/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>751157

Oh boy … here we go again …

>>751163

I don't mean to start a fight. We're all gathered here in the body of Christ and His name. I am not ignorant of the fact that this is a contentious topic but I do have my questions and I need everyone here in the good spirit of charity to help me understand. My catechism was too long ago for me to have a good understanding of this issue.

Catholics and orthodoxes venerated the Holy mother of God.

Heretical prots think they can please the Son while shitting on His mother.

Its better for you to look more info on Catholic encyclopedia tbh.

three will be a flood of Baptists here in a second

>>751167

Then why don't you go read actual Catholic sources instead of coming here when you know it'll cause infighting among Christians?

>>751168

I mean venerate because we still do. winnie the pooh auto correct.

I see a number of parallels between Mary and the Arc of the Covenant, both carried the bread and the Law. The Holy Bible tells us that Jesus was conceived in the womb without sin, so it stands to reason that Mary probably didn't carry the stain of the Original Sin (was she immortal?). I have great sympathy for the Catholic position even if right now I don't fully understand it, but seeing how Protestants are so adamant in their rejection of her apparitions, I wish to know why that is.

>>751171

>probably didn't carry the stain of the Original Sin

Not probably. Definitely she had no sin.

>was she immortal

Death is our penalty for sin. She had none so she was assumed bodily to heaven, like we will in the end times.

Every human is immortal, but we sinners had to pay the price for the sin of Adam.

>>751171

There are multiple Reasons they are adamant against it. I'll list several.

>they claim it's idolatry

>they don't receive the fullness of the faith

>they don't understand the importance of her

>they dont know understand how she helped christs ministry

>they dont believe in miracles like her apparitions

>they dont understand how God loved her more than all others

>>751168

>Its better for you to look more info on Catholic encyclopedia tbh.

Can you give me a good source that I can consult, anon?

>>751169

I don't wish for infighting though I do welcome polite but vigorous debate. The irreverence of the Protestants is something that I find dumbfounding but I wish to know their objections and the arguments against their positions. And I also wish to know how do we know that her apparitions are legitimate. This troubles me greatly since Our Lady promised salvation to my country and that the dogmas of the church wouldn't fail us.

>>751175

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

>>751175

Kek és um português.

E o nosso país foi salvo. Da segunda guerra mundial é do comunismo.

E apesar da degeneração por pagar se por toda a Europa ainda nos seguramos mais ou menos. Além disso a próxima geração ainda tem muito para contar.

>>751174

>they claim it's idolatry

Well, I know it's not idolatry. We just understand that Mary and the Saints to be great examples of the faith and we dedicate dulia to them.

>they don't receive the fullness of the faith

Can you please elaborate?

>they don't understand the importance of her

I don't understand also. I can see parallels with the Arc of the Covenant and I can extrapolate her importance from what is said about the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ. But that's about all I understand, the Scriptures have her as a bit of a background character for the most part so I wish to understand more. Where does the devotion for Mary comes from and what were the positions of the Church Fathers?

>they dont know understand how she helped christs ministry

Can you explain?

>they dont believe in miracles like her apparitions

But how do we know they are not demonic, anon?

>they dont understand how God loved her more than all others

If she had no sin, and God being Just and being Good, it stands to reason that she was immortal. She had to be the perfect vessel to bear Our Lord.

>>751157

>what is the Orthodox position

We agree with you in venerating the Theotokos.

>>751183

>But how do we know they are not demonic, anon?

Because the church investigates them sometimes even for more than 20 years.

First they check if it has nothing contrary to the faith (Fátima checks out), the personality and humbleness and modesty of the witnesses (Fátima checks out, Jacinta's sacrifices almost made me cry.), then they follow what our Blessed Lord taught us, to see if the fruits are good and if they are the Church approves the miracle.

No Catholic is forced to believe though but its a more than reasonable to believe.

>>751182

>E o nosso país foi salvo. Da segunda guerra mundial é do comunismo.

E é aí que se esgota a promessa?

>>751186

>No Catholic is forced to believe though but its a more than reasonable to believe.

My priest told me exactly that.

>>751183

>2

There is One Church, the universal church. But, narrow is the path. As in, there may be multiple way to express the Faith of Christ but there is One Pathway that is absolute, and that pathway goes through straight through Catholic Faith.

