/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

You don't know when you're going to die.

>>732119

you can repent post death though

>>732123

you can repent now

>>732123

you can't repent in hell

>>732117

Our next breath is never guaranteed. Seriously, too many people take life (or good health) for granted. Everyday you wake up in good health, be thankful.

>>732117

>Matthew 20:1-16

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

time to quote Okuto No Ken, I'd say…omae wa mo shindeiru.

Repentance is not merely a legalistic act. It's a state of mind and that mentality is not it.

Never a bad time to repent ever.

>>732133

I don't believe that. If Jesus really is as good as they say he is, I'm completely sure that he will open the eyes of my soul and fill me with understanding and save me no matter what. I'm just an imperfect human being and I can't see or understand everything all the time. Just some of the things some of the time. If I do my best and I end up in hell I'm confident that if Jesus really is as good as they come that I will be saved because of the fact that Jesus is good, not because I'm perfect (because I'm not)

>>732123

If this is about purgatory, then I believe that space is reserved for those who already believe, whereas I feel like your statement is for heathens.

>>732164

And yet there must also be good souls who simply have never heard of Jesus before, drowned out in the ocean of so many other false religions. Do those go to hell forever just because they didn't know? And please don't give me that "they would learn somehow!" I'm talking about the good souls who didn't learn somehow. If Jesus is good then they must be saved as well and there is infinite potential to learn in heaven.

>>732163

>I don't believe that.

It's not about what you believe or not, it's about the truth and truth is there's no saving you when you're already in hell.

>>732167

<For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

>>732123

You cannot.

>>732133

>>732170

sication needed

You're just condeming rats who dare limit God's kindness and have no idea about the philosophical aspects of eternity and mercy

>inb4 but muh vague vague scripture quotes we read on steve anderson's blog say this or that

>>732171

Can you summarize that? I'm having trouble understanding.

>>732177

You are not god, so who are you to decide that? You are not the authority of who is allowed into heaven are you?

>>732193

If you can't be saved after death then that is a very roundabout way of implying that Jesus is powerless. If Jesus is all powerful then anyone can be saved whenever wherever.

>>732170

If hell is off limits to Jesus then that implies that Jesus isn't all powerful. Get my point? If hell is too hot for Jesus to reach into and pull someone up and clean them of their evil, then there's something very wrong.

There's plenty of time to apologize to this guy here on the ground that I'm kicking. For now though I'll keep kicking, it feels just so damn good. Maybe I'll stab him a little too. But as soon as I'm done I'll apologize, I swear.

>>732117

Life in the Kingdom of Heaven starts now. The sooner we get used to it, the better. If you had lived in the dirt your whole life and then converted at the last minute, then it'll be a painful process to shed your attachments in death.

I'm not preaching of Purgatory per se, but the original teaching behind it…first best explained by St. Macrina (sister/teacher of St. Gregory of Nyssa). As she was dying, she comforted her brother to not worry about her. She likened our lives to a man who built a house. At death, the house comes crashing down on us. Depending on your attachments to this world, it could be painful or not much at all. Boards could get lodged into your sides, furniture stabbing you, trapping you, or falling on your head. The Lord visits each man's house at death and pulls him out. For the one who was too attached to the world, it's going to be like hell pulling him out and cleaning him up. I'm sure from the Lord's perspective, this is all happening in an instant.. but to us, it would be almost unbearable and too long for comfort.

>>732203

The day of the Lord in sacred Scripture, is understood to be the day of your death. There is no repentance in death, God is not the God of death, but of the living.

Otherwise, then you tell me even the demons can repent…and then, how can there even be demons, in the first place?

>>732205

You are confused, the fires of Hell is the anger of God. It is not that God cannot subsist in Hell, but that He has set you (if you are damned), and Satan and all his angels aside from Him, forever.

>>732163

>Hahaha Jesus was just kidding when He said that damnation is eternal bro

>What a jokester, haha

>>732211

I know it's just theoretical but what if the kick-ee is a really bad guy?

>>732220

If demons exist that haven't been saved it's probably because they are unwilling to repent. Not because it's impossible for them to be saved. Jesus can do anything.

>>732216

That's interesting.

>>732220

>The day of the Lord in sacred Scripture, is understood to be the day of your death. There is no repentance in death, God is not the God of death, but of the living.

In this world around us, everything is themed in death. Every living thing including us that walks, grows, swims, crawls, or flys about the earth kills or hurts something else in order to live. Even vegans. All those things also eventually die one day of old age and natural causes and all that. So technically speaking, earth (our universe) is the universe themed of death. Technically speaking- we have never really truly lived yet. So- if you are correct and I believe you technically are that God is life based (good things) so to speak, then in dying on earth I believe it is in heaven with God where which we finally truly live for the first time and forever. Technically, to be reborn is to be born for the first time ever and finally. So to say there is no repentance in death may technically be truth in saying that you can't actually fully repend on death earth since you can not fully understand your repentance as an imperfect human being. It is likely that only in true final real life in heaven do we finally understand enough to truly and honestly repent. So repentance pre-death is technically less likely, and post-death (which is in real life in heaven) is likely the real repentance place.

>>732221

Okay lets say you're right. Would God ever set someone aside and away from him forever if God knew that persons soul was actually good? Misunderstandings occur ALL THE TIME, not with God because God knows everything and is all powerful. My point is that misunderstandings and humanity go together. I'm saying it's totally possible that a person had such a wild journey and tough life that it would be totally possible to be led down all the wrong paths and experience such horrors that they end up sort of kind of being well, evil rather unintentionally so and get to the end still suffering and in confusion and despair and ignorance. Would God not take the person and clean them up and save them rather than saying "nah I'll just toss them in the trash" if there is any actual goodness in their soul? Be honest.

