Canonical angels and demons?

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Canonical angels and demons? Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 08:18:28 bad766 No.707669

Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Phanuel, Jerahmeel, Raguel, Sariel, these angels appear in many areas of Christian literature. Obviously the first two should be a no brainier since they appear in the NT and the accepted books of the OT, but what about the others who only appear in deuterocanon/apocrypha?

Also demons are Lucifer/Satan, Belial, Beelzebub, Azazel, Asmodeus, Semjaza. But aren't Belial and Beelzebub different names for Satan? As for the others, they all appear in deuterocanon/apocrypha with maybe the exception of Azazel who may or may not be what is being mentioned in Leviticus 16:8

So who are the canonical ones? Which ones actually exist and which ones are made up?

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 13:43:11 b1f1ed No.707732

It depends on what you mean on Canonical. The Book of Enoch (Enoch I, which is at least Canon for Ethiopian Christians and is quoted by Peter and Jude) names more Watchers/Fallen Angels who once were watchers/guardians of various nations, but sinned. And he calls their offspring the "bastard spirits".

The bastard spirits are Nephillim (and their secondary offpsring the Anakim and the Rephaim like those encountered by Joshua), They are the giants who terrorized the earth.

But if you go a step further, the Dead Sea Scrolls uses Enoch's own words "the bastard spirits" and uses it for demons. And it further says these demons are the spirits of these dead giants. In one Dead Sea Scrolls psalm, it states the demons are the “offspring of man and the seed of the holy ones.” Their disembodied spirits still live on as demons apparently.

But angels are still angels in nature, fallen or not.

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 13:46:53 01b1ee No.707734

>>707732

Sounds jewish.

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 13:52:04 b1f1ed No.707735

>>707734

Of course. It's only to the Jews that God revealed himself at first. They were the breakaway civilization that served the Most High, while the rest were still subject to the effects of these Fallen Angels. God set them aside for himself, until an allotted time that he would eventually redeem all of humanity through his Son. "Go preach the Good News to all nations." But this didn't happen until he came. It was distinctly Jewish before.

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 15:40:13 01b1ee No.707773

>>707735

The synagogue of satan isn't the OT religion. Their stance on angels is void.

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 15:46:08 b1f1ed No.707775

>>707773

This isn't the synagogue of Satan. This is pre-NT Judaism. Enoch's story originates in Genesis. The Nephillim are from Genesis. And as far as the Dead Sea Scrolls go in the few centuries before Christ, these were Jews who hated the Temple controllers and the Pharisees and would rather live in caves.

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 15:48:00 01b1ee No.707777

>>707775

Enoch isn't canon.

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 16:05:45 b1f1ed No.707779

>>707777

Enoch I is canon for Coptic Christians. Yet it's still QUOTED in the New Testament by Peter and Jude….which all Christians believe.

Jude 1:14-15 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

^ This is from I Enoch 2:1-2

Enoch himself and the story of the fallen angels and Nephillim is in Genesis 6. I'm merely expanding the context. I think ancient Jews from multiple eras know what demons are that anything some random teacher in the 21st century will tell you.

Take it or leave it, I guess. The demons don't care what you know about their nature.

Christanon 09/27/18 (Thu) 18:51:36 53680f No.707834

>>707779

To reiterate what I said in the last thread we had about the Book of Enoch, Paul quotes several Greek philosophers and poets; that doesn't make their writings canon either.

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 10:00:09 302d77 No.708086

>>707669

I recall reading somewhere that Azazel was also another name for Satan, I think it was something Enoch-related.

>>707834

It doesn't mean you chuck them into the bin, either. If apostles and early church fathers thought some source had merit, it doesn't hurt to study up on it. In this particular case, the source is a revelationary text, and there is no argument against it from those quarters. I'm going to take the word of people who knew Jesus and their immediate successors about what's important or not than some random on a Bohemian crochet website.

Also, if they thought Enoch (at least the first one) had merit, then they didn't seem to pile it under "synagogue of Satan" categories. Logically, either you're wrong about the text being evil to the faith, or the founding members of this religion messed up pretty early on. I'm inclined to think there was no error on the part of the older boffins.

