/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Well, we got both of sets of items. It's not so much that it went wrong, just that it's a double edged sword if wielded by people who are unworthy. Usually problems arise when ethical constraints are removed, which is chiefly done through a lack of supernatural faith and fear.

Also, we've had porn and condoms (and drugs) since ancient times. Technology only made those vices easier to access. The A-Bomb is new-ish though.

The Garden of Eden.

It's a symptom of a fallen world. Humans have the power to use things for good or evil. We can't escape that freedom and power. It might sound obvious, but it needs to be restated on occasion, because it's an all encompassing truth in this world.

This always makes me think of Alfred Nobel, not once in his time inventing dynamite did the thought cross his mind that his invention could be used as a weapon. The only thing he was thinking of is its useful mining applications.

Inversely, nuclear fission's first application was a weapon of mass destruction. However, that same power was revisited and now is used to supply millions of people with electricity every day.

>>709087

Technology is a mentally-internalized concept at best and is more usually expressed through functions that are not self-animate and possess no will or soul. Without imago dei technology cannot have any more moral agency than a pebble you find on the ground, thus returning the setting to a value neutral preference.

>>709166

3/4 of that character's other messages are demonizing most of the tech tree.

>>709087

>here is the great wall of internet of text that may or may not say anything about the subject

Disgusting.

>>709176

I read slow. Took me 20 years just to get passed Leviticus.

>>709176

That is a silly thought, accidents don't have to be wrong.

>>709176

The "Clockwork Universe" is an old Classical metaphor, from what I gather

>>709273

It’s not that accidents are wrong, it’s that they’re unpredictable, and it’s hard to believe that.

>>709315

>Also, The faith is inherently transhumanist

You're gonna have to back this up with some scripture my friend.

>>709169

The tech tree isn't the problem, the main issue is that some of Miriam's competitors like the Procktor use their discoveries on Planet to engage in abomination.

Poor old Sister. The other main officers consist of a communist, a human experimenter, a liberal and a pagan hippie. The only other one who has any vague sense thinks using children as human shields is a fundamentally good idea. That's not even talking about Morgan or the other expansion leaders.

>>709315

>spoiler

Vade retro Satana

>>709350

1)

So TBL is making Urbit?

2)

>Amazon

no.

3)

doubt

>>709377

death of the old and replacement with new heart and mind sounds pretty transhumanist to me.

>>709562

hiss!! >:3 no uwu

lol I jest.

>>708983

jews

>>709701

No, I'm not talking about BCI SSC/LW Kurzweil shit.

And stop being so "woo woo" about a caricatured value-positive technology. This whole image doesn't make any sense.

>>709701

Where sorcerers do actually try to break reality up and put it back together how they want, technologists have rules to play by. Like the speed of causality, the measurement problem, or much to the chagrin of techno-singulitarians, the Bekenstein bound and its related friends regarding quantum bounds on information velocity, density, and computing processes.

>>709712

Yet the same spirit against reality animates both their projects, the latter simply having found a more profitable technique.

>>708983

Even the automobile was a catastrophe in light of its effects upon local communities and extended families. winnie the pooh all of it. We need a hard reset.

Technology is a useful tool. No more, no less. Unfortunately it seems like the faster technological progress advances the more humanities flaws are exposed. We're fundamentally a selfish and short sighted kind of being and when we wield technology that has the capacity to change the entire Earth we struggle to place our short term desires behind the long term consequences of them. Once again the Bible is right about the true nature of humanity and the consequences of pursuing a life of luxury and pleasure over doing the right thing.

It's unfortunate most people worried about global warming can't seem to make the connection between us literally driving the Earth to almost uninhabitable conditions and the brainless "Me want consumer products and eat more meat NOW" attitude of people who cannot and will not ignore their fleshly desires even if it means saving the world. Telling people it's noble and good to act like animals and follow their instincts was the worst mistake we ever made and we unleashed a monster we cannot control even when rationally we know this awful consumerist civilization is completely unsustainable.

>>709739

The core of what I'm hearing is that "Humans projecting action into the outside world is bad."

Is this "Alchemical Spirit" in any of the encyclicals, catechism, or so on?

>>709739

Yes, some details of my indictment are perhaps not immediately apparent. Only one example need be considered though in order to convey it.

Let us consider the technology of birth control, the essence of which is to hinder the reproductive purpose inherent to all human sexuality. Here the technologist conjures through a series of spells a piece of machinery meant to force any human will, if maybe not his, on a design of God's he in some respects finds wanting, the fundamental complaint here being that this is not something within his prerogative to alter, thus the charge of sorcery.

The glassblowers do no wrong, on the other hand, because it's perfectly natural for man to drink, and if some technology could be used in aid of this natural end than so much the better. It's only when the technology is used against the natures, human or otherwise, found in reality that it then becomes an evil.

>>709740

It's a simple matter of checking a fact or two to show that technology arouse from the hermeticism of the Renaissance, hence phenomenon like the philosopher's stone.

We have the power to talk to anyone at any time on earth, yet we have never been so alone in our daily lives

We have the power to travel in a very short time in any time on earth, yet it has never been so difficult for nomad people to roam the earth freely

We have the power to heal any disease yet people have never been so weak both in body and mind

We have the power to learn anything yet we have never been so ignorant (of what really matters)

Just a couple of little ironies that are part of the satanic world we live in.

Also the anon comparing magic and technology isn't wrong.