>>732230

If you're all about love then it would be a great deception to suddenly not be all about love as a surprise to someone who probably didn't deserve it. What you're arguing is that some people will just go to hell out of spite, not because of actual right and wrong. This way of thinking is flawed because it implies imperfection in Jesus. This is a problem because if someone is all knowing and all love and all good, they must be good and strong enough to make the right choice when it really comes down to the moment of judgement. It's a really big deal to throw someone into hell forever. That's very painful and lasts forever.

>>732247

I really agree with what you said and I often feel that everything humanity does has no meaning. We're like ants to God right? I do believe that God has a plan and is all powerful and controls everything, that I definitely do believe.

What is the definition of repentance?

>>732123

>you can repent post death though

No. During this life we have to make a choice. A choice to live with God, or to live without God. He will honor our choice and give us an eternal life based on our decision.

>>732163

>If I do my best and I end up in hell I'm confident that if Jesus really is as good as they come that I will be saved

God made several promises regarding this (Psalms 145:18, Proverbs 2:3-5, Matthew 7:7-11, Hebrews 11:6, James 4:8). Those who truly seek God, will find Him. If one doesn't find God and ends up in hell, then he is without excuse.

>>732204

>>732205

Damnation does in no way imply that God is unable to save someone from hell. If people don't want God in their lives, then they will have their wish fulfilled. God will give them an eternal life apart from Him.

>>732167

It is my understanding (based on verses like Deuteronomy 1:39, Luke 12:47-48, John 9:40-41, John 15:22-24) that everyone will be judged by the standard of their knowledge. Paul says in Romans 2:12-15 that those without the law will be judged without the law. Whereby will they be judged then? By the law of their conscience. It is safe to assume that those without the knowledge of Jesus Christ, will be judged the same way. Jesus will not judge the world with equality, but with equity (Psalms 98:9).

>>732254

God is wholly good by His very nature, which means that He will never tolerate evil. That is why hell exists: He will put the unrepentant away from Him.

>>732117

>"there is plenty of time for repenting later"

>*gets hit by car and dies instantly*

>>732117

>"there is plenty of time for repenting later"

When a dog goes back to its vomit, it shows where his heart truly is.

https://www.olrl.org/snt_docs/num_sins.shtml

7. Listen, then, O sinner, to the admonition of the Lord: "My son, hast thou sinned? Do so no more, but for thy former sins pray that they may be forgiven thee" – Eccl. 21:1. Son, add not sins to those which you have already committed, but be careful to pray for the pardon of your past transgressions; otherwise, if you commit another mortal sin, the gates of divine mercy may be closed against you, and your soul may be lost forever. When then, beloved brethren, the devil tempts you again to yield to sin, say to yourself: If God pardons me no more, what shall become of me for all eternity? Should the Devil in reply, say: fear not, God is merciful; answer him by saying: What certainty or what probability have I that, if I return again to sin, God will show me mercy or grant me pardon? Behold the threat of the Lord against all who despise His calls: "Because I have called and you refused,…I also will laugh in your destruction, and will mock when that shall come to you which you feared" – Prov. 1:24, 26. Mark the words "I also"; they mean that, as you have mocked the Lord by betraying Him again after your confession and promises of amendment, so He will mock you at the hour of death. I will laugh and will mock. But, "God is not mocked" – Gal. 6:7. "As a dog," says the Wise Man, "that returneth to his vomit, so is the fool that repeateth his folly" – Prov. 26:11. Bl. Denis the Carthusian gives an excellent exposition of this text. He says that, as a dog that eats what he has just vomited, is an object of disgust and abomination, so the sinner who returns to the sins which he has detested and confessed, becomes hateful in the sight of God.

Plenty of people try really hard to be truly faithful servants of Christ and yet they fail, deceive themselves, constantly sin etc. If you’re deliberately putting off repentance until as late as possible, what assurance do you have that you’ll ever have true faith in Christ?

>All this autism again

I'll just leave this here in any case.

http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/The%20River%20Of%20Fire%20-%20Doctor%20Alexandre%20Kalomiros.pdf

>>732237

The point is that you're kicking yourself if you don't repent. To repent is to stop kicking. If the kickee is a really bad guy then you are damming yourself for circular reasons.

Why on earth would you want to waste any time at all when you can be healed and comforted in the love of Our Savior? Do yourself a big favor. REPENT!

>>733607

This is extremely awful post, humanising God.

>>733663

Its called an "analogy"

>>733676

You cant justify an afwul post by saying it's an "analogy", especially when it is wrong to the core. What you said is, as desert fathers put it, as retarded as saying that sun hides itself from the blind.

>>732117

We can die at any moment.

>>732123

After death the only help is the prayers of the living and the grace of God. Effort is for life.

>>732202

They have no excuse because they knew God's creation and worshipped animals; that's the gist of it.

>>732117

>how do you respond to this?

Why would you repent later, and not now? God is the source of all good things, and reconciliation to Him is therefore the best thing that can happen.

It can only mean that he does not intent to repent, but invoke the recursive perpetual "tomorrow". One day, however, he will die, and tomorrow will not come.

>>732273

I don't understand the theory. I thought angels had free will like us? This seems to imply they don't

>>732119

Yeah, we take risk every time we leave our bed and every time we're asleep.