>3

Christ even had one of his Apostles look over her specifically. If this isn't a clear sign to her devotion I don't know what is.

>4

She was always there, always, even when the apostles were not. She was the biggest devotee of them all.

>5

Faith, really is the only way here.

>6

Jesus Him self loved her more than all the others.

>>751187

Essa era a promessa.

Mas além disso o nosso país não está perdido de longe.

Mas aquilo que vemos no mundo atual é predito por Fátima.

Ela pediu a consagração do Sagrado coração de Maria a Rússia por todos os bispos do mundo nos anos 40, e se tal não fosse feito a Rússia ia espalhar os seus erros pelo mundo (comunismo e toda a paneleirice que vemos hoje). A Igreja não o fez, e tal como ela disse a Lúcia depois vão se arrepender como o rei de França (aquele que lhe cortaram a cabeça, vê a história de santa Margarida.). Só o João Paulo faz a consagração na década de 80.

Lucia diz que Deus aceitou mas já foi demasiado tarde. Ainda assim salvamos a Rússia, mas os seus erros já se tinham propagado como um polvo pelo mundo.

Prots don't necessarily disrespect Mary afaik. But they're autistic literalists, who think when Jesus said to the Apostle John "Behold your mother!" that he only meant John alone.

>>751190

Eu agora vou dormir que tenho de acordar cedo.

Mas se tiveres mais dúvidas posta e eu responderei tanto quanto sei amanhã.

>>751191

Lol

>>751168

Disingenuous. I have never disrespected the mother of our Lord, I simply pray to our Loed directly. I do not insult His mother.

>>751188

>Christ even had one of his Apostles look over her specifically. If this isn't a clear sign to her devotion I don't know what is.

But can't that explained away as Our Lord wanting to simply have someone look out for her Blessed Mother?

>>751190

>>751192

Eu agradeço a tua disposição.

>Mas além disso o nosso país não está perdido de longe.

Bem, isso custa muito a acreditar. Rezo para que seja verdade, mas não é isso que eu vejo.

>Lucia diz que Deus aceitou mas já foi demasiado tarde.

Isso traz-me algum consolo. Portanto a Consagração foi aceite? Mesmo por um Papa que cometeu a abominação de Assisi?

>>751209

>But can't that explained away as Our Lord wanting to simply have someone look out for her Blessed Mother

If you want to not embrass the depth of Christ and his actions, sure. You can take the shallow approach. Honestly nothing wrong with it, but if you do that you leave the fullness of what the Faith can mean to your life.

>>751262

catholodorks BTFO

XD

>>751262

arguing against heretics is tiresome, we can only the Lord to rebuke you

>>751190

>Esqueça sobre a URSS, Fátima é sobre comunismo mesmo quando nem sequer o nome URSS é mencionado. Quando a Rússia for convertida, a utopia virá e Roma reinará suprema. O mundo virá ao catolicismo. Todass as outras instituições se curvarão ao papado. O pecado desaparecerá e toda injustiça será destruída. Não haverá mais guerras, doenças ou sofrimento. Somente a Rússia está no caminho.

Fátima é obviamente uma invenção política e o seu orgulho o deixou cego.

>>751262

>And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. (Luke 1:28)

>And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. (Luke 1:42)

>Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. (Luke 1:48)

>B-but that's idolatry (no actual Christian ever)

>>751284

>oh hey, btw Jesus, your mom is very blessed to carry you in her womb

<make sure to worship her and send your prayers to her

<also make sure to call her the Queen of Heaven, a pagan title Canaanites gave to their goddess.

<because even though Jesus said only through Him can you reach the Father, our traditions dictate that praying to the Queen of Heaven will also get you to the Father

Seems legit

>>751285

>wow you call Jesus God? You do know pagans use idea of god for their worship???

>the Queen of Heaven will also get you to the Father

No one claims this.

>make sure to worship her and send your prayers to her

We don't worship her

>>751294

I've never crafted an idol.

Do you know about iconography?

Those in Heaven are still living members of the body of Christ. She is as a fellow sister on earth.

>>751325

What? Do you think the mother of Jesus wouldn't be in Heaven?

>>751209

Yep foi aceite. As consagracoes e resto dos ritos não dependem do estado de alma do sacerdote. O mesmo se passa com a Eucaristia. É válida mesmo que o padre seja um pedófilo.

