/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>731925

I find it … odd.

I always find it funny that the first Charismatics made a following when they convinced people they were miraculously speaking Chinese, yet once they visited China, no one understood them.

It's pentecostalism with a Catholic veneer. Lots of people babbling nonsense and having cathartic emotional experiences by acting weird. It's all copied from hysterical protestant sects. Avoid.

>>732500

Tell them that the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit. There are many spirits and not all of them are good. For me, the most interesting aspect pointed out in that book is the charateristic of technique. They aren't receiving the Holy Spirit as a gift, they are performing a definite technique that even an unbaptized nonchristian could perform and achieve the same experiences as them.

>>732500

I'll also add that the language used heavily implies that you are without the Holy Spirit unless you go through the laying of hands. To which there was much backtracking, saying "this is not a baptism, everyone already has the spirit, this does not in any way change the importance of holy communion." It was strange that I had to get them to admit this. Why was this not said originally? A few people there who I spoke with about it said they too were weary of accepting it at first. So why do they do it? They reasoned with me it's allowed by the Vatican. Who am I to question.

>>731933

>I always find it funny that the first Charismatics made a following when they convinced people they were miraculously speaking Chinese, yet once they visited China, no one understood them.

I met a guy who said he spoke in the tongue of infants. /facepalm

But that does not negate some experiences: The moment I accepted Christ - after finishing the first time I read the Gospel of Matthew - I went to do my chores and felt exhilarated.. and suddenly all kinds of holy words flowed through me and I almost dropped to my knees. It was overwhelming. I couldn't quite phrase things, but it kept gushing out. This, I believe, was baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Later on, I read St. Teresa of Avila (and some other saints) talk about jubilation, which sounded like the same thing. Where we are really on fire with God's love and have an uncontrollable praise.

"Many words are spoken during this state, in praise of God, but, unless the Lord himself puts order to them, they have no orderly form. The understanding, at any rate, counts for nothing here; the soul would like to shout praises aloud… [The soul] utters a thousand holy follies, striving ever to please him who thus possesses it." - St. Teresa

So I think some charismatics might have experienced something similar. Just not the people clucking like chickens.

>>731925

What does harm exactly mean in your sentence? I think their movement promotes wrong teachings, but I find no "harm" with people believing what they perceive to be true, whether it's right or wrong is another matter, as long as it doesn't cause practical harm to others. However those with an intellect has a responsibility to seek a deeper truth.

>>732539

Harm as in spiritual harm. Does it strengthen or weaken their overall connection and devotion to the Lord?

I think there are counterfeits.. whether they are truly diabolical or not, I don't know. Sometimes I think they're just all-too-human and con-men. Either way, both of these would cause great harm.

But like I said, Christianity is not merely an intellectual or spiritless religion either.

More saint quotes (like Teresa's above):

For singers, either in the harvest, or in the vineyard, or in any other busy work, after they have begun in the words of their hymns to exult and rejoice, being as it were filled with so great joy, that they cannot express it in words, then turn from actual words, and proceed to sounds of jubilation. The jubilee is a sound signifying that the heart laboureth with that which it cannot utter…that the heart may rejoice without words, and the boundless extent of joy may have no limits of syllables. (Augustine of Hippo, c.354-c.430)

For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to this present time. (Justin Martyr, c.150)

Now, it is possible to see amongst us women and men who possess gifts of the Spirit of God. (Justin Martyr, c.150)

In like manner we do also hear many brethren in the Church, who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men, and declare the mysteries of God. (Irenaeus, c.180)

>>732541

I don't think the strength of faith and devotion always has something to do with your knowledge of God, since we're all born with God's image in mind, but wrong religions mislead your knowledge and expectation of who He is and what He wants from you.

It's garbage that evolved into hyper garbage after the death of JPII and will forever (sadly) tarnish his name tbh.

Just ignore them. At best theyre kinda cool and bring in some teenagers. At worst theyre emotionally harmful (Ive seen them do some really weird stuff)

>>731925

They invite demons to give them "gifts". Stay away. Listen to what Fr Ripperger has to say about them. Huge amount of demonic possession cases just because of the " charismatic" movement

>>731925

Most people seemed to be larping about "gifts" while few of them had those gifts.

I attended few lectures, mostly boring pozzed stuff.

They have very little to do with catholicism even though those ones I researched claimed to be catholic. If you do not want to be damaged spiritually I suggest you stick to the church and ignore those "charismatics". Most of them are outright heretics or people deluded by their pride to think they received "gifts" while all they're really doing is larping.

>Muh tongues it is written in Bible so larp about it till you make it

>>732613

>They invite demons to give them "gifts". Stay away. Listen to what Fr Ripperger has to say about them. Huge amount of demonic possession cases just because of the " charismatic" movement

Very interesting. I wonder if he knows about the Kundalini stuff. Some of these charismatics resemble Indian behaviors surrounding it (especially the trembling), so I do think there is evil involved sometimes. Other times, I think it's just a con.

But I'm also the guy above who talked about jubilation. I've experienced this. And I'm not a charismatic. And before that, an old nun at a school I attended told me God would intervene in my life (in a very direct way), and it happened. I don't want to elaborate, but I was a hopeless in sin at this point, and she prophesied in a very specific way that turned my life around.. so I do think people still have this gift as well (just not as many as claimed. I certainly don't have it).

> Is it catholic pentacostalism or is it completely harmless?

It will just turn you into a pentecostal in 10 years.

Its borderless heresy so it will inevitable drive you there.

We only have that to secure people in South America, but inevitably they will join their local pentecostal/evangelical demonination.

Also even if you go to one, you still need to go to normal mass, since they don't do mass in those meetings.

>>732717

>borderline heresy

Fixed

>>731925

>(((✝)))