/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Can you give a translation? Otherwise I predict this thread won't go very far.

>>713219

Here's my stab at a translation without knowing the context. The beginning of the first sentence not pictured is, "Ad Thessalos comminationis et correptionis…" I didn't try to translate the last sentence because I couldn't make out all of the words, but it looks like the author is asserting they were being civil in their letter.

>We have sent enough letters of warning and rebuke to the Thessalonians. To the synod (which is said to have been convened illicitly) concerning our brother and fellow bishop Perigen, whose office we wrote cannot be disturbed for any reason, we wrote these instructions, by which words all the brethren should understand that, first of all, they oughr by no means to convene themselves before your knowledge of it. Second, that our judgment cannot be retracted. For never has it been allowed of that which has been decided by the Apostolic See to be debated again?

So is Pope Francis the pope?

He wouldn't be alone. Popes have been claiming that their pastoral judgment is supreme since the 3rd century (see the whole debacle between Cyprian of Carthage (and Firmilian) and Pope Stephen), and that their doctrinal judgment is supreme, that the Church of Rome cannot fall into heresy, that they are Peter mystically acting in the present, and that every bishop derives his episcopacy from the Pope and every church should conform to the practices of Rome as a result, since Pope Leo the Great in the 5th century.

That doesn't mean it's how other churches saw it as well.

>>713236

Yes. Anything else is private interpretation and judgment.

>>713211

Are we talking about the Saint Boniface who died in 754? Why should we taking him for an authority in these matters?

>>713211

>Boniface

>8th-9th century

>700 years after apostles

Somehow this represents the apostolic position.

>>713252

its a pre-schism and reformation position though

>>713262

The schism didn't happen overnight, the tension was developing for a while.

>>713211

Around the year 800 AD, the ideas the west and east had about Papal primacy already were divergent. After the schism both sides then exxagerated it making the division even stronger.

>>713211

<no scriptural backing of this

<Bonnie isn't an apostle

<the very concept of "king bishop" didnt really surface till about 340-350ad, and still wasn't implemented till later that century

My response? The illiteracy and cherry picking by RCC types needs to stop

>>713251

No, this is Pope St Boniface I (420~)

>>713211

>St Boniface I here clearly preaches papal primacy.

No, because at that time Thessalonika was part of the Patriarchate of Rome.

For many centuries Thessalonika has been the center of jurisdictional dispute between Rome and Constantinople. Only in 732 Emperor Leo decided definitely that Thessalonika will be under Constantinople.

The fact that such dispute existed for so long time (during which there have been several Ecumenical councils) means that the papal supremacy is a very late invention of Rome.

>>713306

>350 years seperate from first apostles

>>713377

less seperate than luther ;)

>>713445

It's better to rely on scripture than to rely on any fallible men, correct?

>>713468

Stop this meme. You're all also fallible, which means your interpretations of the Bible are fallible. That's why you people spawned 1 gazzilion interpretations, something that Christ surely wanted, his faithful not being able to agree on basic principles of salvation because each sect interprets the Bible in its own way.

The Catholic Encyclopedia has an article on Pope Boniface, that would at least help establish some of the basic facts before throwing out false assertions, such as that this is from the 9th century. This is Pope St. Boniface I, who is from the time of St. Augustine.

>Elected 28 December, 418; d. at Rome, 4 September, 422. Little is known of his life antecedent to his election. The "Liber Pontificalis" calls him a Roman, and the son of the presbyter Jocundus. He is believed to have been ordained by Pope Damasus I (366-384) and to have served as representative of Innocent I at Constantinople (c. 405).

And the part relevant to OP's quotation.

>In the East he zealously maintained his jurisdiction over the ecclesiastical provinces of Illyricurn, of which the Patriarch of Constantinople was trying to secure control on account of their becoming a part of the Eastern empire. The Bishop of Thessalonica had been constituted papal vicar in this territory, exercising jurisdiction over the metropolitansand bishops. By letters to Rufus, the contemporary incumbent of the see, Boniface watched closely over the interests of the Illyrian church and insisted on obedience to Rome. In 421 dissatisfaction expressed by certain malcontents among the bishops, on account of the pope's refusal to confirm the election of Perigines as Bishop of Corinth unless the candidate was recognized by Rufus, served as a pretext for the young emperor Theodosius II to grant the ecclesiastical dominion of Illyricurn to the Patriarch of Constantinople (14 July, 421). Boniface remonstrated with Honorius against the violation of the rights of his see, and prevailed upon him to urge Theodosius to rescind his enactment. The law was not enforced, but it remained in the Theodosian (439) and Justinian (534) codes and caused much trouble for succeeding popes. By a letter of 11 March, 422, Boniface forbade the consecration in Illyricum of any bishop whom Rufus would not recognize.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02658a.htm

>>713472

He that hath the son hath everlasting life.

God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him shall not perish but shall have everlasting life.

Want to know what's a meme? That the Bible is hard to understand.

>>713517

>Want to know what's a meme? That the Bible is hard to understand.

If this was true, there would not be as many heretical groups as there are/have been.

>>713512

>>713329

Thank you, anons.

Tl;dr:

>Rome and Constantinople had a centuries long fight over turf

Such was life in the undivided Church.

>>713634

Have you considered the possibility they just hadn’t read it?