>But can't that explained away as Our Lord wanting to simply have someone look out for her Blessed Mother?

Maria em São Lucas diz que lhe chamarão abençoada todas as gerações.

>>751334

>she woudlnt be in heaven

<depends on whether or not she was saved doesnt it?

<contrary to heretical feminized christianity, simply popping a kid out does not grant salvation

>>751262

>2nd Image

Excuse me you what?

Exodus 35:30-35

Then Moses said to the people of Israel, “See, the Lord has called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;

and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, with intelligence, with knowledge, and with all craftsmanship,

to devise artistic designs, to work in gold and silver and bronze

in cutting stones for setting, and in carving wood, for work in every skilled craft.

And he has inspired him to teach, both him and Oholiab the son of Ahisamach of the tribe of Dan.

He has filled them with skill to do every sort of work done by an engraver or by a designer or by an embroiderer in blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twined linen, or by a weaver—by any sort of workman or skilled designer.

>>751469

She had no sin, why would she be on heaven? For God's sake even if you don't believe in the dogmas of the immaculate conception and the assumption of Mary (may Christ have mercy upon your soul) she was literally the mother of God she was the most saintly person that ever lived so God could choose her from all the women.

My God what kind of cult is yours? All the normal prots, although they don't venerate her, regard her as the mother of God, not the mother of some kid.

>popping a kid out does not grant salvation

A kid? That kid is literally God. And how can you put poop and God in the same sentence? Smash your head against a wall and apologise before it's too late.

You are directly baspheming Christ.

>>751472

>poop

<popping

Huh…

>she had no sin

<then what was the point of Christ?

>>751472

Moses met God the Father on Sinai, but was far from perfect. Why did the mother of Christ need to be different? God chose sinners all the time in the Old Testament.

>>751262

Biblepilled

>>751475

To save us from sin. Mary and jesus and the new Adam and Eve. None of them could be born with the old sin, although that would be impossible for Jesus since he's God.

>>751490

Did the salvation come from Moses? No it didn't. The salvation came from Jesus not from the Law.

To conceive God in her womb of course she had to be pure.

If the woman who was predicted to smash the serpent's head was under dominion of the same snake how could she smash her master?

>>751504

You're allowing platonism to supercede the Bible

"All have sinned and fall short of the of God". Mary is not given an exception.

>>751270

O Bom Livro adverte-nos contra prestar falso testemunho. Porque chamas milhares de pessoas que testemunharam um milagre de mentirosos?

>>751490

My understanding is that Moses had to be imperfect since he was not the Redeemer. If you assume that the Arc of the Covenant is prophetising Mary, then it all becomes clear, from Mary came the bread that saved the world and she was obedient to the Law and had no since. This is Sola Scriptura, this is what the Bible tells us about Mary, that her sanctity was a necessary step to bare Our Lord. Needless to say that this is not idolatrous, it is simply a devotion to all the good examples in Christianity, Mary being the highest since she was free from sin, original or personal, and was the worthy vessel. Honestly, I can't understand why people disregard Mary as just some desert gal when the biblical parallels all attest to her greatness.

Also, my understanding of the apparitions of Our Lady is that she never denies the gospels, she never rewrites them, she never brings forth new understanding of them. She's only problematic in the sense that she affirms the Catholic dogma and particular the need of the Eucharist and obedience to the priesthood. This is the only reason why Protestants deny her, I really can't see any other motive other than it declaring their faith incomplete.

>>751517

Then the Son of God was born of a women who was under the domain of Satan. What kind of logic is that? How could she be full of grace then?

And besides Mary was preserved of Sin. At the moment of her making in her mothers womb, God preserved her from the sin of Adam.

>You're allowing platonism to supercede the Bible

<every thing that is against protestant theology is Platonism.

OK kid.

>>751531

>O Bom Livro adverte-nos contra prestar falso testemunho. Porque chamas milhares de pessoas que testemunharam um milagre de mentirosos?

porque é um protestante brasileiro

>Also, my understanding of the apparitions of Our Lady is that she never denies the gospels,

Of course not. In fact there can not be extra revelations. It's a dogma of the church that all revelation stopped with the death of the last Apostle.

