this be called a belief?

materialistic world had beginning in time and will end someday but God is eternal

>i believe there's a lot more

i meant spiritual world and higher beings

>Oh I'm good. I've faith. I'm a believer. I don't need a guide, I'm a leader…my own and the ones that put their trust in me.

I still think this is winnie the poohin arogant. How old are you?

>>751864

>Like what I need is the ultimate 101 that's structured, linear and explains everything including the beginning, Jesus, me and the future etc.

read the bible

>>752028

let's suppose you are right but you judge me and dont know me i'm trying my best im still responding to you even that I know that your intentions are not honest. you don't want to understand you already chosen your path

>>752040

>you judge me

I judge you for how somebody else made you chose stagnation instead of going forward. How do you justify that, being impassive, while everything in this world always moves forward, which is enforced by the rules of nature? Letting events that are fully contradicting your lines of believe go past you without standing up to them, while you have the means to do so, is unnatural behavior.

>don't know me i'm trying my best

I wish you nothing but the best anon and wasn't attacking you personally. What we have here (8chan) is a concept where we are all the same and only our opinions make a difference. This is a powerful tool to create, to learn, to educate, to do good and bad, and to entertain ourselves. The people here are not interested in you, only in the thoughts you carry I your brain. So don't be discouraged and participate freely, you don't have to uphold someones opinion here and you're not the gatekeeper of Christianity.

>your intentions are not honest

I swear I only want to tell the truth, find people who are smarter than me and take it apart or people who try to find a better way of understanding in it.

>you don't want to understand

I already do. I'm well aware of religious faith and fully understand your motivations to follow it. I still try to take any chance I get to question the narrative so many of you are struggling to find answers to, and providing a simpler answer for it. Would give my words more value if I were a man of cloth? Why not use anonymity to bounce off ideas freely? What can it hurt?

>you already chosen your path

Nope, that was nature and it's straight down into the ground.

>>752057

what if you are wrong, have you ever wonder about it?

You can be smart as winnie the pooh but will never know where do thoughts come from in your head?

>>752020

>How insane is it that a human being in our times, with our evolutionary make up, can ask this question and the believers can still not give him a satisfying answer?

Well that's the thing. People have in fact. Some of the greatest thinkers of thought have given an answer to this, Augustine, C.S Lewis,Chesterton, Many of the saints, and even some of the pagan Philosophers. Which Orthodox Christianity doesn't base its grounds on pagan philosophy. But that doesn't mean they were all wrong. Contrary to popular belief of that image of a Christian, or Religious man who has to hold back the tide of other worldviews or beliefs. On the contrary it's the opposite way around. The church's greatest thinkers recognized the good points they made, in other systems. Even something Like Taoism makes some pretty close points to Christianity. And there's even a book on it called, which i haven't read, but i hear it's a pretty good book from converts of that faith called, Christ the Eternal Toa. Second point is that's what makes the Christian faith sound out from all the others. Is that Death, Death in the Orthodox Theological outlook is that, Death is unnatural because man wasn't made natural from the beginning. But supernatural. Which Father Seraphim Rose in his talk on Genesis, compares, you see it's different. In roman Catholicism it's different. They say man was *Made* Natural from the beginning. And that he had supernatural grace added to him. And when he fell he lost that grace. Which is a problem cause that allows for Evolution to come in. Which is totally mind blowing in comparison to Orthodoxy. Not so simple as, all religions are the same and bunk. Also in the evolutionary view you're supposing which just happens to line up with the modern Materialist of our day. Death is actually natural, and is in fact more powerful than life itself. Because death, under What you're supposing with Evolution is more natural and more Power. Cause Death is Eternal. Where as life is just a Fleeting Glimpse in the universe of Meaninglessness. And what Contradictions? You mean those contradictions that we just suppose to be true. From the Skeptic camp? things like all religions all false, Miracles don't exist, etc. Which most of the time is just being presupposed, and never makes an argument as to why. The best i've heard was from, Hume. Outside of that, the last serious attempt was from the Logical Positivist. And now look where that is, no one takes Logical Positivism seriously. I'd recommend some, Father Seraphim rose. He had a good lecture on the fall and Genesis actually which i've seen posted on here a couple of times. But from where i've come questioning, Materialism, Naturalism, to the more rundown New atheism. It really seems like Folly. Something like Philosophical Idealism, or just Bare bones Theism must be more true, or Coherent then something like Humes Skepticism. That's where i'm at. Also i mean you're stating a position whether we want to admit it or not. We all have our set of axioms we all hold to a beliefs. I don't mind the challenge, and questioning. It's what got me out of Skepticism, Hume, and Low grade atheism. Even In Christianity the idea that you arrive and heaven and now know all. All questions are resolved. It's not so simple in Orthodoxy even in the eternal we're always learning from God, he's Eternal, Omniscience. Infact as others have suggested read, some the Church fathers, and you'll find that, they actually had some pretty interesting debates with the Real pagans of their days. People of life force worship, etc. And has endured some nasty crisis es. The Arin Crisis comes to my mind first. Otherwise as for this anti religious attitude. As C.S Lewis said, if you wear blue spectacles, you'll always see blue then. But no from a Christian perspective, we don't believe that all the faiths of the world were always 100% wrong. Being made in the image of, God one would expect creatures of a fallen nature to get at least certain things right. But like you're sounding. If you're an, Atheist or materialist you have to believe that all of the worlds faiths have been wrong from the outset. Even Nature worship, Life force worship it's all wrong. As hume would tell you.

