/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

So mortal sin has three parts. Grave matter (the event itself), A willful act, an ability to avoid.

So the church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15), sees that communion is essential to maintain a state of grace. Since entrance to heaven requires friendship with God and being in a state of grace (CCC 1027 & 1030). She also has the power to retain sins (John 20:22). So when you join the Catholic church, you will confess before God and the alter that you believe all things taught by the church. The church has retained this sin for the good of the unity of faith.

Not attending mass is therefore grave matter.

If you are not able to attend because of travel or events beyond your control, it is still grave matter and should be confessed, but it is not a mortal sin.

If you have the ability but are passed out from heavy labor and miss Mass, again, you have grave matter, ability to attend but you did not have the willful capacity to miss. Still needs confession but not a mortal sin.

However, if you refuse to attend when you are able, that is mortal sin. You are refusing the church, God's people, and scripture itself. This sin leads towards spiritual death, which is the mortal part of the sin.

>communion is essential to maintain a state of grace

How is this derived from 1 Tim 3 ? Not seeing the leap…

Ephesians chapter 1 explains how grace is a gift with no prerequisite.

English: (I will remove the modifying phrase to help you understand)… "So the church sees that communion is essential to maintain a state of grace."

I agree about Eph 1 that grace is a gift. I don't deserve to receive all the graces of Jesus in the host which is the body of Jesus, but I do. It is not of my work, but the work of Christ.

If I choose to not receive the grace of God, God does not force his love on me. Love cannot be a forced action if it is love.

The χάρις (charis) aka grace is a gift of God, not of works.

Basically, sin is sin in God's eyes. Yes for humans, murder is worse than missing Sunday service, but to God all mortal sin causes the same effect, severing your relationship with Him.

Think of it this way (and this is off the top of my head so it's gonna be a goofy metaphor). You have a boat tied to a jetty. If you cut the rope with a small knife or an axe is irrelevent, cutting the rope causes the boat to drift away from you. Yes you can say that the axe does more damage to people, but the effect it has on the boat is the exact same as the small knife

>>712554

You misread. He said the Church (which is the foundation and pillar of Truth, a quote from 1 Tim 3:15) sees that communion….

> Basically, sin is sin in God's eyes.

1 John 5:16,17 disagrees with that statement.

>>712565

Sin that leads unto death is sin that leads US unto death. Not every sin isolates us from God to the same degree. It doesn't mean that God dislikes some sins less than He dislikes others.

>>712549

You are mistaken. The matter of sin is not the objective act but the "human act", i.e. the objective act together with the conscious choice to perform it.

Missing Mass for a legitimate reason or on accident is not a sin at all, it is not "grave matter", and it does not need to be confessed.

>>712565

Well I'm talking about mortal sin specifically, in the case of either murder or not fullfilling the Sunday obligation. You are right though, there is venial sin (as well as original sin).

I think OP was more talking about why two mortal sins are considered the same, rather than why missing church is a mortal sin and not venial

>>712583

>why two mortal sins are considered the same, rather than why missing church is a mortal sin and not venial

I would say both. A usual and effective line against prot zealots is “so you’re saying there were no real Christians for 1000/1400/etc years?” I would ask something similara here. Something like this teaches that a ton of generally faithful people either got sent to hell because of this sin or spent large parts of their life not in a state of grace. Do you have to know and fully understand how something is a mortal sin for it to be “full consent”?

>>712671

>Something like this teaches that a ton of generally faithful people either got sent to hell because of this sin or spent large parts of their life not in a state of grace

Does this teaching deny or work in detriment to the gratuity of grace? If not, I don't see why the "generally" faithful wouldn't have avoided hell. About the second point, I do think that such people wouldn't be living in a full state of grace i.e. as piously as they can be, if there is such a thing.

>>712576

There are things God hates.

Proverbs 6:16-19

There are six things which Jehovah hateth;

Yea, seven which are an abomination [a]unto him:

Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,

And hands that shed innocent blood;

A heart that deviseth wicked purposes,

Feet that are swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that [b]uttereth lies,

And he that [c]soweth discord among brethren.

However, God loves mercy, because He loves us more than life itself.

Hosea 6:6

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

>>712578

CCC 1858

Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother." The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

>>712671

>why missing church is a mortal sin and not venial

Missing Mass is grave matter, because the Church has witnessed and declared it as such. Since she is the pillar and foundation of truth, we are obliged to obey. Not out of obligation, but out of love for our fellow human beings.

>>712685

Hell is not the punishment for sin. The choice of sin is a choice away from God. If I sin and do not repent, I am stating I do not love God more than the sin. I wish to be excluded from God and the blessed.

CCC 1033 This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

God is love, and love does not force itself upon others. That would be rape. If a human being cannot love God because they cling to a sin, God will give that person what they desire.

>>712685

>Do you have to know and fully understand how something is a mortal sin for it to be “full consent”?

You must have knowledge that it is grave matter. Now that you read this here, you may not believe, but you know. The question of fully understanding DOES play a part. If I have a mental disablement that prevents me from processing what I have been taught, I don't have full understanding. Good point to review as I didn't cover this.

>>712685

>Does this teaching deny or work in detriment to the gratuity of grace?

Gratitude is an act of love. If I love God with my whole heart and mind, and I live in a repentant life moment by moment, I will naturally express gratitude for the work of God's mercy through His Son, Jesus.

>wouldn't be living in a full state of grace

Exactly correct. It is not required for us to be in a full state of grace but to be in A state of grace.

St. Joan of Arc - "If I am in grace, may God keep me there. If I am not in grace, my God bring me there."

>>712543

It's not on the same level. Murder and fornication are worse and you receive more temporal punishment for, murder is a sin that cries to the heaven for vengeance. But to neglect your Sunday obligation is still a grave matter, which then becomes mortal if done knowingly.

Still though, the Sunday obligation is hardly a burden too hard to bear so don't let it be a stumbling block to your salvation.

>>712695

Cool.

That doesn't argue at all against what I said, but cool.