Its actually a criteria to rule out apparitions if someone claims the heavens gave him a new revelation

>>751551

>How could she be full of grace then?

Jesus was equally man, this is not a problem in scripture

Do you see the contradiction with "all have sinned" and "Mary had no sin"?

Is this an error in scripture to you?

>Everything that is against Protestant theology is platonism

Not what I'm alleging at all, reformed theology is the ultimate christian manifestation of platonism

>>751555

>Do you see the contradiction with "all have sinned" and "Mary had no sin"?

I do see a contradiction and in all truthfulness I don't know how to resolve this. But conversely I see that Our Lady's apparitions are always benign affirmations of Faith on Jesus Christ and the rest of the Holy Trinity.

>>751562

Is it possible that the apparitions are falsified?

You should read into cessationism

>>751566

Falsified by whom? And for what purpose? If she was dispensing bad theology I would agree but that is definitely not the case. As it stands, there are too many witnesses to these miracles, they simply can not be denied. Why would demons heal the sick and affirm the Scriptures?

So if Mary is without sin, what about her parents, how could the Mother of God be born from sinners?

The Orthodox Church's (my Church) position on the Virgin is that she is to be highly revered above all Saints. We refer to her as the God-bearer (Theotokos), Queen of Heaven (Rev. 12), The Ark of the New Covenant, and the Blessed Ever-Virgin. Her prayers to Christ are heard first, and Her intercession is held in the highest regard in our Church.

>>751569

They would be good people but not necessarily sinless. The point is not having Mary being from a saintly bloodline (although that is more or less true) but that there is a degree of separation between Our Lord Christ and humanity.

>>751568

For adding credibility to a false system

You said it yourself that you're willing to look past a contradiction with scripture because of the testimony of apparition witnesses

When Mormons do that, it's not acceptable, is it?

>>751573

The Bible nowhere speaks of her sinlessness, and it does not seem necessary to me. Maria deserve for honor and respect, but why make her the queen of the heavens?

>>751575

I didn't say that I'm willing to look past the Scriptures, I just don't have an answer for contradiction. And right now I do acknowledge it as a contradiction, I wholeheartedly see your point.

>When Mormons do that, it's not acceptable, is it?

It is not the same thing. Mary affirms the Scriptures, Joseph Smith added to the Scriptures. At the very least understand this is the case.

>>751555

St. Paul is talking to Jewish Christians. He isn't talling in an absolute way.

He says the jews are like the gentiles because they, the Jews and Saint Paul included sinned too.

Also even Martin Luther upholds this doctrine of you are a protestant.

>>751585

That's a consistent reading, but I disagree hermeneutically

Is that taught somewhere in a Catholic source? "Have sinned" in romans 3 is indicative grammar wise

>>751585

my problem is why the winnie the pooh Mary is the greatest saint. ok she is Mather of God but why angel comes to she and not God himself like befor, to Moses or Enoch?

i grow up in """"""protestant""""" church but i don't identify with them

>>751594

>ok she is Mather of God but why angel comes to she and not God himself like befor, to Moses or Enoch?

This is a very good point.

>>751594

I believe there is evidence God shown himself through his angels to Moses and Enoch. I don't remember the source tho

I think that Maria or the queen of the heavens is one problem and the idolaters are the second, even the muslims do not have paintings and sculptures, the word is supposed to convey the content not the visible things

>>751592

Well no one understood Romans that way until the protestant reformation.

That must be in some apologetic manuals and biblical comments.

>>751594

>ok she is Mather of God but why angel comes to she and not God himself like before

You've said yourself. She is the mother of God. An angel came to her but in her womb was God himself. The greatest honor one can have. Even the angel gave her a salutation. Honor thy father and thy mother, and that's what Jesus does. >>751600

>>751603

I think that the Septuagint says Angel of the Lord, but that sometimes could mean God Himself.

>even the muslims do not have paintings and sculptures,

That's why Islam is a religion of retards. Why would we Christians imitate them?

Early Christians already had paintings of the martyrs and saints why the winnie the pooh should Christianity be influenced by moorish shit?

>>751610

>Well no one understood Romans that way until the protestant reformation.

show me

>>751612

https://sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home

You can try looking here. It has all the comments of the fathers on the bible as far as I know. I can't find a comment on on Romans 3:23.

