f12cc5 No.715499
This is wonderful, are there more like this?
eaab0c No.715502
2afbac No.715507
Why do they never hold in one place for atleast 1 minute or more?
2afbac No.715508
>>715507
are they scared that it will burn?
31cf85 No.715525
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>715508
The fire doesn't burn the faithful
f66440 No.715529
>>715525
I want to believe, but I can do that with a regular flame. If you move it around quickly like that, it doesn't burn.
31cf85 No.715531
>>715529
>but I can do that with a regular flame
No you can't, give it a try. There's no way you can stick your face in it like that waving it around or not. It didn't even singe his beard. The Holy Fire is legit.
f66440 No.715543
>>715531
You can though. But I do want the Holy Fire to be legitimate, I just wish they'd film the inside of the tomb already.
31cf85 No.715544
>>715543
>I just wish they'd film the inside of the tomb already.
That's testing God. If God wanted to give you undeniable proof of his existence, he would. It's not for us to try and force that undeniable physical evidence, it's for us to trust in the Lord and have faith in his plan
f66440 No.715545
>>715544
Checked, and I hadn't thought of that.
cdacfc No.715552
The holy fire is not a miracle, because it contradicts our understanding of salvation. Bear with me:
God gives us free will so that we can choose to believe Him. He doesn't manifest Himself to us because that would interfere with our free will. If we had conclusive proof that He did exist, we would be making a free choice to accept him.
A repetitive "miracle" that proves the legitimacy of a specific church or religion directly contradicts that free choice, as it gives ample evidence to accept God based on that evidence rather than a free choice.
01012d No.715560
>>715552
>our understanding of salvation
>our
Who are "we", exactly? The Catholic Church teaches that God's existence can be known with certainty using human reason alone, and anathematizes fideism.
a2627b No.715562
>>715552
Are you the guy who made the thread "An Atheist prove holy fire is not real with christian doctrine" ? lol
How are miracles bad? Our Lord himself perfomed many miracles, and the people believed. Whatever brings people to God. Do not atheists/non-believers ask for evidence for God's existence?
12c5f0 No.715563
>>715560
That God exists can be known by pre reason is affirmed. This does not extend to the truths revealed in the scriptures or the dogmas of the faith, in this the church teaches that supernatural Faith is required. This is not a faith against reason, or without evidence, however. Look to Abraham, Moses, Mary, or the Apostles for models of Faith.
822b29 No.715576
>>715552
But it actually is a miracle and you're still using your free will to deny it. Just as you can use your free will to deny the truth of any miracle, just as the pharisees did regarding the miracles Jesus did in front of them!
060e59 No.715578
>>715552
>proves the legitimacy of a specific church or religion
I can only imagine why you think this is a bad thing.
4f2419 No.715584
>>715552
>He doesn't manifest Himself to us because that would interfere with our free will.
Really?
1f2740 No.715605
>>715544
What do you mean lol?
Read Romans 1. God is self-evident to everyone already.
44c438 No.715617
>>715543
>You can though
do it, and film yourself
44c438 No.715619
>>715552
>He doesn't manifest Himself
So, there's this book called "the Bible". You should try reading it.
518607 No.715620
>>715543
>I just wish they'd film the inside of the tomb already.
This is unnecessary because very often the Holy Fire appears outside the tomb. And you know what? Nobody has ever been able to capture this on camera. People can see the appearance of the fire, but at the moment this happens the cameras always happen to be pointed at other directions. See this:
http://www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/holylight.htm
405a09 No.715623
If the fire doesn't burn, why doesn't he hold it still and remove all doubt?
0a6c2c No.715627
>>715623
How about you put your arm over a fire and move it like he does and report back on how well your forearm got cooked. Or put a match to your beard for even a second and let us know how that goes.
bbb1e0 No.715629
>>715623
He says that it burns, the fire produces heat but it doesn't burn his skin.
Fun fact: the Israeli police search the patriarch and the tomb before he enters it, they just can't explain it.
cd521c No.715632
>>715552
>If we had conclusive proof that He did exist, we would be making a free choice to accept him.
That is wrong because a miracle can hit you in the face and you can still refuse to believe.
In the Old Testament, the Paraoh was hit by multiple miracles yet he refused to bow(Granted, Iron Heart, so this one might not count)
Goliath's defeat by a slingshot converted… hm?