>>709745

Technology isn't the problem though, it's the inherent nature of man. The idea that man isn't fundamentally flawed and can make the correct decisions in the absence of God is the ideology that led to our current state. In reality we're blind and need the guidance of God, without it we simply fall prey to the desire for immediate gratification, to avoid anything that infringes on our pleasure but ultimately is required for a healthy, functioning society.

>The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

>>709744

But that does not poison the whole batch. The "birth control" is evil obviously (Paragraph 2370, CCC), but that is inherent to what the aim and product is of that. It wouldn't apply to say, defibrilators or SharkSkin (a nanotechnology that reduces the need for antibiotics in hospitals).

>Here the technologist conjures through a series of spells a piece of machinery meant to force any human will

But it's not the technology or the technologist, its the intensions that apprehend him. The same parchment could be used to write a scroll of the Law, OR it could be used as part of a sorcery ritual. What matters is what the person writes and what he thinks.

>natural end

So teleologicaly what is the verdict on things like genetically modified organism foods to improve nutrition (golden rice to combat vitamin A deficiency)? Is that teleologicaly inadvisable? Or gene therapy for diseases (i.e. haemophilia, huntington's disease, cystic fibrosis, and to a lesser extent, various neurodegenerative diseases and cancers)?

I'm not speaking as to whether they are practical, because GMO food is can interrupt natural ecosystems (but maybe solved with careful engineering?) and genetic modification of humans is probably impossible to crack with alternative splicing of tRNAs, the unpredictability of peptide conformation, and the fine balance of systemic feedback loops, but if it was technologically feasible, whether it is permissible canonically?

>it's a simple matter of checking a fact or two to show that technology arouse from the hermeticism of the Renaissance

very big doubt. you could make some kind of argument saying that hermiticism influenced people who produced the industrial revolution and the liberalism thereof and that sort of went outward… but 1) that sounds verily like a genetic fallacy. Like do we through out scholasticism because aquinas cited greeks?

2) i can't seemed to find anything about "technology emerged from hermiticism"

3) it seems like a very suspect /pol/-tier stretch. like a meme magic thread. loosey-goosey guilty by association

>>709745

marshall mcluhan showed us how certain media technology has power to alienate us.

For all of those things, it is because will has died

>>709748

I think we're probably in some agreement that technology isn't evil full stop, but can easily be perverted, depending on the human will behind its realization. The cases you mention, at the very least, show how imperative wisdom is to such phenomena. It is here where we probably part ways, because I'm of the mind that we are simply not wise enough for these things, and would in fact be completely for a ban on most technologies. But yes, in the abstract I do agree with you.

>1) that sounds verily like a genetic fallacy.

Strictly speaking, it's not such a fallacy, because I'm not saying technology is inherently wrong because of its association to magic, but rather the pursuit of technology in spite of our real final end of being with God is, where what is evil about both groups, the earlier magicians and the technologists, is their transfixion on the material world and on worldly concerns. This is not at all a controversial statement.

>>709744

>Here the technologist conjures through a series of spells a piece of machinery meant to force any human will, if maybe not his, on a design of God's he in some respects finds wanting, the fundamental complaint here being that this is not something within his prerogative to alter, thus the charge of sorcery.

By that logic, so is booze, and other endorphine generating items.

But we don't consider a society that knows and permits how to make alcohol fundamentally evil.

The problem is the one who buys a lot of booze, and the culture that encourages getting wasted.

Just as dating apps aren't the problem, as a principle, but commodification of romance and casual hook-up culture.

>>708983

But…I'm allergic to penicillin.

>>709315

>pick up some Raymond or Stallman

Alright, let's read some Stallman:

https://stallman.org/rms-lifestyle.html

<I am an Atheist, for scientific reasons. The religious theory of the natural world ("It's this way because a god decided to make it this way") does not explain anything, it only replaces one question with another. That means it is so bad that "valid" and "invalid" don't even apply.

<I also reject the idea that a god's opinions would provide us with a moral compass. A god that would allow so much suffering to occur — most of it not the result of anyone's free will — is clearly no guide to what anyone should do. It would be entitled to its opinion just like you or I, but its opinion would not be entitled to any special respect.

<Religion offers no moral short-cut. It is up to us to figure out what is right and what is wrong.

He might be good at Lisp and C++, but he sounds like a complete fvcking moron. How do we expect technologists to steer technologies properly when they write such moronic stuff?

>>709807

What about it do you consider moronic?

>>709808

<muh science

<le ebil god

<muh relativism

>>709796

I don't know why people would drink for fun. It lowers your IQ.

And dating apps are I think problematic. McLuhan was right. And it commoditises romance into transactionality.

>>709797

Good.

This is sort of a hot take, but penicillin will be viewed in a 100 years the same way we see trapening, lobotomies, and bloodletting.

Antibiotics are not a panacaea and to be this arrogant in the face of natural selection is asking for world-dead. Expect total antibiotic resistance all because doctors get paid for throwing antibiotics at problems. Also, we're rediscovering that microorganisms are not necessarily bad. Just that things must be in their right place. Germ Theory's evolution.

>>709807

Stallman and Raymond are broken clocks (with Stallman being more broken). But that doesn't mean they aren't right sometimes. For me, these two are just a stepping stone away from modern technology, with the Austrians allowing you to do away with IP.

Also,

>good at Lisp and C++

>C++

hee hee

Technologists shouldn't steer anything because they are humans. Humans shouldn't steer anything.

>>709811

tbf, that's about 90% of people in modern west.

>>709906

I don't understand that image :(

am i a stupid

>>709744

So is Gerald Jay Sussman saying "Computer so called science actually has a lot in common with magic" real? Uh oh