>>752073

How can it be wrong to offer a simple answer that so far nobody here even attempted to dismantle?

Instead I got a hell of a lot of character assassination attempts.

As for being wrong…please by all means wash my head. I'm open to change my mind at any time.

>>752083

i think gospel is more simple than your mixed worldview and rhetoric

you have some points but they only show me God almighty

>>752102

Playing devil's advocate, it's more scientifically sound to assume the more explainable answer of the conscious being a product of the body than it is to assume the conscious mind of human beings is the literal only thing in the entirety of the observable universe that violates the laws of physics and belongs to an immaterial plane.

>>752102

>impossible to prove

They spend their whole live together in hundreds of billions of humans, since our creation. If there is nothing else then the truth is always what you already know, because you can only call it a lie if you disprove it.

How would you even come to the idea when we never separated them from each other? Who put an idea in your head that would make you go against natural logic? Nothing on this planet supports the idea of a separation between body and soul other than fiction and everything you know about those two is that the live and work together. It's that simple. Where am I wrong?

>>752107

I agree with this, even if that sentence makes my brain feel like someone's playing Tetris with it.

>>752108

where you are when you sleeping? that caused such thinking. Every winnie the pooh religion belive in life after death becouse you have soul who live in your body and when you are dead soul go to hades or something laike this, this is not jewisch concept

>>752110

go read some books then maybe you understand what he>>752074 is talking about

>>752115

I do understand, but it's about how he said it and why he chose to say it like this in here.

>>752113

>where you are when you sleeping?

Resting, dreaming?

>because you have soul who live in your body

Not live in, live within your body. They can't exist without each other. They work in tandem to create a unit.

>when you are dead soul go to hades

No prove whatsoever, not in humans, not in animals, not in anything natural. Hell, a machine doesn't work if you take the "brain" out. What we do have lots of prove of are dead humans with no conscious activity. Brain dead corpses waiting for the worms to munch on them.

>>752119

I was trying to show you that it isn't jewish concept its all

I dont care what you think

>>752298

You're really trying to get a bunch of Christians to defend what the synagogue of Satan believes? Go yell at the chicken spinners. We won't stop you.

OP here. This thread really did derail. However, I have another question. What was the point if everything between Adam's Fall and Jesus's coming? Why do those covenants and laws if Jews were going to fail anyway and needed Jesus to come? I just don't understand the point of anything between Adam and Jesus and how it fits into human salvation.

>>752548

In between kneading bread and eating it, what's the point of sticking it in an oven?

>>752548

The Old Covenant was a slow unraveling of God to mankind. Humanity was not ready to be so close to God right after the fall, pre-flood humanity especially was extremely depraved which is why it deserved God's wrath. Instead of magically just "fixing" mankind on the spot God chose to put all the pieces into place one by one. This was done because God actually respects humanity's free will, the problem is that humanity disrespects the gift of free will God gave us, and after we fail and face the consequences God eventually restores us. He did not allow the Jews to fall forever because he promised that he would never again destroy them like he did in the flood, even if Israel deserved it many times after. This is the Old Testament cycle.

The events of the Old Testament foreshadow the New Testament and the final true redemption with Jesus. Jesus offered himself up because the sacrifices of the Jews were not sufficient to wash away their sins. They waited for a Messiah to rescue them. Jesus made the one true sacrifice to redeem all of mankind, not just in the future but past and present as well. That includes the Jews, who awaited their Messiah to have their salvation. Jesus is that prophetic Messiah.

Basically read Hebrews and Romans.

>>752563

there was a lot of no jewish written religion system, hinduism, buddism, sumerian partly

also we got your point, it's jews alwasy

>>752563

bible was written and edited in about 1000 years or more, you are ignorant and don't know the subject

>>752872

>These were the movements I was talking about. Natural bound, simple faith systems using their morals to worship their superstitions (the things they couldn't explain on their own). All fine and dandy, but devoid of a set of rules that enslaves them to the written word. Therefore not corrupted yet, the jews disarmed these later on.