>>751620

how can you tell me that my reading of Romans 3:23 is opposed to the fathers when you're not aware of a single father who talked about it?

>>751621

Because you are implying that that passage destroys the dogma of the immaculate conception.

Which isn't true because every father, (except St. Chrystostom, Origen and St. Basil in a single sentence though they imply that Mary had doubts for example) , say that the Virgin Mary was untouched by sin. Tradition would be in this case contradicting Scripture which isn't possible and with all the heretics living then I am surprised that no one pick that up, we'll maybe because they knew the context of Romans and why was it written. It was Luther who started the meme of using Romans to attack catholics namely on Justification, where he fails miserably because Paul mentions the works of the law only. But even Luther admitted that Mary was immaculate.

>>751627

I'm giving Catholic theologians the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they were aware of the book of Romans, or Isaiah 53 "All we like sheep have gone astray", and that their doctrine of the immaculate conception has some explanation.

As crudely as we've presented it here: "Mary had no sin", there is an immediate contradiction with God's inerrant word

Either way, you're backpedaling because you grossly overstated yourself. Don't make claims unless you're prepared to support them. I'm looking for any church fathers who said "all have sinned" meant anything besides every non-divine person

>>751633

I don't think you understood the Catholic position. Mary was preserved from sin by God. She had to be saved as well like all of us, wasn't she destined to be the mother of the savior she would a sinner like you and me. She was preserved from sin by God her savior.

As for Isaiah it can be easily disregarded because the Lord came to save us. The children of Adam. The lost sheep. Mary was never lost because ekf what I said above.

As for Roman 3:23 is a verse taken out of context. Protestants always seem to forget to whom was the Epistle written that's why wrong conclusions are always taken from it. Works of the law mean that catholics are wrong about justification, but ignore the Epistle was for the Jews and that their law wasn't needed no more. Some of the protestant points are verses taken from romans and other epistles with no context whatsoever always universalising what they say.

Of course multiple interpretations can be made from the bible, even Satan did that against Jesus, but if it doesn't agree with the faith then its a wrong interpretation. Also it would be against genesis 3.

>Either way, you're backpedaling because you grossly overstated yourself. Don't make claims unless you're prepared to support them. I'm looking for any church fathers who said "all have sinned" meant anything besides every non-divine person

How come? I said the father never read Romans that way because they knew what the context of the Epistle was.

It was all protestant novelty that ctrl f some buzzwords and mental gymnastic around it.

I can also make interesting points supporting certain heresies like picking up Mark 13:32 claiming that Christ was ignorant, which He is not and until Arius or wtv first heretic picked it up there was no father who read it in that light. Like Augustine says the attacks of the heretics provide us with a chance to learn more.

That's why I said long ago in this thread that no Father ever though of reading Romans in that light, something that even the reformers didn't do, only later protestants.

>>751647

What have I said that misrepresents the Catholic position?

>How come?

Let's recap:

<Do you see the contradiction with "all have sinned" and "Mary had no sin"?

>He (Paul) isn't talling (sic) in an absolute way.

<Is that taught somewhere in a Catholic source?

>Well no one understood Romans that way until the protestant reformation.

<show me

>…

Still waiting

>>751610

>That's why Islam is a religion of retards.

"4 You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.''

Exodus 20:4-6

>>751627

>>751647

Is Enoch never sined? you know God took him to heaven also dogma of the ascension of Maria was passed in 1950, why not before?

>>751654

><Do you see the contradiction with "all have sinned" and "Mary had no sin"?

I already told you you are reading Romans out of the context.

><Is that taught somewhere in a Catholic source?

Its basic biblical exegesis.

>>Well no one understood Romans that way until the protestant reformation.

<show me

Only the protestants started reading the bible out of context. Why should I be surprised if no one noticed the "problem" if it was protestants who invented it?

>>751673

>Is Enoch never sined? you know God took him to heaven also dogma of the ascension of Maria was passed in 1950, why not before?

If Elijah and Enoch who were sinners were taken up by God why not the Mother of God?

>the ascension of Maria was passed in 1950, why not before?

Dogmas are only stated when needed to.

There was a needed to do this because influenced by the modern world some people were deviating from doctrine in this regard. With the papal anathema whomever says the opposite is excommunicated.

>>751843

so to go to heaven in flesh you can be sinner but Mary has to be sinless to born Jesus?