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 10:39:44 4ca326 No.708096

>>707779

Do we know if the dead seas scrolls are entirely reliable?

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 10:45:28 4cd051 No.708098

Could we just not turn this post into Book of Enoch discussion #1,893?

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 12:24:05 4ca326 No.708114

>>708098

Well, if we're trying to determine canonical angels it's kind of hard not to discuses whether or not the book of Enoch is canon

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 12:52:26 ec3e27 No.708123

>>708114

Yeah but we could also discuss some other things, rather than making it solely the Book of Enoch.

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 18:57:46 c32219 No.708191

>>707779

>Enoch I is canon for Coptic Christians.

Ethiopians anon, Copts don't accept it as canon.

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 23:20:56 4ca326 No.708272

>>708123

Are there any other old texts that mention angels? I mean, I know their are plenty of named angels in traditions i.e. castiel - the angel of thursday. But none of those ones are credible

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 23:29:45 642e82 No.708276

>>708272

Thats Cassiel and its part of Jewish tradition, not Christian.

Christanon 09/28/18 (Fri) 23:31:25 b3579e No.708277

>Enoch

>Cassiel

Itt jewish nonsense.

Christanon 09/29/18 (Sat) 01:14:20 4ca326 No.708299

>>708276

>Thats Cassiel and its part of Jewish tradition, not Christian.

That's what I mean, there doesn't seem to be many texts that could be considered credible that mention angels

Enoch seems to be the only one that can be argued as being credible

Christanon 10/01/18 (Mon) 00:03:32 8af589 No.708954

>naming any angel besides the main 3 (Gabriel, Raphael, and Michael) mentioned in the canonical bible

[Worry intensifies]

how do you know thats not the name of a fallen angel?

Christanon 10/01/18 (Mon) 02:52:08 edd3e3 No.708998

File: f857d77e85a9fa1⋯.png (664.14 KB, 463x720, 463:720, Screen_Shot_2018-01-29_at_….png)

Jesus Himself and Revelation also heavily quote or parallel to Enoch, for example the sword coming out of the mouth of Christ in Revelation is a tie-in to Enoch.

Enoch 61

>2 The Lord of spirits sat upon the throne of his glory.

>3 And the spirit of righteousness was poured out over him.

>4 The word of his mouth shall destroy all the sinners and all the ungodly, who shall perish at his presence.

>Enoch 61:14 Then shall the Lord of spirits hasten to expel them from his presence. Their faces shall be full of confusion, and their faces shall darkness cover. The angels shall take them to punishment, that vengeance may be inflicted on those who have oppressed his children and his elect. And they shall become an example to the saints and to his elect. Through them shall these be made joyful; for the anger of the Lord of spirits shall rest upon them.

Enoch 61:15 Then the sword of the Lord of spirits shall be drunk with their blood; but the saints and elect shall be safe in that day; nor the face of the sinners and the ungodly shall they thenceforwards behold.

>16 The Lord of spirits shall remain over them:

>17 And with this Son of man shall they dwell, eat, lie down, and rise up, for ever and ever.

>18 The saints and the elect have arisen from the earth, have left off to depress their countenances, and have been clothed with the garment of life. That garment of life is with the Lord of spirits, in whose presence your garment shall not wax old, nor shall your glory diminish.

Also you obviously know hardly nothing about the Jews if you think they believe the Nephilim were literal giants. The Watchers and their names appear in some midrashim though interestingly enough NOT as antagonists, and even then that is by far the minority opinion as the vast major interpretation is the "sons of Seth" one, this even appears in Kabbalist works but those add that they were the sages of occult wisdom within their generation. Which is basically an inversion of Enoch.

Don't even begin to use the Jewish canon that prots also use, as they borrowed elements from deuterocanon including Enoch and took out the actual books. Raphael for example appears in every Jewish tradition BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TOBIT OR ANY OTHER BOOK WITH RAPHAEL. Asmodeus also appears in Talmudic legends too for example.

If you actually read Enoch it's the exact opposite of Jewishness.