Samson destroying temple after temple did nothing
Also Jesus Christ is shown healing people after people and he even says this:
John 12:37 Although Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still did not believe in Him.
tl;dr Your theology is wrong, stop presenting it as factual.
cd521c No.715633
>>715632
>Check the thread after making this post
>Everyone's going against this guy
I've heard this guy so much that I expected he would just be ignored by now. Nevermind, then.
44c438 No.715653
>>715629
>Fun fact: the Israeli police search the patriarch and the tomb before he enters it, they just can't explain it.
not doubting you, but im gonna need a citation on that
09f8e8 No.715662
>>715552
Or alternatively:
>the fire occurs consistently as undeniable proofing because the tomb is located in an atheistic/satanic country
>literally still trying to call those who rejected him home
42f952 No.715663
44c438 No.715666
>>715663
no offense, but that does not look like a credible source
44c438 No.715667
>>715666
>666
lord have mercy on me a sinner!
42f952 No.715672
>>715666
C'mon dude, here's the website of the patriarchate
Unless the Orthodox patriarch is jewing everybody (catholics, copts, muslims, jews) for 1200 years, the miracle is legit
http://en.jerusalem-patriarchate.info/the-holy-sepulcher-and-the-all-holy-church-of-the-resurrection/the-holy-light/
a3a850 No.715678
>>715672
I wasn't doubting the miracle, I was doubting that the Israelis do an inspection every year. It just sounds kind of wieird. Why would they care?
42f952 No.715682
>>715678
Idk, the Ottomans also supervised and attended the ceremony before, and the crusaders before them
I guess you don't let someone claiming a miracle like that in your land to go unchecked.
cdacfc No.715709
>>715662
>>715619
That's assuming that salvation existed for the Israelites before Christ.
>>715584
>comparing the conversion of Paul the apostle to le epin fire tricks xD
Basing your faith on a "miracle" and not on Christ is exactly why God doesn't give us repetative miracles as proof. Miracles are always given as private revelation to those who already have faith.
cd521c No.715718
>>715709
>That's assuming that salvation existed for the Israelites before Christ.
It didn't, but people in Abraham's Bosom went to heaven after Jesus Christ died on the cross.
Besides this relates nothing to >>715552 , where the problem is free will, not salvation.
08c212 No.715722
>>715709
>>715718
Excuse me?
<To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
4f2419 No.715723
>>715709
>Basing your faith on a "miracle" and not on Christ is exactly why God doesn't give us repetative miracles as proof
Why are you assuming that I came to Christ based on a miracle? I came to Christ long before I even knew of the Holy Fire.
>Miracles are always given as private revelation to those who already have faith.
St Paul didn't have faith. He literally went around helping to kill those who professed that Christ is God. Are you implying that Jews who deny Christ are of the same faith of those who affirm that Christ is God?
5e47ef No.715725
Does anyone has the icon, Of the Pillar that caught fire? Lost it during a re installation of my Os. Pretty cool story when i was reading about it. Btw. More than likely, this isn't going to convince the super skeptic, they already have a worldview to explain away all the evidence. The problem was never that there wasn't enough evidence. But some far more troublesome. I'm silently Referring to the Fall. Which is a talk for another time.
8dc841 No.715737
>>715725
Also this book contains testimonies about the miracle by catholics, muslims, persians and others.
http://www.skarlakidis.gr/en/books/2012-07-12-06-57-11/18--1579-.html
efc1f9 No.716311
>>715496
*cough cough* Zoroastrian influence *cough*
33266a No.716322
>>716311
You know fire existed before the Zoroastrians, right? And you know nearly all faiths have involved fire in their rituals, right?
ad7a89 No.716591
>>715552
The Bible does not support a word that you just said.
b9dd7b No.716593
>>716311
Yes. Must be that. God is never compared to a fire or performs any miracles that use fire in the Bible…
a28061 No.716628
>>716593
>implying he has read the Bible
He probably learned all he knows about Christianity through memes
77c745 No.716629
but does the EO church stand by this miracle? would they allow whomever the priest is to wear a go-pro headset camera as he gets the miracle flame?
if you're gonna bet the entire kit-n-kaboodle on this, might as well go all the way
343241 No.720064
>>715496
you can do this with a regular candle lol, its a fuel that doesn't burn very hot