>>751845

sounds like bullshit to me. first christians had a big problem about trinity or divine of Jesus, why they have not witch divine Mery? becous she was only a woman, blessed and great, mather of God but still

>>751157

I'm Episcopalian/Anglican and literally don't understand why other prots say Mariology is bad.

<Muh idolatry

It's not idolatry, and you're supposed to believe in the communion of saints

>>751916

>first christians had a big problem about trinity or divine of Jesus

What? It was taken as granted. Lol

Yeah the Trinity wasn't defined as clearly as in Nicea but everyone believe in that.

Even roman historians write that the stupid and supersticious Christians worshipped Christ as their God.

>>751958

Besides the Gospel of John was the last nail in the coffin for some heretics who claimed Jesus want God in the end of the 1st century.

There were more heretics who believe Jesus didn't come in mortal flesh then denying his divinity.

>>751673

The Bible itself has God telling the Israelis to build an ark and to make two golden angels. Was this idolatrous? Of course not. To fashion an idol is to make something that is the target of worship and not simply an adornment, a remembrance or something that exalts the good examples of the faith. I think that you're overreaching there, friend.

>>751673

>Is Enoch never sined? you know God took him to heaven also dogma of the ascension of Maria was passed in 1950, why not before?

Right now the dogma states that three people never sin:the Lord Our God Jesus Christ of course, Mary the Blessed Mother which was the blessed vessel and for some reason John the Baptist (which Our Lord said was the greatest among all men). I don't know if there were any other sinless people but the Catholic Church only states the dogma about certain people. There have been saintly people that have walked this world that have not been elevated by the Catholic Church or any other church, there is not one single church that claims to know all the mysteries of the faith and the Catholic Church is not an exception.

>>751963

About John the Baptists, unlike Our Lady which our Lord preserved her from sin from the moment of her conception, St. John the Baptist was saved from sin when Mary visited Elizabeth and the baby John got all happy to receive the visit of his cousin as far as I know.

>>751984

i will never understand your myth(e)ology, bro

but i still love you

>>751984

What are you even talking about? I have never heard this before

>>752046

Yeah, I was stunned when I learned about it too. It makes sense because it affirms the sacrament of baptism but it's one of those weird things about the Catholic dogma.

> Why are the Protestant so irreverent about Our Lady and what is the Orthodox position?

it understandable that you might think Protestants 'irreverent'

that's because you practice forms of veneration to saints that they think to be akin to worship, and Mary the mother of Jesus is held in the highest esteem; receiving the most of this praise

the problem is, protestants don't think anyone – anyone – should be venerated in any way, other than God; with all praise and recognition of grace only being addressed to Him

now reading the prayers said to Mary, we can easily see her being given such titles as Queen of Heaven, Gate of Heaven, Comfort of the Afflicted or Refuge of Sinners

protestants think that the Scripture points to God having sole right to such titles, and thus they cannot possibly ascribe them to that very blessed lady

but this returns us to the question of why you think prots are irreverent of Mary, and i think it's more than understandable if you have been raised to see Mary as befitting such names; to then think anyone who doesn't similarly revere her as blasphemous

>>751173

So Catholics believe that because Jesus was conceived without sin, Mary must have never sinned?

>>751157

The love for Marry has historical and real life roots, it is not something that we disccused among ourselves at some time in the past and decided we'll do from now on. Marry traveled with the apostles, helped them to spread the message, cared for them and was like a mother to all of them and they loved them as their mother too. Being the literal mother of God, having the humanly pain of a mother seeing her son getting tortured and killed, loving and caring about her son's disciples and standing with them at their trials, you can understand why the first Christians loved her so much. This love passed upon to the next generations of Christians until this day.

Protestants, by having no roots to Christianity, are trying to explain this love with their wordly eyes. They read their bad translated Bibles and they say "oh but Christ never said anything about that", but it's something you cannot undestand unless you're an actual Christian, having listen to the message of Christ directly by the apostles. For a protestant, a tranny priest or a power rangers mass is perfectly ok (the Bible doesn't say anything exclusivelly about those anyway), but having love and respect for the Mother of God is somwhow "heretical".

"and they are in the dark in their reasoning. They are disconnected from God’s life because of their ignorance and their closed hearts"