Not as natural as you want it to be. They believe in soul also.

>Don't blind yourself with that term "jews". They stole it, just like they stole Judaism, just like their stole Jerusalem. Their originated in Asia, as a group of mongols that was so anti-social that they were driven out of the continent, which brought them into Russia. From there on out they existed by being nomadic criminals, who would spread all over the globe, using race-mixing to hide in between foreign civilization as to gain advantage to take over and destroy their nations from within. They are not really a race anymore, their origins are so muddied by race-mixing, inbreeding and all the psychopathic traits that led to a criminal subspecies, completely separated from any kind of morality.

i heard a little about it. maybe. but then the bible was written by true jews and then corrupted

>No. The bible was founded on the commandments, and ever since were tales of morality added that gave the believers ways to find excuses as to why they can't uphold the laws in the first place. Take for example the most fool proof law there is…you shall not murder. It can't get more obvious than that, and yet countless of little vaguely described children's stories later, the believers found ways to read between the lines and somehow made up justifications as to why they enslave, torture and murder hundreds of billions of living creatures every year, why sawing apart a fetus inside the womb is okay, why poisoning someone to death is no problem and so on.

i dont even coment it, You lose yourself in your theories

the further away, the worse. the less explanations, the more holes

>The creators, the destroyers and the ones who enslaved both of them with nothing but lies written on paper. See how easy it is to explain the entire human history when you're not hold back by making up complex lies to justify your own errors? And it all fits like a glove.

fits for people like you who don't want accept the true and instead create """simple""" theories

>>752575

Yea but if the law and covenants were never enough to save anyone before Christ, why do them at all? What did the followers even gain by doing it?

>>753431

Bump for this

>>751982

Jesus opened the possibility for salvation, it's not a done deal. He Himself said that He would testify against people in the judgement.

>responding to obvious bait and giving him (You)'s

I miss the old pagan poster. His argumentation was at least more coherent than New Age quasi-naturalism mishmashed with muh Hitler and 'Jewish time ninjas are responsible for every written religion'.

A joke doesn't need to be refuted, it may simply be laughed at. Though I suppose it would be nice to have a replacement for the Saturnposter once he moves to Japan to breed the ultimate Hapa.

>>754895

So people were saved before Christ by following old Covenants? So what was the point of establishing the new covenant based on his sacrifice if you could be saved without it?

>>751937

>What was the point of the old testament period if God knew they would rebel and fail?

This is complicated and people have proposed lots of different hypotheses. We are not likely to understand the answer fully in this life.

My own best guess goes something like this–God could have created people who wouldn't have rebelled and fallen, but those people would not have been us. They would have been a different kind of person, and we would not exist. God isn't trying to maximize some abstract notion of "goodness" like a human utilitarian, God loves each of us personally despite our failures and wants to bring us to perfection. The only way to do that is to create us knowing that we'll sin, and offer a pathway to redemption.

>>756509

>So people were saved before Christ by following old Covenants?

People who were saved before Christ's time on Earth were still saved by Christ. Time doesn't work the way you think it does.

>>756784

So basically the covenants before Christ were temporary? But I heard nobody could keep the covenants (so nobody got saved) hence why the Israelites kept failing necessitating the need of Jesus….

>>751939

>I take a position called open theism, where God didn't know because God is in time.

That's ridiculus.

There's no time for God. Time was created by God. God lies outside time. For him everything is an eternal present. That's why he says: I AM WHO IS.

And that's why Jesus says: Before Abraham was, I AM. now grammatically Jesus should have said he was, not I Am. winnie the pooh mistake right?

No and it just proves God IS before Abraham. For Him past doesn't exist, nor does future, because he always knows what's gonna happen and he tells that to the prophets, and in the NT Jesus knows everything the apostles will do, like in the case of Judas and Peter.

If God is all-knowing that's a requirent for him to know everytime past present and future.

If God is the First Cause, the Absolute Being, time cannot exist outside Him, otherwise time would contain God, thus God wouldn't be God.

Time and Space were created by God, therefore he is outside of the created things.

The "God" you describe is the god of the Mormons.

>>762918

So can you answer the question then if you disagree with him? What was the point of the Old Testament, Mosaic Law and Covenants prior to the New Covenant if God knew they would never suffice?

>>768472

Some of those laws were just signs/symbols. Even in the Old Testament times, the prophets said as much, and people were still hardheaded on what true justice and sacrifice was. They still missed the spirit of the law:

"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

[THE REAL LAW]

Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." [Isaiah 1:11-17]

"For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." [Hosea 6:6]

I should mention that Isaiah was dismembered and kicked out. Just like they killed Jesus later. Few want to hear the truth, no matter the age we live in.